Negative energy emanating from a toxic parent

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
LostinPhilly, are you willing to post your charts? If you don't know your mother's birth time, just input it as "unknown," and at least it won't generate bogus houses.

I gathered from your post that you are from a traditional culture, possibly southern Asia or Near East. Can you confirm this in a general way?

It seems to me that an important step is just to move out of the house if you are still living at home. Possibly you have a girlfriend with an apartment or a sympathetic extended family member with a spare room. Ideally you could move a long distance away. It seems that you need to maintain some relationship with your mother, but more at arm's length. For example, you can be in communication once a month, but not frequently and not about anything where she might retaliate, like your actual workplace, which is what it sounds like she's doing.

Have you looked at your mother's horoscope? It should show her inner demons. Is it correct that your father is emotionally aloof or intimidated by your mother? You might naturally feel a lot of resentment towards him, as well.

It sounds like she's scapegoating you. This generally happens for reasons internal to her. Your synastry should show why you're her target of choice

But if you don't see anything changing so long as you live at home or close by, perhaps it is time for you to begin a separate life. One where, ideally, you feel surrounded by supportive people, or at least where you can begin to heal with some peace in your life.

Best wishes for your journey, W.

Yes, my parents are "Middle-Eastern". I hate to validate stereotypes, but in this case, they're rather legitimate.

I've never looked at my mother's chart. I'll post the synastry below.

As I stated in the post I just posted above, my father is her minion. He never says anything and does everything she says. He never goes against her "judgment" and never stands up for me. However, when it comes to my siblings, it's a different story. I one day called them "stupid" because they called me "stupid" too (we were younger) and my father told me: "Don't you ever call my kids "stupid". This hit me hard because 1. he never defended me when my mother was abusive towards me. He actually never acknowledged that she was abusive and told me I was a spoiled kid which was not true 2. He didn't consider me as his "offspring" since he said: "my kids" not "your siblings".

I don't resent him but I don't care much for him either. It's like he's absent. He's simply "there".

I will be moving out rather soon for work, but my only chance at being happy is to never move back in ever again. I moved out at 18 for college then work and I only moved back in temporary in July as I was in between jobs. At 25, I still get hit whenever I say something that doesn't please her or et called "stupid" for no reason. This really is the last straw for me, because I might not be able to handle moving back in ever again. I'd rather end my own life at this stage.
 

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
Please find the synastry chart below:

I am on the outside (Scorpio). She is the Leo.

Synastry%20AF%20-%20Edited_zpszmrwjvtq.png
 

Kitchy

Banned
She likes attention. She wants to be the center of attention.

You are right, everything needs to revolve around her. If no one pays attention to her, it drives her mad.

I noticed she's been acting the same way towards the neighbors. She claims they're bigots who hate her because she isn't white and therefore make tons of noise to annoy her. She claims they're stalking her. One day, she discussed it with my father and almost punched him in the face because he didn't want to believe her. Then, she proceeded to grab a knife and walk towards their house to "kill" the woman next door.
Mind you, the woman next door never spoke to her or saw her face to face. Never. She's an old woman with her husband. Yet, every morning my mother screams in the kitchen: "You're such a racist. Bigot ....blah blah" so that the woman hears her. One day, the woman heard her and retaliated by saying my mother is a "*****". Then my mother took these words and claimed they attacked her. She's delusional. I've often been in the house by myself and I've never heard a single noise coming from that house. Ever. So, my mother is simply trying to trigger a fight with the neighbors, again, to get their attention. My parents moved 6 times because of this so-called issue of hers. Hard to believe her claims are legitimate at this stage.

She tries to get attention from whomever.

I discovered something about myself when my mom died. I was so conditioned to her negativity, that after she passed, I truly wished I could still call her up, just like all the old times, even knowing that there was a 90% chance she would hang up on me! That's how much I missed her and her denial and negativity! Isn't that pitiful? Like I said, I spent a good 50 years holding onto that, even when I knew it would made me sad, angry, crazy.

There is a dynamic of willing exchange that goes onto btwn 2 parties in these situations, and each seek it out at alternating moments.

