How to Recognize Physical Beauty

[dioskouris]

In lieu of the "ethnocentricity", I've added some of the ones I know. They are, or are at some point in their life, universally considered "beautiful".

They all have a RR of AA except for J Baker which is a C. There are a few apparent exceptions to what Cypocryphy surmises as an indication for beauty based on a natal chart, so it's open for discussion.

Vanessa Williams - Former Miss America

A possible exception, I do not see anything here.


Halle Berry [Is there are reason this woman apparently doesn't age?]

Another possible exception. There is a sextile between ASC and Venus, but it is very wide with an orb of 9. However, Jupiter conjunct her chart ruler Venus, perhaps that 'expands' her beauty and Venusian qualities? Plus NN conjuncts her ASC exactly


Dorothy Dandridge

ASC trine Venus


Lena Horne

Possible exception again


Phylicia Rashād [Bill Cosby's wife in The Cosby Show]

Another possible exception


Josephine Baker

ASC trine Venus


Florence "Flo Jo" Griffith Joyner - American Track Star in the 1980s, still holds the women's 100m Record

Possible exception? She does have Venus rising, and her ASC conjunct her NN


Serena Williams - American Tennis Player

No relation between Venus and ASC that I can see, but she is a Libra with Venus Rising so maybe that helps.

 

[IWDWSWLM]

Whitney Houston was also stunning in her youth and had what many beauty specialists called perfectly symmetrical features.

 

[Cypocryphy]

In lieu of the "ethnocentricity", I've added some of the ones I know. They are, or are at some point in their life, universally considered "beautiful".

This is great! Thank you.

They all have a RR of AA except for J Baker which is a C. There are a few apparent exceptions to what Cypocryphy surmises as an indication for beauty based on a natal chart, so it's open for discussion.

Yes. They all do. I have to comment on Vanessa Williams' chart, however. When I first looked at her chart, she had a low Rodden rating. But just two days ago, they found her birth announcement and updated her data on astro.com.

In August 2013 the time 11:28 am was confirmed, when Scholfield quoted the autobiography "You have no idea", which has on page 73 "Vanessa was born ten days late on March 18, 1963, at 11:28 am". A copy of the baby card appears on page 75.

Regarding Vanessa Williams' chart, look at her bounds, and you will see the Venusian influence. In the beginning of this post, I mentioned the influence of the terms. These usually reinforce the already existing aspects, but you will almost always find that if you do not have the aspects, the ascendant will be in the bounds of Venus.

Halle Berry's time has an A rating because it is from memory. So it might be off, which could make the sextile to her ascendant much stronger.

I'm going to look at the others, such as Lena Horne, in more detail when it is not so late. But this is wonderful. I really appreciate this post. Thank you.

I'm going to share some others that I found, as well. These all have, allegedly, "known birth times."

Nutan Samarth

She has a perfect trine to her ascendant.

Dimple Kapadia

She has Venus as the chart ruler (often a substitute for the other factors as can be seen), forming a trine to her Moon in the first house.

Vanmala

Her ascendant is in libra, making Venus her rising sigh, which forms an opposition to the ascendant.

Shashikala

Venus forms a sextile to the chart ruler, which is Jupiter.

 

[The_Saturnian]

There is an expression in my country: If you want to be beautiful, you must suffer.
I never thought of this group of planets before, but was surprised when I examined it.
Just some thoughts ...
Pluto is whatever its influence connected to Venus by the Scorpio/Taurus axis.
Saturn should have influence on the bones construction and together with Venus the attractive design,
Saturn together with Pluto the aging process and suffering.
Venus and Pluto for the beautiful magical appeal, the mystery of the femme fatale beauty DNA.
Those 3 together in the mix a beautiful magical design.

This theory certainly lives up to the saying in your country. Your explanation does make sense. Although I do have question - Wouldn't Mars fit in anywhere with this trio?

 

[Cypocryphy]

Whitney Houston was also stunning in her youth and had what many beauty specialists called perfectly symmetrical features.

Whitney Houston

Houston's Venus forms a trine to her chart ruler, which is Jupiter.

 

[The_Saturnian]

This mixed trio combined with Mars can be found in charts of attractive athletes, physical beautiful sports women, muscular and energetic women.

