I am confident I discovered America's True Natal Chart

skywatcher1221

Well-known member
RayAustin said:
I don't see how that matters (if that was true). That would imply every ancient chart is incorrect. As long as you have the birth date, time and location, that's all that matters. Time zones are fake, anyway, they aren't a 'law'.

Charts are calculated on Local Mean Time (or True Local Time) which differs from Standard time. Back in the day when we calculated charts by hand, we were taught to convert the birth time to the "real" time in the locality. Nowadays we have computers to do all the heavy lifting but the principle still applies.
 

Amit89

Well-known member
I'm not sure if the following is significant. I've seen and heard American's complain about endless, boundless amount of adverstising during commerical breaks, ecspecially during sports games. There seems to be lot of emphasis on marketing from what I've heard and seen. Could this small bit of data show America's true natal chart?
 
I subscribe to Ray Merriman's MMA Cycles montly report. He is a financial analyst who used to be a commodities trader and saw the connection between market cycles and astrological cycles. He uses the date July 2, 1776, as the "birth date" for the USA, because that is the date the Declaration of Independence was actually signed. His forecasts for changes in market cycles have been on the nose, especially recently -- he forecast a 3-star critical reversal in the market for March 23, and if you paid attention to that kind of thing, you will know that the stock market had a nearly 500 point gain on March 23. In his March 25 newsletter, he forecasts a radical transformation of the Federal Reserve Board between now and 2011, and a fierce power struggle between the US government and the FRB. He also forecasts a return to inflation because of the mutual reception of Jupiter and Neptune in Aquarius, the May-July 2009 period being the strongest part of the aspect, and with Uranus in Pisces, a sudden and unexepcted return to inflation. Berrnanke (Chrmn, FRB) recently said there is no risk of inflation in the foreseeable future. Mr. Bernanke is notable for his lack of accuracy in making economic forecasts.
In Ray Merriman's "Forecasts for 2009" book, which may still be available from him, he says that Jupiter, Pluto and Saturn are coming to a cardinal climax in Capricorn, in hard aspect to each other, to form a T-square. The midpoint is August 1, 2010. The moon's north node will be 10 degrees Capricorn at this time, moving toward a conjunction with Pluto in November 2010.
According to his calculations, Pluto at the midpoint of this T-square in Capricorn can correlate with the forced removal of prominent government and business leaders, through revolution, impeachment, or even assassination. I'm not saying he's predicting an attempt on the president, just providing information. He says it is possible that the bottom of the current economic trend may be reached within 18 months of August 2010, which would be around February 2012. His bottom or low for the DJIA is between 1420 and 3550. When the DJIA was beginning to sink last year, he forecast a low of 6550 +/- 330 for the next leg down back in November. The low so far has been a close of 6547.06 on March 6, 2009. While we are currently in a rally, unless the DJIA breaks above 8475, which is the resistance level, the trend remains bearish. Any close below 6850 means that the bear market trend is resuming, and the next leg down for the DJIA could be 6250 +/- 240. There is an upward trend going on now, however, although the DJIA yesterday reached a high of 7904.04, it closed at 7749.75.
You can do what you like with this information. You can watch to see the power struggle between the Fed and the US Government emerge. Is the FRB trying to privatize the US government? You can go his website, MMA Cycles, and read his weekly preview, and backdate his forecasts. He has been very accurate so far, and as I said, he uses the July 2, 1776 date as the "birth date" for calculating events for the USA, and I am satisfied with his accuracy, so you might try using the same data as his and compare it with yours.
 
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skywatcher1221

Well-known member
Cold Fusion said:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pride
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrogance

It sure describes our Military, and I don't know if you watch TV or not, but you will notice alot of War, Wrestling, Fighting, and not to forget about "Justice" programs.

I think the Mars square Neptune sums that up, we glorify weapons and destruction, and glorify ourselves for our military conquests.

I'm sorry but I think that fits America perfectly.

