Indication of divorce or second marriage?

herokangta

Well-known member
read this thread :)
i.e.
already answered




In his Introduction, William Lilly stated that a combust planet

should be in the same sign as the Sun and within 8° 30'
- beyond this distance, but within 17 ° of the Sun
the planet is said to be under the Sun's beams.

This condition is debilitating, but not as severe as combustion.

.

i.e.



link your traditional source for that


.
Thank you for your information. I'd appreciate if you could help confirm my understand of my chart reflects what you said here.

So my Mars is in Cancer and it is the lord of 7th house which is totaly far from the Sun so its not under the Sun beams, correct? This explains why I am married.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Jupiter, could you confirm my understanding of Mars not under Sun beams?

DEFINITELY MARS IS NOT UNDER SUNS BEAMS :)

index.php
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

DC80

Well-known member
I need some help to interpret my natal chart to see if it indicates a divorce and a second marriage.
Natal charts never indicate divorce. They can only indicate the potential for multiple marriages (or one marriage) and they can indicate the condition of the spouse and whether the spouse dies prematurely.
My marriage is currently undergoing a tough time. My current husband is very controlling and I just realize he has been emotionally and financially abusive to me so it is highly likely we are getting a divorce.

Looking at my chart, 7th house is empty in Aries which has Mars as its ruler in 10th house. But Mars is placed in Cancer which is Retrograde and debilitated.

That the 7th place is empty has nothing to do with anything.

Mars is not debilitated. Mars is in the 10th making him powerful and in Cancer which is a water sign and Mars is one of the water trigon rulers and since we now know your chart is nocturnal that makes Mars the water trigon ruler and he is in sect being nocturnally placed in a nocturnal sign. His only deficiency is being retrograde.

Mars represents the type of romantic partners that you seek/prefer. Your spouse will not change and since he's having fun he's not likely to be the one to file for divorce so that'll be entirely up to you.

You will always seek romantic partners like the Mars in your chart who are controlling. That will not change until Mars ingresses another sign through secondary progressions which will change the characteristics of the romantic partners you seek. If you want to know why some people marry 2 or 3 or 4 times before they finally get a decent partner and the marriage works, now you know.

Since everyone does secondary progressions the wrong way you can do it the right way by taking your age in years as days and then adding those days to your birth day and casting a new chart for that date at your birth time. If you're one of the anal retentive or OCD people and will freak out if your chart isn't super-hyper-over-accurate you can take your age in years, months and days, convert them to hours and then add the hours to your birth time and cast a new chart.

To get a chart in the ball park if you're 32 years old and born on June 28 then June 28 + 32 days is July 30 and you cast a chart for July 30 on your birth time and see where the stars fall.

If Mars is still in Cancer then you can get divorced but you're going to run to a guy just like your current spouse and he may not appear to be controlling at first or maybe he is but you don't want to see it and you'll get married and then you'll get divorced and do it all again.

So, using your "Martian energies blah, blah, blah, blah" is just total nonsense. Like it or not, this is who and what you are. If Mars goes direct in Cancer maybe that'll help a bit and then of course when Mars progresses into Leo you'll be looking for a very different type of romantic partner than the ones you are attracted to or smitten with now. Either way, I hope it works out for you.

And since it is in Cancer, my husband is indeed from the same country.
That is not what that means.
Mars opposite Venus which is the ruler of 8th house - money so we had a lot of arguments regarding money. Venus in also in the 4th house so there is a lot of domestic unrest and argument. Is there anything else you can see from my chart?
That is not what that means. Venus opposition Mars is not good; it's worse since they're angular; and it's worse since Venus is out of sect being diurnally placed; and even worse because it's on the Cancer/Capricorn axis.

Remember, Cancer commands Capricorn.
 

DC80

Well-known member
With regards to the second marriage if I am going for the divorce, will it be dictated by the 9th house? How would you interpret my 9th house?

Venus in the 9th place or the ruler of the 7th in 9th indicates marriage to a foreigner but it does not indicate divorce or 2nd marriages.

Venus angular or in the 11th or 5th and in a tropical sign or a bicorporal sign is an indicator of multiple marriages but not an indicator of divorce.
Capricorn is both a tropical sign and a bicorporal sign so it does hint at more than one marriage.

Does the 9th house represent the second marriage?

No.

