MOON - PLUTO: depths of the soul

[curiouswoman]

Moon opp. Pluto here.. my parents were also never married. Lived together on-and-off for maybe 2 or 3 years, then split for good. Haven't seen my father in over 11 years although I talk to him on the phone sometimes (we live over 10,000 miles apart). But I can't say I ever missed him. Never had an easy relation with my mom either, on the one hand we are very close, on the other she physically and verbally abused me a lot and I can't forgive that..

I've also always hated school, it was boring and the social aspect was often overwhelming. I started skipping classes sometime around 6th grade and couldn't get rid of the habit until the end of 10th. I just really really hated being at school.

I JUST HAD GOOSEBUMPS> this is MY LIFE STORY. oohhhh myyy Gooood. my father and I havent seen each other 10 years but talked on the phone. my mother and i fight all the time. sometimes i feel she resents me and competes with me. i know exactly what you mean. BUT IT gave me the chance to be able to understand human beings.

 

[curiouswoman]

I have moon square pluto as well. I had very difficult relationship with mom and dad. My mother was trying to manipulate me while me dad was very distant and seemed - seems that he doesn't love me. I grew up alone, as my therapist says. I have experienced depression quite often. I love being alone and I do not have a energetic social life. I have so little friends. However I never had problems at school or university or now at work. The ''problem'' is deep inside my soul. Also I like to control people...sometimes! It's a kind of pleasure for me! OK, I have limits and do not overdo it. I respect other people's feelings! But it can be enteraining at times...I have cried a lot in my life and have unfortunatelly become suspicious with others. I have the deep belief that I have no one but myself.

i feeel the same way

 

[curiouswoman]

I also have very intense feelings that sometimes I loose control and over react. It has happened to exert even violence over myself and others. But I want to have the control of myself and do not show this kind of behaviour (it is realy embarassing for my personality).

However I attributed this behaviour to mars square uranus I have, and not to moon square pluto.
If both aspects can lead us to loose the control of our selves which is the difference between them?

it is because we ARE SOOOOOOO SENSITIVE and so easily hurt that we overreact as a defense mechanism almost as if I GOT YOU FIRST so you WONT' HURT ME typa thing

 

[curiouswoman]

My Moon square Pluto is from the 3rd of schooling and I had no friends and was very lonely. I didnt get on with my siblings really as we never attended the same school ever or at the same time. I know now that a lot of my thoughts were paranoid and negative. This carried on to the 6th house of co workers where I felt people were slagging me behind my back and sometimes I think that it was actually the case.

we are so powerful and tend to appear strong. people either hate us or really love us. use power for good

 

[curiouswoman]

Oh so excited about this thread!

I have a Taurus moon in the 11th opposing Pluto Scorpio in the 5th, and I've always always found it very hard to completely trust someone. It was years before I realized it was me, not them. I tend to be very sensitive and internalize a lot (even more so since I became best friends with a Scorpio 7 years ago. I finally understood about reading in between the lines.) which causes me to shut down. Meanwhile on the outside it looks like I just stopped talking and they don't know the reason why. I don't have many friends, and I've never been comfortable in large groups of people -always felt like an outsider. Sometimes it feels like I have OCD because my mind cannot stop thinking about an event or person that hurt me though my heart and soul have moved on.

As far as my childhood went, I didn't have a horrible childhood but my relationship with my mother has been a roller coaster. I moved a lot and the biggest thing is I always felt more serious and more intense than the other kids. Looking back now I realize Mom didn't know what else to do with a such a hateful child like I was. I was very, very, very, very obstinate (still am to a lesser degree but I try to fight it now) and since I was a kid (or maybe it's the opposition) I didn't know how to communicate. I also refused to let my parents see me cry (anyone, really but no one else but my parents COULD make me cry so...) I also think this aspect causes a tendency to be torn between being obedient and rebelling, manipulative or straightforward.

I tried asking about this aspect in another website and was poo-pooed simply because "Traditional astrologists don't count Pluto because it's generational." That's fine, I'm not ragging on traditional astrologists at all -but they still had the knowledge I was looking for. In any case! My point is I'm so glad to see it's being discussed and analyzed now so that we can all get a better understanding of that conflict that goes on in each of us.

i relate to this. honestly. i felt as though my mom never cared. that i always had to hustle to get things. to work harder to get that pair of sneakers. i had to hear how "it costs money" blah blah. i felt as though my siblings were treated better. as if i took up space and were annoyed by my presence. i am very intuitive. i am usually right about people. yes women do tend to be jealous of us. our mothers too. men are very much attracted to our "mysteries" quality. but we are very sensitive.

