In What Sign is Chiron Domiciled?

[david starling]

I personally would not say, "tremendous disrespect",because I don't know what's in the hearts and minds of others, however, I do agree the Sidereal is the way to go, because of the keeping to the Astronomical data, the backdrop of the stars and constellations. I don't know if it's laziness or just habit of the Astrologers, but whatever it is, it's their own path.


To each their own, I always say. I'll read anything in a given topic, if it's decent Astrology based. (given the time I have available to me in a given week or day.

You're right. I should have said "ABSOLUTE disregard" of Vedic astrology when it comes down to when the Aquarian Age will formally begin, using the Vernal Equinoctial Point (VP), at the time the VP first ingresses sidereal Aquarius.

 

[leomoon]

You're right. I should have said "ABSOLUTE disregard" of Vedic astrology when it comes down to when the Aquarian Age will formally begin, using the Vernal Equinoctial Point (VP), at the time the VP first ingresses sidereal Aquarius.

Makes all the difference in the world! I agree with you.



On the other forum I mentioned, there were hard and fast rules, not just for the forum, BUT for Astrology, (which is supposed to be an art)
When I first joined, (telling out of school stories here), but geesh, 20 years ago? 21?? There was NO Vedic Astrology and the owner and "others" were dead set against Vedic, writing rather disparagingly about it.

I was aghast!! Not to mention "annoyed" by it the disrespect., because I always had a great deal of respect, if not for India necessarily but for Vedic and what it can teach us. I see Vedic as more informative then tropical, although I trained myself, in western astrology.



So I take a huge offense when we turn out heads away and put down one vs another, (just my own hangup I guess i.e. past lifetimes I suppose)


But today, although perhaps begrudgingly, Vedic has it's OWN forum on that site, with it's OWN rules, lol - for charts; and everyone tolerates well the other. I hope. No more nasty posts and blogs about Vedic Astrologers even if secretly, western tropicalists and some "people" in certain cultures, believe they are superior and say as much in their books and writings. Ugh!
Every chance I got over 15 yrs or more, I supported and pushed for the "idea" of a Vedic Forum so I was very pleased when it happened. (even though I'm only learning, and maybe never will in this lifetime, I still can respect it and do)

 

[david starling]

Western sidereal is more similar to tropical than Vedic, but uses Sign-boundary positions that matchup with Vedic.

Western siderealists are usually EXTREMELY disparaging about using the Seasons to locate the Signs, as we do topically. That might be why we don't have a Western sidereal forum here, along with the Vedic forum.

 

[leomoon]

Western sidereal is more similar to tropical than Vedic, but uses Sign-boundary positions that matchup with Vedic.

Western siderealists are usually EXTREMELY disparaging about using the Seasons to locate the Signs, as we do topically. That might be why we don't have a Western sidereal forum here, along with the Vedic forum.

I noticed that online before. It's always the ego, that says, "My way or the highway", which is sad to me. ... Egos out of control, are a blot on the soul, imo.


I recall bumping up against Eshelman online, the hero in some circles of Siderealist Astrologers. the reason bieng, I mentioned to him (on FB), that using his method which someone I knew was promoting it heavily, did not reward us with the winner of the 2008 Presidential Elections. The Sideralist promoted McCain, and I said Obama, along with most Tropicalists.



That was my last foray into Sidereal Astrology.



note: a LOT of people rumored he had died when tr Pluto went over his 4th house NN at 09Capricorn (Tr Pluto was 07 at the time) But we spoke afterwards,



I have no idea about now, whether he is still on FB or not. Runs astrology SolLUnar.com


I vaguely recall, he was polite and respectful when I spoke with him about the promotion of that prediction.


https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Eshelman,_James_A.

Karen Wilkerson and Joan G. Piszek, and that they together with James Eshelman founded the Registry of Sidereal Astrologers. Thus, Wilkerson and Piszek would appear to have been working as editors of two separate journals of sidereal astrology at once in 1975-6, only one of which, 'The Constellations', was edited by Eshelman.

