Is pluto the devil?

[Munch]

I read that too about the rubber band and I agree.

I 'lost' because I chose to let go and not push it any further, so we'll see if the opposite affect is true, lol.

I won, because I did stand up for myself and thus I feel better about continuing to do so and as I work on this I shall hone this skill so that it can be used decisively and effectively as opposed to clumsily and sporadically.

Pluto is on my IC, squaring my natal Saturn/Jupiter conjunction in the 1st house exactly. Pluto is also within 4 degrees of my natal sun and I am feeling a bit of a 'warming' affect so to speak. It actually feels rather strong despite the wide orb, and I figure its because my angles are involved. Uranus and the Sun were conjunct my descendant, square my IC/MC axis and Saturn had been retrograding over my natal POF and Pluto respectively when I didn't 'lose' my job but got kicked down to 'on call.' *rolls eyes in chagrin*

I feel like this: and so much more. Yes, Neptune feelings are fleeting.

 

[MaeMae]

munch ~ let her roar!
it's never about destroying as much as it is rebirth.
pluto.
that's why this devil = pluto thought is boggling.
pluto only offers death to cowards and idiots (war). they didn't uphold the purpose of continuing life.

 

[Munch]

munch ~ let her roar!
it's never about destroying as much as it is rebirth.
pluto.
that's why this devil = pluto thought is boggling.
pluto only offers death to cowards and idiots (war). they didn't uphold the purpose of continuing life.

Agreed! I freakin heart you Mae Mae. And don't let anyone know that I said that because I am a Capricorn and not supposed to heart anyone. Shhh. lol.

Also, there was one other thing in the chart that at the time the incident began ( 3 day period). My natal Chiron which is exactly trine my sun was on the exact midpoint of Transiting Venus and Jupiter in Taurus in my 8th house.

I feel like this played a huge role in me stepping up for myself. (Just a random side note that popped into my head cos that's how my noggin works)

 

[nemesis]

If we're going to relate Hades to the Devil (which Hades is not) then what about Jupiter/Zeus? He's married to his sister, cheats on her constantly and rapes women. Is this a "good" planet by that definition alone? I would hope not... Most of the greek mythology gods weren't exactly innocents or always perfect beings.
Hades isn't an antagonist, he doesn't wish for people to "sin" or try an get people's souls so they come down to the underworld with him either. In Greek mythology Hades is not thought of as "evil".

I mean the Devil is a fallen angel so they say so technically he is still an angel and couldn't that mean that any angel has the potential to be "evil"?

I'm not an atheist but I wouldn't label myself as any specific religion either. I respect other people's belief and hope they respect mine.

so this is believed I'm going to c&p from wikipedia:

The term hades in Christian theology (and in New Testament Greek) is parallel to Hebrew sheol (שאול, grave or dirt-pit), and refers to the abode of the dead. The Christian concept of hell is more akin to and communicated by the Greek concept of Tartarus, a deep, gloomy part of hades used as a dungeon of torment and suffering.
In older Greek myths, the realm of Hades is the misty and gloomy abode of the dead (also called Erebus), where all mortals go. There were several sections of the realm of Hades, including Elysium, the Asphodel Meadows, and Tartarus.

I'm tired so that's about all I have to say right now but I do hope certain people stop getting angry at me. I'm certainly not upset over what other's think on this thread. I'm also glad I can't get online enough to see what the mods are deleting yeesh.

 

[tokyo.lights]

Lol, yes! I agree, Pluto is the devil himself (or herself?) Hmm...

Haha Glad someone agrees. And it's just drifted about 3-4 degrees away from my Venus, all of a sudden I feel I can BREATHE. Uranus is about to take its place with a conjunction! Like a caged tormented bird set free, feels good to stretch those wings.

 

[Neptune Rising]

I guess it depends on personal interpretation. I just had Pluto/Moon both in transit and in double progression. No devil in sight for this lass... Lol! It was an interesting journey. Ha, sure there were days when I felt enclosed and would try to do anything to avoid my own company, and I am a freedom and fun loving Sag rising, luckily I have something to fall back on, is the wisdom I found within myself during my 10 day silent meditation retreats. During times of retreat, it is best to do just that, retreat. No devils around the corner chasing me with their heated prongs... I accepted the signs of the Pluto/Moon transits for what they are, a chance to really get to know myself instead of avoiding this intimate connection that was presented to me. Heck, I am usually too busy lately to spend some quality time with myself, really understanding and feeling how I tick. I am thankful for the chance to recognise my authentic self, and that much more empowered from the experience.

