Is there a will? If so, where is it? - HELP!

heretolearn

Well-known member
I just cast my first horary chart. I hope I've done it right. Looking for some missing documents for a late relative. I don't even know whether they exist. Please tell me what the horary shows. I hope the chart I cast is valid. Thanks in advance!

ETA: The document, specifically, is a will.
 

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hypatia

Well-known member
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

[edited to delete my comment - obviously my comment wasn't welcome by the author of this thread... I withdraw totally from this thread]
 
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fensi88

Well-known member
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

You have degrees/minutes down on the left side of the pic.
 

heretolearn

Well-known member
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

I find it very hard to look at as there are no degrees/minutes for the planets. I tried to run the chart myself, but there's no location given.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. The signs and degrees for each planet appears in the table right below the chart wheel. :confused:
 

heretolearn

Well-known member
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

As I said, this is my first time posting in the horary thread. It's not apparent that the information you seek is something required based on the FAQ, and the thread you linked also gives conflicting views on this.

Prior to creating this thread, I first went through the posting information here:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/faq.php?faq=horary#faq_horary_astrology_boards
and looked at some already posted threads as examples before I made the post. The examples I viewed showed a chart wheel. Nothing regarding planetary speed appears anywhere in the FAQ.

I'm attaching additional images, but it's not clear that this data you seek is critical for interpretation for a first-timer working from the FAQ.
 

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venuschild

Banned
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

hypatia

I find it very hard to look at as there are no degrees/minutes for the planets. I tried to run the chart myself, but there's no location given.

Amen!

I'm just wondering if the artist knows:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130327010651AAj3K7w

http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/lesson1/lesson1.html

http://www.chrisbrennanastrologer.com/astrological-consultations/horary-astrology-questions/

William Lilly, Christian Astrology II, p. 166-167

"Of the time of receiving any Q U E S T I O N.

It hath been disputed largely amongst the Arabians, who were excellent in the resolution of Horary Questions, what time the Astrologer should take for the ground of his Question, whether that time when the Querent first comes into ones House or Closet, or first salutes the Artist, whether that is to be admitted for the most proper time or erecting a Figure, and giving Judgement thereupon. Though some have consented to this opinion, yet I could never be satisfied herein either with reason or experience: for let us admit one comes to demands a Resolution of me, and we converse together a good while; but in the end, some occasion intervenes, and we depart: I hope no sound Judgment will allow of this time to be the Radix of a Question (whenas none is really demanded) viz. at what time he first saw me, or entered my house and speake with me.
Without doubt the true houre of receiving any Question is then, when the Querent propounds his desire unto the Astrologer, even that very moment of time, in my opinion, is to be accepted: for let us suppose a Letter is sent or delivered unto me, wherein I am desired to resolve some doubts; perhaps I receive the Letter into my hands at three of clock in any day of the week, but in regard of some occasions, doe not read it untill four or five hours after; that very hour and minute of hour when I break it open, and perceive the intention of the Querent, is the time to which I ought to erect my Figure, and from thence to draw mine Astrologicall Judgment: This way and manner have I practised, and found successe answerable: And whereas Bonatus and some others doe give warning that the Astrologian judge not his owne Question, and say he cannot tell how to accept of a question from himselfe; this I conceive was his reason, Because he thought the Artist would be partiall to himselfe in his judgment: Verily I am of a contrary opinion and have found by many experiments, that at what hour the mind or intention of the Astrologer is heavily perplexed with, or concerning the successe of any matter wherein himselfe is really concerned, I say he may with great reason accept of that hour for the true time of erecting his Scheame of Heaven, and he may (if not partiall) as well judge of that Figure erected by himselfe, as of any other; but herein I advised him to lay aside all love and partiality unto his owne Cause."

Are you the artist, Heretolearn, or the querant and Not an artist?
 
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venuschild

Banned
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

heretolearn

s noted by another poster, the information hypatia sought was in fact available all along.

Methinks you are but a troll. Good day.

I'd love to see how they got the speeds of planets without the latitudes and longitudes, their formulae for I in my ignorance do NOT have a Phd in mathematics or statistics; perhaps they could be gallant enough to share their methodology on this thread or that of another.

Or post a thread as to how they arrive at this minus lattitude and longitude? Perhaps the answer is algebraically found in the Sidereal time or universal time which I do not have at present the geometry equation or algebra skills to fathom out the riddle of planetary speeds without the co-ordinates!

Decades ago, the first book I read on astrology was Julia and Derek Parker's The Complete Astrologer. Of which I tried to calculate a horoscope from what was in the book, I could not understand it as if it were written for die-hard astrologers to comprehend so I took an astrology course that taught me well.

