I am starting to doubt my Leo Rising

theV

Well-known member
Rectification Tips - Verifying Ascendant/Descendant/MC/IC angles

There are multiple methods of rectification

for example
.
ANIMODAR RECTIFICATION

Thanks. But I need an example to clarify this not only theoritical instruction. I was born after a new moon in Virgo 2 degree 29. 26 of AUG 1995 at 5:30 am. I didn't understand instruction 4 and further on.

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theV

Well-known member
I'd like to state recent dates:

Graduation Ceremony 1st of july 2019
Recieving my diploma but with an adminstrative error 6 of july 2019
Recieving corrected diploma 11 of july 2019

theV

Well-known member
Recieving a contract from abroad in 24 of June at 14:00. The moon is in Pisces 23 and the Sun is in cancer 2 degree and the Ascendant was in Libra 17 degree which makes sense since I have pisces in the 9th, Cancer in the 12th which rules foreign affairs, and Libra in the fourth home. I think the birth time is correct then if to consider the sun in the 12th and the moon in the 9th tightly conjuncting the houses at the exact time I recieved it. But if we put the IC on the degree of Libra 17, it means I will have cancer rising. The transiting moon and sun then will be in the house of foreign affairs but not tightly conjuncting them.

Therefore, I believe i was born on 3:40 and the ascendant is 5 degree leo and not 6. Vertex in my natal chart is 17 degree which conjunct Jupiter at that moment. If I put cancer rising, it would be 11 degree saggy and it wouldn't make a conjunction.

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thanks. But I need an example to clarify this
not only theoritical instruction.
I was born after a new moon in Virgo 2 degree 29. 26 of AUG 1995 at 5:30 am.
I didn't understand instruction 4 and further on.
FOUND ILLUSTRATION OF THE ANIMODAR METHOD

AS FOLLOWS
:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar
One last thing, chart rectification. How does this work? Could you show me?

Now that I have figured out the Animodar sure.

I'll use Professor Gumby's chart to keep it simple. That chart is a Preventional Chart. How do we know? Because the Moon is applying to the conjunction of the Sun having completed its opposition to the Sun. So we need to cast a Lunation Chart for the Full Moon prior to birth (we would cast a Lunation Chart for the New Moon if the chart would be Conjunctional).

We use the Light Above Horizon for Full Moon Lunation Charts (and that would include a Lunar Eclipse for this purpose). That is the Sun at 28° Taurus 07'.

Which Planet has the greatest Dignity in the Sun? Venus does. Venus is the Sign Ruler and Venus is the Earth Sect Triplicity Ruler.

Now, switch back to the Natal Chart and look at Venus. To which is Venus closer in Degrees, the Ascendant or the Midheaven? Obviously the Midheaven at 1° Virgo 31'.

Yes, there are 30° in Virgo, but at Latitude 39°N07' how many degrees actually cross over the Midheaven as the Ascendant crosses the Horizon?

Look at the Right Ascensions of the Midheaven. We want the full 30° of Virgo so we subtract the Right Ascension at 0° Libra from the Right Ascension at 0° Virgo.

180°00' = 0° Libra at 39°N07'
152°05' = 0° Virgo at 39°N07'
-------
xxxxxxx

179°60'
152°05'
-------
027°55'

Now, the Midheaven is at 01°Virgo31' so how much Right Ascension is that?

153°32' = 1°31' Virgo at 39°N07'
152°05' = 0°00' Virgo at 39°N07'
-------
001°27'

We need the Hourly Distance of Venus.

Venus is at 4° Cancer 39'. Her Right Ascension is 95°04 and her Oblique Ascension is 74°30.

The Ascensional Difference is the Right Ascension minus the Oblique Ascension:

Venus is out-of-Bounds in this chart with a Declination of 24°N54' so we add the Ascensional Difference to 90° giving us 110°34' for the Semi-Diurnal Arc (we would subtract if the Declination was Negative and we would reverse that for those living in the Southern Hemisphere).

The Temporal Hours will be the Semi-Diurnal Arc divided by 6:

TH[Venus] = 110°34 / 6 = 18°25'

Then to find the Hourly Distance, we divide the Meridian Distance by 18°25'

How far away is Venus from the Midheaven by Right Ascension? We just subtract the RA of Venus from the Right Ascension of the Midheaven (RAMC).

