mental illness and astrology

[Spectrum]

Check out Dr Mitchell Earl Gibson. He is a psychiatrist and has written an entire book on astrology charts and mental illness. You can go to his website www.tybro.com and get most of all his other resources for free.

 

[FleetingDasein]

I'd like to contribute my own chart. I've struggled with depression and severe anxiety. My case is not as serious as the other cases described here, but it is still pretty interesting to see where the extreme emotionality comes from.

Note:
I've got retrograde jupiter squaring my moon in cancer, i.e excessive emotions, mood swings.

Neptune on the MC: General confusion as to what to do with my life. Aimlessness, extreme apathy, etc.

Pluto in Scorpio in the 8th: Complex emotions. I'm attracted to very deep and emotionally intense experiences.

Chiron in the 3rd: Childhood wounds, not being able to find my "voice". I had a speech impediment when I was a kid, and I've never been able to speak with confidence. My parents divorced when I was 7. I wasn't abused, but my anxieties are closely related to how I was brought up.

I'm sure there's a lot I'm missing.

 

[waybread]

Really good insights Olivia.

Skillcoil, the "one size fits all" interpretation of two-planet aspects has not held up statistically where it's been tested. You kind of have to put them in the context of the rest of the chart. I think the gaps in astrological predictability are there for a reason: to keep us humble and admitting there is so much we do not and probabably cannot know.

Mental illness, BTW, is an illness. We are beginning to understand it in much the same way as physical illness.


I am not a believer in conventional religion. I sometimes joke, paraphrasing Groucho Marx, that any religion that would have me as a member would have to excommunicate me. I grew up in a secular Protestant family, converted to a faith in order to marry my ex-husband, and have been completely inactive in it since our separation15 years ago. I throw in these tid-bits so that nobody jumps to the conclusion that I am a card-carrying member of a particular faith. I am not.

I agree that karmic astrology is unhelpful most times. People are made to feel bad and wrong for something they supposedly did in a past life over which they have no control; and truthfully, no verifiable way of discovering. Karmic astrology is not merely New Age: the concept of karma was borrowed from the Hindu faith, in which it is ancient.

The most sensible ways of understanding "why bad things happen to good people" that I get are (a) out of the Bible, and (b) out of the old Jane Roberts "Seth" books. (Now please--no gratuitous pot-shots at her stuff, anybody. Read it before you say anything about it.)

(a) The message of the biblical books of Job and Isaiah is that God's ways surpass human understanding. There is a rabbinical expression, "If we could understand Him, could He really be God?" If you are an atheist, don't think about God as the old man with the white beard. That is actually a form of idolatry. So far as I can make out, God is the matrix in which our lives occur, as a divine consciousness.

The older I get (now past my 2nd Saturn return!) the more I am beginning to come around to the concept of God's plan. Things that were huge sources of stress and anxiety to me when I was younger now turn out to have given me assets that are truly beneficial in my life. In a very generic way, if a child or young adult faces no adversity, it is hard for them to build a strong character or good basic habits and life-skills.

(b) The goals of the soul (here as a divine entity that is not co-equal with the body or personality) are growth and creativity. Souls do not necessarily choose easy lives, because there is no growth there. To say this as an analogy, if you had it in you to be truly great at something--be it tennis or running a nation-- your pre-incarnation soul would not want things to go easily for you because you would never be tested at the level necessary to hone your abilities to their best level. A really good tennis player doesn't want a cake-walk, but to be challenged by and to challenge the best players.

All of us partake in the ability to create something new; most foundationally, our own lives.

So this doesn't begin to explain the horrors of the young women identified above. It seems too slight to explain the horrors of little children harmed by war, famine, or disease. But one thing these horrors can do is spur the rest of us to sufficient concern and compassion that we strive to make the world a better place; a place in which such terrible events are less common or disappear, because we have been a stand in our lives for our values.

Then even if we don't change very much in the world or even in our personal circumstances, we at least will have tried to live a life consistent with our values, and with the best of which we are capable.

