MOON - PLUTO: depths of the soul

desperateneptune

Well-known member
i have lost the most precious thing i ever had as well-but in the romance department- and it made me so strong there has been nothing left to lose ever since,i feel that i could lose anyone since i survived this and i have learned to love each person i am in relationship with as if he was my friend and kiss him goodbye when being with me is not anymore to his advantage:happy:
 

Raquel

Well-known member
i have lost the most precious thing i ever had as well-but in the romance department- and it made me so strong there has been nothing left to lose ever since,i feel that i could lose anyone since i survived this and i have learned to love each person i am in relationship with as if he was my friend and kiss him goodbye when being with me is not anymore to his advantage:happy:

Many times i feel that way too, stronger as anything more could affect me like this sad event did.
But I'm still afraid because this way of feeling is not real, even now with that experience that made me stronger, if I lose another dear person would be hard as well.
And the sadness in life, is not dying... but harder than her death was seeing her suffer... that's is the hardest part. Through death comes the rest... maybe eternal, maybe not... but at least the suffering ends for some time.
I don't love life so much to be afraid of dying... but I'm afraid of suffering... and through a great disease in myself I do not know if I would have the strength that my mother found... (It would be so simple without a body...)
 

desperateneptune

Well-known member
i am afraid of suffering too :sad: but if you think that you' ve had your share of suffering and still you managed to get through this as well..
maybe you will never have to suffer again :)
 
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Raquel

Well-known member
anyone here knows about Pluto square Ascendant? (pluto in scorpio square rising in leo?) Thank you

By the way... my boyfriend has moon opposition pluto and oppo. mars... we are together for 5 years, 3 living together... he is a litlle bit agressive when angry, but he's mostly calm and patient. very understanding, and is jealous too, but not showing...
That's weird... I'm a mess comparing to him...
 

Coyote

Well-known member
I have Moon in Cap in the 10th square Pluto in Libra in the 7th. I also have Saturn in Cancer, in the 5th.

I experienced my mother as overwhelming and devouring. Everything is a moral issue for her, and even something as simple as loading the dishwasher (the plates had to face right, not left) could result in a moral judgment against me, transforming me into a bad person... something she couldn't tolerate, since she was powerfully Neptunian and considered us to be the same person. If I did something in a way she would not have done it, it created an identity crisis for her... as if her own arm had suddenly mutinied on her. Consequently, even a minor infraction on my part would put me in the cross-hairs of her terrible rage and fear. When I reached puberty, it became much worse. About once a week, she would fly into a rage. She'd scream at me for 2-3 hours, along with my dad, who would sit in pained silence and even cry at times. The most repeated litany in these tantrums was this: "We're becoming three separate people living in the same house! I can't live like that! I won't!"

Obviously, for survival reasons, I learned to be what my mom wanted. I displaced much of my own rage onto other targets--mainly my grandfather (who, as a known child molester and so provided a very convenient target that was acceptable to my mom, since she hated him too). This made it difficult for me to separate from my family, or become self-sufficient as an independent adult. I eventually had to descend into the Hell of my unconscious and confront my rage directly before I could become my own person or even hold down a job. The displaced rage robbed me of all my get-up-and-go.

It eventually also became necessary for me to experience a deep break with my parents. I left the religion I was raised in (significant because religion and spirituality were my mother's primary means of control over me) and moved from California to Texas. I barely spoke to my parents for five years (their choice more than mine), and only visited home once (at my own instigation and I wasn't welcome). The alienation hurt terribly, but in the end was entirely necessary.

Now, I feel like all the rage and hurt have been purged from me and I'm left with the gifts of the Pluto-Moon aspect. I have a deep fascination with human motivation. I have strong intuition. I understand the relationship between growth and pain. Being an artist/writer, I have a ready access point for all that boils in the deep of the collective unconscious. I no longer fear the dark, metaphorically speaking. When you can look a demon in the eye, unafraid, it transforms into a creative muse. As painful as it was to conquer, I wouldn't trade my Moon-Pluto square for anything.
 

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SecretGarden

Well-known member
i have moon/pluto conjunction in scorpio and everything you wrote about this aspect is true for me!!! the most of all i`m afraid of my emotions, only God and i know what and how i feel and nobody else, i have almost perfect control over my emotional reactions and expressions but inside....it`s HELL. it`s so hard when you find yourself unable to forget and even when i think i`ve forgiven every time i get the chance to hurt that person(who caused me suffer) i do it!!!
my childhood? i`d never wish it to anybody. i`ve always felt lonely, and cried much!!...


