Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac

[petosiris]

Excuse me, sir. Is that simple?
Vettius said this is unfortunate sign too sir which is no detailed explanation from his book.

I explained what amphibious means. Each thing in Hellenistic astrology is done with some natural consideration in mind, so which part of the sign do you not understand?

''Capricorn is the house of Saturn, feminine, tropic, earthy, destructive, barren, downward-trending, chilling, mute, servile, the cause of troubles, brutal, lurking, mysterious, two-natured, moist, half–finished <=childless?>, a hunchback, lame, the Descendant of the universe, indicative of misfortune and toil, a sculptor, a farmer. Men born under this sign are bad, warped. They pretend goodness and sincerity. They are toilsome, burdened with care, insomniac, fond of jokes, plotters of great deeds, prone to make unfortunate mistakes, fickle, criminal, lying, always criticizing, shameful. https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/vettius valens entire.pdf''

Capricorn is the house of Saturn because it is the Descendant of the Universe (Thema Mundi), feminine because it has no male organs, changeable because goats and fishes are changeable, earthy because of the element, it is destructive because of its form and houseruler, barren because it is an enigmatic animal and not able to procreate, downward-trending for it is feminine, chilling because of Saturn, mute because it is not able to utter words, servile because it is useless and with no dignity, the cause of troubles because of the aforementioned things, it is brutal because it is domicile and exaltation of malefics, it is lurking because it is licentious and irrational animal, it is enigmatic because it is a freaking Sea-Goat, two-natured because it has two colours, moist because of the fish, incomplete because of neither being full goat nor full fish, hunchback because it is cramped, lame because of Saturn and the Goat, the Descendant because of the Universe, misfortunate and toilsome because of the aforementioned indications, sculptors and farmers because of the amphibious nature and the houseruler Saturn. The rest follows from the above natures.

 

[SunConjunctUranus]

Each thing in Hellenistic astrology is done with some natural consideration in mind, so which part of the sign do you not understand?

I guess you just explained it very well, sir. I'm sorry sir, I need time for this explanation because I'm stuck from tropical/modern definition of the zodiac, I hope you could understand.

PS: The house and the planets should be make different to our judgements about nativity to consider. I shall comment about this in other part of Anthology.

 

[david starling]

I guess you just explained it very well, sir. I'm sorry sir, I need time for this explanation because I'm stuck from tropical/modern definition of the zodiac, I hope you could understand.

PS: The house and the planets should be make different to our judgements about nativity to consider. I shall comment about this in other part of Anthology.

Are you willing to ascribe such downer characteristics to one of your most important Chart-signs?

 

[SunConjunctUranus]

Are you willing to ascribe such downer characteristics to one of your most important Chart-signs?

Oh my good sir, fortunately Saturn which control that sign is sitting nicely in it's others own domicile [Aquarius].
Saturn comfortable in the XI [aquisitive house] and in it's own degree.
AND the triplicity is saturn too.

Rolled eyes to Petosiris.

 

[petosiris]

Are you willing to ascribe such downer characteristics to one of your most important Chart-signs?

Do you ascribe to ''upner'' astrology yourself? How do the above traits manifest then?

 

[SunConjunctUranus]

Do you ascribe to ''upner'' astrology yourself? How do the above traits manifest then?

Sir D has moon in Capricorn, don't know where saturn at.

 

[david starling]

Do you ascribe to ''upner'' astrology yourself? How do the above traits manifest then?

Capricorn is like this amazing kid with a lot of useful abilities. Extremely likeable, friendly, and helpful. But, here's the "tragic" (meaning "cry of the goat") situation: Capricorn is ruled by a dictatorial, abusive father, who tries to ruin all of the kid's endeavors, and cast a cloud over his life. Capricorn is in a constant state of rebellion against Saturn, but in the end...a ruler is a ruler, and Capricorn can sometimes be "panicked" into obedience. Toughest, most complex Sign of the lot.

 

[petosiris]

Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) and excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)

Capricorn is like this amazing kid with a lot of useful abilities. Extremely likeable, friendly, and helpful. But, here's the "tragic" (meaning "cry of the goat") situation: Capricorn is ruled by a dictatorial, abusive father, who tries to ruin all of the kid's endeavors. Capricorn is in a constant state of rebellion against Saturn, but in the end...a ruler is a ruler, and Capricorn can sometimes be "panicked" into obedience. Toughest, most complex Sign of the lot.

Wrong board, kiddo board is over there ---> https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=95

 

[petosiris]

Did you seriously not understand my question, I did not ask you what are the good signs of Capricorn, I merely remarked that your astrology has no maleficence to explain bad fortune. Some people are infertile, unattractive, bad or brutal, and many things do not reach completion.

 

[david starling]

Wrong board, kiddo board is over there ---> https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=95

How is this interpretation of the characteristics of Capricorn non-traditional? Do they ALL paint it in such a grim, condescending, insulting light? Btw, you missed the "kid" metaphor, meaning young goat, and the "panicked" reference to Pan, a Greek god representing this sign.