I assure you I am Not being a troll, and we all know, or should that many times when one does not like the opinions of the other, they call them crazy, troll, idiot, whatever! This is meant in humility not in chastisement.

If you have studied the 13th century Latin giant of an astrologer, Bonatti you may have picked up that he didn't consider that horary artists should judge their own hoaries which Lilly violated and it is very evident in CAII, under fourth house questions, Master B's houses, that Lilly wanted to have these houses so badly that he twisted his analysis some.

And as you study horary more as I'm continually learning you'll see when we are the actual querant and artist we want it our way and can be as Bonatus stated very biased that our horary comes out to our liking which skews our analysis many times.



bonatti.gif


This may explain where I'm coming from if everyone can bear in mind there is a lunation going on presently, a new moon going on at present and that is Not a good omen; yet the most adept can use it wisely!

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_questions.html

And I would ask you in total humility, not arrogance, but sincerity for a just verdict, judgment of any horary to reflect upon the third paragraph of the following website; it gives some in depth insight to horary you may appreciate.


http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/lesson1/lesson1.html

And this work by Deborah Houlding is noteworthy as well:

http://theafi.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/deborah-houlding_questioning-our-horaries.pdf


Please re-think this, for you have Neptune in the 3rd of this horary and it's confusing for us and you, but re-think your question because it appears vague, confused, as if you haven't truly asked a question. Can you see my point?

Note, Jupiter the documents are in CAZIMI, which Lilly says:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/special-horary/cazimi.php

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5089

http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/aphor/aphor.html

Aphorism #26:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A Planet within 12 degrees of the Sun, is said to be under his Beames, and then hath not fortitude, let it be in what Signe it will; when a Planet is within 16 minutes of the Sun, he is said to be in Cazimi, or heat of the Sun, and then it's an addition of fortune, and he is wonderous strong.[/FONT]


So even though Neptune(3H) is a little confusing in your question(???) I'm thinking since Jupiter is both you and the quesited the documents in question, then again it's muddled, but being Cazimi they are safe! SMILE, querant God must love you on this one!

And note Deb Houlding utilizes Outer planets yet they DO NOT rule houses according to this document:


http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_intro.html
 
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Vista

Well-known member
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

I would be interested in hearing more about what other horary astrologers think about the missing documents.
 

heretolearn

Well-known member
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

Since posting my horary chart, I've done a bit more reading on the subject. As my first attempt at horary, I realize there were some issues that needed to be clarified.

The question: Is there a will? (If yes, where?)
This is an important clarification since documents are ruled by House 3, according to what I've read since posting this chart, and wills are ruled by House 8. This was the question asked all along but at the time that posted this chart, I was not aware that horary made a distinction between the two.

Here are the GIS coordinates for the place where the question was asked:
40.0176° N, 105.2797° W

This is NOT the same place where the will may potentially be, if it exists at all.

If anyone can offer any assistance, it would be appreciated. Thanks for looking.
 

fensi88

Well-known member
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

I would use turned 3 house ruler from 7th for that document/Mercury, because it was not in your possetion, it is in possetion of other person. As Me rule 7th house too, that means document is in possetion of the young person/or 2 young persons, about 18 years. They are West from the place where you asked the question and they are near some brook, lake, canal, ditch, river, ocean, pool of water, fire hydrant...As Moon/you will conjunct Me that means you will get that document for about 6 time units, in best case days, but probably weeks.
 

venuschild

Banned
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

Heretolearn

It is my understanding that you may be a horary artist and this is your first attempt at horary.

And if you are only a querant and Not an artist who has put forth thousands of hours or pages studying horary this horary becomes very monumental for the sake of the art!

Why?

Because many writers of horary antiquity claim that when a planet is Cazimi, less than 17 minutes as your lost item is Cazimi it is in a very blessed condition!

Because may studious horary artists believe that an artist must be asked and a querant can Not calculate their own horoscope it is up to the horary artist only as in:


http://gryphonastrology.com/blog/2014/03/12/how-to-ask-horary-questions/

http://gryphonastrology.com/blog/tag/bonatti/

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_questions.html

But there is great dessention in these times as the switch is made as we regress into the Age of Aquarius by the procession of the equinox as to who should in earnest calculate and put forth the horoscope!

So please help us out in interpretation and tell us the outcome for yours may be a monumental symbolic landmark in horary practice because cazimi is in the state of the item!

