Jupiter VS Saturn

Sebastien Cheritte

Well-known member
Is using Jupiter to defeat Saturn a possibility?

Is the position of my natal Jupiter the key to evade my saturn return?
I mean, is that a good idea?

My natal Jupiter is in Sagittarius, in 9th conjunct Uranus & MC.
Saturn is conjunct Pluto in 8th Libra.

Transiting Saturn is 4° conjunct my natal Saturn (approaching)

Is there an escape route? Is it via Jupiter?
Or is there no escape?

And... if i were to escape, would that not defeat the purpose of a saturn return? Is that not the same as running from responsibility?

What's your take on the issue? (everyone?)
 

byjove

Account Closed
Hello!

How nice to see you again! :biggrin:

Yes, these two often work related to the other; a difficult Saturn transit after a happy, Jupiter one...or vice versa.

You're asking natally. Jupiter in the 9th conjunct MC is very prominent. Term, face, triplicity will add and subtract extra dignity - to see exactly how powerful it is. While it's always best to consider these things in the chart as a whole, a well-placed Jupiter in it's natural home of the 9th is a very open-minded, explorative attitude to life, with a penchant for education and philosophical principles. I've noticed such Jupiters underpin a person's philosophy to life, good and bad times.

So you've Saturn return coming up? Well, while a happy natal Jupiter is a great asset, I think you'd need other transits at the same time or after to lift you up.

I do accept that aspects have their place here though. For e.g. I read a wise astrologer say before that a person with natal Sun/Saturn contact are already aware of Saturn's motives when that transit comes. Also, having there's no doubt that indications of depression or negativity in the natal chat won't help now, and the opposite is also true. Will we take a look at your whole chart then? :andy:

Note that Saturn is in late Libra, and will turn retrograde in the near future, lasting in Libra until SEPTEMBER 2012.
 

Sebastien Cheritte

Well-known member
BY JOVE!!! :D

Sure, take a look...
 

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Moog

Well-known member
Is using Jupiter to defeat Saturn a possibility?

Is the position of my natal Jupiter the key to evade my saturn return?
I mean, is that a good idea?

My natal Jupiter is in Sagittarius, in 9th conjunct Uranus & MC.
Saturn is conjunct Pluto in 8th Libra.

Transiting Saturn is 4° conjunct my natal Saturn (approaching)

Is there an escape route? Is it via Jupiter?
Or is there no escape?

And... if i were to escape, would that not defeat the purpose of a saturn return? Is that not the same as running from responsibility?

What's your take on the issue? (everyone?)

My take is that you aren't supposed to 'evade' your Saturn return, it's a necessary growth thing.
 

waybread

Well-known member
You can't "defeat" any of your planets. It's like asking if you can defeat your lungs or your left arm. They are all part of you.

The key is to learn Saturn's lessons. When we haven't, Saturn is the cosmic bill collector, Dr. No, or Mr. Have A. Rottenday. Saturn constructively teaches old-fashioned virtues like hard work, sticking to a plan even when it bores us, getting by on limited resources, and deferred gratification.

With your elevated domiciled Jupiter conjunct Uranus and closely trining your sun, these are not easy lessons for you. But if you merely focus on that good-lookin' Jupiter, Saturn is going to turn around and bite you.

The key is to figure out a way to get the two planets to work together, so that each one gets its needs met. Sort of like a couple with different ideas about how to spend their holiday. If they are smart and loving, they work out a compromise or they "think outside the box" to find a plan they both love.

Uranus-Jupiter in the 9th trine sun in the 5th suggests to me someone who loves travel! So they say "let's go!" while Saturn says, "OK, but can you pay off your credit card before you charge those plane tickets? If not, how can you save up for this trip?" These are doable solutions.

With Saturn-Pluto square Mars in the 5th house, I hope you have some kind of vigorous athletic activity that gives you an outlet for your build-up of frustration/aggression. Something like kick-boxing.

My ex-husband and daughter (b. 1947 and 1983, respectively) both have the Saturn-Pluto conjunction; and while normally they are fine, it can deteriorate into a really foul mood, which is hard for other people to be around. Your conjunction squares Mars (the athlete but also anger) in the house of leisure activities, which is why I thought of an active sport that provides a constructive outlet for you.

Also, it's wide, but your Saturn-Pluto squares your sun, which can embroil you in negative inter-personal power dynamics ("dominate or be dominated") if you don't find a positive outlet for it. Something like working on your black belt in karate. People with sun square Pluto were often bullied as children, or they feel they have to prevail against other people when they get older.

So hey--enjoy your great-looking Jupiter. I'm insanely jealous. But just find ways to develop that Saturn-Pluto constructively. With their 8th house location, this would be a good time to think about some careful investments.
 

waybread

Well-known member
BTW, nobody who lives to the age of 30 "evades" his Saturn return! It is often a time of maturation for people. And that's normally a good thing.
 