But does the military represent the whole country? For the armed forces, I propose the chart for the start of the American Revolution (sunrise, April 19, 1775, Lexington, Massachusetts). This is the first armed conflict by Americans fighting as Americans (who previously considered themselves English).
 

skywatcher1221

Well-known member
grantorino said:
is there a chart for the USA that has Gemini rising ?

Yes, but the time would have placed the signing in the middle of the night, not likely. The Sagittarius rising chart has Pluto in the Second House, Pluto ruling plutocrats. The country's wealth is concentrated in the hands of the few, leaving the rest of us to dine on crumbs from the rich man's table.
 
In my records I have at least 5 different birth times for USA, in each one I can find some points that, in my opinion, fit very well and others that don't...so far I couldn't make a decision on which one to pick up as the "one".

Here the link to a site were an australian astrologer has rectified the USA birth date to 02:12 am on July 4th, Gemini rising, but I honestly I don't know if I can trust his skills or not, he made a prediction on 2006 that the healt of Queen Elisabeth II was goig to deteriorate a lot between 2007 and 2008 and by August of 2008 Prince Charles would become King...I'm not a britishman but cannot help saying very loudly "God save the Queen....!!"

http://www.astrology-reading.com.au/USA_horoscope.html
 

Awakened_Pisces

Well-known member
skywatcher1221 said:
Yes, but the time would have placed the signing in the middle of the night, not likely. The Sagittarius rising chart has Pluto in the Second House, Pluto ruling plutocrats. The country's wealth is concentrated in the hands of the few, leaving the rest of us to dine on crumbs from the rich man's table.

I never thought of that, interesting. And as Pluto is transiting Capricorn, this private power structure is being revealed slowly but surely.
 
Ray Merriman bases his USA chart on David McCullough's "1776", which addresses the history of the American Revolution. He places the date for the vote on the Declaration of Independence in Philadelphia, PA as July 2, 1776 and a time rectified for 5:43PM, LMT. My experience has been that his forecasts have been extremely accurate and reliable, which is why I have referenced him. You could cast a chart using that date and time, and draw a comparison. I've subscribed to his monthly newsletter for several years, and find his data to be correct. It's still worth it to do a comparison study.

Especially since we are now facing a massive change, there is huge conflict between the influences of Saturn (defensive, stand still, maintain the "status quo") and Uranus (change/disruption, speculation, rebellion, surprise). It is easy to fall into a "gloom and doom" mindset, but the last time this kind of thing happened was the birth of the Renaissance, and Ray has several times referred to this period as another Renaissance.
 
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I don't mean this in a sarcastic way, but you are joking, aren't you?
If you're not, the Renaissance was the beginning of the Age of Enlightenment in Europe in the 14th century, a burst of discovery in science, exploration, art and literature. If you want to know as much as possible about it, there are plenty of excellent historical books. It actually began with a competition in 1386 for the new doors of the Vatican. I think it was that year, might have been a bit earlier. Galileo built the first telescope that allowed a man to see Jupiter's moons and Saturn's rings. He also discovered sunspots, which meant that the sun was not "perfect" and was castigated for saying that. Copernicus, Tycho Brahe and Johannes Kepler all contributed to the science of astronomy and mathematics. The "New World" was discovered by Christopher Columbus, in his quest to find the shortest route to the Orient. Spain, England, France and the Netherlands all engaged in global exploration. Rembrandt, Titian, Rubens, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and Botticelli are a few of the artists who produced magnificent art. Michelangelo was commissioned by the Pope to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.
I can't believe that anyone does not know about the Renaissance, but I'm sure that anyone at the public library can direct you to a whole slew of well-researched historical reference books and articles on the subject.
 

death

Active member
this is cool; im cancer w/ sag rising and even though i was always very rebellious, at the end of the day i always felt an understanding of this country: how it got away from the boundaries of europe in a faraway place through discovery etc, but then again, scorpio would be understandable when keeping in mind the eagle and such
 

lalalaheidi87

Well-known member
Ariel Moonshadow said:
Especially since we are now facing a massive change, there is huge conflict between the influences of Saturn (defensive, stand still, maintain the "status quo") and Uranus (change/disruption, speculation, rebellion, surprise). It is easy to fall into a "gloom and doom" mindset, but the last time this kind of thing happened was the birth of the Renaissance, and Ray has several times referred to this period as another Renaissance.

not sure if you're talking about some other aspect too (only read bits and pieces of thread) but if youre just talking about the the saturn-uranus cycle, it repeats itself every 40 or so years. they were opposed last time in the mid 60's, conjunct of late 80's, and now opposed again.
 