In the chart of a female (regardless of their orientation):

1) Mars is the archetype of the romantic partner
2) Venus is the general indicator of marriage
3) Mars is the primary indicator of marriage
4) Fortune is a significator of marriage
5) Lot of Marriage
Diurnal: count the signs from Saturn to Venus starting with Saturn the use that number and count from the ASC starting with the ASC. If one or both stars are in later degrees you might want to count the degrees because it could put the Lot in a different sign.
Nocturnal: count the signs from Venus to Saturn starting with Venus the use that number and count from the ASC starting with the ASC. Again, if one or both stars are in later degrees you might want to count the degrees because it could put the Lot in a different sign.
6) Lot of the Husband
Diurnal: Count from Mars to Venus just like counting from Saturn to Venus. Add that number to the ASC.
Nocturnal: Count from Venus to Mars

In a male's chart (regardless of orientation) the Lot of Marriage (see above) is the Lot of the Wife and the Lot of the Husband (see above) is the Lot of Marriage. In other words they're reversed.

Venus in a man's chart and Mars in a woman's chart tells you the kind of people they chase after but the two Lots will give you more detailed info.

The Lot of Marriage will tell you about your marriage. The sign opposite Marriage is the Place of Adultery. That'll give you a clue if your partner is the adulterous type.

You can direct Marriage through the bounds using ascensional times (not rising times) based on the latitude of your birth-place to get an idea of how things are going. If Marriage is moving through the bounds of Jupiter and he's diurnally placed in a diurnal sign in a good place and direct and not attacked by a malefic or a waning Moon things will be peachy. If not it'll be tepid and if he's in really bad shape things might appear to be good on the surface but not underneath.

Since you're kinda new you should start out with profections. I rarely use the ASC for marriage. For you I would profect Mars and Fortune and if I saw what I liked I'd profect Spirit to see how that works out and if I liked what I saw I'd cast a solar return and if I still liked what I saw then I would cast a transit chart.

You can't use solar returns or transits until you first make a prediction using a primary method (like profections). In a man's chart I'd use Venus and Spirit and then take a look at Fortune and then cast a solar return and then cast a transit chart.

While I'm at it, I'll explain the correct technique for solar returns since the Arabs and Persians mangled it and made a mess of it.

Everyone thinks you cast a solar return chart and you're done, like this:

Solar Return Wrong.jpg



That's wrong. No wonder no one can predict anything. That's only the 1st step. See Moon at Libra 19°?

In the natal chart Moon is at Aquarius 3°33'.

You have to use the dynamic/animate function to step through the chart and move Moon to its natal position like this:

SR Animated.jpg


See how Moon's now at Aquarius 3°33'?

See how the Ascending Degree is now at Aries 3°52'?

That is the actual ASC for your solar return. You can mark it in the chart like so:
SR New ASC.jpg


See?

That's your solar return chart. Well, not yours. Someone else's. So solar return Sun is actually in the 7th place not the 1st place.

On a similar topic. Do not be misled by people who tell you to cast lunar return charts. That's the wrong technique because the stupid Arabs and Persians butchered it.

Just before you were born there was either a New Moon or a Full Moon.

Most software will tell you the position and some will even show you the position on the chart.

Count the number of degrees from the prenatal New Moon to the position of the natal Moon in your chart. That's your magic number. If you had a Full Moon before birth then count the number of degrees from the prenatal Full Moon to the position of the natal Moon in your chart and that will be your magic number.

Now for any month, if you were a New Moon baby, you cast a New Moon chart for that month then use the dynamic/animate function to move the Moon so that it is the same number of degrees from the Sun as it is in your natal chart and that will be your lunation chart.

This relationship between the two Lights in your natal chart is very important. If you understand that then now you understand why when we cast a solar return chart we move the Moon to it's natal position and use the corresponding Ascending Degree as the ASC for the solar return because you must keep the same relationship always.
 

DC80

Well-known member
Yes but it cant be possibly right that everyone born in December will have 2 husbands???

It isn't right. Ptolemy was a pturd. It's wrong and that's why we ignore everything Ptolemy says because he was not an astrologer. He would **** his pants if he had to cast a chart and read it.

That's also why we ignore the Arabs and Persians and the Medieval astrologers and the lunatic Lily because they all relied on Ptolemy in part because they were confused and thought Ptolemy was an astrologer when he wasn't. Even worse, since they didn't have access to Ptolemy's original work they so relied on very, very bad copies of his work which had a lot of errors.

Ptolemy wrote his book to try to show astrology fits Aristotle's view except it doesn't because astrology is based on the Hermetic and Stoic philosophies.

Since astrology does not fit Aristotle, Ptolemy had to make a lot of changes. Jupiter is not warm and moist. Jupiter is warm. Period. End of story. Mars is not hot and dry. Mars is hot. Period. End of story. The trigons do not fit Aristotle and neither do the bounds/terms so Ptolemy had to change them to fit but it doesn't work which is why we ignore Ptolemy.

