Negative energy emanating from a toxic parent

katydid

Staff member
Interesting, retinoid. I, for one, do not believe in the negativity of karmic past lives astrology. We have enough to keep us busy understanding the here and now. If my mother had tried to cut my throat when I was 9 years old, I might find it hard to warm up to her, either.

THANK YOU. I was going to say essentially the same thing. If a mother assaults a 9 yr old with a knife, then one cannot expect that child to ever 'make Mom feel good' about herself in the future.
 

retinoid

Well-known member
THANK YOU. I was going to say essentially the same thing. If a mother assaults a 9 yr old with a knife, then one cannot expect that child to ever 'make Mom feel good' about herself in the future.

If we accept everything to be 100% fact and one sided as was presented then it is a no brainer-leave. Do not even ask about your mom if she is the incarnation of satan. But why does her father, siblings and therapist all not believe all these stories? I am just reading the chart. Something seems a little off. I was abused in my early life by my father and we had a strained relationship till my early 20s and there was a lot of negativity there. He wanted a better relationship and so did I and we were opened to it. In this case i do not think her mother nor daughter want to move on.
 

retinoid

Well-known member
Interesting, retinoid. I, for one, do not believe in the negativity of karmic past lives astrology. We have enough to keep us busy understanding the here and now. If my mother had tried to cut my throat when I was 9 years old, I might find it hard to warm up to her, either.

Many times people go to previous incarnations and find their husbands are people that raped and murdered them or vice versa in past lives or maybe they were mother/child. In terms of spirit what was said and what was done means very little as when you shed all these attachments you see they were like shedding costumes in a play. Obviously if someone is that bad to you here and now and everything she said was absolutely true and she has no part to play, then why even be around such horrible people?
 

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
If we accept everything to be 100% fact and one sided as was presented then it is a no brainer-leave. Do not even ask about your mom if she is the incarnation of satan. But why does her father, siblings and therapist all not believe all these stories? I am just reading the chart. Something seems a little off. I was abused in my early life by my father and we had a strained relationship till my early 20s and there was a lot of negativity there. He wanted a better relationship and so did I and we were opened to it. In this case i do not think her mother nor daughter want to move on.

The (college) therapist did not believe me because at the time, my father was making a lot of money and I was an international student there. Therefore, the therapist assumed I was the product of an overly priviledged environment. He claimed that because of the money I supposedly had, my story didn't add up.

Now, whether you want to believe me or not, I don't care. The therapist said those exact words: "Something seems a bit off". Why? Do you think for a split second I would waste hours and hours on a board telling a story to the tinest details to get attention from a bunch of strangers on an astrology website of all places?!

I have better things to do with my life than to make up an entire story or even sugar-coat or harshen the truth. Whether or not I'm to blame, that is to be discussed because I highly doubt any 4 year old deserves to be hit with high heels repeatedly.

I can't exactly say why my mother behaves this way with me and not with the others. I'm not in her head. My younger siblings and I have 13 year age difference, so maybe she eventually realized what she did to me was wrong. I have a brother and because he's a male, he gets away with pretty much anything.

I find it highly offensive that someone who is genuinely seeking help to break free from this pattern is being "accused" of lying. Don't you think that if I didn't want to move on, I wouldn't have asked for help?

I've been asking for help for ages and people doubt me because what they see is someone who dresses to the nines, so they don't believe my story. My story would probably be more believable if I was a trainwreck or a drug addict because that's the "stereotypical" products emanating from such backgrounds.

As for making her feel better ... I tried. I spent 1/3 of my scholarship and grant money each month to surprise her with gifts of all sorts because my father isn't an attentive man who buys her things. I tried to compensate by buying her plenty of things. I may not be the most affectionate person, but I surely showed her that I care.

I never ever in my life thought of really cutting her off until these past few days, mainly because I was away for so long that I thought the relationship would get a fresh start at some point. It didn't.

A lot of people are very much aware that certain Middle-Eastern families tend to be abusive towards their children. The stereotype is such as the father is usually the "abuser", but in my case, it is my mother.
 
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LostinPhilly

Well-known member
Many times people go to previous incarnations and find their husbands are people that raped and murdered them or vice versa in past lives or maybe they were mother/child. In terms of spirit what was said and what was done means very little as when you shed all these attachments you see they were like shedding costumes in a play. Obviously if someone is that bad to you here and now and everything she said was absolutely true and she has no part to play, then why even be around such horrible people?

Can you please give me one reason to justify my mother beating me with a broom, using a knife to cut m throat, pulling my face, pinching my face so I end up with scars, hitting me with heels ... when I'm simply a kid! I was a kid who was very introverted, was a straight-A student, was not causing any problems as I wasn't allowed to go out and therefore would spend time in my room either doing homework that wasn't request or writing/drawing.