 

[tee_jay66]

Hi

This is an interesting question.....Im diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, anxiety and severe depression. Ive been depressed (not severley) since about 18.......anxiety and panic disorder with OCD came later and now the BPD, 3 years ago. Im very debilitated and hardly leave the house. Im anxious most days but when the depression hits I usually have thoughts of death.

I dont feel like I belong here and dislike society and being around people in general.....................Ive always felt an outsider on this planet and very misunderstood.

I know I have a debilitated neptune with my lights. Also an eigth house sun, 4th house saturn conjuct chiron Rx. Also saturn/ascendent...................not a pleasent mix

Hope my chart helps your studies

 

[waybread]

TJ, your chart actually does not look so difficult, with all those trines and sextiles! You have a big "kite" formation pointing to your Uranus/Pluto in the 9th house. It would seem that you need to develop a kind of life philosophy or "religious" faith. This doesn't necessarily mean religion in any conventional sense, however. At the base of the kite is a painful Saturn/Chiron suggesting some difficulties in your early home life, but the kite gives you power to transform these experiences.

I hope you can get out of the house, even briefly everyday, because nobody's morale can stand being indoors day after day. Have you got a back garden where you could sit quietly without being noticed, just to get some daylight on your retinas; or better yet do a bit of gardening work (moon in Taurus conjunct NN)?

If you feel that getting out of doors is too much of a stretch, try lighting candles and ideally, putting a fire in the fire place if you have one. Leo seems to benefit from being around the fire element in a literal way. If you have any gold jewelry, it may help to wear it. If you don't have a back garden, then modeling things out of clay or raising a few house plants may activate your Taurus moon energy.

Never forget that Leo is royalty. When the lion feels wounded, he may retreat to his den. But your sign ruler is the sun, and I think you will feel better if you can actually have more contact with the fire element.

Also, I hope you can read Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now. He came from a self-critical emotional place very much like the one you described, yet taught himself to find inner contentment.

Neptune square sun and moon can be a big self-confidence eraser, but you have many other good aspects going for you.

Good luck to you, tee jay!

 

[tee_jay66]

TJ, your chart actually does not look so difficult, with all those trines and sextiles! You have a big "kite" formation pointing to your Uranus/Pluto in the 9th house. It would seem that you need to develop a kind of life philosophy or "religious" faith. This doesn't necessarily mean religion in any conventional sense, however. At the base of the kite is a painful Saturn/Chiron suggesting some difficulties in your early home life, but the kite gives you power to transform these experiences.

I hope you can get out of the house, even briefly everyday, because nobody's morale can stand being indoors day after day. Have you got a back garden where you could sit quietly without being noticed, just to get some daylight on your retinas; or better yet do a bit of gardening work (moon in Taurus conjunct NN)?

If you feel that getting out of doors is too much of a stretch, try lighting candles and ideally, putting a fire in the fire place if you have one. Leo seems to benefit from being around the fire element in a literal way. If you have any gold jewelry, it may help to wear it. If you don't have a back garden, then modeling things out of clay or raising a few house plants may activate your Taurus moon energy.

Never forget that Leo is royalty. When the lion feels wounded, he may retreat to his den. But your sign ruler is the sun, and I think you will feel better if you can actually have more contact with the fire element.

Also, I hope you can read Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now. He came from a self-critical emotional place very much like the one you described, yet taught himself to find inner contentment.

Neptune square sun and moon can be a big self-confidence eraser, but you have many other good aspects going for you.

Good luck to you, tee jay!

Thanks for your warm reply and for responding with depth of feeling.

To answer your reply I have taken up a personal faith that is pivitol to my whole life. My home has become a little meditation shrine with buddhas and deities of the hindu religion. Meditation, yoga and reading about God in whatever divine form he could be (Ive always been confused as to how to imagine God to be)............Ive studied many faiths and tried different religions, never quite finding myself through anything imparticular.................But the shrine to God helps.

