MOON - PLUTO: depths of the soul

[Kuntuzangmo]

Someone just pointed out to me that Amy Winehouse was in the midst of a moon pluto transit.

 

[Horus]

This is exactly what I'm saying, that I think people with Scorpio or Pluto prominent in their charts in any way, just attract this stuff. I think it's something about Scorpionic/Plutonic energy that other people interpret as sexual for whatever reason.

That's because it is! But it isn't usually 'Sex Lite' with Scorpio, it's sexual energy with the aim for deep intimate bonding and offers potential healing or transformation through such intimacy.

I don't buy that it's something we 'project' onto others, at all - I've been approached like that when I was minding my own business and my thoughts were far away from sex, enough to know it's not me sending out signals.

Indeed it's not projection, but there is a subconscious point of attraction that draws it to you irregardless of being consciously aware of your thoughts.

 

[Horus]

Before i say what I'm about to say, I'm very sorry,its not my intention to be irritating or finger pointing,BUT,if you have a Moon Pluto conjunction,square,opposition,or other hard aspects between these 2 planets you need to learn about 'PROJECTION',Pluto does not generally operate consciously in the majority of people,The energy is generally projected subconsciously onto a suitable receiver who has connected qualities to the projector.
This applies to all of the outer planets energies,Meaning Pluto, Neptune and Uranus in natal hard aspect to a personal planet.
In the case of Pluto this shows commonly as Subconscious behaviour centring around Manipulation.,Coercion and Control.
The projector is generally unconscious of doing this.If they were aware of this behaviour I'm sure they would stop it immediately.There is no blame intended in these statements.
So if you have one of these configurations in your natal chart and you keep attracting a certain type of irritating behaviour from others like sexual harassment you need to ask yourself what you might be projecting Subconsciously that makes you a magnet for these types of people who in them selves are also locked into subconscious Plutonic manipulative behaviour.
As an example.Pluto Square Moon people will often project emotional vulnerability,or excessive emotional obsessive behaviour.
To quote Betty Lundstead,From:'Astrological insights into personality':
"In order to channel this energy for constructive use,The formation of the original pattern must be consciously understood.The mother of this individual needs to manipulate her universe ;she controls her husband,family,friends and neighbours,and this child assumes her response is "normal".The area of emotional control can be determined more fully by the house placements and signs involved in the square.In order to be free of oppressive energy, this person needs to understand how he imitates his mother in his own personal life,How he manipulates those around him,and the manner in which he attempts to control others."......unquote.
If you have one end of this square in the 12th house then it will operate even more unconsciously/subconsciously,You will become a magnet for people who you really despise but rarely suspect it has a connection to your own behaviour,Most likely some of these people will have a karmic connection to you and will even turn out to be secret enemies.
Take it from me,watch yourself,know yourself, and you will be less of a magnet to unendurable behaviour from others.

And sorry again for being a pain

I'll offer my perspective as a certified clinical hypnotherapist. I've spent considerable time studying the subconscious mind and working with my clients' subconscious minds to help them resolve their issues.

First of all, projection is constantly happening with people regardless of placements and aspects. The tendency to project information from the past onto another person or situation can be as simple as mistaking a coil of rope seen from a distance as a coiled snake! This is because the subconscious is an association-making mechanism, always recording information and comparing these memories to the data received in the present experience. Sometimes what is recorded is a misinterpretation of the actual event what was really a rope was recorded as being a "snake" if the person made an asumption and didn't investigate it with an open mind.

Pluto and the outerplanets are transpersonal energies, like power and transformation. They need a link to a peraonl planet to involve the subconscious dynamics. If it's with the Moon, then it's guaranteed for the Moon is the subconscious mind and the dynamics of the law of correspondence: projection, psychic magnetic attraction, and transfiguration absolutely will come into play with a hard Moon aspect. Pluto and outer planets hard aspecting Sun or Mars have more overt effects involving conscious mind and ego though some part of the prevasive subconscious mind is playing a role in motivations, as it does in ALL aspects.

