Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

knowhow999

Well-known member
Lillith is in my second house at the 29th degree of taurus. I have felt for some time the power of this force within my chart. Although it opposes my 8th house Mars in Sag and is conj my part of fortune in my 8th, I know its value is a force of good for me.
I really appreciate this discussion and all I continue to learn from this site.

Blessings:biggrin:
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Okay, I believe the question is resolved...in fact, I'm sure of it.

As I started a thread on the Part of War, {Asc + Mars - Pluto} last week, and had been posting on a few other threads at the time and realizing that Uranus had returned, retrograde, to my Part of Unusual Events aka the Part of Misinterpretation {Asc. + Uranus - Moon}... I became worried that i might be in a 'period of time' , where-in I might be very convinced that I'm interpreting things correctly but in reality I'm not.

...so what to do?...

I called my Clairvoyant friend... and spiritual confidante... Clarisse.

I asked Her if I was "...seeing things for what they are. Am I interpreting the Sabians correctly, at this time, for one thing."... I mentioned that the Part of War for the USA natal chart [the "Zero Hour Chart", that is: 12:00:01 a.m. July 4, 1776, Philadelphia, Penn. ..which she confirmed as being "the ONE" to use as the natal for the USA soon after I produced it in March of 2012.] is in the 15th degree of Virgo and was a bit concerned that the natal position of the USA's Lilith being in the 20th of Virgo might be a problem as I had never been 100% convinced that Lilith had any affect on anything at all ...and I also told Her that I was unresolved as to the uncertainty that such a thing actually exists at all and if such a thing does is it then that as to what astrodienst gives as such or between any of the two aforementioned alternatives? [osc Lilith and Waldemath's Noon].

She said that day,that astrodienst's Lilith is the one that is correctly titled and when I asked Her what effect it may have on things astrologically, she replied,; "Have you ever seen one of those videos of a tornado and how the last few feet of it touch the ground and that portion of it is whipping around erratically and with so much force? ... imagine trying to control it!"

Then she told me that as for my correctly "seeing things as they are", she told me she was having this vision of the Sun and something was blocking the light..like an eclipse. She told me not to do postings until the 9th ...which is today.

In the wee hours of last night/this morning [and I still haven't slept yet, I've been up about 22 hours], I opened an email from Phoenix Venus and she had cast a progressed composite of our natal charts and she was quite astir about our prog. composite Lilith being conj. my natal Part of War at the present time. I was a bit stunned, myself, to say the least. So I kicked back in my chair and looking up to my own natal chart that is tacked to the wall directly behind my compute about 2 feet away...and...

I could kick myself... all this time I hadn't really thought about, or 'Realized", would be a better way to put it, that as my natal Lilith is conj. the Part of War, for the United States, what that entailed.

So, I called Her again, just a half hour ago, and asked Her if I should take her 'vision' to mean that I can't grasp it? That I can't grasp the symbology for the degree or is it that Lilith is likely to whip it up?

She replied; "Lilith stirs the pot... vigorously!... And you don't want to be doing that!"

Thus said. I am self banned from ever commenting on matters of "War", pertaining to the United States of America, ever again.

...or for that matter on anything that is associated with anyones' chart for the 15th degree of Virgo.

I urge all, that are reading this, to observe where your own natal Lilith falls and to be so advised as to concerning yourselves and your clients, if you are a professional or give amatuer advice.