Kids will be kids and nothing justifies such treatment. Now, if you don't believe me, it's your problem. I know my story and half the reason I haven't been able to fully heal and depart from the pain is because of people like. People I contact to ask for help and who end up doubting my story, pushing me back to square one all over again.

Believe me, if you had endured the same treatment and people were doubting your story, you'd have a hard time departing and moving on to. The key here is to heal, I can't possibly work on my issues if nobody is willing to believe me.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Many times people go to previous incarnations and find their husbands are people that raped and murdered them or vice versa in past lives or maybe they were mother/child. In terms of spirit what was said and what was done means very little as when you shed all these attachments you see they were like shedding costumes in a play. Obviously if someone is that bad to you here and now and everything she said was absolutely true and she has no part to play, then why even be around such horrible people?

An interesting belief, retinoid. But some of us do not believe in this heavy-duty doom-and-gloom version of karmic past-lives astrology. It looks like a huge "blame the child victim" guilt trip to me. Not very empowering. Especially when we're talking about child abuse.

I can't speak for LostinPhilly's particular culture, but in many Middle East/South Asian ethnic groups it is unusual for an unmarried adult daughter to move out of the parental home. These things are changing as more young women become educated and self-supporting.

And why should she lie on an Internet forum? Do you see anything in her chart suggesting an inveterate liar? I don't. Even if we assume just for a minute that only a portion of her facts are correct, this doesn't justify your putting a huge negative trip on LostinPhilly.
 
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retinoid

Well-known member
An interesting belief, retinoid. But some of us do not believe in this heavy-duty doom-and-gloom version of karmic past-lives astrology. It looks like a huge "blame the child victim" guilt trip to me. Not very empowering. Especially when we're talking about child abuse.

I can't speak for LostinPhilly's particular culture, but in many Middle East/South Asian ethnic groups it is unusual for an unmarried adult daughter to move out of the parental home. These things are changing as more young women become educated and self-supporting.

And why should she lie on an Internet forum? Do you see anything in her chart suggesting an inveterate liar? I don't. Even if we assume just for a minute that only a portion of her facts are correct, this doesn't justify your putting a huge negative trip on LostinPhilly.

I am not saying she is outright lying, I am saying I feel something is odd here. This does not mean I condone child abuse or blaming the victim. This is very much a problem in modern society with pc stuff and people blowing stuff out of proportion.
 

katydid

Staff member
The trend in our society is when someone says something that differs from how everyone feels everyone should feel then righteous indignation flows.

When I look at Mama's chart, I have no problem believing everything Philly described.

Venus, the chart ruler, is exactly conjunct Uranus, in the 10th, and in an applying square to Mars in the 8th, in Gemini. [Ebertin says " violent people with argumentative dispositions']

And that Uranus, which is wreaking havoc, is the ruler of the IC, and opposing it's natural position, and in it's fall.

Sun/Uranus/Venus, in Leo in the 10th, with heavy afflictions from Mars, and Neptune, tell a sad tale, in my opinion. Those are not very nurturing, sensitive, motherly aspects. I see autocratic, selfish, arbitrary impulses with flashes of sudden physical violence.

And it gets worse when you turn to the Moon for some kind of emotional backup or support. The Moon is exactly square Pluto in the 11th in Virgo. And it is opposed Mars from the 8th.

For Moon/Mars=Pluto, Ebertin says " A woman who stands alone in the world…one-sided outlook, fanaticism, moodiness, rashness, haste, extreme excitability.

I see no reason to believe that Philly is exxagerrating this woman's cruelty or abusiveness. If anything, she is probably downplaying it.
 

waybread

Well-known member
The trend in our society is when someone says something that differs from how everyone feels everyone should feel then righteous indignation flows.

No, this isn't about PC, retinoid: please don't use that as some sort of excuse. You posted some genuinely crummy stuff, and some of us called you on it.
 

retinoid

Well-known member
No, this isn't about PC, retinoid: please don't use that as some sort of excuse. You posted some genuinely crummy stuff, and some of us called you on it.

Waybread no need to exaggerate that questioning an internet posting is 'genuinely crummy'. But whatever.
 

Osamenor

Administrator
Staff member
Waybread no need to exaggerate that questioning an internet posting is 'genuinely crummy'. But whatever.

Questioning an internet posting wasn't the crummy thing you did. The crummy thing was suggesting that a victim of severe abuse that started by the time she was four years old is somehow at fault for her own abuse, in a thread started by the abuse victim, no less.

There are some things you should never, ever say to abuse survivors, online or in person or under any circumstances. That is one of them.
 

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
Hi LostinPhilly,

Unfortunately, children are often the tools some adults need to learn more about themselves and eventually grow up....

