Magi Astrology: for Genuine, Sincere Questions & Learning about it ONLY

[gilgamesh]

Interesting. Is there a website where someone could generate their chart in Magi astrology format?

I use good ole' Astrolog (http://magitech.com/astrolog/astrolog/astfile.htm) with which I can do practically all Magi Society charts and concepts. It helps greatly to have some depth of understanding of the astronomical calculations that are used. You can do heliocentric charts with helio aspects, you can see declinational aspects in both geo and helio and the midpoint list matches what the Magi use and still see it in a more traditional context.

I have paid Magi Society membership dues and own their MagiSoft software, but I guess I've gotten so used to Astrolog that for the most part I found it to be cumbersome with too much jargon and continue to use Astrolog. That's not to criticize the Magi chart drawing method - when I first picked up "Astrology Really Works!" back in 1996, it struck me as pure genius to put the declinational S curve in the middle of the chart, for example.

Gilgamesh

 

[gilgamesh]

Just one last point and I'll leave you be:

Please explain to the forum what the "requirements of the Society in order to retain this information" might be.

Paying a lot of money.

I'm quite late on this thread, but I sympathize greatly with Frank's point of view (and am guessing he has Saturn in Capricorn rising and used to be on undernet #astrology ? ) This has to be my (and that of many others) biggest beef with the Magi Society, which is making big claims with very specific numbers and then being really coy about backing them up - you have to be a member, blah blah. It stinks of Scientology. However legitimate their claims might be, this is generally how frauds and con-jobs are executed. Science is fundamentally about peer-review of data. This allows revision of erroneous and false data etc etc ad infinitum - anyone who claims to have education in the hard sciences should already know this.

When kings claimed divine right rulership to justify their transgressions, eventually the masses rose up and dealt with that such that democratic forms of government arose.

'Nuff said.

Gilgamesh

 

[Pisces66]

Magnetic7,
With respect to the Jupiter/Saturn and Chiron/Saturn midpoints, would Mars 150 degrees from either midpoint be a linkage or a clash? I'm talking about synastry here, my Mars (e.g.) aspecting her Chiron/Saturn midpoint.

Thanks!

 

[juicey J.]

sincere question: Will the magi society release their database of "75,000 charts of married couples" so that independent replication of their research may be attempted?

thank you for asking this.

 

[juicey J.]

No offense but I don't think its fair to say magi astrology is more accurate then traditional. Traditional to my knowledge has never had statistical test done with their methodes on near the level the magi astrologers use. Over 75,000 Charts Really that's insane!!!!!!!!!!! Also, what do they mean traditional astrology doesn't have clear answers to things like when should I marry or should I marry or when should I buy a house or should I buy said house? To my knowledge for the most part they do and are more then accurate enough or hardly anyone would practice traditional astrology. Also, why won't they release their research for peer review? I'm not saying the magi astological community hasn't found new techniques which, might in some ways be superior to the older ones (I will be skeptical until I see the reasearch) and bless them if they did.

 

[Belinda]

Hello

I have a question about Saturn parallel Chiron in synastry.
Do I understand correctly that it's NOT a clash aspect?

 

[Belinda]

Thank you Sven!

I'm studying a synastry of a long term, happy couple and trying to find out
what astrologically works for them from Magi point of view.

Hi Belinda,
You want to check that the CAC has a "Saturn Balance," meaning that the non-Saturn pesron in Sat-Chi has another interaspect where they provide the Saturn. Otherwise if can be tricky.

One bad manifestation of the Sat-Chi linkage could be a "battered wife" syndrome, for instance, Or battered husband - not being sexist here.

Sven

Yes indeed, the non-Saturn person of the above mentioned aspect
provides the Saturn in another aspect - Saturn-Moon conjunction.
I'm guessing he's not a battered husband after all
And again, I suspect Magi wouldn't consider this conjunction as something positive?

