How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
To compare the US government with Germany under National Socialism just doesn't fly on any grounds that I can think of. If you think it does, then you provide the hard evidence.
fwiw and with thanks to piercethevale for providing the link originally here's news video of the recent shocking events :smile:

Police Unleash Attack Dogs, Suspend Students for "Thought Crimes" After Students Protest Conditions at School
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/864958/police_unleash_attack_dogs,_suspend_students_for_%22thought_crimes%22_after_students_protest_conditions_at_school/


- A group of enterprising public school students in Maryland tried to stage a basic protest over poor conditions, including 40-person classes, bad food, and poor treatment of both teachers and students.

In response,
police brought attack dogs to the school and a number of students were suspended for what they call "thought crimes."

Incredible example of increasing crackdowns, resembling those on Occupy encampments - including attacks on public schools. Intelligent, brave young student's interview with Thom Hartmann
 

Zonark

Well-known member
fwiw and with thanks to piercethevale for providing the link originally here's news video of the recent shocking events :smile:

Police Unleash Attack Dogs, Suspend Students for "Thought Crimes" After Students Protest Conditions at School
http://www.alternet.org/newsandview..._after_students_protest_conditions_at_school/


- A group of enterprising public school students in Maryland tried to stage a basic protest over poor conditions, including 40-person classes, bad food, and poor treatment of both teachers and students.

In response,
police brought attack dogs to the school and a number of students were suspended for what they call "thought crimes."

Incredible example of increasing crackdowns, resembling those on Occupy encampments - including attacks on public schools. Intelligent, brave young student's interview with Thom Hartmann:
http://www.alternet.org/newsandview..._after_students_protest_conditions_at_school/

Thank you for these links, JupiterAsc. The state of mind allowing these events is disturbing to say the least.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thank you for these links, JupiterAsc. The state of mind allowing these events is disturbing to say the least.
Most disturbing Zonark, "The War is on Free Speech... Free Speech is under attack" - Thom Hartmann

Internet freedom is under attack
:smile:
 

Zonark

Well-known member
Most disturbing Zonark, "The War is on Free Speech... Free Speech is under attack" - Thom Hartmann

Internet freedom is under attack
:smile:

Absolutely, it "shouldn't have been invented" in the words of our dear friend and Patriarch of the Rockefeller clan.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Absolutely, it "shouldn't have been invented" in the words of our dear friend and Patriarch of the Rockefeller clan.
Clearly the dude feels threatened by the facility with which the internet allows people around the globe to interact and share information fast :smile:
 

Zonark

Well-known member
Clearly the dude feels threatened by the facility with which the internet allows people around the globe to interact and share information fast :smile:

JupiterAsc I have to ask because it's been just a personal quirk of yours that keeps puzzling me... what's with the smiley faces?
 

Rushwing

Well-known member
God forbid I should approach this lightly, advocating peace and personal accountability when everyone else deems themselves so crucially helpless to the world's governmental "powers"...

We we are not victims.... judge me unintelligent, or anything that you wish, but I will not surrender to such a falsity.

Actually, I agree with most of what you are saying, however, what I can;t help but feel is actually you are looking down your nose at us, and that is much more repellent and ignorant than our ignorance or frustration with your arrogance.

The impression you give us is in my best words, is that we who find information gathering a thrilling hobby, or talking about these possibilities with the intention to be prepared for them, as if we are all talking about these things as if we are monkeys simply throwing poop, when many of us have genuine empathy and knowledge about things going on in the world that you prefer to shut out, for your own reasons that have nothing to do with a superior worldview or philosophy. Well get to that though. . .

I myself, do not condone what I call "fear-mongering" but however, sharing information, communicating knowledge, even if that knowledge is frightening to some, is not necessarily negative.

I don't know why you got the strong reaction you did from others, about the sexualizing comment, but I think it is because it is seen over your other comments as if you are belittling the rest of us for being concerned. That is what the problem is here.

I happen to be one of those "fringe" people by the very nature of my sexual identity. Sometimes in my human weakness, I fear soon some law will pass that limits my freedom. I am unlike you I suppose in that way. However..I am also unlike you that I am not afraid to admit it or admit when I am wrong.

I will say though that when I am in my personal power position, I am aware, grounded, connected and compassionate to others. I am aware that there may be a day, when people begin to dissapear in black vans accross the street from me, or I may dissapear in a black car, simply because of who I am or what I said. I desire to be prepared for that day, and I desire other people to be prepared. Especially be prepared for the fact that even if I said nothing at all and someone simply pointed a finger, I might dissapear.

