military dictadorship inthe u.s.

Saintpaulia

Member
Re: Military dictatorship in the U.S.

New member here. Just finding my way around. Noticed this section of the website and within that this thread. It's a bit old now (last post appears to be early January), so maybe my words will fall on not just deaf ears, but no ears at all!

"Still write it down, it might be read
nothing's better left unsaid
only sometimes, still no doubt
it's hard to see, it all works out" - Keith Reid, 1968

Well, so after reading the thread on "preparing for the Uranus-Pluto square" in World Astrology, I got the impression that this was once again nothing but another astrology site in which the members were blind to what's going on socio-politically. It seemed that their main response to the Uranus-Pluto square was personal.​

In my opinion that is precisely the wrong response. The trans-Saturnian planets are not about individuals per se. They are collective planets, or as Rudhyar put it, planets of the collective unconscious. This square is going to be active on a global scale, not just in some person's natal chart!​

And then I found this thread. Gosh, here's a thread on the military dictatorship in the U.S. So some people do get it. Cool. Look, I understand the responses above by some members, who sort of poo-pooed the whole idea as some sort of conspiracy theory. My view is that they simply suffer from a very common condition called 'normalcy bias'. They cannot conceive of a future which isn't more or less like the recent past.​

By the way, the best quote I've read about conspiracy theories is this one: [FONT=garamond, new york, times, serif]"The only people who call conspiracies 'theories' are the conspirators." Jay Weidner. Anyone who does not believe that there are conspiracies doesn't understand the meaning of the word. All a conspiracy is, is when two or more individuals get together in secret to plan some course of action - period. [/FONT]

What we are seeing today in the West, and particularly in the English-speaking world, is, for lack of a better word, a vast "neo-conservative" conspiracy to create a World government with a single World currency (money) and a World army. And there are some who would say, 'Well what's wrong with that?'. They have visions of Peace amongst nations, etc. It never seems to occur to them that if such fundamental systems were put under the control of a single authority, the result would be tyranny on the grandest of scales.

However, I do not believe that what we have is a military dictatorship in the U.S. The U.S. military is just a tool, one of many, being used by the dictatorship. The dictatorship is fascistic in that the powers in control of it are corporations and central banks. In other words the government is "owned". It is no longer of the People. It is no longer a government under Law.

I believe that this dictatorship is symbolized by Pluto in Capricorn. Pluto is the urge to power and Capricorn is the epitome of the State as a modus operandi. In its worst form the Sign Capricorn can be symbolic of the collective over the individual, which is totalitarianism. Of course the most famous analysis of this condition was George Orwell's 1984.

Hopefullly (for all of us, even those who are still blithely complacent in their ignorance), Uranus is the agent of deliverance; he is the unquenchable thirst of the individual for autonomy and liberty. Man was not made to be a serf or slave to some nameless, impersonal collective excercising unlimited power.
 
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Mark

Well-known member
Thank you, Saintpaulia, for that wonderfully reasonable post. It's nice to see that self-evident fact still means something to someone. :innocent:
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Did any of you see the film Beautiful Mind?

Yes, I did...and the gent still produced a 'solution' that was flawed.
He never considered the feelings of the 'Pretty Girl', did he?
No, he didn't. What He was concerned about was, [excuse me for being so blunt..but I don't pull punches when such a 'punch' is called for.] getting himself and his 'mates'...'laid'.
The correct solution...IMHO...of course...would have been to gotten another gent to join their own entourage...a gentleman as equally good looking and charming as the 'Pretty Blonde' [as she was portrayed in the movie] was pretty.
Then...and only then, should they have proceeded as they did.
We have had over 50 years of economic, political policies based on this flawed reasoning, and policies of risk assessment and compensation as they pertain to the Insurance business.
Think about this. It is the correct solution. I figured it out sometime around 2003...a year or two after I saw the movie. I've brought this to the attention of a couple of people that are rather well qualified to make a judgement...or at least assess and state an informed and educated opinion... and they agree with me. Too bad I'm not a mathematician...I would write it as an equation and present it.

