Mercury in Dignity and Debility

[siamese_dream]

I have Mercury in Gemini in the 11th house, opposite Saturn and Uranus, sextile Jupiter and MC, and conjunct Chiron.

I think that having the Saturn opposition can put a damper on my communicative abilities. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a total fog and completely miss what is going on. I also think that I'm sometimes unable to express myself clearly - unless I have what I want to say planned out, I tend to stumble over my words.

As for Mercury in Gemini itself - I enjoy this description from Astrodienst (astro.com)...
"[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your mind is very active, restless and fond of change. You may get bored easily, unless something stimulating comes along. Your desire for constant activity may make you appear extremely nervous and unstable, but what is happening is that you mentally process the world around you faster than most people.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif]One problem stemming from your desire for new knowledge and experience is that you may never really finish anything. Try to be disciplined enough to stay with one train of thought long enough to learn something from it."[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]


I am intellectually-oriented, scattered, curious, a very quick reader, and a great writer ...typical Gemini stuff.

 

[poshslob]

My Mercury is in Leo, which is technically in its fall. However, my Mercury doesn't feel debilitated at all.

Perhaps because it is in the 8th house, where is it is exalted by domicile since Pluto is exated by Leo.

 

[wilsontc]

Pisces, to posh

posh,

You said:

My Mercury is in Leo, which is technically in its fall.

Traditionally, Mercury in fall in Pisces, not in Leo. Personally, I have found Mercury in Pisces making a lot more sense as being the "fall" of Mercury energy.

Traditionally,

Tim

 

[Jenna Jupiter]

well, if they want to exalt mercury in aquarius can't see how it can be stoped (~grin).
I'm curious to how an aquarian mercury behaves in such exalted state though.
interesting. Does this somehow diminish virgo's exaltation of mercury?

And how do they justify it? Meaning, why have they decided that mercury is in an exalted state in aquarius, what reasoning is behind this?

aquarius, fixed, airy, masculine, ya know, the fixed signs hoard things & aquarius (ruler saturn) hoards knowledge .....
hmmmm, how does one think mentally in a fixed, exalted state? what is the precedent for this? and what about leo?

This would make mercury in fall in leo,,,,,,,the sun won't stand for it! nothing "falls" in his warm & generous sign. For he is the life giver, spirit of man, one who feeds and warms us and causes life to spring forth (though from a distance, get to close you get burned as mercury often does, but then he is of an Hot & dry one himself) and, lest anyone forget, The Authority.

Must have something to do with the age of aquarius.
ah well, wonder how they interpret it? it's amazing that anyone follows astrology with all the made up stuff out there, sigh.

zombie's did you say? ~grin


I'm sorry if you took offense, none was meant. I have so enjoyed this forum, but I see now that it is to new age for me and my traditional ways.
I shan't contradict nor correct again. It's all open, I see that now.

again, I apologize for not understanding/comprehending the specific genre of your system of dignity and debilities and will refrain from subjecting anyone to the old ways and reasons of assigning dignities and debilities, unless they ask of course.

Have Mercury in Aquarius in the Virgo house, house 6. It works quite good, but i'm VERY restless.

/JJ

 

[poshslob]

Re: Pisces, to posh

posh,

You said:


Traditionally, Mercury in fall in Pisces, not in Leo. Personally, I have found Mercury in Pisces making a lot more sense as being the "fall" of Mercury energy.

Traditionally,

Tim

I'm confused. Isn't Pisces the detriment of Mercury?

 

[wilsontc]

Pisces continued, to posh

posh,

You said:

I'm confused. Isn't Pisces the detriment of Mercury?

Yes, it is. Pisces is the detriment AND the fall of Mercury. That is why some people went around looking for a new detriment, so Pisces didn't do two things at once. However, I think Pisces works as a better "fall" than *Leo. Here is the same information on the web:
http://www.astrologycom.com/mercury.html

Having it both ways,

Tim

*Edited: original incorrectly read "Mercury"

 

[poshslob]

I can understand arguemnets make Mercury exalted in Aquarius. However, Leo being its fall in Mercury doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Psychotik]

what if you have mercury in sag, in 3rd house, in retrograde!?

 

[LittleMiss]

Wanted to share some thoughts and maybe hear others expiriences about this subject.
Beeing on this yourney of self discovery that getting to know my natal chart is, - I just noticed something the other day. I guess I've been aware of it before, but not quite on this level.