It looks like this was the case for your mother, but i hope this won't be a problem for you too...? Looking at your 5th house with Pluto, there is an opportunity for repetition of learned behaviour toward children.

So, i am glad you posted in the Spiritual Realm thread... You appear to already be aware of the problem, and are working on it.:smile:

Thank you very much, Inline!

To be honest, I made it a vow to myself not to ever have children. If I can't be a good parent and provide a healthy environment for a child, then I prefer to remain child-free than to hurt them in any way.

I'm rather self-aware, so unless I got through a thorough therapy to uncover the deep rooted issues my upbringing instilled in me, there is no way I will ever have children.

I've never really felt like a "family oriented" individual mainly because my parents never really gave me that feeling, so I would find it hard for me to create that feeling.

I am glad I moved out at 18. I was away for so long that I had blocked the memories. Now that I temporarily moved back in (soon to be out), I know what I need to work on.

Yesterday, I had a conversation with my dad who want to basically remove all social interactions from my younger sisters' lives. I tried to make him understand that this technique didn't work on me because I ended up with major personality voids and lack certain social skills very much needed to pursue any career or relationship. As was saying that their upbringing caused me to have a certain lack of skills, my mother jumped into the conversation and said: "Yes, her personality is incomplete". I'm not sure if she actually admitted to the damage done or if she wanted to add fuel to the fire to make me feel even more insecure. Either way, I'm really trying to help my father's mindset to broaden up a bit, so that my sisters have a more balanced upbringing with a fair amount of social interactions, unlike me. Their upbringing is way different but my father remains rather inflexible on certain matters (such as having friends).

I'm really trying to depart from the issues I had in the past to start a brand new life. My social skills are rather weak due to my insecurities and cold outer appearance, so have to work on those in priority. That said, a good therapist would be of great help, once I'm out of the house. I can't possibly go to therapy in a small town with few experts only to have my mother damage my progress repeatedly. I'll be moving out in February, I hope to really shift my personality and become the person I am meant to be, not the person I was once forced to become as a result of the emotional distress and physical pain.
 
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Marinka

Well-known member
If we accept everything to be 100% fact and one sided as was presented then it is a no brainer-leave. Do not even ask about your mom if she is the incarnation of satan. But why does her father, siblings and therapist all not believe all these stories? I am just reading the chart. Something seems a little off. I was abused in my early life by my father and we had a strained relationship till my early 20s and there was a lot of negativity there. He wanted a better relationship and so did I and we were opened to it. In this case i do not think her mother nor daughter want to move on.



The chart has Neptune in a tight opposition with the ascendant as one interesting configuration and Neptune as the focal point in a yod with Mars and Jupiter as a secondary. With this, I agree with Retinoid, there may be some distortion/confusion on the facts.
 

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
The chart has Neptune in a tight opposition with the ascendant as one interesting configuration and Neptune as the focal point in a yod with Mars and Jupiter as a secondary. With this, I agree with Retinoid, there may be some distortion/confusion on the facts.

[deleted attacking comments - Moderator]

There's no confusion, I know what I went through. If She had only been mean to me, I wouldn't have even started the thread. What kind of benefit would I get from adding made up facts to the story? Pity? What's the point of getting so-called "pity" online? It doesn't validate any feeling whatsoever. I don't need pity or validation.

I'm also not trying to demonize my mother because I hate her. As a matter of fact, I don't hate her at all. I've had instances when she and I got along, but it never lasted because I suspect she has a mental disorder. I wish I didn't go through what I went through and had a loving mother. I'm not saying my mother hates me, but she sure replicated the lack of love she suffered from as a child. Whether it was conscious or unconscious, I don't know. All I know is that she hurt me during most of my childhood and teenage years. I don't resent her, I resent whatever it is that made her act this way because I know that she is capable of being a good mother, anyone can be. I'm the eldest, so all the mistakes she had to make, she made them with me. It's obvious. The problem is that I don't understand why she's still demeaning after all these years.

I'm not going to say I've never argued with her, because I have. Who hasn't even argued with their parents? However, I've never crossed a certain line. I never insulted her or raised a hand on her, and believe me, what I went through wasn't mere spanks because I threw a tantrum at the mall. As a matter of fact, my father told me I never threw tantrums.

Spanks are one thing, but hurting a kid to the point where they're in pain afterwards and for days after (on a daily basis) is a whole different level.

I depicted the fact as they happened. I spent 3 years having nightmares about the day she tried to get that knife on my throat after she pushed me to the ground. Who in their right mind would make up such a detailed story? You would have to be a real schizophrenic or compulsive liar. The truth is I chose to post this thread on a website because I can't go around telling my story to every single person I meet. The fact that this is a website allows me to tell teh whole truth anonymously which wouldn't be possible in real life because I don't want people to know my personal business. Being anonymous allows me to open up completely.