Ive decked out my home in golds, reds and oranges for my fire element. brough houseplants in for my taurus moon....and I love gardening, so in the summer I feel much better to be outside.

I burn candles in the evening also for my fire element.................All these things have helped me accept myself for who I am even if I am stuck in a rut.

Yes ive read 'The power of Now'....I think everyone should read that, as it can change anyone's perception of things

thanks again

 

[mooncereal]

Hi

This is an interesting question.....Im diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, anxiety and severe depression. Ive been depressed (not severley) since about 18.......anxiety and panic disorder with OCD came later and now the BPD, 3 years ago. Im very debilitated and hardly leave the house. Im anxious most days but when the depression hits I usually have thoughts of death.

I dont feel like I belong here and dislike society and being around people in general.....................Ive always felt an outsider on this planet and very misunderstood.

HI, I'm in a similar state of mind, I'm in the process of being diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I have a lot of the same feelings as you. Here is a look at my chart.

 

[waybread]

tee jay66, it sounds like you are taking some constructive steps. Also, hopefully participating on Internet forums puts you more in touch with other people.

mooncereal, I don't think it is true in all cases (compare tee jay's chart), but sometimes people with a bipolar disorder have several oppositions in their chart. One of the tough ones would seem to be that close opposition of your sun to Neptune and Uranus. The thing about oppositions is that they do have a "see-saw" effect, where we are apt to alternate our focus on one planet or the other. Usually we like one planet's energies better than the other, which makes it hard for us to balance them. Have you tried yoga? I understand that it can be helpful for people with a bipolar disorder because it is about 'balancing."

 

[retinoid]

The first thing I look at when talking about mental illness is where the moon is. If it is in the eighth house you are at a big risk for developing depression also if the sun is there. This is the house of Scorpio and overall is a pretty 'intense' house dealing with endings/death/change/occult. Also if someone has a big water presence it puts them at risk to being more depressed because you are emotional in a world that is no emotional which makes living a lot more difficult and being hurt much more easy...Pluto being in the first house also puts you at risk of being standoffish/imposing and perhaps feeling unable to really connect with people.

 

[waybread]

retinoid, I am not sure this is correct for everyone. One twelfth of the human population will have the sun in the 8th house, or something over half a billion people, but the incidence of clinical depression would seem to be a lot less. Also the correspondence between the number of a sign and the number of a house is a product of fairly recent astrology without much evidence behind it: see Deborah Houlding: Houses: Temples of the Sky. Of course, some people could be as you say, but I think they would need additional chart factors to confirm it.

I think 8th house sun people are often very private, but then this wouldn't be true in all cases.

 

[mooncereal]

tee jay66, it sounds like you are taking some constructive steps. Also, hopefully participating on Internet forums puts you more in touch with other people.

mooncereal, I don't think it is true in all cases (compare tee jay's chart), but sometimes people with a bipolar disorder have several oppositions in their chart. One of the tough ones would seem to be that close opposition of your sun to Neptune and Uranus. The thing about oppositions is that they do have a "see-saw" effect, where we are apt to alternate our focus on one planet or the other. Usually we like one planet's energies better than the other, which makes it hard for us to balance them. Have you tried yoga? I understand that it can be helpful for people with a bipolar disorder because it is about 'balancing."

I have tried yoga before and felt really good about it. Unfortunately it always ends up being put on the back burner just like everything else. I was meaning to try taking it as a class so I am forced to go every week instead of finding reasons to stay at home. I feel like I have a lot of nervous energy sometimes and I hold resentment for everything that I promised myself I'd do. But yes, thank you for reminding me about yoga, it is a great suggestion and I should get back into that.

 

[mooncereal]

The first thing I look at when talking about mental illness is where the moon is. If it is in the eighth house you are at a big risk for developing depression also if the sun is there. This is the house of Scorpio and overall is a pretty 'intense' house dealing with endings/death/change/occult. Also if someone has a big water presence it puts them at risk to being more depressed because you are emotional in a world that is no emotional which makes living a lot more difficult and being hurt much more easy...Pluto being in the first house also puts you at risk of being standoffish/imposing and perhaps feeling unable to really connect with people.