Maybe it's time for you to address your part of 'holding onto hurt' in a therapeutic environment away from her? Mom issues are really hard to shake, but a lot of good self-work can be had with the right guidance and self-questioning. It might help by starting with a photo of you as a child - one that is your favorite. Keep it in your wallet or purse and everytime you have a bad thought or recollection of your mom's ways - take out the pic and look at the little happy child in the pic and then say something positive and affirming to her. It may sound wacky, but it really helps in the re-parenting of yourself! Good luck and know that you are not alone with this matter.
 

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
I discovered something about myself when my mom died. I was so conditioned to her negativity, that after she passed, I truly wished I could still call her up, just like all the old times, even knowing that there was a 90% chance she would hang up on me! That's how much I missed her and her denial and negativity! Isn't that pitiful? Like I said, I spent a good 50 years holding onto that, even when I knew it would made me sad, angry, crazy.

There is a dynamic of willing exchange that goes onto btwn 2 parties in these situations, and each seek it out at alternating moments.

Maybe it's time for you to address your part of 'holding onto hurt' in a therapeutic environment away from her? Mom issues are really hard to shake, but a lot of good self-work can be had with the right guidance and self-questioning. It might help by starting with a photo of you as a child - one that is your favorite. Keep it in your wallet or purse and everytime you have a bad thought or recollection of your mom's ways - take out the pic and look at the little happy child in the pic and then say something positive and affirming to her. It may sound wacky, but it really helps in the re-parenting of yourself! Good luck and know that you are not alone with this matter.

Thanks for this!

I actually carry two or three pictures of me as a kid in my wallet for some odd reason. I'll try your suggestion.

I'm definitely planning on undergoing therapy (again) once I move out. Last time I tried therapy, I was in college and the counsellor didn't believe me for some strange reason. Hence, this time around I'm going to seek a professional with actual expertise.

The influence of a mother is hard to break free from, no matter how negative it is because it's all you've ever known with regards to her and you train your brain to thinks it's "normal" behavior when you know it's not. I completely understand your position.
 

waybread

Well-known member
I need to accept that unaware people can never change especially if they are experiencing an undiagnosed mental disorder. The best course of action is to cut her out for my own sanity before she sheds my inner work apart. I've been working on creating my own identity for so long now, I can't let her destroy that.

Very wise. If you could post your charts separately that would be helpful, as the bi-wheels are hard to read and don't give degrees, so we can't be sure of Mom's inner dynamics.

It does appear that Mom has a close Uranus-Venus (volatile affections) squaring your very powerful Scorpio stellium. Even without your meaning to, you probably come across to her as a very powerful and threatening Scorpio energy. Somehow she feels she has to thwart and control it at all costs as a kind of primal survival mechanism. Does this make sense?

Mom suffers from an undiagnosed mental health disorder. Unless or until she gets that sorted out you can't let her destroy your career, chances for a good relationship (marriage if that's what you want,) friendships, or general happiness. We don't always get the parents we deserve in life, and perhaps cutting off your ties accept for occasional birthday greetings and the like may be your best strategy.

If you have anyone else you can stay with between jobs, this seems like a good idea, so that Mom doesn't get enough information to sabotage what is next in your life.
 

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
Although I do understand that my Scorpio stellium may be more or less powerful, how do you explain the heavy physical abuse I endured as a child? I'm sure the power of such stellium doesn't really kick in when you're 4, on a surface level at least. Does her chart indicate any inclination towards abuse or mental illnesses?

Composite:

Composite%20AF_zpsnrcpoclg.jpg


Mother's Natal:

F%20-%20Edited_zpsug6ebxpr.png


My Natal:

A%20-%20Edited_zpsobpupvcj.png
 

Sweet Pea

Well-known member
I removed my previous post because I misread your Mars in the middle of Gemini, as her Mars. Hers is right at the start of Gemini and it's in a t-square with Pluto in critical Virgo and Moon in Sagittarius. That's enough to make her an abusive Mum, unable to control her fiery, angry energies.

You'll see that the composite Ascendant falls right on her Pluto, so she'll have a strong drive to control everything you do. It may also be the reason why she can control what happens in the rest of your life. Pluto has occult connotations. As the Ascendant falls on her Pluto, it also squares her Mars and her fiery Moon. It is just very unfortunate.

The chances are, that this doesn't happen with your siblings, the connections are more benign. We're all a subtly different person with each person that we know and mix with. Sometimes it's not subtle at all, it's glaringly obvious. :sad:
 

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
Thank you for this analysis, Sweet Pea.