 

[leomoon]

note: Sidereal Astrologer Jim Eshelman:
I don't know WHY the astro.com link doesn't open now, but when you type his name into Google search engine, it comes up (the same link and opens with the chart and bio)
American astrological student from 13, a regular contributor to magazines from 16 and founding editor of "Constellations." His books include "The Sidereal Handbook" and "The New Instant Astrologer." Computer skilled, he started a business in 1983, The User's Guide, providing education and support for micro-computer owners. A board member of ISAR and a speaker at national conventions, he withdrew from active participation in the astrological community in 1984.
Events

• Work : Start Business 1983 (The User's Guide)

• Work : Retired 1984 (Withdrew from active participation in the community)

Added: The "rumour mill" had it he died in 2012, and I constructed the chart for his "death", but alas, he is alive and kicking, at least in 2017 when he posted his natal chart for all to have:


https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?t=559


I suppose, the Sidereal Community, "withdrew" from participating with the general populace of "others" in the Astro world?

 

[waybread]

Well, there you have it: The "commercial organizations" are more likely to use the Caduceus, which was related to commerce. It's also flashier than the one that was related to the medical professions, so it's better for advertising.

But, why the snake? What do snakes have to do with healing?

In fact, it was an arrow dipped in the snake-headed Hydra's blood that gave gave Chiron the wound that couldn't be healed.

Of course, snakes of the viper family do have hypodermic needles as fangs.

The snake is an ancient symbol of wisdom. Cf. the Python at Delphi, where the oracles predicted the future, the snake in the garden of Eden on the tree of knowledge, and Matthew 10:16: "Be you as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves."

 

[Opal]

Snakes intertwined their way throughout the constellations. There are more snake and serpent constellations than anything else.

Interwoven in myth.

 

[Opal]

I have been reading "Fixed Stars in the Chart - Constellation, Lunar Mansions and Mythology" by Oscar Hofman. It is a recent book published in 2019.



I acquired it on my last trip to Banyen books in Vancouver.


He associates Sagittarius totally to Chiron.


Talks of his kinship to Prometheus(forethought) and releasing him and himself from pain.


Also of interest, and I quote:



"The arrow of Sagittarius is a symbol of the world axis or the Pole, traditionally the divine centre around which everything turns. A link with this centre is to gain knowledge of the essence."



Also:


"Polis, a star on the arrow, gives optimism, success, ambition and sharp insights."


While, I am still not ready to agree that Sagittarius has total domicility of Chiron, I do find it of interest, the symbolism of the arrow and linking it to the axis, or pole.



With the other reading, I have done, and much of it talking of Chiron being a link to the Precession of the Ages, definitely a closer look at the stars of the arrow, are piquing my interest.


Back to myths and sky maps!


He also wrote a book called Classical Medical Astrology.

 

[david starling]

I have been reading "Fixed Stars in the Chart - Constellation, Lunar Mansions and Mythology" by Oscar Hofman. It is a recent book published in 2019.



I acquired it on my last trip to Banyen books in Vancouver.


He associates Sagittarius totally to Chiron.


Talks of his kinship to Prometheus(forethought) and releasing him and himself from pain.


Also of interest, and I quote:



"The arrow of Sagittarius is a symbol of the world axis or the Pole, traditionally the divine centre around which everything turns. A link with this centre is to gain knowledge of the essence."



Also:


"Polis, a star on the arrow, gives optimism, success, ambition and sharp insights."


While, I am still not ready to agree that Sagittarius has total domicility of Chiron, I do find it of interest, the symbolism of the arrow and linking it to the axis, or pole.



With the other reading, I have done, and much of it talking of Chiron being a link to the Precession of the Ages, definitely a closer look at the stars of the arrow, are piquing my interest.


Back to myths and sky maps!


He also wrote a book called Classical Medical Astrology.

Prometheus was being punished for giving the gift of fire-making to human kind. Also, because Zeus demanded that Prometheus, who was the only one with the future-vision to know, tell him who was next in the line of Rulership of the gods, but he refused.