The fact is its already happening. It happened, it happens it will happen! (I am a bit of a history buff as well.) In the us, it is mostly the undocumented that dissappear these days (truth, my mother teaches many undocumented children), in places like china however, simply having a blog that circumvents the firewall will get you imprisoned and tortured to death.


It is my philosophy of life that it is better for us to be talking freely and without fear as long as we can. Let us stick together and support each other as human beings then against tyranny! Let us fight to protect each other, with continued communication, (warnings) compassion and togetherness.

I hope if I get taken away ever, or someone I know does, I hope you aren't the person witnessing from across the street. My instinct tells me, you would do nothing, which is probably the impression that other people are reacting to as well and of course its not popular. You are going to have to accept that. In all forms of my own truth, my truth tells me that is not the way we are supposed to be as human beings. We are not supposed to be cold and distant and self-serving. Forgive me, it might not be true that you are this way, but I feel you may have a problem like that.
 
Last edited:

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JupiterAsc I have to ask because it's been just a personal quirk of yours that keeps puzzling me... what's with the smiley faces?
There is always a reason Zonark - although some reasons are less obvious than others and perhaps I'm as puzzled as you :smile:
 

waybread

Staff member
You know, Zonark-- you must be right. I guess I do "look down my nose" at conspiracy theorists. There! That felt better, didn't it? I look up to people who marshall evidence and reason to support their positions. And, no: "evidence" does not consist of any unknowledgeable person who feels frightened or angry getting up on YouTube, making invidious comparisons with Nazis, or refusing to supply substantiatable information in support of his position. Sure there's Opinion A vs. Opinion B. But at some level, a debate goes beyond opinion. It has to do with data and reason.

One helpful site is www.factcheck.org.

My actual opinion is that today's current poor economic climate coupled with the "open mike" of the Internet have provided a rich breeding ground for conspiracy theories. This would seem to be bolstered by problems with the US education system, which apparently isn't teaching how government or financial institutions operate. It bothers me slightly that astrologers fall for this kind of stuff, because sensible people out there in the rest of society think we're crazy enough as it is.

And I am still waiting to learn whether you and other conspiracy theory proponents have voluntarily signed away your privacy to Google. You have if you have a gmail, YouTube, or Google books account. Read Google's so-called "privacy policy" if you aren't sure what I mean. You've signed away a lot of privacy voluntarily if you post a lot of stuff on Facebook. You've given away privacy if you provide any personal data to the clerk at the check-out counter (like your phone number), or if you have a listed phone number. Identity theft is rampant: what steps have you taken to protect yourself from ordinary criminals?

So why worry about the government invading citizens' privacy when so many US citizens voluntarily relinquish their privacy to private enterprise or scam artists without a second thought?
 
Last edited:

Zonark

Well-known member
You know, Zonark-- you must be right. I guess I do "look down my nose" at conspiracy theorists. There! That felt better, didn't it? I look up to people who marshall evidence and reason to support their positions. And, no: "evidence" does not consist of any unknowledgeable person who feels frightened or angry getting up on YouTube, making invidious comparisons with Nazis, or refusing to supply substantiatable information in support of his position. Sure there's Opinion A vs. Opinion B. But at some level, a debate goes beyond opinion. It has to do with data and reason.

My actual opinion is that today's current poor economic climate coupled with the "open mike" of the Internet have provided a rich breeding ground for conspiracy theories. This would seem to be bolstered by problems with the US education system, which apparently isn't teaching how government or financial institutions operate. It bothers me slightly that astrologers fall for this kind of stuff, because sensible people out there in the rest of society think we're crazy enough as it is.

And I am still waiting to learn whether you and other conspiracy theory proponents have voluntarily signed away your privacy to Google. You have if you have a gmail, YouTube, or Google books account. Read Google's so-called "privacy policy" if you aren't sure what I mean. You've signed away a lot of privacy voluntarily if you post a lot of stuff on Facebook. You've given away privacy if you provide any personal data to the clerk at the check-out counter (like your phone number), or if you have a listed phone number. Identity theft is rampant: what steps have you taken to protect yourself from ordinary criminals?

So why worry about the government invading citizens' privacy when so many US citizens voluntarily relinquish their privacy to private enterprise or scam artists without a second thought?

I didn't use the words "look down your nose". That was someone else. It doesn't feel better either, I was hoping to gain a bit of respect from you but apparently the nature of my speculation is offensive :unsure:. Conspiracy theorists do not always deal with hard facts. A conspiracy theory would cease to be a conspiracy theory were it backed up entirely with solid facts. It would then progress to being a factual event. Conspiracies are, by their nature, separate from conclusive fact.