Yes, maybe the connection she shares with my younger siblings is less powerful. She tends to scrutinize my every move, but only to look for a negative aspect, so that she can criticize me. It's not coming from a place of love, but a place of control.

She practices positive reinforcement with my siblings though. She always reminds them of how beautiful and intelligent they are. She never did that with me, on the very contrary, she's always complained that I wasn't "pretty".

She rarely gets angry at my other siblings, but she always gets mad at me. She even tried to cut my throat with a knife when I was 9. She ended up cutting my hand rather deeply, but that was very traumatic.

I also don't understand why she cheated on my father, showed me the texts she exchanged with the other man, then blame it on me by stating I was lying about the whole thing. For heaven's sake, the affair lasted 5 years and my father ended up finding traces of the affair 4 years after I told my father about it.

She's definitely scapegoating me and blaming me for everything that goes wrong in her miserable existence.

According to her chart, mine, the composite and the synastry ... would you suggest the only option is to distance myself from her for good? I doubt it's ever going to get better and I don't want to live a miserable life by being constantly subjected to her waves of emotions even if I'm at a distance or see her occasionally. The fact that she managed to jinx certain personal and professional opportunities maybe because of her "jealousy" doesn't really make me want to be involved with her any further. I've reached a point of no return as of today.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
LostinPhilly, if your mother tried to murder you at age 9, this was serious. Someone should have filed charges against her and either had her tried for attempted murder or committed for mental illness severe enough to be a danger to other people. Obviously a 9 year old isn't mature enough to make this determination, but an adult (like Dad) should have been-- though one can understand why he would have hushed it up.

It is really tragic that you cannot have a modus operandi with your mother, let alone a normal relationship, but I think you are right to sever ties with her. You have too much to gain in your life and too much to lose to let her destroy it for you.

I think the big difficulty in your synastry is that Mom and you have stellia surrounding your suns involving "heavy" planets, and they're squared.

Mom's sun-Uranus can be interpreted as a "volatile identity" and the square from Mars reinforces it with martial aggression. Mars opposes Mom's moon (aggressive emotions.) Pluto square Mars can give real cruelty. Put them together and Mom has a Pluto-Mars-Moon T-square. This is a hard energy to handle constructively, and suggests that Mom's own relationship with her mother was troubled. Do you know your maternal grandmother or anything about her relationship with your mother?

As parents we often re-enact our own parents' child-rearing styles, for better or worse.

But what may be driving some of her conduct is a sun square Neptune in the first. The sun is one's inner sense of self and the first house is one's outer identity. The old sea god tends to dissolve whatever reality it touches, ranging from beautiful illusions to bitter disillusionment. Leo suns need to feel like the queen of the castle, but with Neptune, Mom's identity is under constant undoing.

With your moon in the 12th, Mom is likely to appear troubled regardless of her behaviour. Interestingly your moon makes no major aspects, just a n ambivalent quincunx to Mercury and a bi-quintile to Pluto. So it seems hard for you to gain any frame of reference with which to make sense of your mother. You probably learned at a young age to keep your emotions locked up inside.

A young child can't express everything within her-- these unfold as she matures. I note that in Placidus your Scorpio planets are in an intercepted sign which may also make it more difficult for you to fully express your Scorpio nature.

I think Scorpio is the most unique of the signs. Its emblems are the Scorpion lashing its stinger at real or imagined enemies, the wise old serpent, or the soaring eagle. Fortunately you exhibit the eagle's traits of a high-minded approach. Now it's time to let your eagle soar.
 

Sweet Pea

Well-known member
I'd be out of there, for sure!

I hope you find somewhere else to stay, and work towards complete independence. It sounds as if your life could depend on it.
 

Osamenor

Administrator
Staff member
This is sounding more and more like Snow White and the witch with every post.

I even see some "mirror, mirror" stuff in the composite chart.

You and your mom have a square between your suns. That in and of itself doesn't have to spell conflict, a sun square just means that your core personalities need to grow in very different ways, and possibly, a sun square could create friction between you that sharpens those differences. I see that in my own parents. They have an exact square between their suns, and they do have very different personalities, but they've also stayed pretty harmoniously married for over 40 years. I think in their case, the sun square friction provides the spark that keeps the marriage alive.