JerryRR

Well-known member
Quote.
"....the ancients considered Saturn to be the transmitter of mysteries,the Divine Messenger,....the idea developed that God passed on the message of his Divine Will at every JU/SA conjunction.Jupiter then passed the message on to every planet in the Heavens...."

Rabbi Dobin "The Astrological Secrets of the Hebrew Sages." :cool: Book.

Your JU/SA con 4 Libra in 1981.

J.R.R.
 
Is using Jupiter to defeat Saturn a possibility?

Is the position of my natal Jupiter the key to evade my saturn return?
I mean, is that a good idea? [there is Nooooo escape]:whistling:

My natal Jupiter is in Sagittarius, in 9th conjunct Uranus & MC.
Saturn is conjunct Pluto in 8th Libra. [financial shortages come to my mind?]

Transiting Saturn is 4° conjunct my natal Saturn (approaching)

Is there an escape route? Is it via Jupiter? [we all have to grow up and mature at some point]
Or is there no escape?

And... if i were to escape, would that not defeat the purpose of a saturn return? Is that not the same as running from responsibility?

What's your take on the issue? (everyone?)

When saturn does finally return, I expect your energy levels to plumment and you already have sun square saturn.... Saturn conj pluto can take lots of hard work effort, discipline and can add a ruthless streak, espec where joint finances are concerned.

research your quincunxs
Moon Quincunx (Inconjunct) Saturn

this suggest they will suffer in relationships and couldn't do anything about it and probably won't understand why either...

Your assumptions about life and yourself are colored by your early childhood experience of inconsistency and uncertainty about your parents' roles. They seem to have been reversed. This has left you uncertain as to what to do or what you are capable of in life. As you become more certain as to your true responsibilities in life, your vision clears as to what you can accomplish. This is also the key to becoming more productive. Through accomplishment you can become more knowledgeable as to how your habits and procedures affect the life circumstances in which you find yourself.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/quincunxinterpretations.html

http://www.celestialperspective.com/library/marspluto-aspectswhat-determines-theyre
mars/Pluto aspects by Donna Cunningham

I hope you do something physical the riskier the better, like bungie jumping, mountain climbing, martial arts??


Sometimes these quincunxs are obvious and recognised in personality, other times it can take a lot of self examination to identify with the planets energies and of course they (like all aspects) don't operate 100% of the time, they are simply a facet of your personality.
 
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Sebastien Cheritte

Well-known member
wow, love all posts.

buying a squash rackett - good enough?

just opened a joint account with my girlfriend a few days ago before i posted this.

recently we've been buying alot of things together, we literally share everything. it's hard work. also, i earn less money than she does.

i believe indefinitely she's my juno... since i'm hardly attracted to her, but she's a good woman, and she's worth working out a life with.

about the quincunx astro50, its a painful debt.

I'm also looking after my father in greece from the UK, he's battling financially, i'm trying to keep myself down, "nose to the grindstone", i'll do it. i have to. i want to. i don't want to run. i just asked this because i heard someone mention its the way to smoothen the saturn return. but saturn is a hard mofo and i reckon its not as easy as that, since my financial situation isn't allowing me to travel at the moment. it's only forcing me to work harder, work longer, less breaks, more work, work work and more work. also, authorities don't seem to dislike me, but they are hard on me.. anger becomes a big problem here.. mars square you say?

well, i will have to actually invest in that squash rackett. i will have to make an effort to actually PLAY squash - since its the only place i have access to at the moment, out in the sticks..

thank you all, anyway. (bow)
 

byjove

Account Closed

Hey Seb,

well, if I understood you correctly, you're not pretending your Saturn return isn't happening, but instead maybe looking for mitigating aspects/features in your chart to help you through the Saturn return, and you're asking if Jupiter can help you here.

With that in mind, and having had a look at your chart, I'd say that you will find great help in the saturn return threads. I also think that people there might very well mention other transits such as jupiter etc. which came before or after the saturn return, or other natal positions which helped them on the way through the return. Jupiter is transiting Taurus, passing from your 2nd to 3rd house. How has your TR Jupiter in 2nd been?

I note your Saturn return will be happening in your 8th house, which you've already mentioned to be a source of ...activity and strain. So I'd check out advice on the saturn return threads straight away! :rightful:

Relating to your Jupiter, I think your Jupiter/Sun trine probably won't help you here. I think that's an example of a 'positive' aspect which sometimes doesn't help; if big change is on the horizon (as frequently is during saturn return) then it could mean that you act a little too optimistically or believe in the best when more serious attention is required. However, I think that Jupiter in Sagg in the 9th, overall, is still an asset. :)
 
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MaeMae

Banned
i believe indefinitely she's my juno... since i'm hardly attracted to her, but she's a good woman, and she's worth working out a life with.