True about pluto in the 1st house/ Scorpio Ascendant, I feel as though I cannot be myself around anyone, and that everyone I have ever met or known or befriended does not know the real me and that if they did know they would not be able to handle it, I feel like I am always cursed to pretend to be "normal" around people. That probably has to do with my feelings.

 

[waybread]

With Pluto in the first house, you probably come across to others as pretty intense! Yet 1/12 of the human population, or over half a billion people, will have this placement as well, and probably most of their lives turn out OK. You get a double dose of this with Scorpio rising; but again, 1/12 of the people of your generation will also have this placement.

Hopefully you are in a situation where you can meet people who have moved beyond shallowness and want a friend with real depth. The good side of this placement with the close Pluto trine sun is your ability to be very courageous and to transform your sense of self when you need to do so.

 

[mooncereal]

With Pluto in the first house, you probably come across to others as pretty intense! Yet 1/12 of the human population, or over half a billion people, will have this placement as well, and probably most of their lives turn out OK. You get a double dose of this with Scorpio rising; but again, 1/12 of the people of your generation will also have this placement.

Hopefully you are in a situation where you can meet people who have moved beyond shallowness and want a friend with real depth. The good side of this placement with the close Pluto trine sun is your ability to be very courageous and to transform your sense of self when you need to do so.

That is a very good way to look at it. I feel like I am letting all of my friends down when in reality I think a lot of my friend's are people who don't want to have a complex person around, just an easy friend that isn't messy, which I am not. I'm still young so figuring out what kind of people I connect with is still a challenge for me.

 

[Abby]

A family member of mine (who we will name x), was abused as a child and now has mental illness (manic depression). They constantly have one problem after the next, and feel defeated. I looked at x's chart, and am shocked that there are what seems to be 3 T-squares and a water Grand Trine. Pretty much every one of x's planets has a hard aspect to them. I didn't think this was possible. Now I can see what the fuss is about.

I am still trying to figure out x's chart (which is hard since I don't know what time they were born). If anyone has insight let me know.

 

[Claire19]

Marilyn Monroe would be an interesting chart to take a look at to compare. She was diagnosed with Borderline Paranoid Schizophrenia. Now she was also a drug attic and alcoholic so that will color things a bit too. I just got done reading a biography of her. I will see if I can find a chart on her with a birth-time for accuracy.

Here it is: The biggest noteworthy aspect I see with her is a T-Square between her Moon Neptune opposition from Saturn. This would be someone who is very prone to depression(Saturn to Moon) and not one to see things clearly(Moon to Neptune) possibly explaining the paranoid part of her personality. It's interesting to note that both her mother and grandmother were diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia, something she always feared. There were signs early on of her BPS, however it was fueled by her excessive drug and alcohol use. What's more, there were signs of being manic depressive or bipolar as well. It's difficult to really pinpoint ALL of these problems in this chart so one has to wonder if genetics play a bigger role or not? I suspect if she had not become so dependant on drugs and alcohol, that she could have easily managed the BPS.

THe dependence on drugs was to sleep etc and then it becomes a bigger issue. I have studied her chart in the past and her Gemini Sun contributes to mental challenges as does her Aquarian moon, both signs for mental disorder. SHe had Leo rising with Neptune there in the 1st and was born with reddish gold hair of that sign.....Ruled then by her Gemini sun and all its attendant problems. Her childhood was unstable with foster homes etc. She suffered from a weak self identity which happens with Neptune in the 1st and not knowing her father, with being ruled by the Sun. He also used different names..... Neptune in the 1st indicates a lot of illusion and glamour can come from that as well as photogenic properties.