If
you're so worried about being seen as crazy by society over your interest in astrology and involvement with its community then I have news for you. Your interest isn't very sincere. Now I don't believe that's true, I think that you just want to be more accepted in circles you've come to see as the 'sane' ones. That's fine, but please don't be an apologist. It's not fitting of an occultist and it's not your place to try and 'polish' the image of the astrological community.

I frequently use alias programs like Abine, work behind proxies, vms, disabling geotagging, shredding and burning old documents and cards and regularly take other simple precautions against snooping and identity theft. Even still, I willingly and knowingly share many things online which can be monitored and am not trying to hide it all. If it seemed like that is what I was implying, I assure you that's not the case. I'd have to be very stupid to think that were possible and still switch on my computer! :w00t:

Yes, I agree that some conspiracy theorists are so worried about Big Brother they can't see the threats from the little guy, but that's really a personal thing and by no means applies to everyone who could be called a conspiracy theorist.
 
Last edited:

Monk

Premium Member
Hi Zonark,

The only person i have great esteem for in Central Africa, was Romeo Daillaire who become Canadian you have cause to be proud, he couldn't stop conflict because he was only one man, the dogs left Rwanda to rot in hell!

I haven't finished link but perhaps you would like to comment on link:-

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=373973

I know you have interest in this area of the world...perhaps JupiterAsc would like to comment?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
To compare the US government with Germany under National Socialism just doesn't fly on any grounds that I can think of.

If you think it does, then you provide the hard evidence.
clearly, in the US groups of people of a particular racial type/skin colour are being targeted with apparent impunity:smile:

Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager was shot dead by Neighbourhood Watch volunteer, 28-year-old George Zimmerman February 2012 in Sanford, Florida. His shooter told police Trayvon looked "suspicious" walking through a gated community so he killed him in self-defence. Police did not arrest Zimmerman at the time of the shooting and have refused to arrest him since.

The Martin family lawyer Benjamin Crump said that Trayvon was just an innocent young man walking back from a visit to the local corner shop, and that he had every right to be in the gated community where he was shot dead.


A rally was organised on Facebook by Daniel Maree, a concerned citizen with no affiliation to any particular group. He told Sky News: "I spent some time in Florida and as a young black man I experienced being stopped by the police for no other reason than I was black in a predominantly white neighbourhood. This rally is about supporting Trayvon's parents, for them to know that they have national support over this terrible tragedy, and that we will campaign for justice for their son." Calls are growing for the resignation of Sanford's police chief Bill Lee. Three separate investigations into the incident are ongoing.

Killer Vigilante George Zimmerman 'Lynched' Trayvon Martin, who lost his life for carrying a Bag of Skittles and Iced Tea Zimmerman weighs 250lbs and had a 9mm handgun; Martin weighed 140lbs and had a packet of Skittles and a can of iced tea. Being a young black male, it seems, is reason enough... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbHPRhqpuUc&feature=related
 
Last edited:

Monk

Premium Member

Attachments

  • picture 60 50%.jpg
    picture 60 50%.jpg
    60.8 KB · Views: 19

Sweet Pea

Well-known member
Thanks for the long and interesting discussion, folks, after I posted that CIA article.

I think the Pluto/Scorpio archetype is strong on both sides of the surveillance issue: Pluto moving into Capricorn has intensified governmental and institutional spying on citizens, and the Pluto in Scorpio generation who are now becoming adults are those who have been most seduced by the wonders of technology into sharing the intimacies of their daily lives and relationships on the social networking sites.

Of course, those of us with Scorpio strong in our charts see this intrusion into "our business" as particularly unnecessary, if not downright sinister, and do what we can to shield our personal life behind avatars and other devices so that we can communicate with others like us, yet retain - as far as we can - our personal privacy.
 

Monk

Premium Member
Nice one Sweet Pea,

I have Regulus and Pluto on my M.C. at time of birth so see your point, although U.S. Patriot Act was brought in soon after 9/11, it was TEMPORARY, the senate fought over this for years, however was SIGNED INTO LAW on 9th and 10th March 2006, most of Senate objections were removed.

Please scroll down to "details":-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

Or below:-

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/patriotact/

Or link below:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SyKILxSdtk

Funny isn't it on 9th March 2006, that using Egyptian day marker, Sunrise, that Osiris star, Alnilam, Belt of Orion is on the Nadir in Washington D.C.

Link on attachment:-
 

Attachments

  • picture 284 50%.jpg
    picture 284 50%.jpg
    55.6 KB · Views: 21

MaeMae

Banned
I never confuse America with the U.S Gov't.
Somewhere the gov't started telling us what they want from us instead of us telling them what we want from them.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Nice one Sweet Pea,

I have Regulus and Pluto on my M.C. at time of birth so see your point, although U.S. Patriot Act was brought in soon after 9/11, it was TEMPORARY, the senate fought over this for years, however was SIGNED INTO LAW on 9th and 10th March 2006, most of Senate objections were removed.

