Morality of Predicting Death?

sentR89day

Well-known member
It's the same thing with being a psychic! I would keep it to myself, if I were the psychic, or astrologer, unless someone asked me upfront! And even then, I might not tell them! It's a very case-by-case scenario!
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
While I find important that death, be considered an important part of life, and should be discussed, I am not sure if a public forum is the best place for death astrological discussion.

There are many that are curious about the astrology, and that can usually be considered a healthy study. After all, even Lilly has death prediction in his writings.

The problems to me, in a public forum there is too much room for, misunderstanding and the hurt that could be caused inadvertently to, I guess, anyone that could be seeking answers, to questions that without a more intimate knowledge, should maybe not be broached.

In a perfect freethinking world, yes, it should be discussed. But, we aren’t in a perfect world.
Ours is also a learning forum
where many members with zero astrological experience
are encouraged to PRACTICE their skills
and so

clearly

because OURS IS AN ONLINE BEGINNERS/AMATEURS ASTROLOGICAL FORUM

then
misunderstandings are rife
for example

IF told on Horary or Natal boards
that future relationship prospects are negligible
a questioner may feel depressed/upset, even suicidal
or
alternatively
IF told that there is a definite prospect/likelihood of a relationship
AND THEN NO SUCH PROSPECTS OCCUR in reality :smile:
and the questioner then feels depressed/upset, even suicidal


Then

on that basis
in order to
"...prevent harm from depression/feeling upset, even suicidal..."
PERHAPS
all natal as well as horary relationship threads
whether the opinion offered be favorable
or unfavorable
should not be permitted
I do not discuss death prediction with my peers that ask. I say that yes, it can be done, but that I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject to look at that in anyone’s chart. I have had people ask about themselves mostly.

I would fear the power of suggestion.

Asking will I win the lottery is one thing, asking of the lottery of life another.

Not sure what the answer is. Breaks down to rights vs rights.

Liability is a problem too. Public forum, you are not sure who you are talking to, or their motivations.

No easy answer here.
Exactly - on a public forum there is no certainty as to peoples motives
and no certainty as to who one is talking to




.
 

Opal

Premium Member
Ours is also a learning forum
where many members with zero astrological experience
are encouraged to PRACTICE their skills
and so

clearly

because OURS IS AN ONLINE BEGINNERS/AMATEURS ASTROLOGICAL FORUM

then
misunderstandings are rife
for example

IF told on Horary or Natal boards
that future relationship prospects are negligible
a questioner may feel depressed/upset, even suicidal
or
alternatively
IF told that there is a definite prospect/likelihood of a relationship
AND THEN NO SUCH PROSPECTS OCCUR in reality :smile:
and the questioner then feels depressed/upset, even suicidal


Then

on that basis
in order to
"...prevent harm from depression/feeling upset, even suicidal..."
PERHAPS
all natal as well as horary relationship threads
whether the opinion offered be favorable
or unfavorable
should not be permitted

Exactly - on a public forum there is no certainty as to peoples motives
and no certainty as to who one is talking to




.

Thank you JA! Agreed!
 

Bunraku

Well-known member
I've based my life decisions based on your posts and suggestions. So you all better give me good advice so I can live a good life. Thank you :)
 

Cleopatra1

Active member
First, please remember that you may not be able to predict death with 100% certainty. Some times these deadly aspects or planets in specific houses are seen when we lose our beloved ones, or have serious surgeries, etc.

Second, as Scorpio moon, with a very Plutonian chart, I'd focus on human nature - People may encourage you to tell them what you see - yet once you do they can blame you. Or, they may not be able to bear the truth, and develop phobias and anxiety, now that you warned them of how many years are left.

For the above 2 reasons, I'd inform people with caution, and never about death. Just about a time frame where they need to take care of their health.
 

Opal

Premium Member
First, please remember that you may not be able to predict death with 100% certainty. Some times these deadly aspects or planets in specific houses are seen when we lose our beloved ones, or have serious surgeries, etc.

Second, as Scorpio moon, with a very Plutonian chart, I'd focus on human nature - People may encourage you to tell them what you see - yet once you do they can blame you. Or, they may not be able to bear the truth, and develop phobias and anxiety, now that you warned them of how many years are left.

For the above 2 reasons, I'd inform people with caution, and never about death. Just about a time frame where they need to take care of their health.