 

[Claire19]

I'm interested by this assertion that Chiron is about relationships ... I have chiron opposite Uranus ... I've never been able to hold down a decent relationship ... anybody I ever met that I liked and felt could be a longterm prospect dumped me ... and usually I never saw it coming ... relationships just blow up for me all the time without warning ... and even more as my progressed venus has been in orb of uranus which itself has progressed ...

Is there anything I can do?

Your Venus in square Neptune in the 7th and this my take of it with conventional astrology and is classic for disappointment in marriage situations or partnerships. They can be addicts or even criminals and you tend to see a person through rose coloured glasses or they are deceptive to you and you need to always get all the facts and to get as real as possible about any partner. Check out their background etc. Sometimes they are already in a relationship and lie to you.....
This is my take on it and I am no expert in Magi astrology but keep an open mind to it.

 

[Claire19]

No offense but I don't think its fair to say magi astrology is more accurate then traditional. Traditional to my knowledge has never had statistical test done with their methodes on near the level the magi astrologers use. Over 75,000 Charts Really that's insane!!!!!!!!!!! Also, what do they mean traditional astrology doesn't have clear answers to things like when should I marry or should I marry or when should I buy a house or should I buy said house? To my knowledge for the most part they do and are more then accurate enough or hardly anyone would practice traditional astrology. Also, why won't they release their research for peer review? I'm not saying the magi astological community hasn't found new techniques which, might in some ways be superior to the older ones (I will be skeptical until I see the reasearch) and bless them if they did.

Hear Hear! Ideally we can use all the knowledge at our disposal and meld the information for even greater clarity.

 

[Belinda]

Hello Sven and again big thank you for your explanation!

Hi again Belinda,

Just to ensure I am not putting you wrong here: I mix Magi Astrology with other astrology into "Sven Astrology" - which makes me a bit of a heretic; to be a pure magi person, you should not mix it at all. With other forms.

Because I have been doing this a while, I forget what is pure magi astrology.

Being quite new to astrology (and realizing it's a life-time subject to study)
I though Magi may sound kind of easier that traditional astrology.
No need to worry if out of sign aspect is still an aspect (like 28Aries and 0Cancer - is it a real sextil or is it not, cause it's out of sign - I realize by the way Magi doesn't consider sextiles at all) or the importance of planets placement in partner's houses in synastry.
Although I'm probably being naive - it may be different but not necessarily easier.

So therefore, Saturn conjuct Moon in synastry could be: Stable Past, Stable emotions, Stable conditioning - with stable being a form of Control.
It can also become neurotic feelings, neurotic psychology (conditioning).

With your couple, having both Sat-Chi and Sat-Moon in the CAC, I get a "past life" feel. Any other indicators of this?

Any nodal aspects, for instance?

In this case I don't see anything neurotic.
It's rather about stable emotions and stable conditioning. No emotional dramas, no quarrels. Big harmony, I would say.

Indeed, there is a nodal connetction in this synastry too. North Node conj. Jupiter.And there's also - how could I've missed that - Chiron conj. Moon.

Often, karmic promises of working together are indicated by Saturn-Vesta aspects, both in CAC and in natal (which would then be CAC aspected).

You're spot on with this! In CAC there's a trine between Saturn and Vesta.
Vesta person in this couple has also natal Vesta - Sun conjunction.
That means there's also Saturn - Sun trine in CAC.

Saturn seems to be a huge theme here.
Happily, making conjunctions and trines, no squares or oppositions or 150 degree aspects - clashes.

Also look at: first meeting chart (and the transits to the persons); the first intimate chart (sex - in the same manner) and marriage chart, if applicable.

That isn't applicable.

However in CAC there is a sexulal linkage like someone would expect in such a case. Pluto making 150 deg. aspect to Mars.

Cinderella transit on a wedding day - trans. Neptun conj. nChiron.

Best regards, B.

 

[Claire19]

Sincere question: Will the Magi Society release their database of "75,000 charts of married couples" so that independent replication of their research may be attempted?

Yes and their exact time of birth......Dont imagine they will all be accurate!!! Waiting too..

