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Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part IV - Nativities
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<blockquote data-quote="JUPITERASC" data-source="post: 941513" data-attributes="member: 6273"><p>01-09-2019, 08:08 PM </p><p> <a href="https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/member.php?u=58485" target="_blank">petosiris</a> <img src="https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/images/futura/statusicon/user_offline.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /> </p><p> Senior Member</p><p> Join Date: Oct 2017</p><p> Location: Desert</p><p> Posts: 1,141 </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> <strong>Re: Chat Thread</strong> </p><p> Quote:</p><p> Peto, this looks significant enough that it should have its own dedicated thread. Couple comments and questions. </p><p>I was going to, if I had found at least something more considerable, like 14/15 results.</p><p></p><p> Quote:</p><p> One question for clarification: You said “Operative is angular or succedent (post-ascending)”. Do you mean Operative is succedent? Since Ascending here already means angular? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Operative (chrematistikos) in the Hellenistic tradition referred to both the angular and succedent places. In the sample, this would basically mean I gave two points for an angular Light, 1 for succedent and 0 for cadent. This is generally how it is treated traditionally, although there is some slight ambiguity to how operative are the succedents compared to the angles, whether it is a 50% strength, something like 66% or the like. Generally though, they are treated as operative along with the angles, while the cadents are noted as completely useless. So it may have been just a two-grade consideration, and it actually sometimes feels that way.</strong></p><p><strong> </strong></p><p><strong>Note that the operative places according to some authors are different. These authors think that the 2nd and 8th place are worse than the 9th because of no aspect, but I disagree.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong> Quote:</strong></p><p><strong> Lastly, you said the Master of the Nativity holds great powers in the Egyptian tradition. Could you recommend some sources so I can look into this? Thank you. </strong></p><p><strong> Quote:</strong></p><p><strong> Petosiris seems to have defined the place perfectly, even though he spoke in mystic riddles: “The beginning, the end, the controller, and the measurement standard of the whole is the houseruling star of each nativity: it makes clear what kind of person the native will be, what kind of basis his livelihood will have, what his character will be, what sort of body <=health and appearance> he will have, and all the things that will accompany him in life. Without this star nothing, neither occupation nor rank, will come to anyone.” </strong></p><p><strong>Valens later disagrees, saying ''But, how is it possible for a nativity to succeed in everything or, on the other hand, to fail in everything, depending just on the houserulership of just one star?'' - Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. - <a href="https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf</a> - page 54</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Valens quotes Nechepso and Petosiris frequently, in two places they referred to the Lot of Fortune as place (the Lots were associated with whole signs/houses) from which ''the whole can be seen'' - ruling place, powerful and controlling. </strong></p><p> <em> Last edited by petosiris; 01-09-2019 at 08:13 PM. </em> </p><p> <p style="text-align: right"> </p> <p style="text-align: right"></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JUPITERASC, post: 941513, member: 6273"] 01-09-2019, 08:08 PM [URL="https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/member.php?u=58485"]petosiris[/URL] [IMG]https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/images/futura/statusicon/user_offline.gif[/IMG] Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Desert Posts: 1,141 [B]Re: Chat Thread[/B] Quote: Peto, this looks significant enough that it should have its own dedicated thread. Couple comments and questions. I was going to, if I had found at least something more considerable, like 14/15 results. Quote: One question for clarification: You said “Operative is angular or succedent (post-ascending)”. Do you mean Operative is succedent? Since Ascending here already means angular? [B]Operative (chrematistikos) in the Hellenistic tradition referred to both the angular and succedent places. In the sample, this would basically mean I gave two points for an angular Light, 1 for succedent and 0 for cadent. This is generally how it is treated traditionally, although there is some slight ambiguity to how operative are the succedents compared to the angles, whether it is a 50% strength, something like 66% or the like. Generally though, they are treated as operative along with the angles, while the cadents are noted as completely useless. So it may have been just a two-grade consideration, and it actually sometimes feels that way.[/B] [B] Note that the operative places according to some authors are different. These authors think that the 2nd and 8th place are worse than the 9th because of no aspect, but I disagree. Quote: Lastly, you said the Master of the Nativity holds great powers in the Egyptian tradition. Could you recommend some sources so I can look into this? Thank you. Quote: Petosiris seems to have defined the place perfectly, even though he spoke in mystic riddles: “The beginning, the end, the controller, and the measurement standard of the whole is the houseruling star of each nativity: it makes clear what kind of person the native will be, what kind of basis his livelihood will have, what his character will be, what sort of body <=health and appearance> he will have, and all the things that will accompany him in life. Without this star nothing, neither occupation nor rank, will come to anyone.” Valens later disagrees, saying ''But, how is it possible for a nativity to succeed in everything or, on the other hand, to fail in everything, depending just on the houserulership of just one star?'' - Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. - [URL="https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf"]https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf[/URL] - page 54 Valens quotes Nechepso and Petosiris frequently, in two places they referred to the Lot of Fortune as place (the Lots were associated with whole signs/houses) from which ''the whole can be seen'' - ruling place, powerful and controlling. [/B] [I] Last edited by petosiris; 01-09-2019 at 08:13 PM. [/I] [RIGHT] [/RIGHT] [/QUOTE]
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