...and, btw... I did ask Clarisse last week, after giving a brief description of them, about osc Lilith and Wlademath's Moon, if either of them was that which should be really the one so titled as Lilith [which I already mentioned above..that is, they aren't.] and, or, do either affect anything at all?
Now...I can't recall offhand to which she was referring to, but she said that [which ever one she was in fact talking about] she sees that it does have effect, but it is [possibly...maybe moreover, probably...] an unpredictable "Worm Hole".
She didn't mention what kind of effect though and although, upon my asking, she had once described the manner in which the former planet, now known as, the asteroids do affect [Yes, I thought so, and Clarisse confirmed that the asteroids were at one time a planet and must be given it's due still. That also includes the hierarchy of Planetary rulerships, house rulerships and things akin. The two signs of Sag. and Pisces... Aquarius is ruled by Jupiter, as I deduced...and honestly, it's an easy deduction... Capricorn, expansive Earth...Earth Above Earth... Expansion = Jupiter... and seriously, did anyone believe that 'cold, stern', Saturn was the ruler of; "Empathy for Humanity", lovin' Aquarius? I have an Aquarian Moon, exactly conj. my I.C. ...I should know, that, if I know anything at all about astrology. ... but I digress.] as to be like; "I see worm holes. Opening and closing. Here and then there. Worm holes, opening and closing, opening and closing...here...and then there."

...but the way in which she said it... i have to wonder if she doesn't mean that it is actually a "Worm Hole" we're talking about here...?

..and I just realized that would have to be "Waldemath's moon, Clarisse was talking about...!!!


..oh my... hmmmm...!?!!?!
 
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theV

Well-known member
Okay, I believe the question is resolved...in fact, I'm sure of it.

As I started a thread on the Part of War, {Asc + Mars - Pluto} last week, and had been posting on a few other threads at the time and realizing that Uranus had returned, retrograde, to my Part of Unusual Events aka the Part of Misinterpretation {Asc. + Uranus - Moon}... I became worried that i might be in a 'period of time' , where-in I might be very convinced that I'm interpreting things correctly but in reality I'm not.

...so what to do?...

I called my Clairvoyant friend, and spiritual confidante, Clarisse.

I asked Her if I was "...seeing things for what they are. Am I interpreting the Sabians correctly, at this time, for one thing."... I mentioned that the Part of War for the USA natal chart [the "Zero Hour Chart", that is: 12:00:01 a.m. July 4, 1776, Philadelphia, Penn. ..which she confirmed as being "the ONE" to use as the natal for the USA soon after I produced it in March of 2012.] is in the 15th degree of Virgo and was a bit concerned that the natal position of the USA's Lilith being in the 19th of Virgo might be a problem as I had never been 100% convinced that Lilith had any affect on anything at all ...and I also told Her that I was unresolved as to the uncertainty that such a thing actually exists at all and if such a thing does is it then that as to what astrodienst gives as such or between any of the two aforementioned alternatives? [osc Lilith and Waldemath's Noon].

She said that day,that astrodienst's Lilith is the one that is correctly titled and when I asked Her what effect it may have on things astrologically, she replied,; "Have you ever seen one of those videos of a tornado and how the last few feet of it touch the ground and that portion of it is whipping around erratically and with so much force? ... imagine trying to control it!"

Then she told me that as for my correctly "seeing things as they are", she told me she was having this vision of the Sun and something was blocking the light..like an eclipse. She told me not to do postings until the 9th ...which is today.

In the wee hours of last night/this morning [and I still haven't slept yet, I've been up about 22 hours], I opened an email from Phoenix Venus and she had cast a progressed composite of our natal charts and she was quite astir about our prog. composite Lilith being conj. my natal Part of War at the present time. I was a bit stunned, myself, to say the least. So I kicked back in my chair and looking up to my own natal chart that is tacked to the wall directly behind my compute about 2 feet away...and...

I could kick myself... all this time I hadn't thought about, or 'Realized", would be a better way to put it, that my natal Lilith is conj. the Part of War, for the United States.

So, I called Her again, just a half hour ago, and asked Her if I should take her 'vision' to mean that I can't grasp it? That I can't grasp the symbology for the degree or is it that Lilith is likely to whip it up?

She replied; "Lilith stirs the pot... vigorously!... And you don't want to be doing that!"

Thus said. I am self banned from ever commenting on matters of "War", pertaining to the United States of America, ever again.