Ah I see. I had a suspicion that Mars may play a role because quite often many famous celebrities have their own personal trainers and thus help them acquire and maintain that Herculean look.

 

[StillConfused]

Yesterday I read this thread and it disturbed me to my core, I knew without searching that for every chart of an attractive person showing an aspect of Venus to the Ascendant/chart ruler, there are many that do not have this. I pushed my Aquarian 'craziness' about how everyone is beautiful in different ways, attractiveness being a matter of taste and impossible to determine or measure, to the side, for a definition of attractiveness based on the general opinion of the masses, and set out to find some exceptions to the rule for the thread, and indeed there were some, including Marilyn Monroe, which I see has already been brought to your attention, and you've addressed.

I abandoned ship because I was hesitant to make a contribution to this thread, on this touchy subject - and yes, it is touchy, however untouchy we may like it to be - and I was literally falling asleep, but I felt bad. And I would like to rectify that by at least giving my opinion.

I am no longer disturbed. It is not racist. It is not sexist. It is not even saying that those who lack these Venus aspects are necessarily denied physical beauty. You've fixed all that. I applaud you for your innovation, and for trying to share what could be an interesting astrological link to physical attractiveness. You meant no harm. I feel that your adamant defence of your Venus theory for women, is unhealthily single-minded, and displays a good example of astrology being manipulated to ineffective use. Never mind a study that shows that women are unable to judge the attractiveness of a man without factoring in success, defences such as nurses possibly (sounded like surely?) recording birth times 20 mins off, leave no room for real answers. I don't understand what you're so convinced about your Venus theory for. Give it time. And facts.

 

[Cypocryphy]

Yesterday I read this thread and it disturbed me to my core, I knew without searching that for every chart of an attractive person showing an aspect of Venus to the Ascendant/chart ruler, there are many that do not have this. I pushed my Aquarian 'craziness' about how everyone is beautiful in different ways, attractiveness being a matter of taste and impossible to determine or measure, to the side, for a definition of attractiveness based on the general opinion of the masses, and set out to find some exceptions to the rule for the thread, and indeed there were some, including Marilyn Monroe, which I see has already been brought to your attention, and you've addressed.

I abandoned ship because I was hesitant to make a contribution to this thread, on this touchy subject - and yes, it is touchy, however untouchy we may like it to be - and I was literally falling asleep, but I felt bad. And I would like to rectify that by at least giving my opinion.

I am no longer disturbed. It is not racist. It is not sexist. It is not even saying that those who lack these Venus aspects are necessarily denied physical beauty. You've fixed all that. I applaud you for your innovation, and for trying to share what could be an interesting astrological link to physical attractiveness. You meant no harm. I feel that your adamant defence of your Venus theory for women, is unhealthily single-minded, and displays a good example of astrology being manipulated to ineffective use. Never mind a study that shows that women are unable to judge the attractiveness of a man without factoring in success, defences such as nurses possibly (sounded like surely?) recording birth times 20 mins off, leave no room for real answers. I don't understand what you're so convinced about your Venus theory for. Give it time. And facts.

Fair enough. But I am defending it because there are a significant amount of examples to make this a compelling case for astrology working relatively consistently, although in the end, it could be wrong. Time will tell, which is why I defend it. It should not yet be abandoned.

I am aware that self-esteem can be largely centered on one's appearance, but it really is an insignificant factor. The aging process, accidents, life stress, and much more, will all have an impact.

Ask yourself this: if I were analyzing this as to who is considered tall and who is considered short based on astrological factors, would you be so perturbed? Try not to look at this so subjectively or as some case where it makes a judgment upon a person because they either have Venus or or they do not. It is really a small part in the makeup of a person.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Ah I see. I had a suspicion that Mars may play a role because quite often many famous celebrities have their own personal trainers and thus help them acquire and maintain that Herculean look.

