Is pluto the devil?
- Thread starter divine g
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divine g
Banned
Well, every planet is spherical in shape, and will have a north pole and a south pole, a positive polarity and negative polarity..I think Pluto as a whole can have some very positive qualities...And the devil himself also has a purpose in God's creation..one of them being the one who sends people running straight to God after they have been thru hell.
So, although there is a bit of tongue-in-cheek humor in the question, there is often truth hidden in jest. Of course Pluto is not all bad, like Jupiter and Venus are not all good.. It's all about finding the yin in the yang, and the yang in the yin. But I have experienced, out of all the planets, "the force" of Pluto, while good in transforming what needs to be transformed in our lives, can really feel like the Devil himself (or herself) is breathing down your neck. (And I also leave the possibility of the Devil coming in the form of a female, bc for many men, that has been the case!)
MaeMae
Banned
mark, who's hating?
i love the outers, transpersonals, more than inners.
they are the filling of the hamantaschen.
but they are inaccesible when not infringed with personals. abstract realism.
(who can name an artist who transverses both?)
pluto is our internal combustion system.
it drives us, personally and generationally.
mercury squawks, mars walks, saturn hawks, venus stalks, moon chalks, sun squawks
when pluto comes to town.
no one ignores pluto when he comes to town.
i love the outers, transpersonals, more than inners.
they are the filling of the hamantaschen.
but they are inaccesible when not infringed with personals. abstract realism.
(who can name an artist who transverses both?)
pluto is our internal combustion system.
it drives us, personally and generationally.
mercury squawks, mars walks, saturn hawks, venus stalks, moon chalks, sun squawks
when pluto comes to town.
no one ignores pluto when he comes to town.
divine g
Banned
Yes! That scene in Training Day is real powerful..All of Pluto's bad qualities in in 2 and a half minutes...The manipulation, the psychological games, the ruthlessness, the abuse of power, the explosiveness, the buried rage, being wrapped up in the underworld and in too deep, the total sociopath who cares about nothing but himself, money and power..To some ppl, yes, this would be the devil in the flesh. To others, this is the world we live in, and this man may just be trying to survive..As bad as he is, he is putting a roof over his son's head...
The reason I like the opening scene as well is because all of that is right there as well, only very understated..Is he good or bad? On the side of good or evil? With Pluto, the only way to find out is to fearlessly keep going down that rabbit hole, to see how deep it goes..
Neptune Rising
Well-known member
Lol, I don't believe in the devil, despite the doctrine that I went through as a child. I don't see anything as good or evil either, no matter how hard it is to go through, each and every life experience is there to be learned from. Often we project or scapegoat people outside of us, live through them an experience, whatever. No Pluto is not the devil, it can also be your perception of events that makes it painful or a learning tool.
I went through a very violent experience when Pluto was doing harsh aspects in my chart, but even that experience I view objectively and in hindsight, learned alot from it. The darkness in my life and in my own psyche has been transformed to an incredible empowerment within myself. Even now, experiencing Pluto/Moon progressions double whammy, and now Pluto square Pluto, all the darkness within myself that is coming up is a powerful resource to transform myself. Depending on how I handle it determines how I view Pluto experiences. No experience is evil. Each soul has a reason deep down for doing what they do, that is not to say any and every behaviour is right or wrong, but it stems from something. Seeing to the root of experiences is where the transformative powers of Pluto can bless people, rather than denied or scapegoated/repressed.
Good question though to ponder.
I went through a very violent experience when Pluto was doing harsh aspects in my chart, but even that experience I view objectively and in hindsight, learned alot from it. The darkness in my life and in my own psyche has been transformed to an incredible empowerment within myself. Even now, experiencing Pluto/Moon progressions double whammy, and now Pluto square Pluto, all the darkness within myself that is coming up is a powerful resource to transform myself. Depending on how I handle it determines how I view Pluto experiences. No experience is evil. Each soul has a reason deep down for doing what they do, that is not to say any and every behaviour is right or wrong, but it stems from something. Seeing to the root of experiences is where the transformative powers of Pluto can bless people, rather than denied or scapegoated/repressed.
Good question though to ponder.
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divine g
Banned
I just watched this in-depth interview with Angelina Jolie on "Inside the Actor's Studio"..The whole show itself is quite Plutonian in that it explores actor's in depth, but Jolie herself strikes me as extremely Plutonian..She seems to want to penetrate into the essence of things, and hates all things superficial..She says "I know addiction in all its forms", recounts how sex at 14 was unfulfilling, and she didnt feel any connection until she pulled out a knife and cut her lover..This is a very seductive woman, which is definitely a Pluto thing, so I just wanted to post this here, bc I feel it's relevant somehow..
She has a very similar chart as mine, both being Leo Rising and Gemini Sun with Pluto in the 3rd..Her Pluto opposes her Jupiter, Mars, and Moon..I will leave ppl to make their own conclusions, but I think one day she will make a great case study for the power of Pluto. Not surprisingly, her Sun makes a nice cool trine to Pluto. Here's the interview and then her chart..I dont know much about her, but I do know she can be very provocative, and carried around her 1st husbands blood on her neck, and also stole Jennifer Aniston's husband? So yeah, Pluto can be a power used for good or evil, depending on how you look at it..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEzuBwifyAk&feature=related
She has a very similar chart as mine, both being Leo Rising and Gemini Sun with Pluto in the 3rd..Her Pluto opposes her Jupiter, Mars, and Moon..I will leave ppl to make their own conclusions, but I think one day she will make a great case study for the power of Pluto. Not surprisingly, her Sun makes a nice cool trine to Pluto. Here's the interview and then her chart..I dont know much about her, but I do know she can be very provocative, and carried around her 1st husbands blood on her neck, and also stole Jennifer Aniston's husband? So yeah, Pluto can be a power used for good or evil, depending on how you look at it..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEzuBwifyAk&feature=related
Cold Fusion
Well-known member
Have you ever seen the movie?? Alonzo is evil beyond description. The master con artist, psychopathy in all its' glory.