@Saintpaulia. The trans-Saturnian planets do affect mass society and personal astrology. All the Planets do, for that matter...just because they move at a slower pace through the degrees of the zodiac doesn't alter or change the 'laws' by which all Planets are subject to or that Humankind is affected any differently by them. I know this from my own personal experience and nearly 30 years of observation. The Moons Nodes are also of the cause and concern of affect as to society and individuals.
Maybe the members that you speak of aren't informed as to the world condition at the present and are consciously restraining themselves [which is a good rule to follow..if you're ignorant of a topic it's best to keep silent.] or possibly that isn't any concern to them...or even possibly they just din't have the time or inclination to get into it.
This mis-understanding of those outer planets affect of, either being absent, or only relevant to 'Mundane' matters, is caused by the 'Trads' [as we call them here bouts..], and as to the 'Mundane issue, it's their desperate and rather amusing* desperation to retain some sort of 'perceived' hierarchy of positioning on some ladder or pedestal of authoritative recognition/public esteem that they imagine themselves to so be on top of.... The majority of the most tenacious of them, it seems to me that they, appear to actually be having some internal struggle within themselves to have to even admit that there are planets beyond Saturn that weren't 'known' of from the times their precious 'Trad.' astrology...ahem...'Developed' during.

*I find it rather amusing, that is to say. [but also it gets tedious and annoying after years of being subjected to it...]
 
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Saintpaulia

Member
Was 'military dictatorship in the U.S.'

Perhaps a clarification is called for. I did not mean to imply that the trans-Saturnian planets do not operate within an individual’s natal chart. The misunderstood passage seems to be “The trans-Saturnian planets are not about individuals per se. They are collective planets, or as Rudhyar put it, planets of the collective unconscious. This square is going to be active on a global scale, not just in some person's natal chart!”

Note the qualifications of ‘per se’ and ‘not just’. Some of the strangely heated replies to my post must have missed this.

Of course Uranus, Neptune and Pluto operate in the natal chart. But they do so differently from the anciently recognized seven. Being outside of Saturn’s ‘ring-pass-not’, they are not part of the personal ego structure which is contained by Saturn. Hence Saturn’s association with limits. This is why the trans-Saturnian planets are also sometimes called “trans-personal”.

Consequently, if an individual has, say, Uranus very strong in their chart, they will be very definitely influenced by Uranian currents within the greater World at large. The issues which this Uranus would bring to the individual’s chart would not be of a personal nature, but rather would be of greater social, collective issues. More than his/her peers without such a Uranus, this person would be more affected by revolutions in consciousness which are operating throughout a given society.

I hope this clears up any unfortunate misunderstandings.
 

Mark

Well-known member
I recall reading things quite similar in Rudhyar's writings. Saturn functions like the skin of the body, separating the "heavy inside" from the "lighter outside." Rudhyar also assumes two "energetic flows" in the solar system (which I find to be a needed and justified realisation). One flow comes outward from the Sun, passing the inner planets first. Another flow comes from the centre of the galaxy (Sgr A*) and flows toward the Sun. I would postulate, though I don't know if Rudhyar would agree, that each star (particularly Arcturus) would have its own flow toward the Sun. This separates the inner solar system from the outer solar system, just as the inner person is separated from the outer person. Saturn hereby functions as the dweller on the threshold; the flaming sword at the gate; that part of yourself which you must befriend, but scares the hell out of you.
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
I recall reading things quite similar in Rudhyar's writings. Saturn functions like the skin of the body, separating the "heavy inside" from the "lighter outside." Rudhyar also assumes two "energetic flows" in the solar system (which I find to be a needed and justified realisation). One flow comes outward from the Sun, passing the inner planets first. Another flow comes from the centre of the galaxy (Sgr A*) and flows toward the Sun. I would postulate, though I don't know if Rudhyar would agree, that each star (particularly Arcturus) would have its own flow toward the Sun. This separates the inner solar system from the outer solar system, just as the inner person is separated from the outer person. Saturn hereby functions as the dweller on the threshold; the flaming sword at the gate; that part of yourself which you must befriend, but scares the hell out of you.

Mark, would you happen to recall which book of Rudyar's you get that fro?. It's more or less what I noted in a post at actastrology to Michael Ealrlwine as to influences flowing outward from the Sun...I haven't read all of Rudhyar's works...in truth more like a 'relatively' small amount. But then He wtote so many books and not all on Astrology.