 

[Ruka_5]

That's because it is! But it isn't usually 'Sex Lite' with Scorpio, it's sexual energy with the aim for deep intimate bonding and offers potential healing or transformation through such intimacy.



Indeed it's not projection, but there is a subconscious point of attraction that draws it to you irregardless of being consciously aware of your thoughts.

...So apparently we're subconsciously thinking about sex? lol

Trust me, I'm pretty self-aware, and I'm always fully aware of what's going on in my head. There's no way I'm putting sexual vibes out there when this stuff happens, consciously or otherwise.

 

[Horus]

...So apparently we're subconsciously thinking about sex? lol

Trust me, I'm pretty self-aware, and I'm always fully aware of what's going on in my head. There's no way I'm putting sexual vibes out there when this stuff happens, consciously or otherwise.

You are self-aware of your conscious processes, I have no doubt, Ruka, but you clearly do not understand the nature and role of the subconscious mind and underestimate just how powerful and pervasive it is.

The subconscious mind doesn't quite "think", it feels, it creates, it records memory and stores deeply-held beliefs which act as points of attraction. These manifest as patterns of results. Hypnotherapists like myself find these causes and remove/heal them through age regression and parts therapy. We work on people's "Moons" especially those in hard aspect to Pluto.

 

[Ruka_5]

You are self-aware of your conscious processes, I have no doubt, Ruka, but you clearly do not understand the nature and role of the subconscious mind and underestimate just how powerful and pervasive it is.

The subconscious mind doesn't quite "think", it feels, it creates, it records memory and stores deeply-held beliefs which act as points of attraction. These manifest as patterns of results. Hypnotherapists like myself find these causes and remove/heal them through age regression and parts therapy. We work on people's "Moons" especially those in hard aspect to Pluto.

...Uh, yeah - I'm not subconsciously 'feeling' sexual vibes that I'm sending out to people when this stuff happens, either.

My Moon doesn't form a harsh aspect to Pluto; it conjuncts it, but even if it did form a harsh aspect...I know it's a common new-age belief right now that everything people experience, they attract or cause on some level, but honestly I've never seen anything backing this up, either in my own life or that of friends and family over the years, sorry. At this point it seems to be one of those theories that has yet to show itself to have any legs to stand on in reality.

 

[Horus]

...Uh, yeah - I'm not subconsciously 'feeling' sexual vibes that I'm sending out to people when this stuff happens, either.

My Moon doesn't form a harsh aspect to Pluto; it conjuncts it, but even if it did form a harsh aspect...I know it's a common new-age belief right now that everything people experience, they attract or cause on some level, but honestly I've never seen anything backing this up, either in my own life or that of friends and family over the years, sorry. At this point it seems to be one of those theories that has yet to show itself to have any legs to stand on in reality.

A conjunction is a hard aspect. I'm not here to convince you of anything and don't care what you disbelieve and thoroughly misunderstand, but it's a proven fact that my profession gets effective results in "reality" and I suggest you do more research before denouncing such matters as New Age.

 

[Ruka_5]

A conjunction is a hard aspect. I'm not here to convince you of anything and don't care what you disbelieve and thoroughly misunderstand, but it's a proven fact that my profession gets effective results in "reality" and I suggest you do more research before denouncing such matters as New Age.

Hard aspects are squares and oppositions.

Conjunctions are neutral, neither inherently 'good' or 'bad'. It's simply a blending of the energies of the two planets involved; and to be fair, you did spend a couple posts there trying to convince me that it's something I'm feeling that apparently I don't even know I'm feeling, that's causing strange men to approach me in a sexual manner, so I'm somewhat inclined to think you do care what I think.

True, it could be that you get results; or, it could be the Placebo effect.

In all honesty (and with all due respect), it'd probably be more accurate to say you could stand to read more yourself because what you said in your posts is totally "New-Age". All New-Age stuff is, is a bastardized mash-up of various ancient religions; occult and mystical practices; philosophy and psychology, into one nonsensical runny mix. Google it if you don't believe me.

But I feel quite sure you won't because people believe what they want to believe, whether it's true or not, whether they have evidence to support it, or not.