In the tropical Age sequence, the Fire-sign Age of Sagittarius was going to give way to the Age of Capricorn, whereby the god that Zeus had dethroned and locked away after the War of the Titans--his own father, Saturn the Devourer--would rule the Earth.

Ironic that it's now the father of Saturn--Ouranos, god of the Heavens, whom Saturn dethroned--who will be the next to Rule the World during the Aquarian Age. Saturn will fight until the end of this Age of Capricorn to hold on to power, even despite knowing it's a losing battle.

 

[leomoon]

I have been reading "Fixed Stars in the Chart - Constellation, Lunar Mansions and Mythology" by Oscar Hofman. It is a recent book published in 2019.



I acquired it on my last trip to Banyen books in Vancouver.


He associates Sagittarius totally to Chiron.


Talks of his kinship to Prometheus(forethought) and releasing him and himself from pain.


Also of interest, and I quote:



"The arrow of Sagittarius is a symbol of the world axis or the Pole, traditionally the divine centre around which everything turns. A link with this centre is to gain knowledge of the essence."



Also:


"Polis, a star on the arrow, gives optimism, success, ambition and sharp insights."


While, I am still not ready to agree that Sagittarius has total domicility of Chiron, I do find it of interest, the symbolism of the arrow and linking it to the axis, or pole.



With the other reading, I have done, and much of it talking of Chiron being a link to the Precession of the Ages, definitely a closer look at the stars of the arrow, are piquing my interest.


Back to myths and sky maps!


He also wrote a book called Classical Medical Astrology.

My BML is conjunct the "Galactic Centre" and trines my Moon in Leo- which is approx.27 Sag, last I looked....
Some people watch it closely:

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/blog/me-and-my-galactic-center/





.....(2017) The GC, and the new moon in December will be conjunct as well. Black Moon Lilith will conjunct in October. There’s a lot of stimulation going on with the Galactic Center in 2017. When Saturn opposed the Galactic Center in the early 2000’s, the Iraq War began. Pluto was also involved though, opposite Saturn, and that won’t be the case this time.




Even though I've always been this way, not just on a conjunction as described in 2017 - I found it interesting and very likely true. Perhaps diaries would be kept for others:


BML in Sagittarius rise up against corruption, with a complete disregard for the given laws and justice. BML in Sagittarius seeks the truth that really makes sense to them, what laws and principles they will act and stand by These issues are greatly enhanced during this BML transit (Feb 13th to Nov 9th, 2017).


from the link:
“We have a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws”, said Martin Luther King, who was born with a Black Moon Lilith in Sagittarius. It was also during a transit of BML in Sagittarius that a fundamental inspiration for Martin Luther was published: Civil Disobedience (1849), written by Henry Thoureau. Black Moon Lilith does not play in service, it materializes.


DID his BML or another planet aspect the GC? Seems so ....


https://vanessaguazzellipaim.com/black-moon-lilith-in-sagittarius-thre-great-leap-forward/.


His BML 15 Sag and his Saturn 21 SAG trined Jupiter - Saturn being the ruler of his Sun in Capricorn.



Rosa Parks is another -

 

[leomoon]

Waybread: Never say Never!


Remember the back and forth over Pluto with Astronomers kicking it out of planet status, then putting it back in?

Chiron makes dwarf planet status:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2060_Chiron
Although it was initially called an asteroid and classified only as a minor planet with the designation "2060 Chiron", in 1989 it was found to exhibit behavior typical of a comet. Today it is classified as both a minor planet and a comet, and is accordingly also known by the cometary designation 95P/Chiron. Michael Brown lists it as possibly a dwarf planet with a measured diameter of 200 km (120 mi)

 

[david starling]

Did astronomers re-reclassify Pluto?

 

[leomoon]

Did astronomers re-reclassify Pluto?