...or for that matter on anything that is associated with anyones' chart for the 15th degree of Virgo.

I urge all, that are reading this, to observe where your own natal Lilith falls and to be so advised as to concerning yourselves and your clients, if you are a professional or give amatuer advice.


...and, btw... I did ask Clarisse last week, after giving a brief description of them, about osc Lilith and Wlademath's Moon, if either of them was that which should be really the one so titled as Lilith [which I already mentioned above..that is, they aren't.] and, or, do either affect anything at all?
Now...I can't recall offhand to which she was referring to, but she said that [which ever one she was in fact talking about] she sees that it does have effect, but it is [possibly...maybe moreover, probably...] an unpredictable "Worm Hole".
She didn't mention what kind of effect though and although, upon my asking, she had once described the manner in which the former planet, now known as, the asteroids do affect [Yes, I thought so, and Clarisse confirmed that the asteroids were at one time a planet and must be given it's due still. That also includes the hierarchy of Planetary rulerships, house rulerships and things akin. The two signs of Sag. and Pisces... Aquarius is ruled by Jupiter, as I deduced...and honestly, it's an easy deduction... Capricorn, expansive Earth...Earth Above Earth... Expansion = Jupiter... and seriously, did anyone believe that 'cold, stern', Saturn was the ruler of; "Empathy for Humanity", lovin' Aquarius? I have an Aquarian Moon, exactly conj. my I.C. ...I should know, that, if I know anything at all about astrology. ... but I digress.] as to be like; "I see worm holes. Opening and closing. Here and then there. Worm holes, opening and closing, opening and closing...here...and then there."

...but the way in which she said it... i have to wonder if she doesn't mean t t that it is actually a "Worm Hole" we're talking about here

..and I just realized that would have to be "Waldemath's moon, she was talking about...!!!


..oh my... hmmmm...!?!!?!

Thank you as always for research and information but I disagree I think the Osc Lilith H13 is the one right titled from my observation she manifest strongly
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Well, Clarisse is never wrong about what is and what has been...but...

...I may have gotten the wrong impression as to which of those two she was referring to. I'll have to schedule an appointment with her... I did interrupt a reading she was giving for someone this afternoon and said she only picked up the phone as she could see it was a call from me... [made me feel, kinda special...] ...I wouldn't dare press Her twice in the same day...or month if I can absolutely avoid it. [truth is I get maybe two readings a year from her... and a few times a year I ask her for a "mini-reading" ...i.e. 15mins. of Her time... We are friends...known one another almost 11 years as of now. ...and rather close, as I did write that she is a "spiritual confidante" and I know her pretty well...after all i've studied her chart for over ten years. So,even though ewe are good and close, friends...; I acknowledge these readings as a "business transaction" between us. They're not 'Free' ...not all of them, anyways ...and i don't mind a bit paying whatever she charges.. she's the real deal...She's danm good in fact. Saved my life, actually, verifiably ....at least three times these past 11 years.... and what ever she answers with will be what I will believe in and espouse.

Thanks for your input and your gratuitous acknowledgement.
ptv
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
Now that I come to think of it...as my osc. Lilith isn't conj the 15th degree of Virgo...

So...for me the question isn't moot... but ya' all can do whatcha do...
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
well, I find this intriguing...

...as theV gave me cause to quickly check the position of my osc. lilith and Waldemath's Moon, in my natal chart...and rather than dig around in my files I just figured that it would be a lot quicker to just cast a new chart with just those two entities as to anything else extra.

I left the webpage open and to hang with all the rest I had open and was checking out some of the new postings in the Music Playlist thread... found something nice I had to comment on...then went to close some pages and as I was about to close astrodienst... a small voice , in my mind, said: "Cast a chart for this moment and you'll find it to be of interest..."

I did...that was just a couple of minutes ago...
check it out


. the Part of War for the USA is @ 14* :virgo: 48' 51" and my osc Lilith is @ 11* :libra: 15' 48"....