Meridian Distance = 153°32' - 95°04'

Meridian Distance = 58°28'

Now we divide the Meridian Distance by the Temporal Hours to get the Hourly Distance

HD[Venus] = 58°28' / 18°25'

HD[Venus]= 3°10'

The Hourly Distance tells you the number of Houses away from the Meridian (either the MC or the IC) that a Planet is and that is what the whole number represents, and the fractional part is how far away from the Cusp of the House that Venus is.

Each House is essentially 2 Diurnal Hours. Think of the chart as a clock where the Ascendant is 6:00 AM so then 3 Houses or 6 Hours (3 * 2 = 6) later it is 12:00 PM and that is the Midheaven and the 6 Hours later is the Descendant at 6:00 PM and then 6 Hours later is the Nadir/IC at 12:00 AM and then we've come full circle back to the Ascendant at 6:00 AM in a 24-Hour period.

We just have to set up a simple proportion or a ratio:

27°55' : 2 = 1°27' : X

From our high school math, we know to cross-multiply and divide, and so we have:

2 * 1°27' / 27°55' = X

It's easier to use decimal notation:

2 * 1.45 / 27.91666 = X

2.9 / 27.91666 = X

0.03582 = X

So, um, what exactly is "0.03582" in Degrees?

It is less than 1°. That is what the big fat "0" means.

Let's multiply by 60 to convert to minutes:

60 * 0.03582 = 2.1492

That gives us 0°2.1492' of arc.

Multiply the 0.1492 * 60 = 8"

So there is a difference of 0°02'08"

Can we round that off? Sure, let's call it 0°02'

Now, there are 24 Hours in one day and 360° in the Zodiac Circle.

How many Degrees are in 1 Hour?

Simple, 360 / 24 = 15° and you might notice the longitudinal meridians around Earth are 0° 15° 30° etc and most of the Time Zones are based on those.

If there are 15° in 1 Hour, how many Degrees are in 1 Minute?

Simple, 15° in 60 Minutes or 1° every 4 Minutes.

And that is 30' every 2 Minutes or 15' every Minute/60 Seconds or 1' every 4 seconds.

So my birth time is off by about 8 or 9 seconds or so.

Now, if I was the Anal Retentive Astrologer, I would rip everything up, chuck it out the window and start with a whole new chart and post 30 "Read My Chart" threads about the new birth time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar
Thanks for the help. I'll pay you back one day

Pay it forward. Attached Images
Crosby Wealth.jpg (52.2 KB, 130 views)
Gumby Wealth.jpg (51.4 KB, 96 views)
Gumby Full Moon.jpg (37.5 KB, 96 views)

I'd like to state recent dates:
Graduation Ceremony 1st of july 2019
Recieving my diploma but with an adminstrative error 6 of july 2019
Recieving corrected diploma 11 of july 2019
Recieving a contract from abroad in 24 of June at 14:00. The moon is in Pisces 23 and the Sun is in cancer 2 degree and the Ascendant was in Libra 17 degree which makes sense since I have pisces in the 9th, Cancer in the 12th which rules foreign affairs, and Libra in the fourth home. I think the birth time is correct then if to consider the sun in the 12th and the moon in the 9th tightly conjuncting the houses at the exact time I recieved it. But if we put the IC on the degree of Libra 17, it means I will have cancer rising. The transiting moon and sun then will be in the house of foreign affairs but not tightly conjuncting them.
Therefore, I believe i was born on 3:40 and the ascendant is 5 degree leo and not 6. Vertex in my natal chart is 17 degree which conjunct Jupiter at that moment. If I put cancer rising, it would be 11 degree saggy and it wouldn't make a conjunction.

theV

Well-known member
First we need to locate the Moon in the unrectified chart, let us call it the ‘base chart’. Is it above or below the horizon?
Next we need to calculate the distance from Moon to Ascendant (if the Moon is under the horizon) and from Moon to Descendant (if the Moon is above the horizon)
After that we refer to the table provided by Lilly (If the Moon is above the horizon every twelve degrees between Moon and Descendant is incremented by a day, beginning with 258 days gestation. If the Moon is below the horizon each 12 degrees between Moon and Ascendant is incremented by one day, beginning with a gestation period of 273 days – you can refer to the article The Moon and Gestation here at Altair Astrology for more detail)
Once we have the number of days of gestation we need to find the day. Convert the birth date into the Julian day and then subtract the gestation period, then convert this Julian Day back to the Georgian date. The Calendar Converter at fourmilab can do this, but most astrology software should have this function.
Once we have the date we can refer to an ephemeris and see if the Moon is indeed near the Ascendant degree of the base chart.
If it is, then we can use the rectify function of our astrology programme to enter the Moon’s position as the Ascendant for the day found.
What is the Moon’s position for the conception chart? We note this, then we recalculate our base chart with this degree as the Ascendant and note what the birth time would be for this new position. In fact this chart is now our new ‘base chart’ and we can use it for checking primary directions.