 

[curiouswoman]

i have lost the most precious thing i ever had as well-but in the romance department- and it made me so strong there has been nothing left to lose ever since,i feel that i could lose anyone since i survived this and i have learned to love each person i am in relationship with as if he was my friend and kiss him goodbye when being with me is not anymore to his advantage

oh my GOd i know exactly what you mean. my ex and i were together for about 7 years, ended miserably, suddenly. it was the end of me...or SO I THOUGHT. i feel like superwoman and i feel i have developed unconditional love for humanity after that.

 

[MaeMae]

Re: Hades Moon

CW ~
a succinct description that mirrors my own experience. thank you.
btw ~ i have the square as well.

 

[bittermoon]

Re: Hades Moon

Moon in Scorpio. Up until a few years ago, lots of issues with my mum (though my memories of childhood are wonderful. Largely thanks to my father and my grandmother). Though after her own mother passed away, she seems to have mellowed out a lot. I'm seeing a much more caring, understanding, and protective mother these days. My sister has the Moon-Mars square, and feels the same.

 

[SapSac]

Re: Hades Moon

Yeah I don't know how long the Age Gap is, but I feel this pluto in scorpio thing is a trend among most people I hang out with. My moon is in pisces in the 8th house, which I feel has huge scorpian influence. I could see how the influence of this trait have had/will have an influence on our generation though. Scorpio can be challenging

 

[astrologer50]

Re: Hades Moon

what can be a good exercise is to see what other aspects these two have, maybe the help out - like saturn to stablise, or uranus to add bit excitement. Talking generics without posting charts is like going back to kindergarten. Whilst it's good to learn the basics, you need to develop, grow and move on past the cookbook version into synthesis....

No planet/s work on their own but in relations to signs/houses and aspects. The house it's can give planets a *different set of clothes* and appearances.

sapsac

Yeah I don't know how long the Age Gap is, but I feel this pluto in scorpio thing is a trend among most people I hang out with. My moon is in pisces in the 8th house, which I feel has huge scorpian influence. I could see how the influence of this trait have had/will have an influence on our generation though. Scorpio can be challenging

Pluto in scorpio is simply *generational* and stays in signs for periods around 20years.

Pisces moon
“However, your Moon is in Pisces, which is a highly sensitive and deeply emotional Moon placement. It would certainly feel like a Chiron-Moon contact, even if technically it is not. Those with Moon in Pisces experienced an emotional disconnection from mother whilst growing up. The mother was most likely either emotionally shut down, addicted, or very distracted by her own life. This leaves a deep wound to do with feeling left out or disconnected - emotionally - from the rest of the world.”
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=300612&postcount=5

Comments by R4ven senior member - “Sun conjunct Chiron in 9th” thread

since your Moon is in Pisces, your mother was most likely not available to you when you most needed her to be

 

[MaeMae]

Re: Hades Moon

in my family, there seems to be a deeply rooted genetic coding in the women where pluto is concerned.
my maternal great grandmother died when my grandmother was 3 years old. she was raised without a mother.

when my mother was 3 years old, my grandparents divorced and my grandmother left my mom and aunt to be raised by grandfather and his parents.
when i was 3 years old, my parents divorced and i never knew my father after that.

my son's father and i parted when he was 2 1/2 yrs old.

my maternal grandmother had moon in scorpio. my mother has moon in 8th house.
i have moon square pluto.
my son has moon trine pluto.

 

[moonwillow]

Wow, this has been an intense read...I like intense....
I have moon trine pluto- Cap / Virgo respectively. I am basically going to quote some of those threads that I have had to contend with all my life......, I have other eighth house placements and a Scorpio rising, plus a venus square pluto, so I am sure they all contributed to this misery....

but here goes.... and thank you all for shedding some light on this aspect....I have to say, my childhood was not particularly bad though, I guess we were just way too poor, I had a pretty decent mom, she was tough, but now I understand why, my dad was always working two or more jobs, and now I understand why he was just too tired to talk to us...too tired, working too much and too many mouths to feed....the knowledge humbles me in ways one cannot imagine.....

thank you all for sharing

Moon in Cap - 2nd house trine pluto in Virgo in 11th house

Astofish 94
Lets just say that I'm the type of person who doesn't like many people as I have set standards which I like my loved ones to meet. I'm very easily angered and either you love me or hate me. I don't tend to usually give people a good first impression...I think because this aspect makes me give off some sort of threatening vibe

I can be very observant though for better or worse, lol almost catch everything and can judge people very well.