Between you and your mom, though, it's more than just a sun square, and the placements suggest a high potential for power struggles. Your mom has her sun in the 10th house. In and of itself, a tenth house sun placement suggests someone who needs to be highly visible in society. Tenth house is also the highest position in the chart, so strong tenth house placements might also manifest as a desire to lord it over others, be in power over. Leo, in that context, only strengthens the message. Leo tends to bring an unconscious sense of power, drawing people in, and/or being a leader. Someone with a tenth house Leo sun is likely to find themself in the spotlight whether they like it or not, and/or a natural leader without even trying to be one.

Like someone else said, this placement looks a lot like "queen of the castle." But that position is challenged by you. Your sun and Venus and Pluto and Mercury, all in stellium, square your mom's elevated tenth house sun from her first house, in powerful and otherworldly Scorpio.

With all that Scorpio energy, and in your own fifth house, which is the native house of Leo, you very likely radiate power of your own, and allure, all unconsciously. In addition, your Pluto trines your AC and sextiles your DC. An aspect between Pluto and the AC/DC creates a sense of power emanating from the native, which others might find highly attractive or frightening or both. Usually, a soft aspect--sextile/trine--makes the native seem highly attractive to others, while a square from Pluto to the AC/DC is more likely to contribute to them seeming frightening and forbidding. (I have the square myself, and have had an interesting discussion on here with someone else who has it.)

So, all unconsciously, your power is challenging your mother's, and she very likely sees you as the new "fairest of us all," with great potential to unseat her.

That your mom keeps calling you ugly, when others keep telling you you're so attractive you must be a model, speaks to that. And if she tried to kill you when you were 9... at that age, whether or not you were starting to visibly develop, you would have been just verging on puberty, with that energy revving up even more. Sounds very much like Snow White again, only your mom didn't have a huntsman to pass the dirty work off on.
 

Osamenor

Administrator
Staff member
But what may be driving some of her conduct is a sun square Neptune in the first. The sun is one's inner sense of self and the first house is one's outer identity. The old sea god tends to dissolve whatever reality it touches, ranging from beautiful illusions to bitter disillusionment. Leo suns need to feel like the queen of the castle, but with Neptune, Mom's identity is under constant undoing.

And to add to this... your mother's natal Neptune isn't right on top of your sun, but does conjunct it if we extend the orb to 7 degrees, and the sign and house placements are the same. So that personality dissolution lives in the same place, for her, as your power. Neptune is also a great provider of illusions (that mirror, mirror on the wall!), so could easily be giving her the illusion of you being a threat to her identity.
 
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katydid

Staff member
Oh My Lord. Philly.

Your Mom has a very tight square from her Moon to her Pluto. That is right on your Composite Asc. Her Pluto sits atop your Comp.ASC and she releases her ugly wrath upon you, physically, emotionally, brutally.

Remember when we said that it felt like a Moon/Pluto issue? It is her Moon/Pluto issue and it is unleashed upon you, directly. It is ugly and uncontrolled and you need to stay away from her if possible. :sad:
 

katydid

Staff member
I am not sure about mental health diagnosis specifically. But she does have a lack of emotional control [ Venus/Uranus combust square Mars, Mars /Moon square Pluto] and may exhibit obsessive thought patterns and neurosis [fixed t-square to Pluto] and perhaps paranoia [ Sun square Neptune, angular]

The Venus/Uranus opposition to Ceres/Chiron brings up a strange meme concerning her possible anger towards you. Does she 'grieve' the loss of her beauty/freedom/youth because she got pregnant young and had to give up her own dreams, thus she tries to thwart yours?

It is fascinating to look at your Moon, in Gemini, disconnected from your other planets/aspects. In some ways you were able to keep her at bay, keep her in the distance and not fully take to heart the ugliness she conveyed. Somehow you were able to see it objectively, compared to how it could have been interpreted by you. Looking at her chart I would expect to see you having a fully debilitated, emotionally detrimental Moon. And you seemed to be able to bypass some of the brutal damage she tried to do. well done.:innocent:
 

Osamenor

Administrator
Staff member
My father is her minion. He's not intimidated by her. He's scared of "losing her" whether to another man or to her own freedom. Ever since he found out about the affair, he's been clinging onto her like a puppy and says amen to everything she says. When she was emotionally and physically abusing me as a child, he never said anything. He was silent and back then, she wasn't involved in any sort of affair whatsoever.