 

[Horus]

Hard aspects are squares and oppositions.Conjunctions are neutral, neither inherently 'good' or 'bad'. It's simply a blending of the energies of the two planets involved;

Actually, Ruka, and conjunctions are indeed considered hard, half the time or more. They operate as a double-edged sword, and when involving certain planets, particularly the malefic planets like Pluto, nearly all astrologers agree they are "hard".

and to be fair, you did spend a couple posts there trying to convince me that it's something I'm feeling that apparently I don't even know I'm feeling, that's causing strange men to approach me in a sexual manner, so I'm somewhat inclined to think you do care what I think.

Please! If I was trying to convince and cared, you'd have much longer replies from me with links galore, I can assure you, the thread would be derailed into an extraneous tangent, and mod would step in and stop it.
Now, when someone makes incorrect assertions or fallacious arguments on subjects of which I am well studied, I'll certainly step in to set the record straight. This is a learning board.

True, it could be that you get results; or, it could be the Placebo effect.

LOL! What do you think the placebo effect is? It's the "power of suggestion" a suggestion to the subconscious mind that produces the result! And suggestion therapy is a core component of hypnotherapy precisely because it does work!

In all honesty (and with all due respect), it'd probably be more accurate to say you could stand to read more yourself because what you said in your posts is totally "New-Age". All New-Age stuff is, is a bastardized mash-up of various ancient religions; occult and mystical practices; philosophy and psychology, into one nonsensical runny mix. Google it if you don't believe me.

"With all due disrespect" is what you really mean't since you've cast my words and profession as part of a "bastardized" "nonsensical" amalgam. And what are you, a skeptical scientist on an ASTROLOGY board? LOL! The closed-minded folks who write the same denigrating and insulting attack on some parts of the New Age (of which clinical hypnotherapy is not part) don't believe in the validity of Astrology either - "Google that if you don't believe me". So what are you doing here?

But I feel quite sure you won't because people believe what they want to believe, whether it's true or not, whether they have evidence to support it, or not.

ROFL!!! That certainly applies to you, doesn't it! Look in the mirror, Ruka!
Then read Jung, Erickson,Elman, Boyne, and Barnett and I'll send you some more!

I notice that your ASC at 8° Aqua and Mercury at 8° Leo sq. my Sun on the dot, and your Leo Sun sq. my Mercury at 1° orb. I think we're just going to have to agree to to disagree and part ways unless you want to formally debate me in PM or in a new thread in the non-astro section. But w/ the Martian opp. transit I'm in, I think I'll just go to the lake and work on my tan!

 

[CosmicBlyss]

I have Moon square Pluto and let's just say I've had my share of crying... I didn't have an exceptionally tough upbringing, but depression would always creep up. A few things happened in my childhood but it's mostly depression that ruined my life. I honestly think my parents don't care about me, we live in the same house yet we don't talk a lot and I don't know how to relate to them. Even if I was crying in my room, they wouldn't want to help... Sorry if this seemed like I was complaining lol, but that's from my perspective of this aspect.

I was reading the other day in Jeff Green's Pluto - The Evolutionary Journey of the Soul, that when Pluto transits the 8th house, the messages we receive from those close to us can come either positively or negatively. He talked about the fact that in some cases people who we have considered to be our stable forces may in fact try to create confrontations, in the attempt to hold you back because of the personal threat they perceive by your growth. I have really noticed this with my immediate family. I am beginning to see where I wasted much of the positive energy that God gifted me and used it in the wrong ways..

I have moon square pluto as well. I had very difficult relationship with mom and dad. My mother was trying to manipulate me while me dad was very distant and seemed - seems that he doesn't love me. I grew up alone, as my therapist says. I have experienced depression quite often. I love being alone and I do not have a energetic social life. I have so little friends.

I totally feel you there I have Sun quincunx Pluto, Mercury sesquiquadrature Pluto, Pluto square Juno and quincunx Vesta, along with Pluto trine Moon, semi-sextile Saturn/MC. I've also dealt with serious depression throughout my life, primarily due to heavy unrelenting life circumstances (Saturn/MC opp Sun, sesquiquadrature Venus & Chiron, square Neptune).