I have Mercury in Pisces and I realised that I often speak based on my subconsious mind. I ask questions or give responses based upon what is "floating around" in the room rather then from what is actually going on. And also often based on my emotions, also the deep almost hidden once. This make me sometimes say kind of strange things, maybe things that are not really fiting to the conversation. It is also a bit off and on how frequent I do this. I think, much due to my virgo ascendant, that I'm able to keep it on a reasonable level and I kind of see when people fall of, but... it's kind of weird anyway.

 

[David_K]

Well, Ive been thinking about this for long time now and I've come down to this conclusion: a planet cannot rule and exalt in the same sign. Have you ever thought about it? How can a planet exalt in a sign which it ALREADY rules? It doesnt make any sense to me :/
I believe that Mercury exalts in Aquarius and falls in Leo. Why? Because Ive noticed many times how rational thinking (Mercury) makes a good foundation to making scientifical breakthroughs (Anquarius) and how the same rational thinking can extinguish almost any kind of enthusiasm (Leo).

 

[BobZemco]

One of my daughters has mercury in pisces on her ascendant, boy does it work well! She spoke her first word very very early, (from memory around 5 months of age), and took to reading/speaking like a duck to water. I can't call her placement "in detriment", or "in fall", it would seem that an angular merc in pisces (or other well supported placements) can more than make up for the supposedly "weak" pisces position!.......upon reflection she was a rather quiet child until her merc/ascendant progressed into Aries, now she wont shut up !

Speech is governed by the first house, voice and vocal chords are governed by the second house. Communication by the third house.

Pisces is also a Mutable Sign. I dare say Mercury in Fall in Leo (a Fixed Sign) and the results could have been different, but again it would depend on the 2nd/3rd House and their rulers and placements, especially Aries and Taurus and their rulers.

 

[byjove]

One of my daughters has mercury in pisces on her ascendant, boy does it work well! She spoke her first word very very early, (from memory around 5 months of age), and took to reading/speaking like a duck to water. I can't call her placement "in detriment", or "in fall", it would seem that an angular merc in pisces (or other well supported placements) can more than make up for the supposedly "weak" pisces position!.......upon reflection she was a rather quiet child until her merc/ascendant progressed into Aries, now she wont shut up !

I can't tell you how useful and interesting this post is!

I've Mercury in Pisces exactly conjunct Pisces MC and trine Cancer AC. He also benefits from a 1 degree Uranus square and has no other aspects within reasonable orb.

This always baffled me! And I have received half positive and half negative feedback. The fact is, I do exhibit many of the Merc.-on-MC traits, and well, but it blends with the Pisces wave...:

- wrote poetry as a child, and won poetry competitions
- school debate team captain, debated nationally
- youth political leader, represented country internationally
- won university debate competitions, judged nationally

etc. etc. People seem to regard my Pisces Merc. as "inspirational", "wise beyond years" but the Cancer Rising emphasizing 3rd Virgo Moon mitigates this and I'm known for those traits just as much.

See the poetry mixed with serious politics? All in one! And I've a Pisces Venus opposite Virgo Moon just to confuse people a little more...

I can't imagine how much of the 'negative' traits of Merc. Pisces I must exhibit, but self-awareness is important to me. Oh, and as a child was DEFINITELY known as mischievous, well-fitted to the Mercury on MC. I was always doing crazy things (long long list) and laughing about it...

 

[byjove]

Hmm write a book? Nothing serious now...(not while so young, what could I have to teach/inform/enlighten about yet?) but fiction, definitely yes...

Another heavy Pisces trait - a love of fantasy (e.g. through film). I would love to write some supernatural/fantasy fiction, I adore the genre.

Also, does your daughter by any chance have small ears?! I have the smallest ears anyone has seen for an adult male, and I thought that must be Mercury? Maybe? I walk briskly too...and an avid love of music...and was also a bit of a dancing kid (preferably in private reflection, not show-off Leo-ish) and love to dance still.

These are very nice, relaxing activities that AREN'T apart of the difficult/negative Piscean tendencies. Any of this with your daughter?