Are you sure she wasn't involved in an affair? If not necessarily during your childhood, then perhaps before you were born... say, nine months before?

As I stated in the post I just posted above, my father is her minion. He never says anything and does everything she says. He never goes against her "judgment" and never stands up for me. However, when it comes to my siblings, it's a different story. I one day called them "stupid" because they called me "stupid" too (we were younger) and my father told me: "Don't you ever call my kids "stupid". This hit me hard because 1. he never defended me when my mother was abusive towards me. He actually never acknowledged that she was abusive and told me I was a spoiled kid which was not true 2. He didn't consider me as his "offspring" since he said: "my kids" not "your siblings".
Do you think there's any possibility he doesn't consider you his offspring because you, in fact, are not?

Your mom has shown that she's not above having an affair. Maybe she had an affair 26 years ago, too. Maybe she swore that would be the last time, when your father found out, or maybe he never found out for sure... all he had was his suspicions, never any definite knowledge.

If there's even the possibility of another candidate for your biological father, that might result in your father not considering you his. Maybe even considering you evidence of his wife's betrayal.

Another possible layer: what if it wasn't an affair on her part? What if she was raped? Then you would be a reminder of that to her, and to your dad, too, if he knows about the rape.

I hope this isn't too heavy a thing to consider.
 

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
My parents got married on November 4, 1989 and I was born November 5, 1990. I am pretty sure my mother was not involved in an affair before marrying my father because it was a marriage of convenience. She had never been with a man before my dad. She was introduced to my father by her own father a month before the wedding. She wasn't allowed to go out at all despite the fact that she was 29. She was also illeterate which didn't help. She was living at her father's who was an alcoholic and never allowed her to go anywhere. She was treated as some sort of a maid who had to take care of her step-siblings and step-mother.

My mother often told me that if it weren't for me, she would have left my father a month after the wedding. She never was interested in marrying my father but had to to release herself from her own father's abusive household. Her getting pregnant with me basically didn't allow her to flee and got her stuck with my father, for my own sake (which eventually turned out to be my nightmare). I strongly believe this is why she took all of anger out on my when I was younger, because I was the constant reminder of her unhappiness. Now that she has 4 children, I'm no longer the primary focus but whenever I'm home on occasion, I still am the primary victim of her mood swings.

My grandmother and grandfather abandonned both my mother and her brother when they were infants (2 & 1). My grandmother and grandfather separated shortly after and both got remarried. My mother and her brother ended up living at their grandmother's until they turned 18. At 18, they moved in with their estranged father who turned out to be an alcoholic.

My mother never had a relationship with any of her parents prior to moving in with her dad. She saw her father for the first time at 18. She was often bullied as a child because she was an orphan. Growing up with her grandmother didn't allow her to build her own identity, especially as she was barred from attending school.

When she moved in with her estranged father at 18, she was treated like a maid. That's the reason why she married the first man who was introduced to her. It wasn't a marriage of love.

When she tried to hurt me with that knife at 9, I told my father who simply told her: "Don't do this to the kid". That was pretty much it. I wasn't fully aware that being physically and emotionally abused at home was illegal. It was almost like a routine to me. I became numb to it all. I started getting physically abused at 4, so by the time I was 9, I had developed strong detachment skills. I would simply allow her to hurt me and tell myself: "She'll be done in a couple of minutes and you'll be able to hide in your room". Most of the time, she'd follow me into my room and continue. Her bursts of angers could last a very long time.

For some strange reason, I was able to raise above the whole matter by detaching myself emotionally. She would hit me but I was not allowed to cry because if I did, she'd call me a "piece of sh*t" as it was a sign of being weak. I can hardly imagine a 9 year old being able to contain their tears when they're being pulled by the hair or hit with a broom in the back. I became so numb to all sorts of feelings that when I became an adult, I found it hard to relate emotionally to others for a very long time. It took me a while to allow myself to be in touch with my feelings and allow myself to feel. I got equipped with a strong ability to detach to the point where I would block out pain and regard it as "normal". I was desensitized.

She always pretends as though she stayed with my dad to save me from being an orphan, when in reality, it was simply because she had nowhere else to go. Besides, when I was a child, she'd often threaten to drop me at child protective services or an orphanage to get rid of me.