nemesis
Well-known member
pluto/hades in greek mythology was never thought of as "evil" but many movies and stories depict him as such. if you read into the true mythology ares/mars was the one most of the other gods had problems with and wasn't very liked. of course he was not seen as "evil" either but still.
the underworld itself was not like the christian hell. it was a place for more "ordinary" people went when they died. if you weren't a hero or related to one or an immortal etc. you usually went there and not the elysian fields.
personally I do not believe in anything or anyone being pure evil or pure good.
"dark" people or beliefs are not evil to me either. just because one is interested in the darker side of life does not make them evil.
I really do not believe in the concept of good vs evil honestly.
Just different sides of a coin, yin and yang.
I am not afraid of saturn or pluto I try to embrace all parts of my chart.
the underworld itself was not like the christian hell. it was a place for more "ordinary" people went when they died. if you weren't a hero or related to one or an immortal etc. you usually went there and not the elysian fields.
personally I do not believe in anything or anyone being pure evil or pure good.
"dark" people or beliefs are not evil to me either. just because one is interested in the darker side of life does not make them evil.
I really do not believe in the concept of good vs evil honestly.
Just different sides of a coin, yin and yang.
I am not afraid of saturn or pluto I try to embrace all parts of my chart.
divine g
Banned
Yes, I've seen the movie, about a dozen times. And I am the first to say he is the ultimate manipulative psycho representing pluto in a movie.
But ask yourself this, who is more evil, the priest in holy robes who molests little kids, or the corrupt cop who does what hes to do bc he has to deal with all the villains, criminals and psychos of the underworld on a daily basis. Now if he was that evil, and came home and raped his kid, well, it would be safe to say that he is pure evil. I'm just keeping up with the theme here that Pluto isn't all bad, even if he is the devil.
Here's a bit of syncronicity here, listening to an astrology podcast and he just said that "Pluto in Capricorn is just dark and ugly". And I agree. But ironically, Pluto has such a powerful draw, that sometimes ppl find the dark and the ugly to be attractive, even sexy. I had a Scorpio gf like that. Also reminds me of Julia Roberts when she married Lyle Lovett.
We're just exploring both sides of Pluto here, trying to find the good in the bad, and if we can't, then maybe that's why some ppl can actually consider him the devil?
divine g
Banned
Well, I believe most of Hollywood is run by an evil group of ppl..Corey Feldman has an interview where he says it is rampant with child molestors.
But Al Pacino? Enlighten me..
divine g
Banned
Reading this about hard aspects to Pluto from Mars, which Angelina Jolie has:
Also listening to this podcast about the upcoming T-Square with Pluto, Sun and 1st Quarter Moon coming up..Speaking of Pluto:
"Underhanded Machiavellian tactics.. we all have darkness"
http://sasstrology.com/2012/03/podc...-Weekly_Newsletter03_26_2012&utm_medium=email
http://sasstrology.com/2012/03/dark...-Weekly_Newsletter03_26_2012&utm_medium=email
Also listening to this podcast about the upcoming T-Square with Pluto, Sun and 1st Quarter Moon coming up..Speaking of Pluto:
"Underhanded Machiavellian tactics.. we all have darkness"
http://sasstrology.com/2012/03/podc...-Weekly_Newsletter03_26_2012&utm_medium=email
Well, I believe most of Hollywood is run by an evil group of ppl..Corey Feldman has an interview where he says it is rampant with child molestors.
There is a site that is run by an entertainment lawyer who is very good friends with a lot of celebrities. He/she posts stuff he/she hears from said friends. Some of the stuff on there makes you wonder why in the world parents would let their children into the entertainment industry.
As to if I think Pluto is the devil.... Nah.
Oh! I get it. Haha. I just listed my favorite actor that goes to creepy/scarey town super well.
nemesis
Well-known member
nope never heard of them and what is this "news" you speak of?...
anyways yes there are absolutely terrible people out there who do terrible things but I do not see it as pure evil.
people did these things way before television was even around btw.
the universe has a balance and I believe that is part of the balance no matter how much I wish bad things didn't happen.
god and the devil allow eachother to exist in the christian religion. also in some beliefs the devil isnt evil but merely doing his job. taking those who sin back to hell with him and ruling over them and simply that.
erm I have Mars conjunct Pluto and I am all about an equal relationship not about "winning".
I do get the whole dark vibe thing though people say they see that in me but I never need to conquer or obsess over people I am into.
oh as since were listing people who have played the devil don't forget elizabeth hurley haha.
divine g
Banned
You didnt answer my question, Nemesis, how do you know that pure evil doesn't exist, better yet how could u ever know? Unless you're all-knowing, it's pretty presumptuous of you to assume that. Especially given that Pluto rules extremes, Im sure someone out there, somewhere, is taking doing "terrible things" to an extreme, but is most likely doing it in the dark, where no one can see it. So again, why are you so adamant that pure evil doesn't exist, when you can't even prove it? I suppose Hitler wasn't pure evil? And I guess there was no connection between his rise and the Nazis very shortly after Pluto was discovered?
stainedBlue
Well-known member
Perhaps the question to be asking is whether morality exists, and how your definition is obtained for something largely subjective.