The Persians and Arabs didn't understand the difference between:
1) A star opposing a place
2) A star opposing a sign whether it rules that sign or not
3) A star opposing another star

Ptolemy is wrong because Aristotle was wrong. It isn't Fire-water-air-earth like it is in the Aristotelian view because that would be Aries-Cancer-Gemini-Taurus

The Stoic view is the correct view: Fire-earth-air-water or Aries-Taurus-Gemini-Cancer.

The Aristotelian view on "contrariety" is what led to the false teachings on "fall" and detriment." No such thing as detriment. No such thing as "fall." That isn't even the correct translation. The correct translations are elevated (instead of exalted) and low-point (instead of fall). Mars is at a low-point in Cancer and the texts say Mars is in the "fall of his fall" or "depression of his depression" in Aries which is the sign he rules.

You can see they're wrong. Or you can look at people's charts. Moon in Taurus is powerful but Moon in Scorpio is twice as powerful. In fact, when you see stars in their "falls" or "detriment" your keyword should be power. Well, actually, Power.

Interesting. Mine is also in occidental quadrant but I married young and husband is only 5 years older.
That's 10 more reason to ignore Ptolemy and anyone who drank his kool-aid.

So my Mars is in Cancer and it is the lord of 7th house which is totaly far from the Sun so its not under the Sun beams, correct? This explains why I am married.

No, that is not why you are married. To be under Sun's beams a star has to be in the same sign as Sun.

There's no such thing as a "Part of Divorce." That's just idiotic Arab/Persian stupidity because they ran around like a raped ape creating all these "parts" (which isn't even the right word) and none of them work.

To prove that to you, ASC + Mercury - Saturn is the Part of Aloofness, the Part of Aptness, and the Part of Damage,/Destruction/Debt.

I'm sorry but it can't be all those things because they're contradictory.

The other reason they're wrong is because the morons Masha-Allah and Abu-Mashar who didn't understand Greek and didn't understand the concepts conflated electional and horary astrology with natal astrology and they moved lawsuits from the 8th place to the 7th place which is why that part uses Venus and 7th place.

Lawsuits were always 8th place and they'll be 8th place until the Earth turns into a burnt cinder and even after that lawsuits will still be 8th place.

For beginners, profections are the easiest. You can find profection charts a-plenty on the internet. Problem is they're all set up to profect the ASC which is useless unless you wanna know when someone is going to die. The ASC is too generic because it's your life and all facets of your life lumped together in the same shoe box. If you want to look at specific areas you need to look at those significators.

For you that's gonna be Mars and Fortune. I made my own profection charts one for each place so's I could profect the 9th place and any stars in the 9th place around the chart. You can do it anyway you want. I'd be looking for Mars/Fortune profected to the 8th House of Lawsuits, in the 2nd opposition the House of Lawsuits, Mars/Fortune opposing each other on the 2nd/8th axis, Mars in the 4th opposing natal Mars and trine the House of Lawsuits or Mars profected to the 10th sextile the 8th and such and if I saw something I'd probably profect Spirit since Fortune is what happens to you and Spirit is what happens because of you and then if it all looked good I'd cast a solar return just like I showed you to see where those significators fall in the chart and how they stack up against themselves in the natal chart and if it all looked good I'd cast a transit chart.
 

herokangta

Well-known member
Sorry I'm very confused. I've been learning Hellenistic astrology books since I posted this thread and the texts all agree that Mars in Cancer in a nocturnal chart has triplicity dignity but in fall and retrograde so is weak and has no power to act.

And now you tell me planets in fall or detriment have power. I'm very confused.
 

aqualovebot

Well-known member
Sorry I'm very confused. I've been learning Hellenistic astrology books since I posted this thread and the texts all agree that Mars in Cancer in a nocturnal chart has triplicity dignity but in fall and retrograde so is weak and has no power to act.