I also suspect Mars may play a role - that's because the first example of Physical Beauty posted is of Pamela Anderson - a Hollywood actress/star famous for the multiple cosmetic surgeries she has endured in order to attain the Hollywood ideal of Physical Beauty

Hollywood stars are notorious in fact for 'going under the knife' in order to further their careers by attaining the current fashionable ideal of Physical Beauty - JMO Physical Beauty is judged by society, and since societies differ then ideal Physical Beauty is not 'set in stone' but instead is a variable ALMOST entirely dependent on the perception of cultural norms and values. I say 'almost' because there are many within any society who - as individuals - frequently differ from the status quo view of 'normal' and 'valuable' indicators of Physical Beauty.

Not everyone agrees that Physical Beauty consists entirely of strategically applied makeup to cover cosmetic surgery scars all combined with carefully chosen camera angles

 

[JUPITERASC]

Some male examples: - - -

Jean Claude van Damme: Venus/Mars=Venus/Saturn, Venus/Pluto=Mars/Asc.,
Mars/Saturn=Sun/Moon, Mars/Pluto=Saturn/Pluto,
Mars/Pluto=Venus/MC, Saturn/Pluto=Venus/MC
Mars/Pluto=Venus/Asc., Saturn/Pluto=Venus/Asc.

Brad Pitt: Venus/Mars=Saturn/Pluto, Venus/Mars=Venus/Jupiter,
Venus/Saturn=Asc/MC, Venus/Pluto=Saturn, Venus/Pluto=Mars/Equatorial Asc.
Venus/Pluto=Venus/Asc, Venus/Pluto=Mars/MC,
Mars/Saturn=Pluto, Mars/Saturn=Mars/Neptune,
Mars/Pluto=Equatorial Ascendant, Mars/Pluto=MC, Mars/Pluto=Mars/Asc.
Saturn/Pluto=Venus/Jupiter

Johnny Depp: Venus/Mars=Saturn/Pluto, Venus/Mars=Mars/Saturn,
Venus/Saturn=Mars/Neptune, Venus/Saturn=Mars/Asc.,
Venus/Pluto=Mars, Venus/Pluto=Saturn/Pluto,
Mars/Saturn=Venus, Saturn/Pluto=Mars

James Dean: Venus/Mars=Saturn, Venus/Mars=Saturn/Pluto, Venus/Mars=Pluto,
Venus/Mars=Mars/MC, Venus/Saturn=Venus/Pluto, Venus/Pluto=Ascendant,
Venus/Pluto=Venus/Saturn, Venus/Pluto=Asc/MC,
Mars/Saturn=Mars/Pluto, Saturn/Pluto=Mars/Equatorial Asc., Saturn/Pluto=Mars/MC

Chico Marx Venus Trine Ascendant
Harpo Marx Venus Square Ascendant
Groucho Marx Venus conjunct Ascendant

 

[wilsontc]

Deleted the attacks, to All

All,

While there was some astrology in the attacks and responses to the attacks, the attacking posts violated the Forum rules on civility and quoting those attacks simply continued the problem. And there is a rule against responding to or quoting attacks (contact a Moderator instead). There was some good astrology in those posts. Repost them without the attacks and trolling comments and they can stay up.

Deleting,

Tim

 

[Cypocryphy]

Chico Marx Venus Trine Ascendant
Harpo Marx Venus Square Ascendant
Groucho Marx Venus conjunct Ascendant

Funny. I laughed with the Mars joke, too. That was witty. The Marx brothers as an exception is interesting, although it is based on dirty data. I had someone give me a birth time that was off by two hours and some minutes once. We asked his mother what the time of his birth was and all she could think of was the morning, that it must have been around 8 a.m. or 8:30 a.m. She settled on 8:30. This statement would qualify as an "A" rating. The more she said this, the more certain she was of the time. After contacting records, we learned that it was indeed in the morning, at 6:17 a.m.

But they could very well be correct in the time chosen for these three. But then again, who knows . . . .

 

[Cypocryphy]

What I am going to do now is abandon this thread. There are several reasons why. First, it has a very high potential for being derailed at the moment. Second, I can see that it upsets people, for whatever reason. The last thing I wanted to be was a peddler of low self-esteem. Third, there are a significant amount of exceptions that need to be analyzed. For example, Marilyn Monroe's chart bothers me as well as Florence, the Olympian. I have noticed that a good portion of the exceptions repeat certain conditions, so I will no longer apply a superficial analysis but look more in depth at each of these, as well as acquiring as many exceptions as possible. (As an aside, I think I know why the exceptions are exceptions, which might make them exceptions no longer.) The fourth reason is that I have spent more time than I should have on this thread, and other responsibilities have been neglected.