In the career that I am now following and how I want to develop, yoga teaching and yoga therapy, I need to truly understand people, on a deep level - not superficial. At least, this is my view of what I want from any yoga teacher that I go to. My various aches and pains that come up from time to time, no doubt stem from a much deeper source, and I look to the roots rather than just the surface to find the cause beyond the symptoms. In order to do this, I need to understand my roots on a deep level. I know of no other planet that can reveal the roots to me on the most authentic level. Neptune merges, Uranus flashes of insight, all are welcome but Pluto is the link to the roots, in this sense. And whether someone is a yoga teacher, a tai chi teacher, a coal mine worker or a mc Donales kiosk worker, self-understanding and self-acceptance is a gem and prevents others manipulating you. But then, it's a life lesson that comes in its own time.

 

[stainedBlue]

I've had transit Pluto conjunct my natal Sun, Neptune and Mercury all in the 4th house for some time now. Lucky me, Pluto will retrograde soon and smack all of them again (natal Sun won't get the exact conjunction, but it'll be less than 1 orb of it), and then go direct and do it again. A lot has happened during the first round, and it has been intense, but it's been for the better and I knew that all along despite not knowing what was happening. And it was actually around the time Pluto was within orb of natal Mercury that I started seriously focusing on astrology. Quite fitting, I think.

There isn't any insight I can give for the experience of the conjunctions yet, aside from the fact that it's been incredibly exhausting on all levels. I'm still reflecting on what I've experienced thus far. I can see that I've been much more in tune, much more aware, and I've become much more true to myself as a result of the transit, but that's only a cursory description. It's all been very intense, and I'm loving it -- perhaps that's my Mars speaking, though. It's very likely others would find the intensity of these transits to be quite unpleasant. Personally I enjoy digging deep and facing what's been buried whether it's shining or horrendous. I want to dig as deep as it takes to reach that fire and die to be reborn anew like the Phoenix.

 

[nemesis]

It's all been very intense, and I'm loving it -- perhaps that's my Mars speaking, though. It's very likely others would find the intensity of these transits to be quite unpleasant. Personally I enjoy digging deep and facing what's been buried whether it's shining or horrendous. I want to dig as deep as it takes to reach that fire and die to be reborn anew like the Phoenix.

Having Pluto conjunct my Mars and Venus natally among it touching on a few other of my planets (though not as strong aspects so I won't mention them all). I've always enjoyed digging into subjects and people heh. Not everyone is fond of that though and people have told me I scare them and I am certainly not intimidating looking at all lol. Just a natural intensity I have I suppose thanks to Pluto.
I dig deep into myself too which I think has made me a much more confident person.

I think it's great and more people should try an dig deeper.

I always thought of Saturn as a bad aspect in my chart seeing as it's conjunct my Sun and Mercury. But the more I realised what Saturn has done for me I cannot be more happy it's there. When I was a kid growing up I have no doubt Saturn stopped me from doing a lot of stupid things. Saturn still is and will help me from that and much more I've no doubt.

 

[stainedBlue]

Having Pluto conjunct my Mars and Venus natally among it touching on a few other of my planets (though not as strong aspects so I won't mention them all). I've always enjoyed digging into subjects and people heh. Not everyone is fond of that though and people have told me I scare them and I am certainly not intimidating looking at all lol. Just a natural intensity I have I suppose thanks to Pluto.
I dig deep into myself too which I think has made me a much more confident person.

How has your experience been with the expression of those aspects to Pluto? I'm particularly interested in the way your Mars is expressed in the conjunction, since it's in Libra if I recall correctly? In my own chart I have Pluto square Venus, which seems to be good at attracting intense, 'fated' relationships (romantic and otherwise) to help me transform my already 'lofty' Venus in Aquarius. Both Pluto and Mars are sitting comfortably in Scorpio, though not conjunct. You could say I'm a 'subtly intense' person, as I do seem to carry a presence. There's something fierce beneath the surface which others seem to sense and find unsettling, even insidious. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is, I suppose.

 

[nemesis]

How has your experience been with the expression of those aspects to Pluto? I'm particularly interested in the way your Mars is expressed in the conjunction, since it's in Libra if I recall correctly? In my own chart I have Pluto square Venus, which seems to be good at attracting intense, 'fated' relationships (romantic and otherwise) to help me transform my already 'lofty' Venus in Aquarius. Both Pluto and Mars are sitting comfortably in Scorpio, though not conjunct. You could say I'm a 'subtly intense' person, as I do seem to carry a presence. There's something fierce beneath the surface which others seem to sense and find unsettling, even insidious. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is, I suppose.