 

[C0rnholio]

I have chiron opposite Uranus ... I've never been able to hold down a decent relationship ...

the Chiron-Uranus aspect within a natal chart, indicates a person who either shys away from, or is unwilling to marry. A good example of a person with this aspect is Oprah Winfrey...

A Chiron-Uranus opposition is not just a multi-generational aspect. This is an aspect that includes the majority of living adults. Chiron moves very slowly, and so does Uranus. There are 35 years worth of people with this aspect, everyone between the ages of 22 and 57. The most useless thread on Astrologyweekly is about Chiron-Uranus opposition:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=988&p=187493

Chiron was was discovered on November 1, 1977 by American astronomer Charles Kowal. The Chinese monks must have been studying something else between 1625 and 1977, not Chiron.

Responding to a ligitimate question by Frank took a lot or steam. Perhaps the secret astrology that was used in that research of 75,000 couples should remain secret. I started reading this thread with a "clean slate" and my slate is still clean.

Here is the Reader's Digest version of the current thread so far: Post #15, post #60.

I might read this link when I find some more time:
http://www.magiastrology.com/lesson1.html

I just finished a book (in Russian) where two traditional astrologers ran a bunch of statistics and published their data and findings. They concluded that it is the Descendant, the ruler of the Descendant, the position and aspects of the ruler, and the mutual aspects between the two charts to those rulers, or sign reception between the rulers, that describe the quality and the outcome of relationships and marriage. It is strange that the Magi Society research chooses to ignore the natal axes.

 

[Magnetic7]

Actually I have a few questions on this.
Firstly, how does one become certified and how much does it cost?
Secondly, I did read a bit about magi astrology about 10 years ago. I have a basic understanding of linkages and clashes so what if you have a Venus and Jupiter linkage to Chiron between 2 charts but there are also a few clashes. What takes precedence or how will these play out over time?

Hi Serendipity,

To become certified, one needs to join the society for a minimum of 5 years. There is a one time administration fee plus the current rate which is $55 per year. So the costs are not that hefty, but the one time payment for becoming a professional member (one that is eligible for certification) can be a bit on the straining side for some.

As far as the way to interpret a mixture of linkages and clashes, that would really depend on what kind they are, and how strong each of them is. There are various ways to calculate this, but only someone who is very well versed in Magi Astrology would be able to make a fair assessment about it. The most important factor of course, would be that the entire chart would need to be taken into consideration.

 

[Magnetic7]

Hello

I have a question about Saturn parallel Chiron in synastry.
Do I understand correctly that it's NOT a clash aspect?

No, it is not a clash aspect, and if utilised well in a chart can in fact be beneficial in certain ways to the people involved. This would depend on various factors of course.

 

[Magnetic7]

I'd like to again remind everyone, that this thread is for LEARNING PURPOSES IN MAGI ASTROLOGY ONLY, and NOT a place to yell and stomp your feet because you find statements and/or information that challenges your prior knowledge and belief systems in astrology!

As with ALL LIFE, change and innovation is a GIVEN, and new methods will come in to replace the old, out-moded ways of doing things, no matter how much sticklers for tradition whine about it!

I would also like to remind you, that Magi Astrology is not even a new methodology to begin with, but orignates through Shao Lin Monks of the 1600's! So, just because their method is DIFFERENT from yours, does not make it unable to do the JOB, which is to accurately INTERPRET what an astrological chart SAYS.

As far as retaining statistical information, AGAIN, I will direct you to the MAGI SOCIETY themselves, who are the ONLY ONES that can answer and/or provide you with this information!

FOR THE LAST TIME, we here are NOT the ORIGINATORS or the DIRECTORS of those studies, but are only PRACTITIONERS of this science/art. So please do NOT direct your insecurities about these issues at us ANYMORE, as we CAN NOT help you!

If you are so concerned with finding out if this system WORKS, then try it out for YOURSELF and FIND OUT, or STOP complaining about it!

Regarding all the talk about houses, descendant rulers, etc., etc., --
the Magi Society does not even use this mode of interpretation in the FIRST place, so it makes NO difference how many theories, or X person came up with this, or Y person said that, you can cite on here, as it is utterly and totally IRRELEVANT to this system of Astrology!