She looked quite different in reality, although pretty always. When she was not being "Marilyn Monroe" again the spilt personality from Norma Jean Baker as with the Gemini Sun, she could pass, often, unnoticed in a street until she turned on the high beam of being Marilyn.......The half inch off one shoe heel gave her the famous wiggle, again a delusion or trick...She was contemplating breast implants as she had lost a lot of weight just before she passed over. Again the false sexual image. SHe had Venus in Aries and would initiate sexual encounters often......

In her case her mental problems were definitely hereditary and as they mostly are......Drugs only exacerbate the disorder.

 

[Claire19]

A family member of mine (who we will name x), was abused as a child and now has mental illness (manic depression). They constantly have one problem after the next, and feel defeated. I looked at x's chart, and am shocked that there are what seems to be 3 T-squares and a water Grand Trine. Pretty much every one of x's planets has a hard aspect to them. I didn't think this was possible. Now I can see what the fuss is about.

I am still trying to figure out x's chart (which is hard since I don't know what time they were born). If anyone has insight let me know.

Without a time of birth cannot tell what went on in childhood and really without that, we are only guessing and surmising..... I believe we are born with the mental problems that just arise later in life, sometimes because of stress perhaps, but mental issues cannot be given by anyone outside.

 

[Claire19]

A family member of mine (who we will name x), was abused as a child and now has mental illness (manic depression). They constantly have one problem after the next, and feel defeated. I looked at x's chart, and am shocked that there are what seems to be 3 T-squares and a water Grand Trine. Pretty much every one of x's planets has a hard aspect to them. I didn't think this was possible. Now I can see what the fuss is about.

I am still trying to figure out x's chart (which is hard since I don't know what time they were born). If anyone has insight let me know.

Mercury opposing Pluto from Aquarius to Leo indicates mental problems and perhaps of a sexual nature. Her Mercury is also challenged in other ways with a square to Saturn. Neptune is squaring Venus and Mars and this can indicate secrecy surrounding love and sex matters. She has to be very wary of who she is attracted to and attracts. Dependency, addiction and wanting to be rescued is often common....Her SUn in Pisces adds to all this.....but without the right ascendant, cant say more.

 

[Claire19]

retinoid, I am not sure this is correct for everyone. One twelfth of the human population will have the sun in the 8th house, or something over half a billion people, but the incidence of clinical depression would seem to be a lot less. Also the correspondence between the number of a sign and the number of a house is a product of fairly recent astrology without much evidence behind it: see Deborah Houlding: Houses: Temples of the Sky. Of course, some people could be as you say, but I think they would need additional chart factors to confirm it.

I think 8th house sun people are often very private, but then this wouldn't be true in all cases.

Clinical issues would have to a connection to the sixth of disease and health in general as well as the 1st house indications. Depression belongs with Saturn in connection to the personal planets such as the Sun and Mercury. Dietary changes can often bring relief and it has happened to me.

But mental issues are the air element influences, Mercury, Uranus
and Gemini, Aquarius and sometimes Libra. THe Moon for emotional indications which cannot be separated from overall state. THe Moon with Mercury, Saturn, Uranus and Pluto are indications...

THe 8th house covers many areas and deep and intense matters of all kinds...it is primarily major crises and transformations, issues of life and death, secret taboo matters, sex and the assets of others.....A great sense of spirituality and of life everlasting can come from it with interest in reincarnation ,rebirth, recycling, refurbishment, renovation and renaissance....

 

[Taurus81]

A family member of mine (who we will name x), was abused as a child and now has mental illness (manic depression). They constantly have one problem after the next, and feel defeated. I looked at x's chart, and am shocked that there are what seems to be 3 T-squares and a water Grand Trine. Pretty much every one of x's planets has a hard aspect to them. I didn't think this was possible. Now I can see what the fuss is about.

I am still trying to figure out x's chart (which is hard since I don't know what time they were born). If anyone has insight let me know.

i use a combined technique of using astro.com and tweaking the birth time using www.astrofaces.com for missing birth times.. doesn't give an exact time and it depends on the amount and quality of photos but it helps..