And now you tell me planets in fall or detriment have power. I'm very confused.
Dignity is a scale - its much easier to put everything in real life term. Take Mars as a stereotypical warrior - in his triplicity and sect he may very well be akin to being on the battlefield he is comfortable where he is - but he is in his fall - he's on enemy land, in the example mentioned let's say he does not have the soldiers around him - he is a very weak warrior. If you add the 10th house then it adds very little dignity maybe he has a sword instead of a knife but add Retrogradation and he's swinging the sword in the opposite direction - no where near the enemy! Neither of the dignity is enough to turn the tides but it is better then him being in his enemy castle with no weapon - in his fall with no dignity at all.
 

herokangta

Well-known member
Sure I can agree in this case it's better I have a nocturnal chart since Mars at least has some dignity. But going back to DC80 point about Mars being powerful, I don't think it is.
 

aqualovebot

Well-known member
Sure I can agree in this case it's better I have a nocturnal chart since Mars at least has some dignity. But going back to DC80 point about Mars being powerful, I don't think it is.
I agree with you. However, Venus really does want to help Mars in this case sitting in his exaltation, and has triplicity - she's in a far much better position to be equally helpful. It may negate some of the Moon's influence on the chart as well - considering the Moon is too busy beating down Mars and has far much more pushing power.
 

herokangta

Well-known member
I agree with you. However, Venus really does want to help Mars in this case sitting in his exaltation, and has triplicity - she's in a far much better position to be equally helpful. It may negate some of the Moon's influence on the chart as well - considering the Moon is too busy beating down Mars and has far much more pushing power.
Can you explain why Moon has to beat down Mars? I don't see any negative aspects between them. I would have thought Moon exalted being ruler of 10th house would provide help to Mars in this case.

Regarding Venus having triplicity, since it is a night chart, I wonder if it is still the triplicity ruler considering it is the secondary ruler, not primary.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Regarding this section
Mars is not debilitated. Mars is in the 10th making him powerful and in Cancer which is a water sign and Mars is one of the water trigon rulers and since we now know your chart is nocturnal that makes Mars the water trigon ruler and he is in sect being nocturnally placed in a nocturnal sign. His only deficiency is being retrograde.
Sure I can agree in this case it's better I have a nocturnal chart since Mars at least has some dignity. But going back to DC80 point about Mars being powerful, I don't think it is.
re: DC80 comment you're finding confusing

Keep in mind that the twelve houses are each defined as:
either

angular - 1st, 4th, 7th & 10th :)
succedent - 2nd, 5th, 8th, & 11th
or

cadent - 3rd, 6th, 9th & 12th
Thus
the twelve houses are not equal in their strength & effect.
If a planet is placed in an angular house :)

it is much more forceful in its effects
than it would be in a cadent house.

When a planet is placed in an angular house

it is performing more powerfully.
Whatever it represents

will show its force in a swift and dynamic fashion.

ang1.gif

Skyscript
ang.gif
 

aqualovebot

Well-known member
Can you explain why Moon has to beat down Mars? I don't see any negative aspects between them. I would have thought Moon exalted being ruler of 10th house would provide help to Mars in this case.
Moon hates Mars by sitting in his detriment, it has no inclination to help him. Think of them as Kings.

The Moon is exalted in Venus territory is busy antagonizes Mars, who she does not like. Despite Mars being a King, his influence is severely limited because he is enemy territory so he can only take what the Moon allows.

The Moon, maintains a strong connection with Mars through a sextile which connects them both - so Mars might be saying lets do this and Moon being far more powerful and without little issue since they are connected by a sextile can just say No! Mars being in Moon's homeland must abide to it.

Venus, despite caring deeply for Mars, struggles to influence him directly due to their opposition. So Venus may be sending help and Mars has to send it back - The Moon won't let me take it, Sorry!

Venus's however has intense authority over the Moon so she may attempt to intervene and persuade the Moon to stop antagonizing Mars for example if you want to stay here be nicer to Mars! Moon who absolutely adores Venus may just say Opps, Sorry Mars!

I assume you are new to astrology - it is reception that answers the planets attitude to each other and aspect that shows whether or not they are even in conversation. It is tricky to understand but once you do it's pretty easy. For example you can have a bank that you can love, hate, or remain indifferent to - but whether or not you can connect to that bank is a different story. If you're at home then its pretty easy to walk over to an ATM and take the money out (Trine) versus if you're out of the country and the bank isn't hosted over there (No Aspect)
 
Last edited:

herokangta

Well-known member
What an interesting analogy aqualovebot. So it looks to me that only Mercury can help Mars in this case being in his triplicity or actually Mars helps Mercury. Mars doesn't receive help from anyone lol
 

aqualovebot

Well-known member
Hi DC80,

Unfortunately Mars will never progress to another sign in this lifetime for me lol. Are you saying I will always attract this type for the rest of my life? Surely, people with multiple marriages cannot marry guys with the same traits?

View attachment 112387
Please correct me if I am wrong but this is the chart yes? If that’s the case both Merc and Venus is willing to help. Merc sitting in his domicile and Venus in his exaltation. I read reception as Merc loves Mars by sitting in his domicile although I do know people who read it the other way around.
 
Top