@Saintpaulia. I don't know gal, I beg to differ.
| I have an extremely powerful Uranus in my chart and also Neptune and Pluto for that matter.
The effecty of Uranus in sole occupancy of my 8th house tine my Asc. and sextile my Sun, square my Venus and a Saturn/Neptune conj. ['T'-Square] [Jeez...I never realized until this very moment that I have a sextile YOD to my natal Venus via Lilith and my Asc. hmmmmmm....interesting..but I digress]
I find that from what I do know of Uranus' influence on me that it is very much a part of my identity...and I assume part of the make-up of my 'ego' as well.

The strong concern about my 'Dark Side'...in fact a number of dreams that would be interpreted as such. [my brother is quite good at dream interpretation...but then He's a Pisces also]].] The idea that I have always sensed deep within my self that I may even control the time of my death...or the thought that I may somehow escape it altogether..,as my good friend, 'Suryakant', is alleged to have done in a prior incarnation [it is said the he was given ascension into Heaven without to having undergone death].

Remember that Uranus' orbit is 84 years...exactly one expected life span. That should indicate to us that it is in its' way to be of great personal influence. I find that it has been as such to me. Especially May 6, 2001...the exact day it conj. my nadir...it was the day I was evicted from my home. [a long story that leads to right up to this present moment.] I find it has been quite personally influential through out my life as a matter of fact...but then even the Moons Node was MOST CONSPICUOUSLY in affect on Dec. 22, 2005the very day I gave presentation on AM radio KOA out of Denver, Colo. on the Rick Barber program on the natal chart I claim [propose] is that of Yeshua/Jesus and how the Sabian Symbols are the determinate factor in achieving that and how the symbols do indicate those matters and affect given by Rudhyar in his book on the Symbols. this is because the Node was in the 10th degree of Aries that day...the Sabian Symbol for that is:[Rudhyar] "A TEACHER GIVES NEW SYMBOLIC FORMS TO TRADITIONAL IMAGES."
but then you should know and understand that the Sabian Symbol for my natal Uranus at the 16th degree of Cancer is:[ibid.]
" A MAN STUDYING A MANDALA IN FRONT OF HIM, WITH THE HELP OF A VERY ANCIENT BOOK." ...keeping in mind that the name of Rudhyar's book on the Sabians is "An Astrological Mandalla"...
I could give you examples of how my natal Pluto and Neptune Sabians have the same personal type of affect. [or is it effect...as per we are on the subject of psychological matters and that's where the use of these two words gets tricky...they can shift places...adjective - noun...noun - adjective...but again, I digress.]
Then again I'm said to be a most spiritually oriented and progressed soul and that may have some bearing on this matter [and not to be egotistical about this...I would prefer not having to ever state such a thing again...but it is just what is...Mark will understand my reason for stating such...possibly as to being qualified to make such a statement...at least for the reason why I would make such a statement, anyways.].

As to Neptune and Pluto and their relationship to me...I'll leave that alone for awhile to give it some more thought...they have certainly had their affect on me...I just can't say at this moment how personal ...except as to Plutos' recent coj. of my Part of Intelligence ...which was the same aformentioned night I gave the radio broadcast...[as it had been there quite a while and would remain sometime after].

Pluto also conj. my, so called, Part of Transformation @ 28* Sag. 24' which did affect me. [and as I was now again put in the position of confronting this 'Part/Lot' of which I don't care for the appellation given it. It has given me a chance to finally 'nail it down', so to speak, I believe. As the Part of Transformation is Asc. + Uranus - Mars and Pluto is the Planet of Transformation...this 'Lot' shouldn't be termed 'Transformative' but rather a form of 'Informative'...as to Uranus being the Higher octave of Mercury and as I discussed the Part of Imagination which involve Uranus and not Neptune and decide that it should rather be termed the Part of Intuition...in the case of the subject at hand I 'm getting the impression that it should be named the Part of Intuitive Awareness of Being...in that an understanding of your 'Higher' self does create something of a 'transformation' with in one self...I'll leave that as it stands here and start a discussion on that in the Degree Symbols sub forum...possibly in my existing thread on Astrological parts in ongoing study.].