I have primarily poor aspects with my mother [Moon opp Pluto, square Mars and quincunx Chiron, Mercury & Jupiter square Moon and sesquiquadrature Mars & Venus, Venus quincunx Moon, Mars quincunx Sun, opp Chiron & semi-square Saturn, Venus opp Mars & Jupiter and square Uranus & Juno, Jupiter quincunx Juno, Saturn semi-square Uranus, Uranus square Pluto, Neptune square Sun, Sun semi-square Chiron, Saturn quincunx Chiron, Pluto opp Mercury & Jupiter and square Chiron, Juno square Mercury, sesquiquadrature Venus and square Jupiter & Neptune] and can relate to not feeling very cared about and/or being a high priority, living in the same house but hardly really communicating or participating in an actual relationship, despite being parent/child. If I was obviously upset or crying for whatever reason/s, that was more like a (sick) amusement of some sort or annoying inconvenience to have to deal with, if my disturbed state of being was even seriously acknowledged at all.

She was very controlling and emotionally manipulative, along with highly emotionally unstable. Somehow in her strangely twisted, self-deluded, anti-trust world, I didn't have a basic 'right' to my own self and there was some kind of messed up paranoia if she didn't know what I was doing and/or if I was involved with someone that could in some way take me away from her or influence my thinking..like other people were some kind of threat.

I basically had to be like her, think/feel/act like her or do something directly for her benefit, to end up with some kind of random positive acknowledgement of existance. My father was unfortunately (understatement) primarily absent from my life as he died when I was young and the other few extended family members that were somehow part of my life either also died, or were/are too caught up in their own issues to have much interest in mine.

I 'grew up' (mostly just older) pretty much like an emotional orphan and home life was extremely lonely as I was rarely not by myself, and typically still by myself anyway even when my mother was around, as most conversations circulated around her. It's extremely difficult to move forward in life in any sort of healthy, balanced way when your primary guidance and source of life or academic support (aside from belief in God/any religion and/or spiritual practice/path) is yourself. Definitely NOT happy times.

 

[CosmicBlyss]

I have Moon in Cap in the 10th square Pluto in Libra in the 7th. I also have Saturn in Cancer, in the 5th.

I experienced my mother as overwhelming and devouring. Everything is a moral issue for her, and even something as simple as loading the dishwasher (the plates had to face right, not left) could result in a moral judgment against me, transforming me into a bad person... something she couldn't tolerate, since she was powerfully Neptunian and considered us to be the same person. If I did something in a way she would not have done it, it created an identity crisis for her... as if her own arm had suddenly mutinied on her. Consequently, even a minor infraction on my part would put me in the cross-hairs of her terrible rage and fear. When I reached puberty, it became much worse. About once a week, she would fly into a rage. She'd scream at me for 2-3 hours, along with my dad, who would sit in pained silence and even cry at times. The most repeated litany in these tantrums was this: "We're becoming three separate people living in the same house! I can't live like that! I won't!"

Obviously, for survival reasons, I learned to be what my mom wanted. I displaced much of my own rage onto other targets.. This made it difficult for me to separate from my family, or become self-sufficient as an independent adult. I eventually had to descend into the Hell of my unconscious and confront my rage directly before I could become my own person or even hold down a job. The displaced rage robbed me of all my get-up-and-go.

Now, I feel like all the rage and hurt have been purged from me and I'm left with the gifts of the Pluto-Moon aspect. I have a deep fascination with human motivation. I have strong intuition. I understand the relationship between growth and pain. Being an artist/writer, I have a ready access point for all that boils in the deep of the collective unconscious. I no longer fear the dark, metaphorically speaking. When you can look a demon in the eye, unafraid, it transforms into a creative muse. As painful as it was to conquer, I wouldn't trade my Moon-Pluto square for anything.

OMG Coyote.. I literally had to pick my jaw up off my desk after reading this post. We are seriously some kind of astro-siblings in Neptunian/Plutonian & Leonian/Taurean ugliness here. I went through the *exact* same thing with my mother (Sun, Venus & NN in Pisces with Mars in Scorpio (opposite my Venus in Taurus) & Pluto in the 3rd house (opposite my Moon)).