I understand she had a rough life. I completely emphasize, but it doesn't justify her horrible behavior towards me. I've been her punching bag my entire life. She's fully aware of this. Unfortunately, she falls into the category of "orphans" who indulge in self-destructive and abusive behaviors as opposed to those who cherish their new found family. She builds things and destroys them. She pretends she doesn't want to see me fail, yet whenever something great comes along, she does or say something to jinx me.

A couple weeks ago, I told her that I was expecting an important phone call relating to work and that I needed silence for about an hour or so. Guess what she did? She picked up a huge fight with my father over eggs right during that one hour time frame. She yelled and threw a huge tantrum for about 40 minutes. If that's not sabotaging someone, I wonder what this is!

I can't choose my family, but I sure was born in the wrong one. I don't relate to them in any way.
 
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LostinPhilly

Well-known member
I am not sure about mental health diagnosis specifically. But she does have a lack of emotional control [ Venus/Uranus combust square Mars, Mars /Moon square Pluto] and may exhibit obsessive thought patterns and neurosis [fixed t-square to Pluto] and perhaps paranoia [ Sun square Neptune, angular]

The Venus/Uranus opposition to Ceres/Chiron brings up a strange meme concerning her possible anger towards you. Does she 'grieve' the loss of her beauty/freedom/youth because she got pregnant young and had to give up her own dreams, thus she tries to thwart yours?

It is fascinating to look at your Moon, in Gemini, disconnected from your other planets/aspects. In some ways you were able to keep her at bay, keep her in the distance and not fully take to heart the ugliness she conveyed. Somehow you were able to see it objectively, compared to how it could have been interpreted by you. Looking at her chart I would expect to see you having a fully debilitated, emotionally detrimental Moon. And you seemed to be able to bypass some of the brutal damage she tried to do. well done.:innocent:

Thanks!

I think I was lucky enough to quickly learn how to detach myself emotionally from what was happening at home. As a child, I was very very creative and whenever I had some "peace", I indulged in writing or drawing or reading. I had a vivid imagination which allowed me to block the surroundings to dream of something bigger and better.

By the time I turned 18, I had become completely numb and desensitized to the whole situation. Now, as an adult, I blocked certain memories in order to bar them from spoiling my present. The damage is real because I had very very heavy insecurities up until I turned 24 and lacked social skills. My main damage is my inability to feel things and more specifically, to assert myself. I have very strong assertiveness issues which I need to correct.

I have been working on my social skills but it is still a work in progress. The only thing that kept me sane was going to college abroad and having various experiences away from her.

I certainly hope I will be done with this dynamic as soon as possible. Next time I move out, I won't be coming back.

Thanks for your help, dear. It really means a lot :)
 

Sweet Pea

Well-known member
What a ghastly story. :(((

Your Jupiter in Leo also fights against her Sun. You came into being already a Queen against her Queen-dom, and she wasn't having any of it.

Your Moon in 12th house shows the victim, and in Gemini shows the ability to dissociate. Your Moon also inconjuncts Saturn in Capricorn for the cold, disciplinarian nature of Mum.

It's this Moon that needs to heal and not put up Saturnian barriers against the people you meet. Scorpio Sun also needs to learn to drop her guard and not view every interaction with suspicion. However these Scorpio energies make you very strong internally and allow you to see straight into the dynamics which have gone on (this inner view being healing in itself).

All the best.
 

retinoid

Well-known member
Please find the synastry chart below:

I am on the outside (Scorpio). She is the Leo.

Synastry%20AF%20-%20Edited_zpszmrwjvtq.png

Imo the relationship is signified by 1) the moon and mars retrograde in your twelfth indicating a lot of past (possibly residual karmic) tension. Also indicates that your mom is not 100% to blame. The ruler of this house is mercury which also influences your relationship and is squared by her venus/uranus deep conjunction saying her feelings and love is not necessarily absent but not traditional. Also she loves people to make her feel good, and something tells me you usually do not. Both are in powerful fixed signs scorpio/leo that do not normally mesh well. Definitely indicates that you guys were involved in other lives together and things never really went well and it carried over. Sometimes we are ambitious in spirit form as things are not as complicated and dense as physical reality.:sideways:
 

waybread

Well-known member
Interesting, retinoid. I, for one, do not believe in the negativity of karmic past lives astrology. We have enough to keep us busy understanding the here and now. If my mother had tried to cut my throat when I was 9 years old, I might find it hard to warm up to her, either.
 
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