Identifiyng Chart Patterns

astro88

Well-known member
Hi, as I said in another thread I'm finally begginin the interpretation of my chart. Analysed the hemispheres, quadrants, but I'm having dificult to identify a pattern. If you can help:

Oct 11 1988 - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (22 S 54/ 43 W 14) - 19:02 (BZT2)
Ps: Asc is 4º Taurus.

My chart isn't that easy one to identify pattern. On one side I have majority of planets within a trine. On the other side I have Jupiter and Mars withn a sextile. It doesn't seem a See-Saw, because there are no opposition between "planets" and it isn't that balanced. Locomotive isn't also, because there isn't a null 120º space. Of course it isn't a bowl, bundle or funnel, because of distribution. A splash, it isn't splashed enough. Finally the Splay, there aren't amounts of planets separated enough (like by 60º). I think it doesn't fit any pattern, but at least I'd like to identify a pattern, not necessary a traditional one. Like should I consider that Jupiter and Mars are the only Estearn planets, surrounding the Asc and whose Midpoint is also in Asc?? Of there aren't leading planets, but Mercury is the oriental to Sun, and Neptune the most elevated. What do you think????

Lucas
 

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
I'm not too good with interpretation, but I'll attempt to make myself useful around here by posting links and uploading pictures...I'll enter in your information into Astrodienst and put the chart here so others can take a look.



I hope this helps...I'm not good for much else :?

Aquarian Maverick

P.S. I see that you also have your North Node in Pisces/South Node in Virgo...join our club! :D
 

astro88

Well-known member
Really thank you maverick, you made it much easier... and thank you again Tim, that's what I'm goin to do. As the Asc and MC are receiving points, I'll take the Kite focusing to the Asc, and maybe I consider the minor aspect pattern - trine Jupiter/Mc, both in sextile to Mars, again focusing on MC. I though that coul mean, for example, that I could have the oportunity (Jupiter/sextile) to use my energy and drive (Mars in Aries) in career (MC). Or receiving the support (Jupiter/ruler of 8th in 2nd) to reach my defined and directed goals and career (Mars/MC).


I'm trying to do not do this in a pretensious or convinced way. I just want to clear things out.

Thank you again. :wink: :wink:
 

Light

Well-known member
Hi Everyone

I'm ressurecting this thread merely for the title - and to save starting a new one -keeping the topics together. :D

Does anyone fancy playing a game, whilst trying to help out an aspectedly visually challenged beginner? :oops: :D

Is there anyone who has a pattern in their chart wo would like to tell me what it is and I'll try and find it? T squares and grand trines I'm Ok with - its the more difficult ones - kites, arrow, baskets etc. I can't relate to what I read in books to whats on the paper in front of me - all the extra lines confuse me - and I don't need much to confuse . :oops:

Thanks, in anticipation, for your help

take care

hel
 

wilsontc

Staff member
The astrology game

hel,

This game is easier than you think! Maverick has created a listing of charts from the grouplist, available at the top of every page in the Astrology Weekly forum called "Astrology Community's members' natal chart list". Open up the list of charts there.

Go to the "Arian Maverick" chart and find a:
Yod aspect pattern

Go to the "C Jayne" chart and find a:
Kite aspect pattern

Go to the "Draco" chart and find the:
Bundle chart indication

Go to the "Franklin Taylor" chart and find the:
Locomotive chart indication

That should get you started in the right "big picture" direction!
:)

Listing patterns,

Tim
 

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
Tim,

This is actually not a bad idea for another category! :mrgreen:

Perhaps could you help Draco and I comb through the charts and compose a list of the configurations that can be found in each chart?

Arian Maverick
 

wilsontc

Staff member
Long-term project

Maverick,

This sounds like a long-term project! :) I will take a look and post my answers to this page as I find time to work on it. Warning! I use non-planetary points in some of these aspects! These are only my opinions and are not to be taken as the opinions of Astrology Weekly or any of its affiliates. ;)

5th house moon:
Grand Square
Easy Opposition
Bucket chart


Ace:
T-square
Easy Opposition
Cradle
Bowl/Bucket chart


Amzolt:
T-square
Easy Opposition
Cradle
Bucket chart


Arian Maverick:
Yod
T-square (with Chiron) (with Jupiter between the nodes)
Mystic Rectangle (with Chiron between the nodes)
Bucket chart (with Chiron)