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
First we need to locate the Moon in the unrectified chart, let us call it the ‘base chart’. Is it above or below the horizon?
Next we need to calculate the distance from Moon to Ascendant (if the Moon is under the horizon) and from Moon to Descendant (if the Moon is above the horizon)
After that we refer to the table provided by Lilly (If the Moon is above the horizon every twelve degrees between Moon and Descendant is incremented by a day, beginning with 258 days gestation. If the Moon is below the horizon each 12 degrees between Moon and Ascendant is incremented by one day, beginning with a gestation period of 273 days – you can refer to the article The Moon and Gestation here at Altair Astrology for more detail)
Once we have the number of days of gestation we need to find the day. Convert the birth date into the Julian day and then subtract the gestation period, then convert this Julian Day back to the Georgian date. The Calendar Converter at fourmilab can do this, but most astrology software should have this function.
Once we have the date we can refer to an ephemeris and see if the Moon is indeed near the Ascendant degree of the base chart.
If it is, then we can use the rectify function of our astrology programme to enter the Moon’s position as the Ascendant for the day found.
What is the Moon’s position for the conception chart? We note this, then we recalculate our base chart with this degree as the Ascendant and note what the birth time would be for this new position. In fact this chart is now our new ‘base chart’ and we can use it for checking primary directions.
That is the Trutine of Hermes
a useful rectification technique from antiquity

generally known as the Prenatal Epoch

'....Ascendant, or its opposite, at birth, is Moon's position at conception.
....Known as "Trutine of Hermes,"
from Hermes Trismegistus who stated the law as follows:
.....The place of the Moon at conception
becomes the birth ascendant or its opposite point....
But this proved to be but one-half of a very important law
for while the
Ascendant at birth was the place of the Moon at a certain Epoch
the Ascendant or its opposite point at this Epoch
was the place of the Moon at birth
....a very remarkable interchange of factors E.H. Bailey.

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
'......Never take your rectification too seriously.
No matter how good it is.
No matter how compelling the evidence appears.
It is still speculative
And most of all, never attempt to pass off a rectified chart as a verified birth time.
This is one of the cardinal sins of astrology,
that astrologers would be excommunicated for
IF the astrological community was some sort of an organized religion
or cult
.....' http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2009/12/11/five-tips-for-birth-chart-rectification/

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*

Two excellent books
in detail
are:

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I am trying to use Lilly's way of rectifiying using the conception day, But I am confused what is my exact conception day is. I am following his method stated in this article:

https://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.c...e-trutine-of-hermes-in-lilly-merchants-chart/
Lillys rectification source is known as THE TRUTINE OF HERMES
aka PRENATAL EPOCH
and the following detailed instructions
on precisely how to calculate the pre-natal Epoch Rectification Method
the purpose is determining/establishing the Ascendant

theV

Well-known member
I am trying to rectify using my prenatal epoch. My moon is below the horizon and is increasing in light which means according to this
Moon below the earth and increasing in light.

Period of gestation is 273 days plus "x".

"Count is to AC, because increasing and is 115 degrees. This divided by 13 equals 9 days the period is lengthened. Hence "Epoch Date" falls 9 days before "Index Date."

So I am supposed to count from the ASC to the Moon 13 degrees and see how many days are there?

theV

Well-known member
I am trying to rectify using my prenatal epoch. My moon is below the horizon and is increasing in light which means according to this
Moon below the earth and increasing in light.

Period of gestation is 273 days plus "x".

"Count is to AC, because increasing and is 115 degrees. This divided by 13 equals 9 days the period is lengthened. Hence "Epoch Date" falls 9 days before "Index Date."

So I am supposed to count from the ASC to the Moon 13 degrees and see how many days are there?

When I did calculate, I found out there 10 days. Can someone confirm this?

I ended up with two days for the day of conception:

22 Nov 1994 THE MOON WAS IN CANCER WHICH MIGHT MAKE IT THE ASCENDANT
23 Nov 1994 THE MOON WAS IN LEO WHICH MIGHT MAKES IT THE ASCENDANT

The problem I don't know whether I counted right.