If anything, at least this thread has stimulated some good discussion on the subject, either with the motive to endorse it or to oppose it. Each position has contributed valued discussion and debate.

To those of you who have found yourself distressed by this thread, I apologize. It may have been the effect but it was certainly not the intent.

 

[Cascada]

Okay. I am working on something at the moment, so I'll post the charts later. But I will discuss some of the charts.

Jennifer Lopez's birth time is unknown, so I won't even speculate.

Marylyn Monroe, however, has a AA rating, but her birth time is exactly 9:30. Granted that she could have been born exactly at 9:30, I nonetheless find it suspect and that the time was probably rounded off or an approximation. Sometimes nurse and doctors make a guess after the birth of the child. But if you look at her chart, her Venus is making a trine to the ascendant by sign. And a difference of approximately 25 minutes would allow for a nice square to her ascendant. And, interestingly, it is one of those situations where it is a square coming from Aries to Leo, making it a trine/square

Next, Zeta-Jones' birth time is from memory, but even then, her Venus forms a trine with the ascendant. It has a wide orb, but then again, her time is from memory and might not be accurate.

Liv Tyler's birth time is from memory. But it is within minutes of forming a trine to her chart ruler, which is the Moon. That is minutes.

I'll look at the others later, and I'll try to post these charts so people can see.

Regardless, I appreciate the exceptions that you are finding. This is still very much a theory, so reworking the theory is going to be necessary. And you are definitely helping in that area!

Just out of curiosity, is your birth time from your birth certificate?

I guess. But they can't all be wrong, right ? The ones from memory- I'm guessing if they're wrong, they can't be far off. A lot of parents remember vividly their babies birth details

And yes it is. Birth certificate. Doctors notes. And I still have my little hospital bracelet with my name/weight/time and date of birth written on it

Sorry for the late reply, by the way.

 

[Natureschild]

What is the significance of the Bowl shape formation and their careers as movie stars? Almost every chart you linked on this page has this formation, surely there cannot be a coincidence. Does the shape of the chart also dictate beauty as perceived by others? I am not sure whether to be assured or confused.. my passion in life is Art and I have wanted to be a film actress for most of my life. I am involved in a lot of local productions/films, and most anyone I've ever met would consider me to be beautiful.. my chart does not have the bowl shape though and I have been thinking that my career dreams may be unrealistic. Venus is largely unaspected in my chart, in my 5th house of taurus, conjunct sun and conjunct mercury (trine jupiter)... Any suggestions?! I am the mystic rectangle.

 

[Cascada]

What is the significance of the Bowl shape formation and their careers as movie stars? Almost every chart you linked on this page has this formation, surely there cannot be a coincidence. Does the shape of the chart also dictate beauty as perceived by others? I am not sure whether to be assured or confused.. my passion in life is Art and I have wanted to be a film actress for most of my life. I am involved in a lot of local productions/films, and most anyone I've ever met would consider me to be beautiful.. my chart does not have the bowl shape though and I have been thinking that my career dreams may be unrealistic. Venus is largely unaspected in my chart, in my 5th house of taurus, conjunct sun and conjunct mercury (trine jupiter)... Any suggestions?! I am the mystic rectangle.

How is Venus unaspected in your chart if it is conjunct Sun/Mercury and trine Jupiter? I'd say your Venus was quite strong being in the 5th (link to the arts and performing), especially as it's in its own sign.

 

[Cypocryphy]

I guess. But they can't all be wrong, right ? The ones from memory- I'm guessing if they're wrong, they can't be far off. A lot of parents remember vividly their babies birth details

And yes it is. Birth certificate. Doctors notes. And I still have my little hospital bracelet with my name/weight/time and date of birth written on it

Sorry for the late reply, by the way.

You're right. I do not think that they are all wrong. I think some are wrong but not all. It should be noted that Monroe's ascendant is in the bounds of Venus, so there is that affinity. There are also other factors that render it as being a very strong influence in her chart, the combination of which is evident from her photographs.