...hmmmm...?
...go figure...

chart attached
 

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piercethevale

Well-known member
Now, check this out...

I thought back to the day I first proposed any of this on a thread here in the degree symbolism sub-forum and when I thought of calling Clarisse...as one can tell from post #5 at the thread...here's the link:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70032

That little astro-anomaly I'm so fond of watching just for 'shieks and giggles', r.e. "Parsifal", is in the 15th degree of Virgo... conj. the USA's Part of "uknowhat"...and the I.C. of the event chart is in the 20th of Virgo...which is my Part of Sudden Advancement...:andy:


...any questions?:lol:


chart attached
 

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theV

Well-known member
Well, Clarisse is never wrong about what is and what has been...but...

...I may have gotten the wrong impression as to which of those two she was referring to. I'll have to schedule an appointment with her... I did interrupt a reading she was giving for someone this afternoon and said she only picked up the phone as she could see it was a call from me... [made me feel, kinda special...] ...I wouldn't dare press Her twice in the same day...or month if I can absolutely avoid it. [truth is I get maybe two readings a year from her... and a few times a year I ask her for a "mini-reading" ...i.e. 15mins. of Her time... We are friends...known one another almost 11 years as of now. ...and rather close, as I did write that she is a "spiritual confidante" and I know her pretty well...after all i've studied her chart for over ten years. So,even though ewe are good and close, friends...; I acknowledge these readings as a "business transaction" between us. They're not 'Free' ...not all of them, anyways ...and i don't mind a bit paying whatever she charges.. she's the real deal...She's danm good in fact. Saved my life, actually, verifiably ....at least three times these past 11 years.... and what ever she answers with will be what I will believe in and espouse.

Thanks for your input and your gratuitous acknowledgement.
ptv

I wish i could met her She seems like person with a lot of knowledge about astrology
 

theV

Well-known member
There are 4 Lilith

Lilith The asteroid 1181
Osc Lilith (true lilith) H13
Mean Lilith which astro.com displays on the objects opotion
Dark Moon Waldmerth

The right one is the second from what I read in sites "Some people, like Juan Antonio Revilla, believe that she is the most important Lilith and most accurately portrays Lilith’s uncontrollable nature."astrofix.com

and from my observation to some lilithia people including me I think she is the right one

Black Moon in the 1
st

House

Challenges:

The greatest challenges of the shadow are deeply related
to
how we feel about ourselves. The shadow side is ingrained in how we use
our personal energy, what motivates us and our sense of overall well
-
being. Personal appearance or the way we appear to others is often a
major concern. If the shadow is heavily
in control, our behavior patterns
will strongly reflect it. This placement of the Black Moon is intensely
personal and our shadow issues will have a dramatic impact on our lives.

Gift:

The gift of the shadow is the vast amount of personal energy at our
d
isposal. This level of energy can produce fantastic healers and
immensely creative individuals. We can accomplish monumental feats and
have an uncanny ability to turn “negatives” into “positives.”
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
I wish i could met her She seems like person with a lot of knowledge about astrology

She isn't.

As she said to me..."I don't know astrology or anything about it...other than what you tell me about it and I'd rather not know the workings of it as it only will contaminate the process."

She's a tried and true blue Clairvoyant. The best I've ever met and or dealt with personally.
She's online, Clarisse Conner Clairvoyant.
http://www.psychicclarisseconner.com/

The website is so totally cheesey but don't let that fool you... she is the

REAL DEAL

word up
 

theV

Well-known member
I think that Waldemath moon is not intense as Black Moon Lilith The true lilith I feel that lilith is crazier and more intense than pluto somehow, they still share some theme together but their energy is diffrent I feel lilith is more hidden and burried

I have Moon contra parallel Lilith: It is known that Lilith manifest more and intensly when it aspect the moon,the person knows for their instense emotion and uncontrolable feminine energy, the mother is someone who is intense and bit of crazy and unstable, the house is also unstable place and unpleasing they might hate going home

