Husband's inaccurate birth time is driving me nuts!!


New member
Mods please delete my post thank you

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Premium Member
First, I might ask, how does your husband initally present himself [rising sign].

Is he warm, is he reserved?
What is his body type?

Also, what sign is his Sun, ruler of Leo?
What sign is his Merc, ruler of Virgo?

These can help you deduce if he is Leo or Virgo rising.
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Well-known member
Hi everyone!

My husband's mother presented me with a document from the hospital he was born at, which noted his birth time as 1:30pm.

We sought confirmation for this time from the hospital, however, they had his birth time noted on record as 1:25pm.

Whilst 1:25pm or 1:30pm might be the totally accurate birth time, I believe that he was likely born between 1:25pm-1:30pm, and the hospital staff just rounded up/down.

This has bothered me for years because his ascendant would be between 28°36' Leo or 0°20' Virgo.

Does anyone have any advice on how I could determine which sign is most likely his rising sign? i.e. based on his appearance, his upbringing, your experience with 28°-29° Leo risings and 0° Virgo risings.

Thanks :love:

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Verifying Ascendant/Descendant/MC/IC angles

11-30-2019, 06:00 AM

Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,621

Re: Animodar
I have found a method that is more physical than this and does not involve the preceding syzygy or numerology.

36. Nativities
When the moment of nativity is known, it can be examined instead of the moment of conception, the hours must be determined with knowledge of accidental qualities, and with one of the planets in perfect configuration with the Hour-Marker or the Midheaven at every conception and nativity
So, let the Ascendant or the Midheaven be in perfect conjunction, sextile, square, trine or opposition with one of the seven planets regardless of other factors.

We might theorize why this is so - conceptions and births of humans are powerful moments in nature that require the strongest influence of a planet on angles.
UPDATE :smile:
Yes, nowadays I ignore the syzygy and focus on the planet which makes the closest exact aspect to the Asc (and Dsc) or the Mc (and Ic). A major technical difference between this and the Ptolemaic Animodar is that mine requires a planet to be at the angle or in aspect, while Ptolemy seems to allow it to be disjunct, only requiring the numeric degree it has passed within its sign to be the same (it is like an exact semi-sextile or inconjunct modern ''aspect''). This does not seem physical to me, but rather numerological and uncharacteristic of Ptolemy's intentions of astrology.

So I recommend that one follows a more limited approach with regard to aspects, but more broad approach with regard to rulers. Often, the two methods (the Ptolemaic Animodar and the Petosiris Animodar) will give the same results, since they are based on similar physical reasoning.

I recommend one step - a planet in conjunction, sextile, square, trine or opposition with an angle. Take for example the chart of Ptolemy's second biggest fan (after me) - Girolamo Cardano -,_Girolamo

There is no planet in aspect with an angle at 18:29 when the Ascendant is at 6° 22' Taurus. But noticing that Jupiter is nearby, we can put him exactly at the Ascendant giving us 18:20 time, or a 9 minute rectification. Jupiter rising rather than declining may better explain his life and fame.
consider using the foregoing
instead of the following

1. Examine the preceding syzygy, whether it was a new moon or a full moon.
2. If the preceding syzygy was a new moon, observe its degree at the time of the nativity.
3. If the preceding syzygy was a full moon by night, we observe the degree of the syzygy. By day, we observe the degree opposite the syzygy, which is the degree of the luminary above the horizon (in that case the Sun).
4. Observe the degree at the approximate time of the nativity, and give a point to any of the following planets with rulership over the degree at the time of birth (see*.html#note9)


5. Give a point to any planet in the same sign as the degree or in sign with some aspect (sextile, square, trine or opposition) to it.
6. If one star is familiar with the degree in all or most of these ways, whatever degree of its sign it is passing at the time of birth, the same numerical degree is rising (Asc) or culminating (Mc) at the time of birth.
7. If two or more stars are predominators, observe the one that is closer to the approximate time. If it so happens that we do not have the nearest hour of birth, we can establish it through combination of accidental qualities. The foregoing rectification is for time with approximate hour.
sourced from the following thread link:smile:


Staff member
His sun is conjunct his mercury, both in Taurus.

He is of moderate hight and weight, dark complexion, with a full head of black hair. There is a section of hair on his crown that sticks right up if it is cut wrong - which is why I believe he is a Leo rising :lol:
If his potential AC rulers are conjunct each other, and in the same sign, that makes using his appearance to determine his ascendant very difficult. Ascendant ruler is one of the key testimonies we look at for physical appearance (rising sign also plays a part, and sun and moon signs, and any planets in the first house or conjunct the ascendant). If his rising sign is Virgo, its ruler conjunct Sun could add some Leo-like qualities. If it's Leo, the conjunction to Mercury could add some Mercury/Virgo quality. Either way, Sun and Mercury are both reflected.

And either way, Taurean qualities could show up, because of both potential chart rulers being in Taurus.


Well-known member
Did you try a pre-natal epoch and try to match up with mother's known natal. There should be a connection with the ASC. I think.

Here is a link: (but you can find a lot on the internet)

The Prenatal Epoch

The primary principle of the Prenatal Epoch has been stated by Max Heindel in The Message of the Stars, where he says that the body is the product of lunar forces and that the position of the Ascendant, or its opposite, at birth, is the Moon's position at conception. The keyword of the Moon is fecundation or fertility, and it is Jehovah and the lunar Angels that preside at the birth of a child. This is stated in the Cosmo-Conception and other works of the Rosicrucian Philosophy. We thus see that the Moon has primary influence over the formation of the physical body, and that the Ascendant represents merely the transference of the Moon's position from conception to birth.
This law was known to the ancients as the "Truitine of Hermes," from Hermes Trismegistus, who first correctly formulated and stated the law as follows: "The place of the Moon at conception becomes the birth ascendant or its opposite point."
"But this proved to be but one-half of a very important law, for while the Ascendant at birth was the place of the Moon at a certain Epoch, the Ascendant or its opposite point at this Epoch was the place of the Moon at birth -- a very remarkable interchange of factors." --E.H. Bailey.

From what I recall years ago when I tired it, it worked for my chart and my mother's.
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