Please scroll down to "details":-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act
Or below:-
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/patriotact/
Or link below:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SyKILxSdtk

Funny isn't it on 9th March 2006, that using Egyptian day marker, Sunrise, that Osiris star, Alnilam, Belt of Orion is on the Nadir in Washington D.C.
Link on attachment:-
Could it be yet another bizarre co-incidence aka synchronicity perchance, Monk? I'm not being Sirius btw :smile:
 

waybread

Staff member
I didn't use the words "look down your nose". That was someone else. It doesn't feel better either, I was hoping to gain a bit of respect from you but apparently the nature of my speculation is offensive :unsure:. Conspiracy theorists do not always deal with hard facts. A conspiracy theory would cease to be a conspiracy theory were it backed up entirely with solid facts. It would then progress to being a factual event. Conspiracies are, by their nature, separate from conclusive fact.

If you're so worried about being seen as crazy by society over your interest in astrology and involvement with its community then I have news for you. Your interest isn't very sincere. Now I don't believe that's true, I think that you just want to be more accepted in circles you've come to see as the 'sane' ones. That's fine, but please don't be an apologist. It's not fitting of an occultist and it's not your place to try and 'polish' the image of the astrological community.

I frequently use alias programs like Abine, work behind proxies, vms, disabling geotagging, shredding and burning old documents and cards and regularly take other simple precautions against snooping and identity theft. Even still, I willingly and knowingly share many things online which can be monitored and am not trying to hide it all. If it seemed like that is what I was implying, I assure you that's not the case. I'd have to be very stupid to think that were possible and still switch on my computer! :w00t:

Yes, I agree that some conspiracy theorists are so worried about Big Brother they can't see the threats from the little guy, but that's really a personal thing and by no means applies to everyone who could be called a conspiracy theorist.

Thanks again, Zonark-- this one was Today's Chuckle. I am old enough to be your mother and then some {personal attack deleted by moderator} .

Your explanation of conspiracy theories was helpful. I am beginning to see the problem. Silly me: I thought that some people actually believe in these things, rather than seeing them as a flight of fancy.

I am not an "occultist." It isn't a term I particularly like. I don't apologize for astrology, BTW. I might apologize for specific individuals who practice (or think they practice) astrology because their writings just make me cringe.

Anyway, it would appear from your post that Google does collect a lot of information on you that you voluntarily signed away.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

waybread

Staff member
Thanks for the long and interesting discussion, folks, after I posted that CIA article.

I think the Pluto/Scorpio archetype is strong on both sides of the surveillance issue: Pluto moving into Capricorn has intensified governmental and institutional spying on citizens, and the Pluto in Scorpio generation who are now becoming adults are those who have been most seduced by the wonders of technology into sharing the intimacies of their daily lives and relationships on the social networking sites.

Of course, those of us with Scorpio strong in our charts see this intrusion into "our business" as particularly unnecessary, if not downright sinister, and do what we can to shield our personal life behind avatars and other devices so that we can communicate with others like us, yet retain - as far as we can - our personal privacy.

Sweet Pea, I think it works the opposite way. Pluto in Capricorn is generating a lot of mistrust and fear among people about the government. This doesn't mean the surveillance is real. It means that people fear that it is real.

I mean, how many government employees in any kind of surveillance work do you imagine there are, in comparison with the number of Americans? How many people, then, would each government surveillance employee have to spy on for how much time and with what data in order to glean anything useable about your life?

I strongly suspect that the numbers just don't pan out. Due to the economic recession, police departments across the country are firing officers. So we have your local police, the FBI, and maybe the IRS; plus individual agencies (like the NSA) dealing with national security issues; immigration; tobacco, alcohol, and fire arms. We could even throw in the military with its Pentagon employees, and the CIA, although their work is focussed on overseas. How many employees overall per US citizen would you imagine? You'd have to deduct the employees working for the National Park Service, Medicaid/Medicare (they can't even keep track of the fraud within their system,) the congressional delegation from Alaska, and so on.

And again-- have you voluntarily signed away your privacy by having an account with Google-based services such as gmail, YouTube, google books? What about Facbook or another social networking site?

Why worry about the government, when most American happily give away their privacy rights to these commercial ventures?

And maybe you've hit it right with Scorpio: perhaps this sign tends to be more suspicious. This doesn't mean it is correct, however.
 
Top