Most of us agree. It’s not something to be taken lightly.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
First, please remember that you may not be able to predict death with 100% certainty.
Nothing is 100% certain regards astrological prediction :smile:
particularly in view of the fact that horoscopic astrology
is based on a time of birth
and
if that time of birth is unreliable by even a few minutes
then it's not possible to accurately predict events using it

for that reason
rectification is a good option
however rectification is time-consuming
and few astrologers offer that service

Some times these deadly aspects or planets in specific houses are seen when we lose our beloved ones, or have serious surgeries, etc.

Second, as Scorpio moon, with a very Plutonian chart, I'd focus on human nature - People may encourage you to tell them what you see - yet once you do they can blame you. Or, they may not be able to bear the truth, and develop phobias and anxiety, now that you warned them of how many years are left.

For the above 2 reasons, I'd inform people with caution, and never about death. Just about a time frame where they need to take care of their health.
doctors are expected to predict death as well and are frequently wrong






.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
15 yrs ago we lost our youngest daughter. At that time I consulted a group of Vedic Astrologers I was on the periphery of studying with online in a closed specialized Yahoo group long since disbanded. They were "Khullar proficient" astrologers. One or two were excellent including Mr. K himself of course who designed the course and books. However he was not correct as to her date of death. One got it very close. Nothing can really prepare you of course when the time comes. It proved to me it's not in the science of Astrology. Although Astrology proficiency surely can help one get close.

Reading some of this thread made me think of the following verse: I don't ask anyone to agree, only to consider -Nothing is perfect, even science and of course Astrology is not a hard science, at best a soft on, and most an Art form. (B.Brady)

Regarding Jesus: words (in Acts )
He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.

note: As most of you know, the first thing Vedic Astrologers do is rectify to the precise moment of birth the natal chart especially those who are as proficient as the Khullar students were. Yet even birthtime is not a hard science, if we study Edgar CAyce we know this from his readings. The soul and the physical portions can be different by up to an hour. Sidereal charts are handy and should be considered as well as tropical readings side by side considered. Books have been written about this problem.




Greek
[Jesus] replied,
Εἶπεν (Eipen)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 2036: Answer, bid, bring word, command. A primary verb; to speak or say.
not to know
γνῶναι (gnōnai)
Verb - Aorist Infinitive Active
Strong's 1097: A prolonged form of a primary verb; to 'know' in a great variety of applications and with many implications.

times
χρόνους (chronous)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Plural
Strong's 5550: A space of time or interval; by extension, an individual opportunity; by implication, delay.
 

sentR89day

Well-known member
I wouldn't do it. It's too much for my heart.
I also think it's not my job to tell people when their time is up.
I feel like giving someone anxiety about how/when they are going to die can make them feel worse, but these are just my opinions!
 

leomoon

Well-known member
Somehow I ended up with two copies (hardbacks) of "Heaven Knows What", by Grant Lewi - which is an old book originally written in 1935 and then republished in 1947. It was believed by many that Lewi predicted his own death and even bought a Life Insurance policy based on his prediction. He invented a different type of prognostication in the book with aspects in one's chart by combining. I never did "get it" however.
He was the editor of American Astrology Magazine and left to become the editor of Dell Publications' "Horoscope" which some of us may remember if we are old enough. :) Grant Lewi was Sun in Gemini.

from page 6: "He didn't believe in paying for life insurance because he said he had no intention of dying right away. When he was 48 1/2 he changed his mind and bought a life insurance policy. Right after his 49th birthday, he died of a cerebral hemorrhage. He saved himself 30 yrs of life insurance premiums finally paying one premium and the insurance company had to pay off!" It was more than likely just a coincidence rather than figuring out his time of death I'd guess.

from Lois Rodden:

Lewi devised a unique approach to astrological interpretation based upon equating house and sign indications, a method later developed by Zip Dobyns as "the Zip code." He also utilized certain psychological considerations at a time when astrology was more event-oriented. He used transits exclusively for predictive purposes. This approach was developed in his "Astrology for the Millions" and certain of his magazine articles. Lewi's major works remain popular to the present day and have introduced countless numbers of people to astrology.
 

waybread

Well-known member
No,. This thread is now on p. 27, Somewhere in the past I would have noted Richard Houck's book on The Astrology of Death. He totally misjudged both the timing and manner of his own death.