Pluto just did conj. my Part of Hyleg also, at 06* Cap. 07'...I would say it had its affect there too...but as the understanding of that particular Lot is still being mulled over by myself...I 'm not going to try to be specific about it as of yet.
As Pluto conj. my Part of Commerce @ 05* Sag. 00' I would say it 'ripped me a new one' ...to be very, very blunt...oh yes it did...OH YES IT DID...THANK YOU!!! [ WOW, man, I hadn't considered that one before...I must say...this is turning into a most interesting thread...!...thanks gang!].
...and in late 1975 Pluto conj. that 'Lot' that I termed Innocence [Asc. + Merc. - Mars] and it was the closure of my 'childhood' at that time....[wow, another one I hadn't given consideration or thought to...most interesting...Superb Thread...!!!! 5 Stars...!!!!!...for me anyways...]

Well, there you have it...I'm going to fix me so breakfast now...or a second one...I just got up {an hour ago} having gone to bed around 8 AM this morning and it's nearly 5 PM now...back later, ya' all.
ptv



my chart...
 

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piercethevale

Well-known member
More Very Discouraging News...

http://open.salon.com/blog/watching...wing_occupy_hr_347_makes_free_speech_a_felony

MARCH 1, 2012 12:33PM
"Outlawing Occupy: H.R. 347 Makes Free Speech A Felony."

[an excerpt]
"...Obviously aimed at the Occupy Movement, these modifications [H.R. 347, passed by a vote of 399 to 3] to U.S. Code Title 18 Section 1752 will seriously diminish the right of American citizens to petition their Government for a redress of grievances by outlawing protests where key government officials or other VIP's may be nearby. Federal law enforcement agents will be empowered to bring these charges against Americans engaged in political protests anywhere in the country, and violators will face criminal penalties that include imprisonment for up to 10 years...."

Welcome to Fourth Reich Amerika...
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
More Very Discouraging News...
http://open.salon.com/blog/watching...wing_occupy_hr_347_makes_free_speech_a_felony

MARCH 1, 2012 12:33PM
"Outlawing Occupy: H.R. 347 Makes Free Speech A Felony."

[an excerpt]

"...Obviously aimed at the Occupy Movement, these modifications [H.R. 347, passed by a vote of 399 to 3] to U.S. Code Title 18 Section 1752 will seriously diminish the right of American citizens to petition their Government for a redress of grievances by outlawing protests where key government officials or other VIP's may be nearby. Federal law enforcement agents will be empowered to bring these charges against Americans engaged in political protests anywhere in the country, and violators will face criminal penalties that include imprisonment for up to 10 years...."

Welcome to Fourth Reich Amerika..
.
Indeed. Reminiscent of The Borg methinks... :smile: (“Resistance is Futile”) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZEJ4OJTgg8

Our brains like to keep us safe. Our “reptilian brains” are designed for survival - To keep us in the comfort zone of the known.

e.g. The following common knowledge folk warning/story illustrates the idea:

We cannot just throw a frog into a pot of hot water or he’ll jump out. So how to cook the frog?

One degree at a time!


Lizard-brain puts up a small fight, but generally stays in the pot. Put the frog in cold water and raise the temperature EVER so slowly, the gradual warming will make the frog doze happily... in fact the frog gradually cooks to death without ever waking up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Indeed. Reminiscent of The Borg methinks... :smile: (“Resistance is Futile”) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZEJ4OJTgg8

Our brains like to keep us safe. Our “reptilian brains” are designed for survival - To keep us in the comfort zone of the known.

e.g. The following common knowledge folk warning/story illustrates the idea:

We cannot just throw a frog into a pot of hot water or he’ll jump out. So how to cook the frog?

One degree at a time!
:lol::lol::lol:

Lizard-brain puts up a small fight, but generally stays in the pot. Put the frog in cold water and raise the temperature EVER so slowly, the gradual warming will make the frog doze happily... in fact the frog gradually cooks to death without ever waking up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
:

...WOW....DEJA-V00D00....!:sideways::surprised::andy:
...trying to 'Boil a Frog'...!?!?...where else have I heard that expression in the last 48 hours?...[I'm serious..I've heard that or read it somewhere in the last two or three days...but have no recollection of ever hearing it used before...!?!]