Tamara, I'm very sorry you've had such a negative experience with this aspect. :(

I also have Moon conjunct Pluto in Scorpio. My childhood home life was ideal. My mother and father are not divorced and were both around and loved me very much. They did everything for their kids and always put us first. I was made fun of a lot as a middle school student because of my physical appearance, but by high school it was better, and now things have completely changed.

I'm writing this because I think this aspect is very negatively received, and while I understand that it's considered a difficult position, not everyone with Moon in Scorpio or Moon conjunct Pluto in Scorpio has a bad childhood or was abused. The emotional intensity of this position may be difficult for some, but I personally wouldn't change it for anything else. I attribute the ability to see through people, and though any situation, to this position. :)
 

Element

Well-known member
I have Sun and Moon both square Pluto. Not to mention I'm a Cancer Sun so the Moon is the dispositor of my Sun. I also have a balsamic Moon and I'm a Scorpio rising. To make things even more fun I also have Mars (the traditional ruler of Scorpio) inconjunct Pluto.

I did have a pretty hard childhood but I guess there's others who have had it worse. My relationship with my mother was actually pretty decent in my earliest years but we grew apart more after her and my father divorced when I was about five years old. Near the middle of my teenage years she simply wasn't there. She spent all her free time with her wealthy boyfriend who didn't want me around. She would be gone for weeks at time. They would travel all over the country together on art tours. On occasion she would show up at the house with a few groceries but usually would leave again right away. We even talked about putting me up for adoption when I was 16 years old. In the end she sent me to live with my aunt. Our relationship has now ended. I have not spoken to her since February of 2008 and at this time I have no intention of ever speaking to her again.
 
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virgo18

Well-known member
If I could have the ability to disappear only one aspect of my chart... will be only that one. Its really not a nice placement for me.

It makes me do jealousy scenes that later I feel embarrassed. Its like a constant fear to loose stability builded since childhood. I always think people want to take advantage of me in spite they are not... and I am so moody as hell.
 

Flapjacks

Well-known member
I eventually had to descend into the Hell of my unconscious and confront my rage directly before I could become my own person or even hold down a job. The displaced rage robbed me of all my get-up-and-go.

It eventually also became necessary for me to experience a deep break with my parents. I left the religion I was raised in (significant because religion and spirituality were my mother's primary means of control over me) and moved from California to Texas. I barely spoke to my parents for five years (their choice more than mine), and only visited home once (at my own instigation and I wasn't welcome). The alienation hurt terribly, but in the end was entirely necessary.

Now, I feel like all the rage and hurt have been purged from me and I'm left with the gifts of the Pluto-Moon aspect. I have a deep fascination with human motivation. I have strong intuition. I understand the relationship between growth and pain. Being an artist/writer, I have a ready access point for all that boils in the deep of the collective unconscious. I no longer fear the dark, metaphorically speaking. When you can look a demon in the eye, unafraid, it transforms into a creative muse. As painful as it was to conquer, I wouldn't trade my Moon-Pluto square for anything.

I think this encapsulates the potential of the Moon hard aspect to Pluto, especially a square and with heavy Saturn influence. These three together symbolize, to me, a complete enslavement/powerlessness involving the feminine in some form that must be conquered in one's own psyche, and the experience severed in order to heal from it. People with this aspect, I believe, have an enormous emotional capacity.

Coyote, do you know of the time that things felt the worst for you in this experience? I'm wondering if you had any major transits to Pluto/Moon/Saturn during that time.

My experience was similar in tone to coyote's. I broke from religious doctrine due to a woman who tried to murder my mother when I was 14, and then hid behind religion to convince others of her innocence, which left me completely powerless and awestruck that I couldn't protect my mother or myself from her... like a bad horror movie. After the physical danger was over, I had to confront my own internalized connection to the woman, what she produced in me; any fraction of insanity, violence or enslavement to myself, and then destroy it to come out a completely new person. That experience literally broke my mind and I rebuilt it from scratch (not to mention what my mother went through).

Of course, this is only one experience that seems to be dealing with a Moon/Pluto aspect. I also had an alcoholic ex-con stepfather who was a Scorpio Sun with a Cancer Moon (my mum seems to attract these things...), dealt with "lunatics" in the underbelly of society, along with prostitutes, drug addicts, the sick, homeless and impoverished, the emotionally damaged and physically abused.