I have suspected at times that as soon as I became old enough to have and voice my own thoughts and opinions (Moon & Mercury in 3rd), especially those that differed from hers..is when the constant struggle for my own identity and serious personal battles on the homefront began, with pretty serious arguing/fighting & destructive power struggles emerging throughout my pre-teen and teen years (before I 'knew better' in terms of going down to her level and engaging in exhaustive fighting back, occasionally physically).

It is seriously crazy that I have had the exact same type of experiences as you and seeing it written here, adds confirmation to some of the things I have wondered about, like why I have even had thoughts like that/where they may have come from! Sadly one of the last things I think I remember while my father was still pseudo-around, when I was around 11-12ish, is an instance with my mother and I having some bad, drawn-out argument (I have no memory of the specific details) and him coming up the stairs upset because we were seriously fighting.. Ugh.
I was the victim of her unexplained, severe Rage a number of times and it drove me MAD when a short hour or two later, she would be back to 'normal' and would go around like absolutely nothing happened, that she wasn't just completely possessed (literally) by a different person who was NOT my mother and nothing was EVER talked about. It simply didn't happen.

I'm really not sure what/how my own Rage has been displaced into as I'm very much not a violent person (way too Neptunian for that + I hate personal conflict..), so it's likely that it's just been buried under mountains (years) of camouflaged (self-illusion/delusion that it's not really there and/or doesn't matter) Neptunian sand to the distinct detriment of my own well-being. Like..perhaps I don't identify with feeling or accepting my own anger (Rx Mars in Leo opp Moon) so much as to the point of completely shutting off from it, so in order for it to have some kind of expression..whether healthy/productive or not..it ends up being manifested by/through other people in my relationships (my boyfriend has Mars in the 1st conj Sun)..particularly to make ME deal with my own dormant issues in this area that I try to pretend don't exist.

I'm really curious Coyote how you were able to "descend into the Hell of your unconscious" and confront the displaced boiling rage in order to become your own person, no longer so attached to the family drama and your past. What was the actual process you went through and/or the support system (especially emotionally & psychologically) that you had in place to really/finally be able to confront & conquer the inner darkness and be truly purged/healed of all the life-sucking (soul draining) ****?

You sound to me like you're a few steps ahead on this heart-weary journey of recovery that I've stuck one foot into to test the water, and I'm always glad/relieved to find another traversing a parallel path. I'm all for collecting (Taurus) spiritual life gurus (i.e., friends - Aquarius) when I happen to discover them along my bumpy travels (Sag).

 

[bigblack]

@horus wrote

I'll offer my perspective as a certified clinical hypnotherapist. I've spent considerable time studying the subconscious mind and working with my clients' subconscious minds to help them resolve their issues.

First of all, projection is constantly happening with people regardless of placements and aspects. The tendency to project information from the past onto another person or situation can be as simple as mistaking a coil of rope seen from a distance as a coiled snake! This is because the subconscious is an association-making mechanism, always recording information and comparing these memories to the data received in the present experience. Sometimes what is recorded is a misinterpretation of the actual event what was really a rope was recorded as being a "snake" if the person made an asumption and didn't investigate it with an open mind.

First I also have have a moon/pluto conj.

@ruka_5

I agree with Horus about this, but maybe I would go further.

Just because you cannot see something does not mean it does not exist. Look at sub-atomic particles, bacteria, magnetic waves etc..

The world works in what is to us a mysterious way. Scientists/physicists when when looking at certain particles have noticed that by looking they affect what they are looking at. There are computers which are now using quantum mechanics/theory in their calculation. Trouble is when the mechanism is looked at the calculation goes adrift.

I'd hate to sound religious with you but god works in mysterious ways, but the devil does as well. What we believe is happening quite often is wrong. The reason that we assign to an event is not the real reason why an event happens. In this way we hide the truth from ourselves.

Its like we are constantly using what George Orwell expressed as "double think" in his book 1984.

So to those who expressed disgust/repulsion at being approached sexually, you need to examine your actions - thoughts.