Cold Fusion

Well-known member
I did a little bit of work and made this, I used Clairvision.

This is the July 4 1776 5:10 chart with fixed stars and some sfuff from this very website. I used both constellations of the world and astrology on the web for this:

Tropical Zodiac

longitude latitude right ascension declination
Sun Can 13°19'22" 0°00' 06h57'54" 22N48'
Moon Aqu 27°10'16" -1°51' 22h00'09" 14S12'
Mercury Can 24°12'R -3°52' 07h41'33" 17N29'
Venus Can 03°06' 0°06' 06h13'33" 23N32'
Mars Gem 21°23' 0°23' 05h22'20" 23N34'
Jupiter Can 05°56' -0°04' 06h25'51" 23N16'
Saturn Lib 14°48' 2°31' 12h58'25" 03S31'
Uranus Gem 08°55' -0°04' 04h28'53" 21N44'
Neptune Vir 22°25' 1°15' 11h34'08" 04N10'
Pluto Cap 27°33'R -3°07' 20h01'11" 23S43'
North Node Leo 06°35'48"
South Node Aqu 06°35'48"
Mean North Node Leo 07°35'30"
Ascendant Sag 12°21'11"
Midheaven Lib 01°03'20"
(?) Part of Fortune Can 26°12'
(?) Vertex Can 26°09'
(?) East Point Cap 00°53'
(?) Black Moon Vir 19°28'21"
Black Moon Apogee Geo.Leo 27°07'R 1°51' 09h59'54" 14N13'
Black Moon Focus Geo.Leo 27°07'R 1°51' 09h59'54" 14N13'
Black Moon Apogee Bary.Leo 27°07'R 1°51' 09h59'54" 14N13'
Black Moon Focus Bary.Leo 27°06'R 1°51' 09h59'52" 14N13'

(?) Placidus Houses:
ASC:Sag 12°21' 2:Cap 16°04' 3:Aqu 24°53'
IC:Ari 01°03' 5:Ari 29°48' 6:Tau 22°34'
DES:Gem 12°21' 8:Can 16°04' 9:Leo 24°53'
MC:Lib 01°03' 11:Lib 29°48' 12:Sco 22°34'

Sun

Sirius
With Sun: Success in business, occupation connected with metals or other martial affairs, domestic harmony. If rising or culminating, kingly preferment.

Ambition, pride, emotionality, fame, leadership, wealth, fires, drought, danger through impetuosity.

Mercury

Procyon
With Mercury: Occult interest, minor position of management under Government, trouble and scandal through opposite sex, favorable for health and gain.

Violence, sudden success then disaster, occult, politics, dissipation

Venus

Propus
Overconfidence, pride, shamelessness, violence

Mars

al Hecka
With Mars: Evil companions, bad habits, sex troubles, and afflictions of a Mars-Venus type.

Honours, wealth, power, greed, aggression

Jupitr

Alhena
With Jupiter: Social advancement and success, philosophical mind, love of ostentation.

Acute sensitivity, creative imagination, artistic skills, writing, injuries to feet

Saturn

Seginus
It gives a subtle mind, shamelessness and loss through friends and companies. [Robson*, p.207.]

Business, astrology, law, loss through friends, deceitful, shameless




This IMO describes everything that has been talked about, I think it is very accurate for the usa. Unfortunately this isn't very inspiring.


[Moderator note - In accordance with the Forum's Copyright Rules, the quoted/copied text has been pruned.]
 
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