I was made powerless by the psychiatric industry who drugged me up by the time I was 10 years old for depression. Who drugs a 10 year old who went through their mother's divorce with a violent stepfather after moving all over the country to keep him from being arrested? Who tells the child that their brain is the problem because they feel "sad and anxious" afterwards, and then uses them as a guinea pig for all the new antidepressants on the market (some now outlawed) to the point the child starts to twitch and spasm? Who does that to a child?

Obviously I still have some stuff to get over.... I also have cried a lot, and yes sometimes in school (whenever I was actually in school).

I have Moon in 9th house Capricorn square Pluto in 6th house Scorpio (also Sun in 3rd house Cancer square Pluto and opposed Moon, and Mercury in 3rd house Leo square Pluto).
 

Pepperpot

Well-known member
Interesting, very interseting. I have moon conjunct pluto in 11th in Libra. Hence it has taken me 32 years to make a descison on this one!!:tongue:

I too have had my fair share of crying, but I do it alone. I have problems showing my feelings beacuse of a fear that other people would see it as a weakness and take advantage of my true emotional nature. Yet I have problems controlling some of my emotions; saddness and frustration, others I have control over (or i thought I did), denying them any outlet at all.

I have a good relationship with my mother (which takes a lot of effort on my part) but we have resvered roles. I have always been the parent looking out for my mother, always wanting to protect her. I put this down to my early childhood which was anything but stable!!
It is only recently that I have acknowledge that although my mother allows my to swap roles with her, she also wants to control me wish she did with great ease untill she fell of the very high pedestal I placed her on!!

After much researh (which will be forever ongoing) on the web and astrology forums I am now beginging to accept my hades moon which gives us all who posses it great inner strength when we learn to handle it's power and accept it.

Just my experinece with this it.

:tongue::andy::tongue:
 

Ruka_5

Banned
Tamara, I'm very sorry you've had such a negative experience with this aspect. :(

I also have Moon conjunct Pluto in Scorpio. My childhood home life was ideal. My mother and father are not divorced and were both around and loved me very much. They did everything for their kids and always put us first. I was made fun of a lot as a middle school student because of my physical appearance, but by high school it was better, and now things have completely changed.

I'm writing this because I think this aspect is very negatively received, and while I understand that it's considered a difficult position, not everyone with Moon in Scorpio or Moon conjunct Pluto in Scorpio has a bad childhood or was abused. The emotional intensity of this position may be difficult for some, but I personally wouldn't change it for anything else. I attribute the ability to see through people, and though any situation, to this position. :)


...Exactly. I really wish people who read astrology books would stop taking that as fact.That's never been my personal experience and when I mention that, I've actually had people tell me that I must be repressing some kind of abuse or mom issues, because I have Moon-Pluto. :roll:
 

LovelyMissAries

Well-known member
Can Moon opposition (or square) Pluto give the native a sensual disposition without meaning to? What I mean is, does this placement give someone a more intense sexual aura than others? I have this placement with my Taurus moon in the 11th opposing Pluto in Scorpio in the 5th. It's just an idea but numerous friends tell me I give off the impression I've been around the block a few times when it's the exact opposite. Men also seem initially interested in sex with me (strangers no less. Gross.) vs. getting to know me like the normal way of courting someone. Just wondering although it may seem out of left field.
 

Ruka_5

Banned
Can Moon opposition (or square) Pluto give the native a sensual disposition without meaning to? What I mean is, does this placement give someone a more intense sexual aura than others? I have this placement with my Taurus moon in the 11th opposing Pluto in Scorpio in the 5th. It's just an idea but numerous friends tell me I give off the impression I've been around the block a few times when it's the exact opposite. Men also seem initially interested in sex with me (strangers no less. Gross.) vs. getting to know me like the normal way of courting someone. Just wondering although it may seem out of left field.


There may be something to that, actually. I don't have them squared or in opposition, but I've had men I don't know come up to me and actually ask me if they could sleep with me for one night, and they didn't seem to at all feel that what they were saying to me was inappropriate.

On an astrology website - I forget which one but it's somewhat well-known, it goes into describing all the ascendants - one of the first things they say about Scorpio ascendants is that they tend to give off strong sexual energy and that a lot of times they'll be approached in a similar manner. So I think it's not necessarily that it's the moon-pluto specifically, but more about having strong Plutonic/Scorpionic energy in general in a chart.
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
Can Moon opposition (or square) Pluto give the native a sensual disposition without meaning to? What I mean is, does this placement give someone a more intense sexual aura than others? I have this placement with my Taurus moon in the 11th opposing Pluto in Scorpio in the 5th. It's just an idea but numerous friends tell me I give off the impression I've been around the block a few times when it's the exact opposite. Men also seem initially interested in sex with me (strangers no less. Gross.) vs. getting to know me like the normal way of courting someone. Just wondering although it may seem out of left field.