Yep they're all in Libra actually pluto, mars and venus form a stellium in my 6th. Pluto conjunct my mars I think gives me extra focus probably too much really. I can totally get lost in something or even someone when I am interested. If I like someone I wanna know all about them and sometimes I'll end up seeming like a detective or something but I do not mean to be. When I like someone or something I just wanna know all about them or it ^.^
I always defend myself and am pretty bad with authority =/ I hate seeing injustice and I get very protective of my friends. I can be more scorpion in the sense of being quite a private person unless I feel safe enough to open up to you.
In love it is definitely all or nothing with me and I can be very particular in my likes and dislikes. Not picky persay just very hmmm not sure the right word for it but I can tell pretty quickly if I'm going to be into a guy or not.
I can be very misunderstood.
Ah yeah especially with my uranus in scorpio on my 7th/DC in scorpio I tend to have very intense yet unconventional relationships. I wouldn't say mine are fated but definitely unconventional. Although I have learned to become a lot more wary before stepping right into the deep end.
I really need a certain kind of equality in a relationship too in the sense that I just know I am meaningful to them as much as they are to me.
I do see/feel that in you but I do not see it as a bad thing or something I'd shy away from. You do not intimidate me but yeah I can see how others would feel that way or be off-put by it cause I get that too. So I really understand that and do not feel anykind of insidious vibe from you.

I'd probably go into this more but I have to sign off also some things I'd rather not go into on a public thread

 

[Neptune Rising]

We are wandering a bit from the topic now. But to come back to the topic, I thought the other day, after my period of Pluto/Moon double progression last summer (my natal Moon is in Pisces square Neptune/north node), I did truly transform through that transit. I can truly now say, the illusions I had about various things were truly wiped away, I can look at those same things in my life but now I see them clearly. I feel my feet are much more on the ground now.

If the devil as in 'diabolos' means 'to seperate', (as mentioned in a post some way back in this thread), which makes sense to me, then Pluto does far the opposite. If anything, it 'unites'. Those times I found best to spend in meditation - not crossed legged with a stick of incense (though I did at times do that), but also during daily life to be totally present and aware, to observe my own reactions to the internal stuff that was coming up, to observe my reactions to the world around me. That process was a process of yoga (meaning to 'unite' - individual self with universal self), which brought me very much into the present, the here and now. There is a tarot card in the Osho Zen deck called "Beyond Illusion", while I know I'm not totally there, Im very much more there than I was before that Pluto/Moon double progression/transit.

 

[tokyo.lights]

I will say Pluto's only redeeming quality is bringing death to things we no longer need. For example if it squares or opposes Venus it will bring death to a stagnant relationship that's been dragged on for a while, I've seen it happen to someone. There was a great imbalance to the relationship, the power was not equal, they were being manipulated, controlled and brainwashed by their partner. Pluto being the "justice" planet, it shook the relationship up for the first time, and took it apart. It was brutal to witness. At least with the submissive party, their Venus is aspecting Uranus now, so they may finally learn to move on. Their Venus is the same degree as mine, except I broke up with my partner at the start of the Pluto transit, and the entire time I realized how much I missed him. So it brought strength to something already solid. I guess if you play fair, you wont have to worry about Pluto. I still don't like it, especially what happened when it hit my 10th. That biatch of a planet dragged me kicking and screaming away from a high profile job destroying my social status. Granted, NOW I'm happy where I am, it's low key and I'm making more money...but the process? What that really necessary Pluto? Ugh it tore my guts out and sprayed it across my life. It was simultaneously conjuncting South Node, maybe why it was so hard.

 

[nemesis]

I have moon in pisces square neptune actually and mercury trine neptune. I think it makes it easy for me to pick up on vibes of other people. Which is not always fun lol also I have very vivid dreams.
honestly never check my transits I don't like to influence my thought in what will happen to me but I do check my progressions.

I was watching a show lastnight that mentioned the devil and compared him to the greek Dionysus.
I found that interesting and I can see that since he's kinda the "party" god heh. I can see that more than comparing the devil to Hades really.

 

[Neptune Rising]

I think it makes it easy for me to pick up on vibes of other people. Which is not always fun lol also I have very vivid dreams.

Yes me too for this, meditation helps me alot.

Just thinking of that ole devil, in the tarot, the Devil card is actually Capricorn, not Pluto/Scorpio...

Yes, Death is Scorpio, but notice in most decks, the sun rises in the card...

Unless a person is scared of change, this is something we all must face at some point, willingly or unwillingly.

 

[nemesis]

Yes me too for this, meditation helps me alot.

Just thinking of that ole devil, in the tarot, the Devil card is actually Capricorn, not Pluto/Scorpio...

Yes, Death is Scorpio, but notice in most decks, the sun rises in the card...

Unless a person is scared of change, this is something we all must face at some point, willingly or unwillingly.