Sun conjunct Lilith/North node Midpoint: The north node is where we heading,the futur,the road we take so we can achieve happiness,the north node is risk that we must take,when those two are combined,[the energy of this midpoint from my knowledge could mean that the person is intense and carries an intense emotional self and life,a person who tends to repress their emotions and are toxicated from the inside,a person with strong sexual nature and could be a victim of sexual abuse,a person whi strong psychic energy ,in this lifetime the person needs to learn to deal with their emotion and avoid swallowing them,person needs to develop a healthy feminine expression,wild or nice, and the useful energy of sexuality], I think my sun activate this midpoint and affect the way the person express themselves could in bad way or good way

Sun conjunct Part of fortune/lilith: It mean someone will find their fortune throught exprience the lilithian theme from regneration,sexuality,independence the sun activate this energy

I also Have Mc square Lilith/asc Midpoint, The Asc/Mc the midpoint of identity and self image it could someone identify with lilithian theme
 
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theV

Well-known member
I also think that Lilith gives an irresistable charisma and ability to seduce,they channel great energy on people that consumes them and lures them,especially if it making with another feminine such as vesta,pallas,hekate,circe midpoint on the ascedant, I would also think the midpoint of Lilith/Charis, Lilith/Peitho gives a strong charisma and personality ability to seduce,the asteroid charis mean charisma,and peitho the seductive
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
had a girlfriend whose Lilith was on my Moon/I.C. ...she has Taurus Moon [24th degree conj. my Part of False Love] conj. Her M.C. ...spot on... The most astounding Green Thumb I have ever even heard of... much less seen...
 

theV

Well-known member
I think that Waldemath moon is not intense as Black Moon Lilith The true lilith I feel that lilith is crazier and more intense than pluto somehow, they still share some theme together but their energy is diffrent I feel lilith is more hidden and burried

I have Moon contra parallel Lilith: It is known that Lilith manifest more and intensly when it aspect the moon,the person knows for their instense emotion and uncontrolable feminine energy, the mother is someone who is intense and bit of crazy and unstable, the house is also unstable place and unpleasing they might hate going home

Sun conjunct Lilith/North node Midpoint: The north node is where we heading,the futur,the road we take so we can achieve happiness,the north node is risk that we must take,when those two are combined,[the energy of this midpoint from my knowledge could mean that the person is intense and carries an intense emotional self and life,a person who tends to repress their emotions and are toxicated from the inside,a person with strong sexual nature and could be a victim of sexual abuse,a person whi strong psychic energy ,in this lifetime the person needs to learn to deal with their emotion and avoid swallowing them,person needs to develop a healthy feminine expression,wild or nice, and the useful energy of sexuality], I think my sun activate this midpoint and affect the way the person express themselves could in bad way or good way

Sun conjunct Part of fortune/lilith: It mean someone will find their fortune throught exprience the lilithian theme from regneration,sexuality,independence the sun activate this energy

I also Have Mc square Lilith/asc Midpoint, The Asc/Mc the midpoint of identity and self image it could someone identify with lilithian theme

I also think that Lilith gives an irresistable charisma and ability to seduce,they channel great energy on people that consumes them and lures them,especially if it making with another feminine such as vesta,pallas,hekate,circe midpoint on the ascedant, I would also think the midpoint of Lilith/Charis, Lilith/Peitho gives a strong charisma and personality ability to seduce,the asteroid charis mean charisma,and peitho the seductive

had a girlfriend whose Lilith was on my Moon/I.C. ...she has Taurus Moon [24th degree conj. my Part of False Love] conj. Her M.C. ...spot on... The most astounding Green Thumb I have ever even heard of... much less seen...

Your ex girl friend sound lilithian to me she has 24 taurus degree which is associated with lilith and this is a dangerous degree,algol or in arabic الغول are terrfying creature the gouls
 
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