I loved the songs that came out then, the parodies, of Pluto ....great dissatisfaction and even sorrow for Pluto's demotion:


In August 2006 the International Astronomical Union (IAU) downgraded the status of Pluto to that of “dwarf planet.” This means that from now on only the rocky worlds of the inner Solar System and the gas giants of the outer system will be designated as planets.
Why is Pluto no longer a planet? - The Library of Congress

www.loc.gov/everyday-mysteries/item/why-is-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/

 

[leomoon]

Did astronomers re-reclassify Pluto?

Protest over Pluto's demotion: Demoted to a "dwarf" planet!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVLqY3e8BNw


What Astronomers say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhN-6JIz688

 

[david starling]

Protest over Pluto's demotion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVLqY3e8BNw


What Astronomers say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhN-6JIz688

https://westherald.com/scientists-change-their-minds-pluto-might-be-a-planet/3871/

 

[leomoon]

I subscribe to the theory, "A Rose is a Rose, by any name, it's still a rose"
In this case (and with Chiron) we see evidence of it in our natal charts working as though it's something, be it dwarf or whatever.

https://westherald.com/scientists-change-their-minds-pluto-might-be-a-planet/3871/

Last March,( numerous planetary scientists gathered in Houston at the annual Lunar and Planetary Science Conference. One of the presentations caught people’s attention – “A Geophysical Planet Definition”. It mentioned the following:

“In keeping with both sound scientific classification and peoples’ intuition, we propose a geophysically-based definition of ‘planet’ that importantly emphasizes a body’s intrinsic physical properties over its extrinsic orbital properties. A simple paraphrase of our planet definition – especially suitable for elementary school students – could be, ’round objects in space that are smaller than stars’.”
​

Obviously, not all astronomers share the same opinion, as this would mean that they should include most Moons found in our Solar System in the ‘planet’ category as well.
All in all, one thing’s for sure – the debate around whether or not to consider Pluto a planet is far from dead.

 

[david starling]

I subscribe to the theory, "A Rose is a Rose, by any name, it's still a rose"
In this case (and with Chiron) we see evidence of it in our natal charts working as though it's something, be it dwarf or whatever.




Last March,( numerous planetary scientists gathered in Houston at the annual Lunar and Planetary Science Conference. One of the presentations caught people’s attention – “A Geophysical Planet Definition”. It mentioned the following:

“In keeping with both sound scientific classification and peoples’ intuition, we propose a geophysically-based definition of ‘planet’ that importantly emphasizes a body’s intrinsic physical properties over its extrinsic orbital properties. A simple paraphrase of our planet definition – especially suitable for elementary school students – could be, ’round objects in space that are smaller than stars’.”
​

Obviously, not all astronomers share the same opinion, as this would mean that they should include most Moons found in our Solar System in the ‘planet’ category as well.
All in all, one thing’s for sure – the debate around whether or not to consider Pluto a planet is far from dead.

Fortunately, at least astrologers are in agreement about everything!

 

[Opal]

My BML is conjunct the "Galactic Centre" and trines my Moon in Leo- which is approx.27 Sag, last I looked....
Some people watch it closely:

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/blog/me-and-my-galactic-center/

.....(2017) The GC, and the new moon in December will be conjunct as well. Black Moon Lilith will conjunct in October. There’s a lot of stimulation going on with the Galactic Center in 2017. When Saturn opposed the Galactic Center in the early 2000’s, the Iraq War began. Pluto was also involved though, opposite Saturn, and that won’t be the case this time.




Even though I've always been this way, not just on a conjunction as described in 2017 - I found it interesting and very likely true. Perhaps diaries would be kept for others:


BML in Sagittarius rise up against corruption, with a complete disregard for the given laws and justice. BML in Sagittarius seeks the truth that really makes sense to them, what laws and principles they will act and stand by These issues are greatly enhanced during this BML transit (Feb 13th to Nov 9th, 2017).


from the link:
“We have a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws”, said Martin Luther King, who was born with a Black Moon Lilith in Sagittarius. It was also during a transit of BML in Sagittarius that a fundamental inspiration for Martin Luther was published: Civil Disobedience (1849), written by Henry Thoureau. Black Moon Lilith does not play in service, it materializes.