/QUOTE]

that's a good take on how to let jupiter and saturn work together. limits that don't get in the way of growth. willingness to grow despite limits.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
It might be a tad late to post on this, but don't always see malefic planets as negative and benefics as positive. There is a little bit of discussion about Jupiter on this thread and some discussion about being Saturninian on this thread (when it gets to enneagrams) and the one it links to.

I agree that jupiter may be mostly beneficial, but you certainly pay a price...it inflates you, makes you "bigger" than you really are in your mind, that is why so many jupiterians get so much of the pie...they believe they will, they never contemplate that they may not. Too much pie makes us ill and bloated and boring. Quite nice to learn to work hard for the things that you desire.

I'd say that you should balance out Saturn and Jupiter in a way that works for you.
 

Moog

Well-known member
I agree that jupiter may be mostly beneficial, but you certainly pay a price...it inflates you, makes you "bigger" than you really are in your mind, that is why so many jupiterians get so much of the pie...they believe they will, they never contemplate that they may not. Too much pie makes us ill and bloated and boring. Quite nice to learn to work hard for the things that you desire.



That's how you get literal 'fat cats'

Jupiter isn't always so benefic, it can get out of control and excessive. And Saturn isn't always necessarily a bad thing
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
That's how you get literal 'fat cats'

Jupiter isn't always so benefic, it can get out of control and excessive. And Saturn isn't always necessarily a bad thing

I'm waiting for someone to come in who isn't Saturninian... But I totally agree on the 'fat cats' bit. I'll also add in: drug addicts, lazy people (like people who won't work or have discipline to save their life,) debtors, gamblers, escapists (but not non-self-imposed illusions)... You want me to go on? What can Saturn do that's worse than that? I say that the best planet is Mercury. It's so neutral plus it can make good jokes!
 

Sebastien Cheritte

Well-known member
Looking back at all of this, Saturn now in 9th, not yet in Sagittarius, but getting closer to a conjunction with Jupiter.

I moved mountains, for the woman who was my girlfriend, my Juno i called her. I married her. It's our anniversary a few days ago and again i moved mountains to make a beautiful day for us. To be honest, i didn't use any of Jupiter's traits to rise through those close thorns in that very black & dry forrest, i faced it all. Manned the **** up. I didn't mention it then, but there was something about that whole event that i just never mentioned, because i simply didn't know what my challenge was going to be.

I was to embark on a journey of unemployment, or over-employment, where at either end one of us wouldn't be working and all expenses would land on the other. It was an ongoing gut wrenching slug all the way out of the swamp.

Finally, i realise. the battle isn't over. There will be no cherries for me yet. The war continues. The boxing withers as i've been trying for the past 3 years to obtain a boxing license after all the training and a gruelling 2 and half year struggle to reach the lightweight division so my gym mates will actually accept a fight with me as most of them are middle & light middle weights. The prospect of doing karate has become more beneficial to my progress as a fighter with the class being more of the same weight group.

interesting how someone can work so hard at something only to realise that it's not what they were working towards, or what they want at all.
I've started Karate.

So, in closing. My marriage is upto now, with Juno, a happy one. I've managed to find my best friend, love her enough to choose a life with her and what do you know, all our goals are in the same direction. It's been hard, but looking back at this thread. I didn't know how much work i was going to put into it. I see what growing up is about. And now i understand the difference between people who can hang on an easy Jupiter, or learn to discipline themselves into adulthood with Saturn.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Don Quijote was brim-full of Faith, Hope and Enthusiasm.
He mounted Rocinante and set out to defeat the Windmills.
All he got for his trouble was a good drubbing.
But of course Don Quijote was deluded..

And so are you.

I suggest you contact NASA and have them send a giant nuclear weapon to Saturn and blow him out of the sky. Then and only then will you be free of his influence. Or perhaps not.

At risk of repeating myself
Pain and travail are necessary for our health and welfare
The boy or girl who runs from pain is a fool.

Grow up.

When I was a sophomore in high school
I read this line from Shakespeare:
Cowards die many times before their death. The valiant taste of death but once.

P.S. -- Cervantes wrote Don Quijote de la Mancha while in prison (Saturn).

P.P.S. -- I am 72 years old. Old age is ruled by Saturn. (That sophomore year was long, long ago...but now I have been promoted to the senior class, again Saturn).
And it ain't all roses and clover. But like all of my ancient friends I say...
I would not want to be young again. It's much better, hands down, where I'm at, despite the pains and the weakness and the bleak outlook (Saturn rules death).
Saturn is my friend.
 
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Cactus

Well-known member
I don't think the sarcasm in the reply above was necessary, when it seems he has said he's grown up. It doesn't sound like delusion to me. But that's my opinion and of course others may differ.

And I respect other opinions. I just have a hard time with sarcasm when the OP's responses didn't warrant any, that's all.


It's been hard, but looking back at this thread. I didn't know how much work i was going to put into it. I see what growing up is about. And now i understand the difference between people who can hang on an easy Jupiter, or learn to discipline themselves into adulthood with Saturn.
 
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