Astro88:
Cradle
Kite
T-square
Mystic Rectangle (with Chiron)
Easy Opposition (between the nodes)


Blumen:
Easy Opposition
T-square
Kite (to Midheaven)
Locomotive chart...almost (no trine between Neptune and Moon)


C1:
Kite (with Chiron)
T-square (with Chiron)
Locomotive chart (ignoring Chiron)


CalicoDreams:
T-square
Easy Opposition
See-saw or Bucket or Locomotive chart (Mars is handle of bucket, North node conjunct Saturn trine Mars for locomotive)


Aspectually,

Tim
 

Light

Well-known member
Tim

Many many thanks for starting me off on this. It's so difficult to relating what I read to what I actually see in the chart. I don't want to be shown where it is, but to be told there's one there and I have to find it for myself is perfect. Thank you.

Now do I have this right?

(BTW I have not looked at other posts- merely the charts)

Arian Mav Yod Pluto/Mars/Venus

C Jayne: Kite Uranus/Venus/Chiron/Asc

Draco: Bundle - this one I don't get. I thought bundles were more squished together like EVilPixyScorp? Draco's Chiron seems too far out. :oops: Please explain this one. What have I forgotten?

Franklin Taylor: Locomotive I can see this one. I even think the whole pattern looks like an insigna as if drawn by an oscillating pendulum! Is there a Kite there too? Uranus/neptune/saturn/jupiter/uranus?

Also, whats the pattern on C Jaynes chart ASC/uranus/jupiter/mars/chiron/asc ? Does this have a name? Only I've seen it before (in my limited number of observations) and it looked like it should mean something.

Anyway thanks again, Tim, this has started to give me the big picture as you say. Finding them in real life, anchors them.


Arimav

please, don't make it too easy for people like me. :lol: don't narrow it down too far - I like a challenge of discovering (that's my nnode in the 9th !) :wink:

Take care everyone

hel
 

wilsontc

Staff member
Chiron

hel,

Great job! :) You found them all! As to Draco, in general, in looking at aspect/chart patterns, I tend not to use Chiron. C Jayne is an exception because Chiron is conjunct some other planets, so I allow it. I don't know what pattern "ASC/uranus/jupiter/mars/chiron/asc" is, however "ASC/uranus/jupiter/chiron/asc" is a Mystic Rectangle. And yes, Franklin also has a kite as you described in his chart. It sounds like you know more astrology than you realize! :)

Agreeing,

Tim
 

franklin taylor

Well-known member
Hello,
I see you used my chart as an example for a locomotive. I had not even thought of it as such, but I really had not talked about my chart too much. I had seen it in so many different possible ways. If you unaspect Chiron, unaspect the trine Saturn trine Neptune, (which is to wide going by American Federation of Astrologers allow only 8 degrees and mine is over 9 degrees. I have a Western hemisphere "Bucket Chart" with Saturn as a "Singleton". I have read different translations of "Saturn trine Neptune" and I feel it is applicable to me but who knows for sure. I'd be blind I guess if I could not get the "Kite" picture, but everyone has their own unique translation which often collides with other's and becomes a general consensus. I have read some differing translations of the Locomotive. I fit the part where all my planets are within the 240 degree section of the chart. What is differing is one source says the first planet going, (by this I mean my Saturn placement), Counterclockwise is the leading planet one other source says that going clockwise the first planet (My Neptune) would be the leading planet. There is a "little" difference between the two :lol: I feel more Saturnish. Too serious for some around me. Always been a overly cautious person while still taking big risks, I am an ex- combat job soldier for goodness sake. I gained ranks up to three months early based on job performance in the field artillery corp. Just like I have read, my focus in life was to be an excellent worker no matter if I was shoveling chicken guts at Tyson foods, working at sawmills, shooting artillery rounds, or working my own cattle farm. No matter what planet is leading, my 6th house (quality of service) emphasis is certainly a focal point in my life PERIOD, and my chart certainly points to that.
Take Care.
Franklin
 

Light

Well-known member
Hey thanks everyone. :D

This has anchored a lot in such a short space of time. The cradle is the one I though looked like a pram! :oops: Some just have the raincovers up! :oops: :D


Tim

Easy opposition. I've never heard of this before (until I read the posts above and realised it's also called a wedge, which I have heared about). How do these work? Is it because the wayout of the opposition is easier to use the trine and the sextile rather than the challenges of the squares? (or all too easy depending on the planets or points involved?)