Death prediction is more accepted in Vedic astrology, but they have made some highly publicized errors, as well.

I don't think it's a good idea for a bunch of anonymous amateurs on an astrology forum to predict death. We shouldn't be practicing our beginner/intermediate "skills" on people who are terrified of their own death or of losing a loved one; with serious medical questions.

I say this as someone who went through a hospice volunteer training program last fall. Hospice volunteers are given a lot of information about the end of life, and how best to talk to people in palliative care and their families.

Which astrologers on this forum have learned this material?
 
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Bridget

Member
Do you think it is morally acceptable to predict death for a client? (assuming that they asked)





If your answer is no because of the uncertainty of death, would your answer be the same if you found a surefire technique?





Imagine that you stumbled across something in the chart of a loved one that indicated a very likely time for their death. What would you do with this information? Would you tell the person or keep it to yourself?




How would you refrain from letting that "date" worry you, especially if you kept it to yourself?
I feel after having a stroke which has limited my enjoyment of life for now and this is a question I have
pondered on.So for me it could be useful to know so I can better use my time abd enjoy what life I have left and declutter.I am not planning in transmitting just yet though.I will just BE in the meantime.
 

FraterAC

Well-known member
I'm not crazy about forecasting/predicting unpleasant events of any kind frankly, just because of the self-fulfilling prophesy dimension of doing that. I feel it would be mental poisoning someone.
I've put a fair amount of time (for a non-professional anyway) into identifying the influences producing events, and I have to agree with those who post about just how difficult it is to predict with certainty. Even after the fact it can be difficult to determine what was happening astrologically sometimes.
And someone trying to predict just using transits -- forget it.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
It's the same thing with being a psychic! I would keep it to myself, if I were the psychic, or astrologer,
unless someone asked me upfront! And even then, I might not tell them! It's a very case-by-case scenario!
Death is simply inevitable :)

PREDICTING Death is simple - everyone who has ever lived has either already died
or shall do at some stage


re: PREDICTING A SPECIFIC TIME of Death - often even expert doctors are subject to error

....therefore proceed with caution :smile:

.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Leomoon, I am so sorry about the loss of your daughter.

I agree with you that, regardless of one's religious persuasion, some questions are best left in God's hands (however one understands divine consciousness,) The Divine Consciousness that created the cosmos can surely confound even the most experienced astrologer's prognostications.

Death prediction is more accepted in Hindu society, but even Vedic astrologers can give false predictions.

I think death prediction is immoral, but I decided to learn some things about it when I saw posts by terribly frightened people wondering if their mother was about to die. One poster was told by a friend that his moon progressed into the 8th house signified the death of his mother! This is really, really poor astrology. Whatever methods might be used to practice death prediction, the moon in your 8th house isn't it.

While I sometimes look at charts today re: a request for death prediction, I draw a distinction made by J. Lee Lehman, that we can say whether a given condition appears to be life-threatening or not. This isn't the same as saying that a patient's condition is definitely fatal.

But it is important to keep in mind that a lot of the older methods for death prediction were developed long ago, when human life expectancy was much, much lower than it is today, in the majority of countries of the world. Life expectancy is generally a bit higher for women than for men, but in the US today, the figure is in the 70s age bracket. Yet the planets haven't done anything demonstrably different since past centuries when life expectancy was significantly lower.

Also, there are different techniques for death prediction, and they don't give identical results.

Further, I do think some people are psychic, and some psychics practice astrology. It's not clear that accurate death predictions are actually based on astrology, vs. on premonition.
 

FraterAC

Well-known member
This is why I am extremely loath to forecast negative things, and why I try to reassure people if I can. I'm not going to be responsible for poisoning someone's mind like that.
Even for less than 15 years.
Some people here need to take note.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
.

A line from The Tempest :)
by William Shakespeare
“..and our little life / Is rounded with a sleep...” spoken by the magician Prospero.
He has just made a large group of spirits vanish

and is reminding his daughter and her fiancé that
mortal life also ends quickly.


1678749639357.png
 

waybread

Well-known member
I agree Frater. I think it's unconscionable to view death prediction as an opportunity for amateur hour with beginners who may be completely insensitive. Nobody here would want such a death prediction for themselves or a loved one.

I have to ask whether anyone here who excuses astrological death prediction as a "learning opportunity" for beginners engages in it him/herself; or has much experience with people who are dying.
 
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