As i have Moon conjunct MC in Taurus from the 9th side, Square Pluto in the 12th in Leo conjunct ASC ,Square Saturn in the 3rd in Scorpio Conjunct IC and opposite Moon.The Moon Pluto Saturn Tsquare has been the major difficulty in my life,Especially as it is projected on females as i'm a male,And Pluto being in the 12th (Hidden enemies)I didnt see it coming :sad:,Many of the women i've had difficulties with have also had Strong aspects with moon or Pluto,some similar like Scorpionic variants etc,And as you say is it possible for 'some' women with Moon /Pluto hard aspects to be considered to be using Sexuality?...well from my biased experience its undeniable.Though as its the Moon for me the sexual expression is more from an 'emotional' stance.
But as in the past I used to take it personal, I now realise that these women who used their sexuality or emotion on me were just as unconsciously motivated as I was.Nowadays if a woman takes an interest in me,sexually or otherwise, I immediately need to know if there are any strong Scorpio, Pluto,Moon configurations in their natal charts,and if there is I run like Forest Gump,cos "life isn't like a box of chocolates" for some,and its better not to touch.:)
But seriously, I expect more sexual Drive or manipulation from Venus Pluto aspects in females and Mars Pluto aspects in males.Though I have known strong Scorpionic women who can operate through Pluto Mars configurations to get what they desire,And males with Pluto Venus configurations who play poor me games etc to get their females, Neither is common,but it is becoming more common as females take on more power in society and males less power.
 

Inconjunct

Well-known member
...Exactly. I really wish people who read astrology books would stop taking that as fact.That's never been my personal experience and when I mention that, I've actually had people tell me that I must be repressing some kind of abuse or mom issues, because I have Moon-Pluto. :roll:

I have the Moon in Scorpio, and in some house systems it's in the 8th. My mum was a wonderful woman, I had as good a childhood as mum and dad could manage and I miss her every day.

However, one of the more sensible interpretations of this placement I read was that it could mean your mum was a powerful, charismatic individual (mine was, she had an intense emotional side to her and an enormous amount of love to give to anyone who needed it) but also (8th house influence) that they were dealing with some family baggage. My mum's dad died when she was a kid, and I think that was the emotional inheritance she was carrying around with her and which indirectly affected me.
 

LovelyMissAries

Well-known member
There may be something to that, actually. I don't have them squared or in opposition, but I've had men I don't know come up to me and actually ask me if they could sleep with me for one night, and they didn't seem to at all feel that what they were saying to me was inappropriate.

On an astrology website - I forget which one but it's somewhat well-known, it goes into describing all the ascendants - one of the first things they say about Scorpio ascendants is that they tend to give off strong sexual energy and that a lot of times they'll be approached in a similar manner. So I think it's not necessarily that it's the moon-pluto specifically, but more about having strong Plutonic/Scorpionic energy in general in a chart.

Isn't it the most insulting thing ever? They really think they're being flattering too. Ugh. I have Gemini asc. In no way is that as sensual or sexy as a Scorpio ASC. However, I do have Pluto in Scorpio as a singleton planet in my 5th house so perhaps what you say applies there?
 

LovelyMissAries

Well-known member
The Moon Pluto Saturn Tsquare has been the major difficulty in my life, especially as it is projected on females and i'm a male.
Yeesh.
And as you say is it possible for 'some' women with Moon /Pluto hard aspects to be considered to be using Sexuality?
Not using their sexuality to manipulate. That's a very conscious and deliberate thing. I'm asking if the Moon opp. Pluto would give someone a sexier vibe. To put it bluntly, make them seem, look more promiscuous than they really are. This would be something the native isn't provoking on their own but something people assume about them. Ruka had a point that it probably has to do with the ASC (makes sens) and some other elements in a chart.

I immediately need to know if there are any strong Scorpio, Pluto,Moon configurations in their natal charts and if there is I run like Forest Gump,cos "life isn't like a box of chocolates" for some,and its better not to touch.:)
Eh, they're not all bad. I'm friends with a lot of Scorpios and I think we bond (Aries and Scorpios) because we're both misunderstood signs... which may have something to do with the fact we're both ruled by Mars, but I digress. My point is not all Moon-Pluto configurations or Scorpio configurations are bad. You'll probably get told that over and over again here, haha.