Thank you!

 

[3Demon]

I want to commend you for opening a thread like this to discuss Magi astrology.

Despite the fact that I don't appreciate the 'tone' of the Magi Society's website, I find that their astrological principles are undeniable, quite consistent, and definitely warrant exploration.

The problem is that it is incredibly difficult to find more information to go in-depth into Magi style astrology without becoming a member. Although I am considering membership, an area to openly discuss magi principles beforehand is much appreciated.

I think that all serious astrologers should at least consider the findings of Magi astrology research.

I have a few questions of my own that I will post soon. Thanks again!

edit: I noticed it has been a over a month since the last post... hopefully both Sven and Magnetic are both still active here?

 

[3Demon]

Great to hear from you!

Yes, there is a wealth of information on their website which I've poured over. I've learned so much just reading through their case studies. They do a great job of explaining most of the basic principles of magi astrology, and then even explaining advanced details.

When I re-analyze charts and situations I had analyzed before by using magi astrology, I find that some of the 'mysteries' or things that were apparent in the situation but not in the chart came alive. Dragon points (in natal and CAC charts) were a real eye opener.

However, once I run into a question such as how to interpret a Chiron sq. Chiron transit (highly significant), or how Dragonized transits work as opposed to a regular transit, it's hard to find information. For example, t.Chiron is currently entering orb to square my natal chiron at 3'42 Gem. However, I have a natal yod with Chiron at the peak, and Neptune (1'42Cap)/Pluto(4'38Scorp) sextile at the base. As Chiron moves into square orb of natal Chiron, it will also move into orb of trine to Pluto, creating a mystical triangle. Due to the principle of Enhacement Dominance, I am not sure how i'd interpret all this.

I should mention that in Helio I have a similar configuration which is also already applying, except there are a few other things in the mix such as Venus at the head of the yod conj. Chiron.

As a Mac user, would Solar Fire work for me? I dont know if the magi astrology's software is Mac-friendly.

Thank you for any insight or direction, it is much appreciated!

 

[3Demon]

The geometry definitely makes sense to me.

It has been hard to find information from the magi on chiron transiting its own birth position. They happen rarely and seem to carry huge significance to regular astrology. The age people experience them at also varies due to the eccentric orbit of Chiron.

I've found information on the square to show it as a turning point, but not necessarily of negativity. However, I haven't found the magi interpretation. What do they say about it?

I wonder how the magi view eclipses, as they seem to be - from my own analysis over time - extremely significant.

As for the house systems, it seems like a lot of people have criticized the magi for steering clear. But as far as I can see it, none of the magi have ever refuted the house system, just agreed that since they havent got reliable data on it yet that they wont use it. Seems like a legitimate stance to me.

The one thing I find challenging about Magi astrology is that sometimes it feels tough to look ahead - with all the potential negative influences of Saturn making angles all over my chart all the time, it seems like NO time is ever a good time to start anything. For my chart at least it always seems like every new start has Saturn making a clash somewhere. Even right now as I ask these questions!

Thanks for weighing in Sven!

 

[Medusa'sChiron]

Hi, I have a question.....I have Chiron in the 4th house, and with the traditional astrology I have interpreted it to mean that my home would be where I feel the 'pain' in my life. And it hasn't been such a far-fetched interpretation, considering my life. I have it in Piscies.

Could I take it to mean in Magi Astrology that my 'love' would be in my house?

I especially worry about it because both of my children also have it in the 4th house, as if though it's some family curse.

Thank you

 

[3Demon]

Hi Medusa,

You have nothing to worry about, and your children certainly arent cursed! Although there is some value to looking at the traditional interpretations of Chiron, I wouldnt base your understanding of Chiron on them. Chiron is not a planet that is just about pain.

It is possible that you have aspects formed to Chiron natally that could be stressful, but its hard to say if your children do or dont. Even if they do, there is potential in every aspect, so they are not cursed, nor are you.

Magi do not use houses in their interpretation, so I wouldnt get too concerned about the placement in your 4th house.