This means I could end up with two birth time:

Cancer rising: at 2:55 AM
LEO RISING at: 3: 54 AM

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I am trying to use Lilly's way of rectifiying using the conception day, But I am confused what is my exact conception day is. I am following his method stated in this article:

https://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.c...e-trutine-of-hermes-in-lilly-merchants-chart/
Lillys rectification source is known as THE TRUTINE OF HERMES
aka PRENATAL EPOCH
and the following detailed instructions
on precisely how to calculate the pre-natal Epoch Rectification Method
the purpose is determining/establishing the Ascendant
I am trying to rectify using my prenatal epoch. My moon is below the horizon and is increasing in light which means according to this
Moon below the earth and increasing in light.

Period of gestation is 273 days plus "x".

"Count is to AC, because increasing and is 115 degrees. This divided by 13 equals 9 days the period is lengthened. Hence "Epoch Date" falls 9 days before "Index Date."

So I am supposed to count from the ASC to the Moon 13 degrees and see how many days are there?
Instructions for calculation of TRUTINE OF HERMES that Lilly used
are stated in great detail

at the link I provided http://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen034.htm
where it is titled THE PRENATAL EPOCH
HOWEVER
the Trutine of Hermes is aka The Prenatal Epoch
Certainly the method requires time to process
and so it is simply a matter of taking time to read, study

theV

Well-known member
@ JupiterAsc Yes, I do understand the instruction. But I am not sure whether I calculated the degree well. I started from 6 degree leo and counted + 13 degree until I reached Sagittarius. But I ended up in 8 degree sagittarius starting from 6 degree leo. I don't know now if it is 9 days or 10 days

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
@ JupiterAsc Yes, I do understand the instruction. But I am not sure whether I calculated the degree well. I started from 6 degree leo and counted + 13 degree until I reached Sagittarius. But I ended up in 8 degree sagittarius starting from 6 degree leo. I don't know now if it is 9 days or 10 days
if you not only understood, but also followed correctly
the instructions at http://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen034.htm
then all you can do is revise your calculations
because the instructions are very clear and detailed

First image is the possible conception day when the moon was in 25 degree cancer. and the second possible concetion day makes the moon in 7 degree leo close to my actual ascendant.
I put Sagittarius as the ascendant to both conception chart according to this article:

https://altairastrology.wordpress.c...rectification-trutine-of-hermes-and-animodar/
I recommend to study and read the article at the link I provided
http://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen034.htm
titled THE PRENATAL EPOCH - simply another name for THE TRUTINE OF HERMES
the instructions are comprehensive, detailed regarding all eventualities
so take time to process these

theV

Well-known member
The ASC and the Moon are 119 degree apart. 119 divide on 13 gives off 9 which means 9 days added to 273 it is 282. The day of conception would then be 23 NOV 1994.

"In orders Nos. 1 and 4 the distance in degrees of the Moon from the horizon last crossed (AC or DC), divided by thirteen, gives "x", or the number of days by which this period is decreased; and in orders Nos. 2 and 3 the distance of the Moon in degrees from the horizon which it is approaching, divided by thirteen, gives the number of days by which this period is increased."

"Always remember that since the Moon at birth becomes AC or DC at Epoch and vice versa,"

We put the natal moon as the ASC of epoch chart and the epoch moon would be in cancer which means the natal asc is cancer.

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
The ASC and the Moon are 119 degree apart. 119 divide on 13 gives off 9 which means 9 days added to 273 it is 282. The day of conception would then be 23 NOV 1994.

Quote:
"In orders Nos. 1 and 4 the distance in degrees of the Moon from the horizon last crossed (AC or DC), divided by thirteen, gives "x", or the number of days by which this period is decreased; and in orders Nos. 2 and 3 the distance of the Moon in degrees from the horizon which it is approaching, divided by thirteen, gives the number of days by which this period is increased."

"Always remember that since the Moon at birth becomes AC or DC at Epoch and vice versa,"

We put the natal moon as the ASC of epoch chart and the epoch moon would be in cancer which means the natal asc is cancer.
So I checked my paper copy of AMERICAN EPHEMERIS for 23 November 1994
and
on that date, Moon was indeed in Tropical Cancer
but only until 4PM GMT
because at that time
Moon ingressed Tropical Leo on the day in question
nevertheless
presumably you have already created a chart
that shows your Pre-natal Epoch chart Moon
is same degree as your natal ascendant

theV

Well-known member
Yes, JupiterAsc. The chart below shows the Epoch ASC in the degree of the natal Moon which makes the Epoch Moon still in Cancer. Thus, making my ASC in CANCER AND NOT LEO!!!!! MEANING I WAS BORN ON 2:54 AND NOT 3:45!

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