How to find your career in a chart

fushiafairy

Well-known member
I don't see any vocational stickies. I have looked for a good solid thread on what to look for as indicators of vocation. Could we start one please. So many of us, me included, ask to have someone look at our charts. We could have a thread with lots of info for people to look at on their own. Ideas to include the midheaven in signs, the ruler of the midheaven in sign and house, the ruler of the midheaven in aspect, etc.
If there is one out there already, could someone direct me to it please?
 

waybread

Well-known member
Re: No vocational stickies?

FF, this isn't a sticky, but basically I would recommend this protocol:

1. Get a good grasp of the person's chart so that you have a sense of what this person is like. Even if s/he has talent in a particular area, if it doesn't meet the individual's core personality needs, s/he won't be happy in it.

2. Get a good sense of the different planet, sign, and house rulerships. What does each of these entities cover? A good desk reference is: Rex E. Bills, The Rulership Book, published by the American Federation of Astrologers. Although it is arguably out-of-date for the IT age, it is still in print and otherwise very comprehensive. Most job titles will be listed here. For example, surgeons, soldiers, and athletes are ruled by Mars. Higher education is a 9th house matter. So is overseas travel.

3. The 10th house and MC indicate career in the sense of a vocation, public image, or even destiny. This is not the "just a job" house: that would be the 6th house. If the person needs to live on the income from the job (and who doesn't) then also look at the 2nd and 8th houses.

3. What planets--if any-- are in the 10th house, and what are their aspects like? These tell you that the career is a particular focus for the individual, and the aspects tell you whether the individual is likely to experience them as stressful or harmonious. For example, if Saturn in the 10th is well aspected, the person probably has administrative ability. If Saturn in the 10th is stressed, the person probably feels frustration and inadequacy in his career. This doesn't mean s/he cannot be successful at it; merely that the career will probably be a stressor.

4. What is the ruler of the sign on the house cusp? If there are two, I would suggest looking at both the traditional and modern ruler. Then what is this planet doing by house and aspects? For example, if someone has the ruler of the 10th in the 5th, there are several options. (1) The career has to be fun for the person and a source of creative expression. (2) The person may not be best suited to a career, because the core meaning of the 5th is leisure-time activities and children. If this is a parent of small children, maybe s/he would be happiest staying at home with them--hopefully with the other parent bringing home the income. Recall that one meaning of the 10th is "public image" so this parent may be well known in the local PTA or scout troop as a super parent, not as a CEO or foreman. (3) The person might be good at a 5th house type of career, such as working in a municipal recreation program, the theatre, a gambling casino, or pre-school.

So for example, we could imagine someone with the sun in Leo in the 11th, with Cancer on the cusp of the MC. The ruler of the 10th house, the moon (in Pisces), is located in the 5th house. This person might make a good teacher because the Leo sun likes to be on-stage unless afflicted--and in a classroom the teacher always has an audience. The 11th house deals with friends and hopes for the future. An organization like a school offers friendships with co-workers and hopes for the students' futures. (We note also, that theatre is a 5th house matter.) Then Cancer and the moon have a parental or even nurturing quality, and this moon is located in the house of children.

4. Do the same thing with the 6th house of work and service, and the 2nd and 8th houses of money (the individual's plus "shared resources.") The 8th would be especially important if somebody was interested in an 8th house career like financial advisor. If the ruler of the 2nd is in the 4th house, for example, perhaps this person would prefer to earn money from home, or perhaps have a career in real estate or in an industry dealing with accommodations such as hotels.

It is kind of a separate topic, but if someone's money house looks stressed (for example, Saturn in the 2nd square Pluto and the ruler of the 2nd,) they really need to develop some personal finance management skills.

5. It is a big help to (a) know what careers are out there, and (b) what the day-to-day work is like. Also, it is hard to tell from a chart unless you are a better astrologer than I am whether someone has been to university or has the financial means to go if it is a younger person. Then some careers require advanced degrees, which might be difficult for an older person with stressed 9th and 2nd houses. Sometimes people are motivated to be spiritual teachers or tarot card readers, but they would usually need some other day-job to pay the rent. It is always OK to ask the person what education and job experience they have to date, and how happy they were with them.

6. There are a few wild cards in the deck. If people have artistic talent, they often want to express it regardless of whether it seems like their dream career to an astrologer. If someone has a "splash" type of chart without a discernable focus, they would probably do best in a job that has a lot of diversity and requires a "jack of all trades." If someone has a big focus on just a few signs and houses, they would probably be most motivated in these areas, even if his MC says something else. Also, squares are stressors, but they indicate areas of life that the individual is forced to develop, and an ambitious person may even select a job that accentuates her squares. People with watery charts might look super at working with prisoners or autistic children, but sometimes they will tell you no--they are so sensitive that their nervous energy would just get overloaded in absorbing these people's energy. If someone has the sun in an intercepted sign, Neptune in the first house squaring the MC, or other indicators of difficulties in developing a clear sense of identity, these people may feel they will never find a fulfilling career.