No chance in hell of anyone dominating me. I'm told that I'm bossy... and oh yeah I don't take criticism well either.

Once you're in my good books, I'll have your back forever and I'm very loyal to loved ones.

Venus in Scorpio 1987
love being alone and I do not have a energetic social life

I have so little friends

become suspicious with others. I have the deep belief that I have no one but myself.

I also have very intense feelings that sometimes I loose control and over react. It has happened to exert even violence over myself and others. But I want to have the control of myself and do not show this kind of behaviour (it is realy embarassing for my personality).

Astrology02
always felt others were talking about me and had some anxiety. This aspect creates the mentality that "the world is against me" , "no one understands"

Doree
''Actually what it is most important is the emotional stability and security, especially for a complete personal revival. When you feel rejected or not accepted, the person may resort to drastic measures for the solution to their problems.

LovelyMissAries
''Actually what it is most important is the emotional stability and security, especially for a complete personal revival. When you feel rejected or not accepted, the person may resort to drastic measures for the solution to their problems.

tend to be very sensitive and internalize a lot
which causes me to shut down. Meanwhile on the outside it looks like I just stopped talking and they don't know the reason why. I don't have many friends, and I've never been comfortable in large groups of people -always felt like an outsider. Sometimes it feels like I have OCD because my mind cannot stop thinking about an event or person that hurt me though my heart and soul have moved on.
I always felt more serious and more intense than the other kids.

I also think this aspect causes a tendency to be torn between being obedient and rebelling, or straightforward

Curiouswoman
we are so powerful and tend to appear strong. people either hate us or really love us. use power for good

Thanks again everyone
best to all my Moon-Pluto kindred

Moonwillow

 

[MaeMae]

This thread is one of the most comprehensive I've read on this forum. Indeed, we are a tribe unto ourselves. I have to snicker at the thought, I admit, that what has been revealed by many here is just the tip of the iceberg of what truly exists in our psyches. Although I'm seen as a very open person by many who know me , there is so much I keep inside, locked eternally within. Almost as if to reveal my truest, rawest emotions would drive others away or at worst, kill me if I were to let them out.
I mentioned in the Hades Moon thread that there is a generational link of Moon-Pluto in my family. Grandmother, Mother, I and my son all have a Hades Moon. Our family has been splintered for as long as I remember.
My Moon Gemini squares Pluto/NN conj. from 11th to 2nd. I've valued my friendships more than my family relationships for as long as I remember, with the exception of my son who is 22. We have been blessed thus far with a tight, trusting bond.
I'm shamed, but honest to admit that I'm jealous of his girlfriend, though happy to see him finding love and contentment in his relationship.
I have been forever vexed by my relationship with my own mother, whom for as long as I've remembered, has instilled fear, dread and doubt in me. As well, I've always had a sense she was jealous of me, for at every good turn in my life, she was there waiting around the corner with a kick in the neck for me, almost as if to say, "How dare you find happiness or goodness!" Of course, that is my perspective. There was a long stretch of time that I felt it would take my mother's death to set me free, emotionally. But at my age, 50, and hers, 82, I know that only transcendence of the painful past and feelings that I have is my option. I have learned to stop blaming her. A work in process.
In friendships, especially with women, I have a very Plutonic selection process. The must be able to go the distance, emotionally, with me. Huge admission price into my heart for female friends. A heart that is narrow, deep & trecherous at times.

 

[lazarusx]

I have the deep belief that I have no one but myself.

I've contemplated this belief for some time; it's something i hold very deep within me and have over time come to accept it in it's own shining light. My sun trines pluto so that may add a dimension of optimism to this.. for me it symbolizes a sense of genuine freedom.. of which i still don't fully comprehend, but am deeply intrigued.

 

[dee12]

Having a moon square pluto like most of the contributors here I'm so fascinated by the replies.. I've read interpretations of the moon-pluto aspect and how it has been related to conflicts with mothers as well as having a broken home and how it applies in this thread. Wow.

Personally, my parents have been separated (which is probably expected already..). Somehow I don't have conflicts with my mother that can be compared to those who have contributed here. I do fight with her at times and I can feel that she's too protective, but never have I thought that she's manipulative. So in that sense it's a bit less 'harsh' that I can't seem to identify with the usual explanations of moon-pluto aspects. I think that in terms of the mother-daughter bond, moon-pluto resonates the most in a way that I share a deep, deep relationship with her. I know I'm supposed to say this as she's my mother, but the bond is so, so strong.