I have been told to try meditation before but I don't think I have the mindset for it =/

Yes I know about tarot and how he is Capricorn/Pan and all that just found Dionysus as an interesting take
Yep Death is never truly a bad thing to get in the cards at all. 'Cept to Taurses just kidding haha I have a Taurus Asc so do not get offended anyone.

 

[stainedBlue]

I guess if you play fair, you wont have to worry about Pluto. I still don't like it, especially what happened when it hit my 10th. That biatch of a planet dragged me kicking and screaming away from a high profile job destroying my social status. Granted, NOW I'm happy where I am, it's low key and I'm making more money...but the process? What that really necessary Pluto? Ugh it tore my guts out and sprayed it across my life. It was simultaneously conjuncting South Node, maybe why it was so hard.

This section of your post brought to mind something I've been wondering: if it's possible to be spared by Pluto transits. From my view, Pluto cleans up messes of all kinds, including illusions. What we want isn't always what we need, and what we think we need isn't always what we actually need; and Pluto seems to be what shows us the truth in that matter. It seems the effects of Pluto are only difficult when we cling to what is insubstantial in our lives, when we don't trust in the cyclical nature of life. Everything has a beginning and an ending as well as a time and season, and humans seem particularly inclined to becoming static/stagnant rather than flowing and dynamic, unwilling to trust in the universe. Pluto wants to burn away the insubstantial and purify our quality of life, to tear away the veil of illusion and self-deception and put what we've built for ourselves to the test by fire. I wonder though, can we ever truly be free of illusion to be spared the fire, or will we pass through it regardless of whether attaining eyes that can see beyond all illusion is even possible?

 

[tokyo.lights]

This section of your post brought to mind something I've been wondering: if it's possible to be spared by Pluto transits. From my view, Pluto cleans up messes of all kinds, including illusions. What we want isn't always what we need, and what we think we need isn't always what we actually need; and Pluto seems to be what shows us the truth in that matter. It seems the effects of Pluto are only difficult when we cling to what is insubstantial in our lives, when we don't trust in the cyclical nature of life. Everything has a beginning and an ending as well as a time and season, and humans seem particularly inclined to becoming static/stagnant rather than flowing and dynamic, unwilling to trust in the universe. Pluto wants to burn away the insubstantial and purify our quality of life, to tear away the veil of illusion and self-deception and put what we've built for ourselves to the test by fire. I wonder though, can we ever truly be free of illusion to be spared the fire, or will we pass through it regardless of whether attaining eyes that can see beyond all illusion is even possible?

Very interesting. Although I don't think Pluto is all that concerned with illusions, it leaves that to Saturn the killjoy . I get the feeling Pluto is more interested with something a lot deeper. Kind of like a psychological gravedigger, unearthing secrets from our subconscious. So to be free of Pluto, you'd have to be free of anything dishonest or any issues you've kept buried and not had the courage to face.

A few years ago Pluto made a square to my Mars and nothing happened. No violence, no anger, no accidents. So it certainly is possible to be spared.

 

[tokyo.lights]

I do believe if you "like" Pluto, then you don't fully comprehend what it can do. Yes, its destructive ways are necessary, but there certainly isn't anything "likeable" about the process. To be consciously aware of Pluto...through natal, transit or synastry...you would know there isn't anything fairytale about it. I've experienced all three my entire life, and I will never understand how people in astrology can fawn over this planet. It's supposed to be difficult and painful and transforming...if you're enjoying the process something is very wrong

 

[SGde3a]

Bringing back a 3 y/o thread, but I just wanted to add this.

My observations is that Pluto is like concentrated lemon juice, except concentrated with the stats of the sign that its in.

I'm a leo and both my parents had pluto in leo. I had a lot of trouble growing up because they would be extremely egotistical towards me when I expressed my leo energy. There was nothing I could do to tell them to ease up. I know that Leo energy is basically the "show off" or the superficial guy or the firery-proud guy/girl. But in concentrated form I think the egoism is basically destructive. So when I expressed sun leoness, they would be destructively egotistical back.

My pluto is in Libra, and this makes me "get up in everybodies grill" about positive health and positive / bright bubbly living. Not so bad in concentrated form but still just a little bit strong.

So there's my neutral definition of pluto.

 

[ashriia]

My pluto is in Libra, and this makes me "get up in everybodies grill" about positive health and positive / bright bubbly living. Not so bad in concentrated form but still just a little bit strong.

That is not typically a Pluto in Libra generation theme. If by health you mean physical health then pluto is likely to be found in the 6th, or moon or sun will be there in aspect to pluto.

It's also possible that Pluto is located in the 9th or 4th house, if you are referring more to mental health and outlook.