However if this is not the case, Cazimi is not there because the old standard of which Bonatti spoke of so strongly and Lilly borrowed from then it won't or can not happen as such!
 

heretolearn

Well-known member
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

Hi fensi88, thank you for your response. I can see the reasons why you have given the interpretation you provided, but I am not sure how to apply that to the situation at hand.
The place where I asked the question is West of the possible location by greater than 1K miles, and I know of no young person who might be involved, though I can see the astrological basis for your assertion, though this is my first attempt at horary.
I shall give additional information and my very amateur interpretation in a subsequent post.
 

heretolearn

Well-known member
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

Heretolearn

It is my understanding that you may be a horary artist and this is your first attempt at horary.
Hello again, venuschild. I am still not quite sure what you mean by "horary artist." This is in fact the very first horary chart I have ever cast. I have studied astrology for some time, but only somewhat basic work in natal and synastry chart interpretation. So while I might have something of a foundation in understanding basic astrology concepts, that is not the case for horary. I am very much a beginner.
And if you are only a querant and Not an artist who has put forth thousands of hours or pages studying horary this horary becomes very monumental for the sake of the art!

Why?

Because many writers of horary antiquity claim that when a planet is Cazimi, less than 17 minutes as your lost item is Cazimi it is in a very blessed condition!

Because may studious horary artists believe that an artist must be asked and a querant can Not calculate their own horoscope it is up to the horary artist only as in:


http://gryphonastrology.com/blog/2014/03/12/how-to-ask-horary-questions/

http://gryphonastrology.com/blog/tag/bonatti/

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_questions.html
Again, I'm not certain what you mean by "artist." I do know the definition of Cazimi and do see Jupiter's position that is a mere 3 minutes away from the Sun as qualifying.
So please help us out in interpretation and tell us the outcome for yours may be a monumental symbolic landmark in horary practice because cazimi is in the state of the item!

However if this is not the case, Cazimi is not there because the old standard of which Bonatti spoke of so strongly and Lilly borrowed from then it won't or can not happen as such![/SIZE]
So I contemplated this question for some length of time before casting the chart. We are talking a considerable amount of time. When I entered all of my information, I firmly contemplated the question while clicking the button to create the chart. The result is the chart I attached.
 

heretolearn

Well-known member
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

As I said before, I am new to horary. Using the Regio House system, and with the PoF included, I am not certain whether the item I am asking about even exists because it is in XII.

The Asc is in Sagittarius, whose ruler is Jupiter. Jupiter in VIII, in Leo, 3 minutes from the Sun. The state of Jupiter here, had it been slightly further from the Sun, would have been combust, as well as afflicted. That is NOT the case, as it is Cazimi, but it would have shown my concern that perhaps the item had been destroyed. Now, like I said before, I don't even know whether the item exists. But for the rest of the interpretation, I assume it is in order to try to determine where it might be. Giving more attention to Saturn in Scorpio, it is in XI- the house of friends... which suggests perhaps the dwelling/item is in the possession of a friend.

Looking at the chart, most of the planets are located in water signs. This suggested to me the possibility that the item was located somewhere near water, or somewhere associated with water within a house, such as a sink, laundry. Another possibility would be a home near water, since the Moon is in Cancer, but I am not aware of such a dwelling related to this item.

The populated water signs suggest a direction N/N/W...

Saturn is in Scorpio and PoF is also in the same sign, but XII. If the item exists, this suggests it is dark/hidden.

I go back again to Cancer to figure out what sort of "thing" might contain the item, and the sign suggests something related to the feminine/a woman's thing. Mercury is in Cancer, so perhaps this supports them being there, but I will proffer another interpretation later. The position of the Moon suggests that the documents were earlier in the possession of a woman ruled by Libra. If so, this would be correct, as the deceased was a Libra. But the positioning suggest the item may pass to a sibling or a woman ruled by Gemini. If sibling ruled by Gemini, that person is also deceased so no help there.

I think it is significant that the third house is occupied by Neptune. I will interpret it here as lies/illusion/deception. It is entirely possible, I think, that the documents never existed, isn't it? Neptune in House III, documents are but a dream. Or is this really a House VIII matter?
Looking again at Neptune, it is heavily aspected in the chart, with flowing trines to nearly all other planets in the chart. So maybe the documents did exist. What of it then? If documents did exist, trine to Venus, Moon (maybe wide orb Mercury) in Cancer could mean that there is deception on the part of female(s). House VII cusp is in Gemini, ruled by Mercury. Mercury certainly rules over documents... but also thieves.

Since I am new, I do not know if this is valid horary technique, so I have no idea if this would be a valid interpretation, but flowing aspects indicate there is nothing there to stop them from deception.
 

venuschild

Banned
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

In humility note, I have NOT read your last post, but not out of disrespect!

Yet your prior one tells me you are a DEVOUT astrologer, yet not a dyed in the wool horary artist, totally dedicated, and on the path to wisdom from the stars.