 

[petosiris]

How is this interpretation of the characteristics of Capricorn non-traditional? Do they ALL paint it in such a grim, condescending, insulting light? Btw, you missed the "kid" metaphor, meaning young goat, and the "panicked" reference to Pan, a Greek god representing this sign.

Bro, no authority - no tradition.

 

[petosiris]

Some academics have questioned the validity of ancient sources by saying they are too positive (3/12 royal signs?!), and then we have david on our forum.

 

[david starling]

Did you seriously not understand my question, I did not ask you what are the good signs of Capricorn, I merely remarked that your astrology has no maleficence to explain bad fortune. Some people are infertile, unattractive, bad or brutal, and many things do not reach completion.

So, according to Valens, all Capricorns suffer from those maladies, regardless of the Chart configuration? I, for one, believe it's an untenable generalization.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Sir D has moon in Capricorn, don't know where saturn at.

Tropical Leo Saturn

and since our discussion takes place on our traditional board
these are the locations of Sir Ds seven classical planets

Hi! My Community name is David Starling.
My Sun is at 28 degrees Pisces,
Ascendant, Mercury and "the red planet" all solidly in Pisces;
Moon and Venus in Aquarius;
Jupiter in Scorpio,
Saturn in Leo. I am very happy to have found this website!

Welcome To the forum. How long have you been interested in astrology?

Since 1967.
I'm a Tropicalist,
although I respect Sideralism
--different angle of view of the same thing.

 

[david starling]

Bro, no authority - no tradition.

So you're unaware of Pan as representing Capricorn, and connected to the word "panic"? And the word "tragic" regarding the "cry of the goat"? You need to brush up on your knowledge of tradition.

 

[david starling]

Btw, read the rules for this board: Clearly, sidereal is off limits in the Trad forum. Not that I think it should be.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Btw, read the rules for this board: Clearly, sidereal is off limits in the Trad forum. Not that I think it should be.

So, according to Valens, all Capricorns suffer from those maladies, regardless of the Chart configuration?

I, for one, believe it's an untenable generalization.

you for one are entitled to your modernist opinion
which as petosiris already indicated
is apposite to the following board at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=95

meanwhile keep in mind that our traditional board
has the following moderator advice clearly displayed

QUOTE

Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion

This is the Traditional Astrology forum. Out of all the different boards in this forum, this one is the home for traditional astrologers. It was created so that traditional astrologers can discuss traditional astrology with each other, without having to justify it to non-traditionalists or be interrupted by people disagreeing with traditional perspectives. Traditional astrologers, welcome home! You already know what to post and what not to post, so you may go ahead and post without reading further.

If you are not a traditional astrologer, you are welcome as a guest. Good guests respect the rules of the house. In this house, the main rule is that all posts must stick to traditional astrology only. Please read the rest of this and make sure that everything you post here is strictly traditional. If your post is not traditional, it belongs on one of our other boards, not here.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120411

 

[david starling]

Btw, read the rules for this board: Clearly, sidereal is off limits in the Trad forum. Not that I think it should be.

I take this back. The rules have been amended to allow Sidereal interpretations, which I agree should be the case. However, my objection is valid, and not intended as trolling. Question: Do ALL ancient astrologers have such a dire view of the Sign Capricorn?

 

[JUPITERASC]

Btw, read the rules for this board:
Clearly, sidereal is off limits in the Trad forum.
Not that I think it should be.

Obviously you are fine with discussing sidereal on our traditional board
because earlier on this same thread
you said
and I quote

Aldebaran 15 gives a setting extremely close to Cyril Fagan's use of Spica.
About 15 or so minutes of arc.

I just read that Fagan-Bradley, using the SVP (Synetic Vernal Point) has Spica at 29 degrees 06' sidereal Virgo,
and Aldebaran actually at 15 degrees Taurus.

and petosiris responded to your comment as follows

They are the same thing - minute of arc.

 

[JUPITERASC]

I take this back. The rules have been amended to allow Sidereal interpretations, which I agree should be the case.
However, my objection is valid, and not intended as trolling.
Question: Do ALL ancient astrologers have such a dire view of the Sign Capricorn?

If you are interested to learn traditional astrology
then you shall find the answer by reading ALL ancient astrologers
if you are not sufficiently interested to read any traditional authorities
then I recommend you follow moderator helpful guidelines as follows

QUOTE

Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion
This is the Traditional Astrology forum.
Out of all the different boards in this forum, this one is the home for traditional astrologers.

It was created so that traditional astrologers

can discuss traditional astrology with each other,
without having to justify it to non-traditionalists
or be interrupted by people disagreeing with traditional perspectives.
Traditional astrologers, welcome home!
You already know what to post and what not to post,
so you may go ahead and post without reading further.
If you are not a traditional astrologer,
you are welcome as a guest.
Good guests respect the rules of the house.
In this house, the main rule is that all posts must stick to traditional astrology only.

Please read the rest of this
and make sure that everything you post here is strictly traditional. If your post is not traditional, it belongs on one of our other boards, not here.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=120411