DID his BML or another planet aspect the GC? Seems so ....


https://vanessaguazzellipaim.com/black-moon-lilith-in-sagittarius-thre-great-leap-forward/.


His BML 15 Sag and his Saturn 21 SAG trined Jupiter - Saturn being the ruler of his Sun in Capricorn.



Rosa Parks is another -

For me, it is the midpoint of Jupiter and Moon. Both are on opposite sides of it conjunct the Galactic Center.

I’m always in the thick of something.🙄

 

[leomoon]

I’m always in the thick of something

After hearing what happened yesterday to Whoopie Goldberg, the actress, I felt that she had too; the BML in foot in mouth Sagittarius, and as it turns out, the same location in Sagittarius as I. Her BML is right on the Galactic Centre!
No wonder she's in such hot water now, and they are likely talking about her on Israeli TV, as well as London, Europe, everywhere they can, including Egypt. (they get ALL the latest news from here)


For "political correctness" she had to confess her faux paus, but as far as I'm concerned she should not have. She should have taken the time off they gave her, as a "punishment", (she's very wealthy), and stand her ground.
She's not being true to herself otherwise.

She is saying things in the apology she was forced to give by the boss on "The View" show she co-hosts, and in doing so, she is doing what I call the cardinal sin, of "not being true" Instead, by apologizing, she is supporting mis-information, the same Pisces fed negative misinformed U.S. and elsewhere information, we are seeing for the past 5 years.


Her sin? She said Jews are not a race. They are an ethnic group a religion.

Shes not wrong regardless of being forced into apologizing....


You all must know this story already, it's been everywhere yesterday and today:


Whoopie's 27 Sag BML is also semi-square (the worse of the worse) to her MOON. 10th house of the masses is where this falls for her.



https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goldberg,_Whoopi


check tr. for yesterday.....


WHY is the network allowing Hitler to re-write history? That is a question for a different place and time.



https://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/3336172-view-host-whoopi-goldberg-claims-holocaust-7.html#:~:text=Whoopi%20Goldberg%20is%20technically%
20correct.%20As%20she%20was,race.%20Hitler%20and%20the%20Nazi%27s%
20led%20the%20Holocaust.

 

[david starling]

After hearing what happened yesterday to Whoopie Goldberg, the actress, I felt that she had too; the BML in foot in mouth Sagittarius, and as it turns out, the same location in Sagittarius as I. Her BML is right on the Galactic Centre!
No wonder she's in such hot water now, and they are likely talking about her on Israeli TV, as well as London, Europe, everywhere they can, including Egypt. (they get ALL the latest news from here)


For "political correctness" she had to confess her faux paus, but as far as I'm concerned she should not have. She should have taken the time off they gave her, as a "punishment", (she's very wealthy), and stand her ground.
She's not being true to herself otherwise.

She is saying things in the apology she was forced to give by the boss on "The View" show she co-hosts, and in doing so, she is doing what I call the cardinal sin, of "not being true" Instead, by apologizing, she is supporting mis-information, the same Pisces fed negative misinformed U.S. and elsewhere information, we are seeing for the past 5 years.


Her sin? She said Jews are not a race. They are an ethnic group a religion.

Shes not wrong regardless of being forced into apologizing....


You all must know this story already, it's been everywhere yesterday and today:


Whoopie's 27 Sag BML is also semi-square (the worse of the worse) to her MOON. 10th house of the masses is where this falls for her.



https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goldberg,_Whoopi


check tr. for yesterday.....


WHY is the network allowing Hitler to re-write history? That is a question for a different place and time.



https://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/3336172-view-host-whoopi-goldberg-claims-holocaust-7.html#:~:text=Whoopi%20Goldberg%20is%20technically%
20correct.%20As%20she%20was,race.%20Hitler%20and%20the%20Nazi%27s%
20led%20the%20Holocaust.

The Nazis BELIEVED Jews were a race. So, their extermination program was based on racial hatred. Does that apply to Whoopi's original assertion that the Holocaust wasn't a racial phenomenon? The Nazis also went after Gypsies, also on racial grounds.