What is a horary artist?

http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/lesson1/lesson1.html

http://tonylouis.wordpress.com/2012/10/14/a-horary-glossary/

http://www.stellium.dk/horargb.htm

24649.jpg


christian_astrology_1659.jpg


http://www.skyscript.co.uk/elwell1.html

http://www.astrogasm.com/2013/12/16...a-specialized-branch-of-astrology-astrologer/

Do NOT think I'm in any way being a Smart Aleck, but I know now this is your first attempt at horary and you may have not read much on horary lore but only sought horary advice.

When you have diligently studied:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/texts.html

http://www.astrologiamedieval.com/tabelas/Henry_Coley_Key_to_the_Whole_Art_of_Astrology.pdf

http://www.astrologiamedieval.com/tabelas/William_Lilly_Christian_Astrology.pdf

You will totally understand what an artist is, why they insist upon doing horary correctly, and who the fakes are, ...you have met some that we well know!
 
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astr0quest

Well-known member
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

You are Jupiter, cazimi and powerful. Sun is conjuncting and 8th house ruler. I suppose the inheritance will make you powerful. Or you are very aware of something in it. But you and Sun are both intercepted in the 8th house. Blocked from expression.


Your relative is your mother's sister. Mother will be 10th. Sister will be her turned 3rd. So she is (12th) Mars significator.

Mars is in Libra, last degree. Also in detriment, very weak.
Mars has square with Jupiter (you). I am not sure you and her are on good terms.

Will will be her turned 8th house (7th). Significator is Mercury in Cancer in 7th house. So it could be near water places (bathroom, kitchen etc).


Moon is natural significator of lost item. Moon's last aspect would be with Venus. I think that would be your mother (10th) or 6th (care takers?) or 7th (her partner). Ask if she knows.

Then moon opposite Pluto, squares Uranus before conjuncting Mercury.

Mercury inside 7th, it could also mean it's taken by a 7th house person like your partner if any. Moon is also his turned 2nd house. I think it may suggest he searches for it.

Not sure if this helps.
 
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venuschild

Banned
Re: Looking for important missing documents- HELP!

heretolearn

Hello again, venuschild. I am still not quite sure what you mean by "horary artist." This is in fact the very first horary chart I have ever cast. I have studied astrology for some time, but only somewhat basic work in natal and synastry chart interpretation. So while I might have something of a foundation in understanding basic astrology concepts, that is not the case for horary. I am very much a beginner.

After one has studied horary for any length of time one knows a horary artist is an astrologer who is consulted to do the horary.

It's alright as Astr0quest has confirmed that the documents, Jupiter is Cazimi, they are protected, safe and shall turn up, they are blessed if we can utilize this horary since you aren't an artist! Provided this is a worthy methodology

If they never turn up it gives valuable ground to the old vanguard artist's conclusion:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_questions.html

http://gryphonastrology.com/blog/tag/divination/

http://gryphonastrology.com/blog/2014/03/12/how-to-ask-horary-questions/

http://theafi.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/deborah-houlding_questioning-our-horaries.pdf

What am I getting at?

Guildo Bonatti, a great Latin horary artist of the 13th century, stated in his Considerations(1&2):

"1. The 1st, is to observe what it is that moves a person to propose or ask a question of an Astrologer; where we must take notice of three motions: the First, of the mind, when a man is stirred up in his thoughts and bath an intent to enquire; a Second, of the superiour and celestial bodies; so that they at that time imprint on the thing enquired after, what shall become of it; the Third, of the free will which disposes him to the very act of enquiring; for although the mind be moved to enquire, 'tis not enough unless the superiour bodies sympathize therewith; nor is such motion of the stars enough, unless by the election of his will the person does actually enquire.

2. The 2nd consideration is (what we hinted at before) the method or manner everyone ought to observe that enquires of an Astrologer; which is, that when he intends to take an artist's judgment of things past, present, or to come, he should, first, with a devout spirit, pray unto the Lord, from whom proceeds the success of every lawful enterprise, that he would grant him the knowledge of those things of the truth of which he would be resolved; and then let him apply himself to the astrologer with a serious intent of being satisfied in some certain and particular doubt, and this not on trifling occasions, or light sudden emotions, much less on matters base or unlawful, as many ignorant people used to do; but in matters of honest importance, and such as have possessed and disturbed his mind for the space of a day and night or longer; unless in sudden accidents which admit not of delay"

Notice Bonatus says one asks an astrologer, implying an horary artist, Not a querant setting up their own horary chart as so many are doing in these times!

PLEASE I'm in no way being insulting, I'm trying to state how it was done by the most devout horary artists of their time.

If you find it, the documents so easily I'd say your horary has merit about what many contemporary artists approve of and it gives them extra points.

If Not, I'd say it is because Guildo Bonatti and those I cited must have something on the camp of artists who go against the grain contrasted to those who are seen to know.

So please keep us posted, I'm open to new ideas and challenging the vanguard as William Ramesey did in his book, Astrologia Munda.
 
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