Btw. As I am ever wont to change that 'Borg' saying [Roddenbury's Pithy Pooh]: 'Resistance is futile, your @$$ will be eliminated."
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
:

...WOW....DEJA-V00D00....!:sideways::surprised::andy:
...trying to 'Boil a Frog'...!?!?...where else have I heard that expression in the last 48 hours?...[I'm serious..I've heard that or read it somewhere in the last two or three days...but have no recollection of ever hearing it used before...!?!]

Btw. As I am ever wont to change that 'Borg' saying [Roddenbury's Pithy Pooh]: 'Resistance is futile, your @$$ will be eliminated."
QUOTE: "Seriously? We helped fight WWII to escape this kind of oppression. Remember Hitler? Remember how people would "disappear" and were sent to DEATH CAMPS?... And for all of you who think, "Not gonna happen," or "YEAH! LETS TAKE IT TO THE COMMENTS!" big load that's gonna do. How are 'YouTube comment wars' going to change the face of this country?

Like a wise man once said, "Speak up today, because tomorrow you might not have a voice." :smile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxa_gglW6oE
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
QUOTE: "Seriously? We helped fight WWII to escape this kind of oppression. Remember Hitler? Remember how people would "disappear" and were sent to DEATH CAMPS?... And for all of you who think, "Not gonna happen," or "YEAH! LETS TAKE IT TO THE COMMENTS!" big load that's gonna do. How are 'YouTube comment wars' going to change the face of this country?

Like a wise man once said, "Speak up today, because tomorrow you might not have a voice." :smile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxa_gglW6oE

...I'm not sure if this was intended/directed at Moi?

...if so, I was merely attempting to say, and be comical at the same time,... "Assimilate or Eliminate", what's the difference, and which would you chose, given a choice?
They are just one and the same as far as I'm concerned...
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
...I'm not sure if this was intended/directed at Moi?
mais non! sans doute, non! I merely quoted the words accompanying the video - scroll down and you notice them :smile:
....if so, I was merely attempting to say, and be comical at the same time,... "Assimilate or Eliminate", what's the difference, and which would you chose, given a choice?
They are just one and the same as far as I'm concerned...
btw "Borg Assimilation Process" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbEi1isW3kQ&feature=related
History of the money supply via "The Wizard of Oz" monetary allegory http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
...hmmmm, I think the 'States' really need a revival [resurrection, actually] of the "Dil Pickle Club', myself...
...and as to 'This Sophism', 'That Sophism' or 'The-sophism'... I could, most definitely, do without any more 'sophisms''... YET!.!..!...!

... 'Soapboxism' ...!!!!! ...I wouldn't mind seeing a comeback of the

The 'Dil Pickle Club'.... where 'Grass roots' met 'Town Square'...Where the poet, the painter, the piper, the seer, the clerk, the common man, the caretakers and the aristocrats all did gather, and freely and openly discuss, 'The Issues' of their day...

...maybe even a 'Dil Pickle Party"...yeah, but....they would have to charge 'Dues'...Dues to be a registered Dil...:pinched::annoyed:

...
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
I had just gotten finished remarking to some FB friends about Reagan when He was Governor of Calif and the student protests at USF and at Peoples Park, in
Berkeley, Calif.
As to USF, he said about the student sit-in on campus, "If it's a bloodbath they want, lets give it to them!"
He lauded the police for the way 'they handled' the situation with the Peoples Park...in which people were shot and killed by the police [most only remember Ohio State from those days....] over a 'vegetable garden, they had planted in an abandoned lot in mid city.
I remarked; "They were Kids for Christ's sake..."

Not 10 seconds later ..this link goes up ...

"Police Unleash Attack Dogs, Suspend Students for "Thought Crimes" After Students Protest Conditions at School."
http://www.alternet.org/newsandview..._after_students_protest_conditions_at_school/

..and we're talking about a High School...
I can't believe this... I'm sickened...


THEY'RE KIDS FOR CHRIST'S SAKE...!!!

...your sons, daughters, nieces and nephews....
your neighbors...
my neighbors...
kids.
 
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