Besides the family connection (which I don't really identify with much) I feel like I can relate to the more emotional descriptions of moon-pluto. I can be so emotionally manipulative. My emotions are always too extreme, I either feel something or I don't, and when I do, I experience it to the extent that I am obsessive. I have trouble letting go yet I always detach myself in relationships (which can be my Saturn in 8th acting up).

 

[MaeMae]

A couple of things:
* the idea of being "alone in the world" ~ for me, I know it's a core sense of being unloveable. I have spent many years doing therapy about this, with some progress, however, it is still difficult to accept or believe love from others, becausesomewhere deep inside of me, I feel that if people really knew ME, they wouldn't love me or give me what I need emotionally. In turn, perhaps because of my Sun/Neptune square, I often find myself giving love and investing emotionally in men who aren't worthy ~ liars, cheaters, selfish types.

*having grown up with a hyper-critical mother, I frequently attract the same hyper-critical men, ones who somehow view me as a project that needs improvement.

 

[MJ82]

I know this is a thread specifically discussing Moon-Pluto aspects, but much of what has been shared here resonates deeply with me. I have an 8th house libra moon and an 8th house stellium (moon, mars, pluto and saturn), with a number of pluto aspects.

I feel everything very deeply and it often overwhelms me, I sometimes think I'm unable to handle my own emotions (maybe that's saturn's influence - it's like a rush of water hitting a dam, and so I repress a lot, but nothing can stay in for long). I live with an almost constant sense of loneliness - my parents divorced when I was 6 and although I'm very close to my mother now, we've had our difficulties in the past and she used to be a little smothering - though it was meant with love, but it crossed over into domineering sometimes.

On the positive side, my intuition and perceptions are very sharp - but even that can be too much sometimes - I've been thinking about this recently and the only way to describe it is that it's like being too attuned to what's around you - like information overload..

Perhaps a heavy 8th house (with the moon there) has some similarities with moon-pluto..?

 

[dee12]

In turn, perhaps because of my Sun/Neptune square, I often find myself giving love and investing emotionally in men who aren't worthy

That's interesting. I've got the sun/neptune square as well, but I don't usually find myself investing in men who aren't "worthy". To what extent do these two aspects (moon/pluto and sun/neptune) affect your emotional life?

 

[MaeMae]

That's interesting. I've got the sun/neptune square as well, but I don't usually find myself investing in men who aren't "worthy". To what extent do these two aspects (moon/pluto and sun/neptune) affect your emotional life?

Well, if I'm truly honest with myself, I'd say it's an ugly combination of sexual power and powerlessness that I waver between; domination and submission, vengance and forgiveness and incredible power struggles and switches between manipulation and vicimization. On a positive theme, great depthsof love and compassion when I allow my guard to be let down, which is sporadic at best. Not afraid to "go the distance" and when the invisible line is crossed ( i never know where that line is until it has been crossed), i cut them cold dead, a metaphorical perception that one of us must die, that we can't both live on this earth at the same time and it ain't gonna be me that dies. Like I said, ugly stuff. But it is my life-long struggle to let go of pain and sense of abandonment and to alter my perceptions that lovers and close friends are either enemies or saviours. Honest moments show me that I am my own enemy and saviour, not others.

 

[dee12]

Well, if I'm truly honest with myself, I'd say it's an ugly combination of sexual power and powerlessness that I waver between; domination and submission, vengance and forgiveness and incredible power struggles and switches between manipulation and vicimization. On a positive theme, great depthsof love and compassion when I allow my guard to be let down, which is sporadic at best. Not afraid to "go the distance" and when the invisible line is crossed ( i never know where that line is until it has been crossed), i cut them cold dead, a metaphorical perception that one of us must die, that we can't both live on this earth at the same time and it ain't gonna be me that dies. Like I said, ugly stuff. But it is my life-long struggle to let go of pain and sense of abandonment and to alter my perceptions that lovers and close friends are either enemies or saviours. Honest moments show me that I am my own enemy and saviour, not others.

Wow.. those things definitely ring a bell. I think that though as they are hard to experience, they definitely make you grow stronger.. which is always positive. Whenever I have an emotional struggle with myself, it's always the feelings of loneliness, self-hate, putting me into the place of the "victim", finding excuses for it, and blaming myself afterwards for it. It's an endless cycle. Do you feel that with Neptune/Sun and Moon/Pluto, there's an disillusioned sense of being the victim to manipulate others?