When you keep the devil behind you, you cant see what he is up to.

The greatest trick the devil ever performed was to convince the world he does not exist. We pretty much do the same to ourselves.

 

[CosmicBlyss]

Interesting, very interesting. I have moon conjunct pluto in 11th in Libra. Hence it has taken me 32 years to make a descison on this one!!

I too have had my fair share of crying, but I do it alone. I have problems showing my feelings beacuse of a fear that other people would see it as a weakness and take advantage of my true emotional nature. Yet I have problems controlling some of my emotions; saddness and frustration, others I have control over (or i thought I did), denying them any outlet at all.

I have a good relationship with my mother (which takes a lot of effort on my part) but we have reversed roles. I have always been the parent looking out for my mother, always wanting to protect her. I put this down to my early childhood which was anything but stable!!
It is only recently that I have acknowledge that although my mother allows my to swap roles with her, she also wants to control me wish she did with great ease untill she fell of the very high pedestal I placed her on!!

After much researh (which will be forever ongoing) on the web and astrology forums I am now beginging to accept my hades moon which gives us all who posses it great inner strength when we learn to handle it's power and accept it.

I'll offer my perspective as a certified clinical hypnotherapist. I've spent considerable time studying the subconscious mind and working with my clients' subconscious minds to help them resolve their issues.

First of all, projection is constantly happening with people regardless of placements and aspects. The tendency to project information from the past onto another person or situation can be as simple as mistaking a coil of rope seen from a distance as a coiled snake! This is because the subconscious is an association-making mechanism, always recording information and comparing these memories to the data received in the present experience. Sometimes what is recorded is a misinterpretation of the actual event, what was really a rope was recorded as being a "snake" if the person made an asumption and didn't investigate it with an open mind.

Pluto and the outerplanets are transpersonal energies, like power and transformation. They need a link to a personal planet to involve the subconscious dynamics. If it's with the Moon, then it's guaranteed, for the Moon is the subconscious mind and the dynamics of the law of correspondence: projection, psychic magnetic attraction, and transfiguration absolutely will come into play with a hard Moon aspect. Pluto and outer planets hard aspecting Sun or Mars have more overt effects involving conscious mind and ego though some part of the pervasive subconscious mind is playing a role in motivations, as it does in ALL aspects.

LOL..I have definitely stumbled into the right place.

I can relate Pepperpot, as that is also (unfortunately) similar to my experience..having reversed roles as a child/young person and having to be an emotionally responsible 'adult' in situations with my unstable mother, while serving as her overall surrogate friend/partner in a very one-sided relationship.

Combine that with Plutonian/Neptunian power/manipulation &
projection/delusion issues.. her requiring some kind of absolute control of me regardless of the actual corrupted relationship dynamics and the complete inappropriateness of that..which very likely suited her well (as I just went along with the 'program', being a pedestal building, very Piscean child) until I reached a certain age/point where I possibly saw into things I wasn't supposed to see/understand (Aquarian insight + Scorpionic perception) so 'young' and then questioned/knew weren't quite right..

Perhaps there really is some future benefit in taking a planned vacation (kind of like getting into an elevator and riding it up to the very top floor, number "12", except this particular floor in this particular hotel functions like the horror movie "13th" floor) into the cavern of my subconscious (Scorpio 12th house - 12th house = potential factory of spiritual diamonds [blessings & gifts, possibly from previous lifetimes] - IF you can find them in there after going through the serious **** and making it to the other side) if it can seriously modify attracting other people/situations into my life that really don't need to be around, choking out the lotus flowers growing in the labryinth of my spirit and polluting the fertile soil of my heart.

On a related note.. The 12th House http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_dgtwehouse_e.htm

"Our 12th house planets and signs are like children with special needs. They’ve suffered a critical deprivation. In some way our early environment didn’t encourage or support their expression. They may be usurped, denied or shamed by our caretakers. Somehow we got the message they're unsafe to express. Whatever the rejected planet or sign, the subconscious awareness of its loss leads to a kind of victim consciousness, a conviction, in fact, that it's morally right to feel sorry for ourselves. Weren't we robbed after all?"