Franklin

Your chart was a good illustration for me . Thanks!


Thanks to everyone

take care

hel
 

wilsontc

Staff member
locomotive? bucket?

Franklin,

Ah, yes, the atrological debate of what counts as "in orb", part of the aspect pattern, part of the chart pattern, etc.! ;) Part of the problem is we aren't conveniently born into aspect or chart patterns...we are born into certain energy and then the astrologer comes along and tries to label us! Sometimes it is easy to do...but other times the astrologer has to admit they can't find the pattern and have to give up. So each of us has their own opinion and we try to find some "middle ground" with our fellow astrologers! ;)

In my personal astrological opinion, I see two possible patterns. The locomotive pattern and the bucket pattern. Since Chiron is conjunct Saturn and Chiron is only 6 degrees away from Neptune, I called this a Chiron trine Neptune aspect and called the chart a locomotive chart. Now that we have talked about the locomotive...let's talk about the bucket.

From Tracy Marks' "The Art of Chart Interpretation:"

Bowl pattern - "All planets fall within 180 degrees (or a maximum of 190 degrees) and on one side of an opposition, and no more than 60 degrees or two houses of the occupied portion of the chart are empty...can function in a self-contained manner in the houses occupied by planets, but usually focuses upon achieving in the unoccupied area (particularly in the sign and house which opposes the midpoint of the bowl)...(the first [planet] to have crossed the ascendant, moving clockwise) indicates the energies most frequently used to fulfill his/her needs."

Bucket pattern - "...a bowl pattern with a handle...a planet or two closely conjunct planets at least 30 degrees from the planets within the bowl...channels...[their] energy through the handle of the bucket. The sign and house position of this singleton or focal planet usually indicates the kind of energy this person most frequently expresses and the area of life through which... [they] seek satisfaction."

Using this definition, we first look for an opposition between planets in your chart...and we see you have Saturn opposite Uranus. So Saturn opposite Uranus makes the "dividing line" in your chart. This means the bucket is formed by all the planets on one or the other side of Saturn opposite Uranus. In this case all the planets are "below" the Saturn-Uranus opposition. Now, if this is the bowl part of the chart, the "handle" of the bowl (making the bowl a bucket) is the one remaining planet on the other side of the opposition...Neptune.

This is interesting because Neptune is also a VERY important planet in your locomotive chart. Again from Tracy Marks:

Locomotive pattern - "All planets fall within 240 degrees (or a maximum of 250 degrees) with no more than two houses or 60 degrees empty within the occupied area, and with a trine bridging the unoccupied area...energetic, self-driving, determined individual who single-midedly focuses upon achieving...[their] purpose, which is generally indicated by the midpoint of the empty trine...(the first [planet] to have crossed the ascendant, moving clockwise) is the engine; its sign and house position indicates the energy which fuels...[their] drive to incorporate the midpoint of the empty trine into...[their] life."

The first planet to have crossed the Ascendant, moving clockwise is...Neptune! So, no matter WHICH aspect pattern we use, we end up with Neptune. This seems to indicate that Neptune (spirituality, also confusion) is a VERY important energy in your life...in one way or another.

And now a little bit about that Saturn. According to some astrologers, Saturn is your "cutting planet", that is, Saturn (duty, also structure) is the way things BEGIN in your life. Neptune is the "trailing planet", that is, Neptune is the way things END in your life. So maybe things begin in a very "structured" way but the END result is spiritual (or confusion, take your pick! ;) ).

Spiritually confused,

Tim
 

wilsontc

Staff member
Easy Opposition

hel,

You asked:
Easy opposition. I've never heard of this before (until I read the posts above and realised it's also called a wedge, which I have heared about). How do these work? Is it because the wayout of the opposition is easier to use the trine and the sextile rather than the challenges of the squares?

Here's another one: "Point of Thales". That's the name I first heard for this configuration. Later I heard that Alan Oaken called the same aspect the "Easy Opposition" and I quickly jumped on the name ("Point of Thales" was a little too weird-sounding for me! ;) ) The idea is exactly what you describe: all the benefits of the T-square with a LOT less stress! :) And that is because the opposition is made "easier" by the connecting of the sextile and trine (both easy connectors of chart energy).

And now, time for a correction: the "wedge" is also another term for the yod as well. To eliminate confusion, I have eliminated my old post with the reference to the "wedge" as another name for an "Easy Opposition".

Easily self-correcting,

Tim
 
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