And males with Pluto Venus configurations who play poor me games etc to get their females,

I've experienced this and nothing loses my respect faster than deliberate pity parties!!!
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
Before i say what I'm about to say, I'm very sorry,its not my intention to be irritating or finger pointing,BUT,if you have a Moon Pluto conjunction,square,opposition,or other hard aspects between these 2 planets you need to learn about 'PROJECTION',Pluto does not generally operate consciously in the majority of people,The energy is generally projected subconsciously onto a suitable receiver who has connected qualities to the projector.
This applies to all of the outer planets energies,Meaning Pluto, Neptune and Uranus in natal hard aspect to a personal planet.
In the case of Pluto this shows commonly as Subconscious behaviour centring around Manipulation.,Coercion and Control.
The projector is generally unconscious of doing this.If they were aware of this behaviour I'm sure they would stop it immediately.There is no blame intended in these statements.
So if you have one of these configurations in your natal chart and you keep attracting a certain type of irritating behaviour from others like sexual harassment you need to ask yourself what you might be projecting Subconsciously that makes you a magnet for these types of people who in them selves are also locked into subconscious Plutonic manipulative behaviour.
As an example.Pluto Square Moon people will often project emotional vulnerability,or excessive emotional obsessive behaviour.
To quote Betty Lundstead,From:'Astrological insights into personality':
"In order to channel this energy for constructive use,The formation of the original pattern must be consciously understood.The mother of this individual needs to manipulate her universe ;she controls her husband,family,friends and neighbours,and this child assumes her response is "normal".The area of emotional control can be determined more fully by the house placements and signs involved in the square.In order to be free of oppressive energy, this person needs to understand how he imitates his mother in his own personal life,How he manipulates those around him,and the manner in which he attempts to control others."......unquote.
If you have one end of this square in the 12th house then it will operate even more unconsciously/subconsciously,You will become a magnet for people who you really despise but rarely suspect it has a connection to your own behaviour,Most likely some of these people will have a karmic connection to you and will even turn out to be secret enemies.
Take it from me,watch yourself,know yourself, and you will be less of a magnet to unendurable behaviour from others.

And sorry again for being a pain :)
 

Ruka_5

Banned
I have the Moon in Scorpio, and in some house systems it's in the 8th. My mum was a wonderful woman, I had as good a childhood as mum and dad could manage and I miss her every day.

However, one of the more sensible interpretations of this placement I read was that it could mean your mum was a powerful, charismatic individual (mine was, she had an intense emotional side to her and an enormous amount of love to give to anyone who needed it) but also (8th house influence) that they were dealing with some family baggage. My mum's dad died when she was a kid, and I think that was the emotional inheritance she was carrying around with her and which indirectly affected me.

Can you remember where you read that interpretation? It's spot on; my mother was a hell of a woman. Just amazing. I've said it once and I'll say it again - I actually feel spoiled (and blessed) that I got her as a mother; she was extraordinary.

Isn't it the most insulting thing ever? They really think they're being flattering too. Ugh. I have Gemini asc. In no way is that as sensual or sexy as a Scorpio ASC. However, I do have Pluto in Scorpio as a singleton planet in my 5th house so perhaps what you say applies there?

This is exactly what I'm saying, that I think people with Scorpio or Pluto prominent in their charts in any way, just attract this stuff. I think it's something about Scorpionic/Plutonic energy that other people interpret as sexual for whatever reason. I don't buy that it's something we 'project' onto others, at all - I've been approached like that when I was minding my own business and my thoughts were far away from sex, enough to know it's not me sending out signals.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
I have Moon square Pluto and let's just say I've had my share of crying... I didn't have an exceptionally tough upbringing, but depression would always creep up. A few things happened in my childhood but it's mostly depression that ruined my life. I honestly think my parents don't care about me, we live in the same house yet we don't talk a lot and I don't know how to relate to them. Even if I was crying in my room, they wouldn't want to help... Sorry if this seemed like I was complaining lol, but that's from my perspective of this aspect.
I can relate to that. It is a very heavy aspect that needs to be managed and addressed. I think it is that we are meant to toughen up emotionally as we never perceive help or support from family in particular. I determined not to rely on anyone emotionally and became quite a loner because of that. Again it depends on the aspects elsewhere and what area of the chart.....
 
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