"From the modern perspective, to redeem 12th house planets, you must first become aware that you have them..."

[deleted quote over 100 words against forum rules - Moderator Note: Please do not post quotes longer than 100 words in your posts]

 

[AriScoPis87]

I'm writing this because I think this aspect is very negatively received, and while I understand that it's considered a difficult position, not everyone with Moon in Scorpio or Moon conjunct Pluto in Scorpio has a bad childhood or was abused. The emotional intensity of this position may be difficult for some, but I personally wouldn't change it for anything else. I attribute the ability to see through people, and though any situation, to this position.

This is very true! not all with this have this. I think it depends on what house the moons or moon/pluto aspects are in. I think if it's in a water house, maybe? Not sure, but it could be good to be researched at some point and time.

 

[Ruka_5]

@horus wrote



First I also have have a moon/pluto conj.

@ruka_5

I agree with Horus about this, but maybe I would go further.

Just because you cannot see something does not mean it does not exist. Look at sub-atomic particles, bacteria, magnetic waves etc..

The world works in what is to us a mysterious way. Scientists/physicists when when looking at certain particles have noticed that by looking they affect what they are looking at. There are computers which are now using quantum mechanics/theory in their calculation. Trouble is when the mechanism is looked at the calculation goes adrift.

I'd hate to sound religious with you but god works in mysterious ways, but the devil does as well. What we believe is happening quite often is wrong. The reason that we assign to an event is not the real reason why an event happens. In this way we hide the truth from ourselves.

Its like we are constantly using what George Orwell expressed as "double think" in his book 1984.

So to those who expressed disgust/repulsion at being approached sexually, you need to examine your actions - thoughts.

When you keep the devil behind you, you cant see what he is up to.

The greatest trick the devil ever performed was to convince the world he does not exist. We pretty much do the same to ourselves.

...Of course there's things we can't see that exist . I'm usually one of the first people to say that when others dismiss claims regarding otherworldly phenomena or the unexplained because I've experienced it enough myself to know it does. But psychobabble doesn't explain everything, doesn't always apply to any and everyone, and sometimes yes, a spade is just a spade. As I said before, I was in no way putting out sexual vibes to any of the people who approached me and I'm not going to take responsibility for them being unable to control themselves, and besides, even if a person trots by completely naked, that doesn't give anyone who sees them a free pass to fondle them, take advantage of them or whisper unwanted sexual advances in their ear.

And frankly I'd be worried about anyone who didn't express disgust and repulsion at the idea of random strangers approaching them in a very sexually aggressive manner.

I'll also say that I'm absolutely not surprised by the assumptions and comments you've made (complete with connecting me to the devil), especially if you've looked at my chart, because unfortunately a lot of astrologers rely on astrological stereotypes about certain signs, houses and aspects and immediately make assumptions about people and their motivations and character based on that, usually negative. I've had people tell me that I have a 'dark chart', that everything must be my fault when something goes wrong, so on and so forth. I've also heard other people's horror stories about being told by astrologers they must've raped, killed or tortured someone in a past life because they have planets in Scorpio and the 12th house...

People with really Scorpionic (or Plutonian) charts, usually don't get a fair shake from astrologers and I'm used to that.

 

[AriScoPis87]

I've had people tell me that I have a 'dark chart', that everything must be my fault when something goes wrong, so on and so forth. I've also heard other people's horror stories about being told by astrologers they must've raped, killed or tortured someone in a past life because they have planets in Scorpio and the 12th house...

Wait whoa! I would have thought it was an 8th house badly aspected to the south nodes, which those nodes point to the past life in which has set you for this life's lessons? Like a Taurus moon Opposition to the Scorpio South Node or something along those lines and then throw in some Mars and Saturn, maybe it could then point to rape, murder, or torture. I've always define a badly aspected 8th house to the south node with someone how mars involved as this. Mostly because what they all represent.

People with really Scorpionic (or Plutonian) charts, usually don't get a fair shake from astrologers and I'm used to that.