 

[KayBug]

I have Mercury in Pisces Fall in it's ruling 3rd house. I had always thought this was a bad placement and contributed to my inability to get my messages across in the way I wanted them to come across, my lack of ability to retain what I read for testing in school and other drawbacks with communication and intellect which it probably does. Although I did learn to read and write before I ever started school I could not recite the alphabete in order until I learned the alphabet song which took me a while.

Now that I am older, past my 50's, I don't deal with learning schoolwork and I accept my communication skills for what they are so I don't find this placement to be bad for me. I actually enjoy it. I now enjoy reading books that keep me interested all the way through, couldn't tell you alot about it after I finish them so I'm glad I don't have to do book reports. I really enjoy my daydreaming and do it anytime I am doing a mindless job around the house. While I have really been trying hard to study some astrology lately I find myself reading one thing and then veering off to open another tab to explore something I just read in the previous material without finishing what I was reading in the first place. I do go back to that tab, save it to my favorites to explore it again later.

Do I sound confusing...yes. Are my communication skills any better...no. But I am finding that this is more me and what I like than what I use to see as a drawback. I think finding your own perspective about something decides if it's in Fall or not.

 

[dhundhun]

Although Mercury is considered to be exalted in Virgo, it can express its best in Acquarius. As if Mercury flows freely in Aquarius.

In Leo, sometimes Mercury can draw problems, because leo is related to power - e.g. being in power, or in company of powerful people. In this situation, one may have to have control over every word and every sentence comming out of mouth.

Usually, Mercury is not so free in Leo as it is in Aquarius.

 

[Sebastien Cheritte]

I believe that people relying too much on the mind are 'wishing to see' a fall and exaltation for this planet because they place so much emphasis on it, often when you want to see something, you do.

I feel safer with 2 millenia of hard study than a few decades of moody misinforms. Try to consider what age we're in!

 

[byjove]

I agree Sebastian, that we should definitely pay attention to the age of the knowledge we're re-considering. However, I think appreciating the age alone would simply mean we're conservative; not necessarily the wisest.

I also like to think that we have made some progress since ancient times. Also consider that many very old texts, despite their homage to good old knowledge, make sweeping statements; paraphrasing, I remember one text which simply said that Mercury in Pisces makes stupid men. This mirrors the house system conundrum; old vs new.

I'm curious by this change of status from being (Pisces) a place of fall and detriment (which I always thought was a unique and ridiculous feature).

So, do we lay out some of this arguement here then do a pole when enough points have been hit back and forth? Hmm

 

[Sebastien Cheritte]

I remember one text which simply said that Mercury in Pisces makes stupid men.

OMG, really? what inconsideration! My sister has Mercury in the 29* of Pisces, between the both of us, I haven't yet learned the dictionary,
whereas - she is one. of course, it's also conjunct Vesta
(inner self) at 0*, trine Jupiter 29* in Cancer & Merc. sextile MC at 28* in Capricorn... how do we interpret this concept now that there are so many other good placements too?? could it become balanced out with other positive influences?

But I having Mercury in Leo, recently discovered why it could be a bad thing.

All too often I over-color my speech (Leo) in such a way that it becomes so reflective of the sun (in 5th), that the speech itself is greatly overbearing ('smudging' the details) but wait... Mercury is in 6th, what now?? (i'm told i'm over-bearing and to loud). There's the real conundrum for me!
In the end, the point is made, but it could have been done with
a "less is more" concept.

I do consider myself progressive so I'll see Mercury in fall as an omen which encourages improvement, everyone else should too (respectfully)

Just like I have about Venus in Virgo, and Mars in cancer.

Just think about it, Those who's charts are riddled with 'falls', will be great stories of success against the odds, if they can pull themselves out of the mud of cynical love (Venus in Virgo) the samurai training inside mothers house (mars in cancer) and now... "the flames of hell??" (Mercury in Leo)..

and possibly for another thread but not at all a separate argument.
Since Uranus is the deep-seeing mind of Mercury, what if HE'S placed in Leo?

 

[Dew9]

If Mercury is in fall in Pisces what does it mean then if that Mercury is in cazimi with the sun and both in 2nd house??

Just wondering as I have this...

 

[juicey J.]

Mercury is in fall in Pisces because mecury is all about gathering info and about the details where as Pisces is intuitive and non detailed oriented. Unless of Course Pisces Traditional ruler jupiter is Virgo then they can fall into the trap of being overly nitpicky from time to time.