I'm glad you never had to go through what I went through because if you did and people had discredited the authenticity of your story, I'm not sure you would have handled it really well.

I'm not here to beg you to believe me. You can believe me but you're also entitled to have your own perception of the story. Either way, it won't change anything about what happened. Your stance on the matter really doesn't have an impact whatsoever because I didn't post this thread out of selfishness. I wanted answers with regards to my mother's behavior or mental state specifically.
 
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Marinka

Well-known member
[deleted attacking comments - Moderator]

There's no confusion, I know what I went through. If She had only been mean to me, I wouldn't have even started the thread. What kind of benefit would I get from adding made up facts to the story? Pity? What's the point of getting so-called "pity" online? It doesn't validate any feeling whatsoever. I don't need pity or validation.

I'm also not trying to demonize my mother because I hate her. As a matter of fact, I don't hate her at all. I've had instances when she and I got along, but it never lasted because I suspect she has a mental disorder. I wish I didn't go through what I went through and had a loving mother. I'm not saying my mother hates me, but she sure replicated the lack of love she suffered from as a child. Whether it was conscious or unconscious, I don't know. All I know is that she hurt me during most of my childhood and teenage years. I don't resent her, I resent whatever it is that made her act this way because I know that she is capable of being a good mother, anyone can be. I'm the eldest, so all the mistakes she had to make, she made them with me. It's obvious. The problem is that I don't understand why she's still demeaning after all these years.

I'm not going to say I've never argued with her, because I have. Who hasn't even argued with their parents? However, I've never crossed a certain line. I never insulted her or raised a hand on her, and believe me, what I went through wasn't mere spanks because I threw a tantrum at the mall. As a matter of fact, my father told me I never threw tantrums.

I depicted the fact as they happened. I spent 3 years having nightmares about the day she tried to get that knife on my throat after she pushed me to the ground. Who in their right mind would make up such a detailed story? You would have to be a real schizophrenic or compulsive liar. The truth is I chose to post this thread on a website because I can't go around telling my story to every single person I meet. The fact that this is a website allows me to tell teh whole truth anonymously which wouldn't be possible in real life because I don't want people to know my personal business. Being anonymous allows me to open up completely.

I'm glad you never had to go through what I went through because if you did and people had discredited the authenticity of your story, I'm not sure you would have handled it really well.


Transiting Saturn is currently opposing your Mars - very frustrating as this is activating the yod. That frustration is showing up in how you are dealing with matters. This will pass when this transit moves on ...
 
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Osamenor

Administrator
Staff member
The chart has Neptune in a tight opposition with the ascendant as one interesting configuration and Neptune as the focal point in a yod with Mars and Jupiter as a secondary. With this, I agree with Retinoid, there may be some distortion/confusion on the facts.

Even if there is distortion and confusion of the facts, that doesn't mean LostinPhilly is lying, and it absolutely does not mean she was not abused, or not abused as badly as she says. If anything, the distortion of the facts may be going the other way: the abuse was even worse than she remembers.

Traumatized people often go into fugue states when the trauma is happening. LostinPhilly described that, said she went away in her mind when her mother was attacking her. In some cases, that results in memories of the event itself being unclear or missing.

It's much easier to falsely claim abuse didn't happen than to falsely claim that it did. While there have been cases of false memories of abuse that did not in fact happen, all of those false memory cases were brought about by repeated leading questions, usually asked of children by adults zealous to prosecute a "child molester" and/or hypnosis and other techniques used by therapists who were following the assumption, popular in the eighties and early nineties, that any problem whatsoever in adult life was a sign of repressed memories of abuse.

But none of those factors apply in LostinPhilly's case. No one has made any effort to expose her mother as an abuser, let alone prosecute her. No one asked her leading questions. Based on the details she's shared with us, it sounds like she's never seen a therapist who even believed her story. People haven't tried to drag an abuse tale out of her, instead, it's gone the other way. Even some posters in this thread have the gall to accuse her of lying.

So, really, it seems obvious to me that the "distortion and confusion of the facts" consists of attempts to discredit LostinPhilly, not to falsely accuse her mother.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Marinka, we are not about blaming the victim on this forum, so far as I know. I don't think a child could lie about having a gash on her arm from a knife wound. We all have blind spots and distortions in our lives, but this in no way justifies laying some kind of horrible past-lives karmic trip on someone who didn't ask for it.

There is no way the doom-and-gloom past lives fantasies can be verified, so I wonder why they are even worth mentioning, speaking of distortions.

But LostinPhilly-- what keeps you home now? Have you got a friend or relative you can move in with? None of my business, but......
 
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