I think some astrologers fear strong Scorpio based charts for those that do are too old fashioned in astrology, looking at the stereotypes and not going deeper into the chart itself for more explanations. Sometimes it's just using tighter orbs to prove if something is strong in a chart or just not activated at all.

 

[bigblack]

Hey ruka_5

..Of course there's things we can't see that exist . I'm usually one of the first people to say that when others dismiss claims regarding otherworldly phenomena or the unexplained because I've experienced it enough myself to know it does. But psychobabble doesn't explain everything, doesn't always apply to any and everyone, and sometimes yes, a spade is just a spade. As I said before, I was in no way putting out sexual vibes to any of the people who approached me and I'm not going to take responsibility for them being unable to control themselves, and besides, even if a person trots by completely naked, that doesn't give anyone who sees them a free pass to fondle them, take advantage of them or whisper unwanted sexual advances in their ear.

And frankly I'd be worried about anyone who didn't express disgust and repulsion at the idea of random strangers approaching them in a very sexually aggressive manner.

I'll also say that I'm absolutely not surprised by the assumptions and comments you've made (complete with connecting me to the devil), especially if you've looked at my chart, because unfortunately a lot of astrologers rely on astrological stereotypes about certain signs, houses and aspects and immediately make assumptions about people and their motivations and character based on that, usually negative. I've had people tell me that I have a 'dark chart', that everything must be my fault when something goes wrong, so on and so forth. I've also heard other people's horror stories about being told by astrologers they must've raped, killed or tortured someone in a past life because they have planets in Scorpio and the 12th house...

People with really Scorpionic (or Plutonian) charts, usually don't get a fair shake from astrologers and I'm used to that.

Somehow you have mistaken that I am having a go at you. Not so.

First I have not seen your chart.

I am not likening you to the devil in any which way shape or form. We all try to put the devil behind us. Its that part of ourselves that we try not to deal with or ignore or even dont know about. In many ways when I say the devil I use the term/word for want of a better term/word. There are parts within ourselve that we are not in control of and it almost seems that they are not a part of ourselves. In this way you can see why the ancient people thought that there were angels and demons and often ascribed "the devil inside". This was before modern day psychology of course.

even if a person trots by completely naked, that doesn't give anyone who sees them a free pass to fondle them, take advantage of them or whisper unwanted sexual advances in their ear.

Generally I agree. But according to social convention and in what context is this person trotting by?

And frankly I'd be worried about anyone who didn't express disgust and repulsion at the idea of random strangers approaching them in a very sexually aggressive manner.

Again I agree. But of course this again is according to social convention, and context.

I've had people tell me that I have a 'dark chart', that everything must be my fault when something goes wrong, so on and so forth.

Its not your fault. It sounds as if - like myself - that you have been born - perhaps from a past life - with a certain outlook on life - that has been brought through to this life - that is in opposition to what is happening. And Again from another past life you have brought in influences that are contrary to expectations. Hence the sexual advances that you do not like and have trouble dealing with. But what I write could be hippy psycho babble. Its certainly an idea that I toy with about my situation.

I dont class myself as an astrologer - maybe an armchair astrologer - or a one day general.

 

[Amunet]

Do Transits count? Because I am dealing with this aspect in my solar return chart. I've noticed how my feelings are more deeply profound and intense. I feel more equipped in handling the sensitive and emotional issues that some people would naturally not feel drawn to...The psychological and darker side of human behavior has become an interest of study for me also. My natal chart has several other Pluto aspects that further enhance this ability.

 

[MaeMae]

Hades Moon

Moon in Scorpio? Moon aspecting Pluto?
Interested in discussing Mommy issues?
Keywords:
Eat or be eaten, Kill or be killed? Get on your back and take the kicks in the neck if you are unsure of where you stand with it. Revenge. Curses. Survival of the fittest. It's not over and you don't even know it's started.
God Help Us All...

 

[curiouswoman]

Re: Hades Moon

I have moon square pluto. sometimes i feel my mother is my enemy. i feel she is jealous of me and competes with me. we do not get along well unfortunately. i try to be the best daughter i can be. she came from a bad childhood herself.