I have refined my theory to include some additional factors, which I will withhold at the moment simply because of the disturbing effect this thread as had on some. But these additional factors very well might assist making this theory highly accurate.

As of now, there is only one chart that has me confused. And regarding exceptions, I never said there are no exceptions. That is a misquote. Whether it was intentional or accidental, I will not bother to speculate. But as a greater collection of charts are analyzed, the "exceptions" will be entirely explainable. For example, the chart of Natureschild is explainable, despite its not having the classic significations I mentioned in the beginning of this thread.

And regarding your chart, it would be an excellent chart to practice other astrological concepts! Maybe I can practice predicting your future for you at some point? I only have a handful of charts of people I know who have an accurate birth time, and I have only one in which the birth was witnessed.

 

[Cypocryphy]

What is the significance of the Bowl shape formation and their careers as movie stars? Almost every chart you linked on this page has this formation, surely there cannot be a coincidence. Does the shape of the chart also dictate beauty as perceived by others?

I did not even notice that! Nice observation. That is certainly something to look into. I have no answer for it at the moment.

I am not sure whether to be assured or confused.. my passion in life is Art and I have wanted to be a film actress for most of my life. I am involved in a lot of local productions/films, and most anyone I've ever met would consider me to be beautiful.. my chart does not have the bowl shape though and I have been thinking that my career dreams may be unrealistic. Venus is largely unaspected in my chart, in my 5th house of taurus, conjunct sun and conjunct mercury (trine jupiter)... Any suggestions?! I am the mystic rectangle.

Your Venus does not trine your Jupiter. Regarding your career as an actress, you have a very good situation here. I think you have chosen the right field for yourself, but then again, I suppose it was inevitable given your chart features. For being an actress, you are actually quite emotionally stable, though I would say you have some difficulty expressing your emotions and have gone through periods of depression and/or emotional volatility, especially in regard to relationships. (As an aside, I think you would be the person I would go to in any crisis type situation because of your ability to keep your cool and be focused. You have some remarkable control over your emotions, despite losing the plot a bit at times, which I think is a supreme asset to your acting.) You are someone who really looks for a deep relationship with another person and wants to be cared for as much as you care for the other person. You are a woman who actually really needs to feel needed. Regarding your relationships, I think you can be picky in this regard because you are very romantic. And it will also lead to disappointment. (I hope this describes you.) You look as if you have had some type of long distance relationship? Did someone move away and break your heart?

Speaking of Venus as well, I think you are going to have some issues with your career because of an inability to be in the right place. I don't know if you are in Hollywood but either your career will suffer from not going to where you need to go or your relationship will suffer because you had to leave it behind. I think it is going to be one or the other for you.

I aslo think you will be one of the starving artists types but will marry someone who is going to be of a great financial assistance to you. Your acting will be supported.

 

[Melaike]

How To Recognize Physical Beauty​

Examples​

Although the chart does not acknowledge the aspect, you can see that Anderson's Venus is making a tight sextile to her ascendant, which is within 1º. The sextile is, in my opinion, the most powerful aspect for delivering physical beauty to the native.

-----------------------------------------------------

Aniston's time is from memory, but I believe she was born earlier than the time given. A difference of minutes would put Venus in opposition to her ascendant. She also has Venus as the ruler of her chart, which heightens the probability of being physically beautiful.

Jennifer Aniston and Pamela Anderson has never been considered beautiful in classic sense, Why are they even among your examplars ?

Aniston's chart suits her.Saturn-ASC opposition show up itself on her famous chin.

Some more people to add to the list:

Catherine Deneuve:One of the most symetrically beautiful faces

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Deneuve,_Catherine


She has Venus trine AsC

Monica Bellucci:

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bellucci,_Monica

Asc ruler opposed by Venus.

Ornella Muti:

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Muti,_Ornella

First house Libra Moon trine Venus

 

[Natureschild]

Thank you Cascada for your response, I wasn't even thinking of the 5th house placement. I should have said compared to my other aspects, Venus seems rather unaspected, compared to saturn, midheaven, and a few others where there are 5+ aspects for each planet. Thank you for refreshing this though, I am feeling a lot better about my decision to Act.