Some careers are really difficult to see in a natal chart. The Astro-DataBank at www.astro.com is full of actors' charts. There does not seem to be much commonality between them.

7. Let your mind be open to different unusual combinations. If someone has strong 10th, 9th, and 8th houses that are not too airy, he might be good at a career in international trade. For an airy person with this combo, however, they might enjoy working in a university, even as an academic support staff member working in the financial aid (8th house) department or with administrators. A psychologist dealing with clients on a one-on-one basis might be good with Pluto, Mercury, and the moon on her AC/DC axis.

We can also look to the north node of the moon, to see where the individual's growth lies.
 
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Claire19

Well-known member
Re: No vocational stickies?

I agree in the main with what you say. Very well done Waybread as usual.

:happy:
 
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Claire19

Well-known member
Re: No vocational stickies?

It is true that there is no common denominator with careers and the charts are as unique as the people possessing them. Many many aspects point to a career or public life..the 10th always to be involved in some way.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Re: No vocational stickies?

hey, thanks, Claire! I wonder if any traditional astrologers would care to pick up this thread, as their techniques would be different.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
Re: No vocational stickies?

hey, thanks, Claire! I wonder if any traditional astrologers would care to pick up this thread, as their techniques would be different.
Yes, they would!!!!!! What happens if Pluto, Neptune or Uranus are in the 10th or aspecting the MC.or indeed ruling it as Pluto does mine..........would they just ignore them?????? Would my Pluto in the 6th just be ignored which signifies working with estate matters,
large corporations, insurance and seeing someone die at work. Sexual harrassment issues as well.... Secret betrayals by women.. All of which have manifested as a result of Pluto there and in contact with my Moon.

I am very much an outer planet person and couldnt possibly ignore these heavies of the solar system...I could go on and on....
 
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Re: No vocational stickies?

Career options are assessed by MC any planets conjunct, where the ruler of MC is placed, it’s aspects, then 2nd house ‘how you earn your money’ and planets there, ruler of cusp and where it’s placed, then 6th house of ‘type of work you do’ any planets there and how they are aspected.

Researching rulers of houses will help you understand more where I joining the dots so to speak
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/rulersofhousesinhouses.html
http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/astrology/LearningAstrology/housesDerived.htm
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houserulerships.htm

Money & you
http://www.astrotheme.com/files/money_and_you.php
http://www.cafeastrology.com/astrologytopics/astrology_of_money_wealth.html
career significators
http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/significators.html
Professional & Destiny
http://www.astrotheme.com/files/astrology_professional_destiny.php
http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/significators.html

perhaps this thread could be made into a sticky??
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
I don't see any vocational stickies.

You have a good idea. As many times as I've looked in this forum I didn't notice that.

In traditional astrology, we use Mercury, Venus and Mars to determine someone's career or profession. The Midheaven in traditional astrology represents the Native's Dignity, Honor and Preferments.

In modern English, the MC is the Native's ego, status, ability to lead or command, the potential for advancement and promotion, and recognition or awards. So the MC only plays a role in one's career by setting the parameters.

As an example, someone's chart might have a heavy Mars influence, and so we might conclude (along with other factors) that the person is a leader, and then we look to the MC to tell us if this person will be the Chief Executive Officer of a major corporation or merely a low level floor manager at a restaurant or retail store, or perhaps a shop foreperson in an manufacturing facility.

It allows us to distinguish between a teacher, a headmaster and a university professor; between an amateur athlete, an Olympic athlete, a mediocre professional athlete and a professional athlete who receives top pay and many awards; between a street player, a musician in a local band, a studio musician, a mediocre professional musician and a musician who is nationally or world renown and has gold and platinum records/CDs.

After we make a determination for the Significator of Profession, which could be Mercury, Venus or Mars alone, or two of the three together, or even all three could be the Significators of Profession, we look so if we blend that with other Planets who are in aspect with the Significator, and then look to the MC.

One of the things you'll learn is that not everyone was intended to have a career or profession, and you can see that in the chart. What are those people to do? Well, the chart will tell you that too, meaning whether they're "homeless" or drift from menial job to menial job, or they're criminals or "professional students" or they don't have to work because they already have wealth or maybe they're house-wives/house-husbands or something like that.

We direct the MC using Right Ascension by Primary or Converse Motion (clock-wise/counter-clockwise) to see what happens. The aspects made to other Planets and Chart Points tells the story. You might get fired, laid off, promoted, get a new job, get huge raise, receive an award for something you did (and it may or may not be job-related -- it could be a civic award or something as part of social group you belong to).

There's another method popularized by modern astrologer Noel Tyl, called the Midheaven Extension Method, but it requires sound knowledge of traditional astrology concepts, because it is heavily dependent on things like Dispositors, Peregrine Planets, Mutual Reception, Reception, Oriental/Occidental Planets etc. There is no way to use his method without understanding those things. He uses modern concepts like the Aries/Libra Points and Midpoints as well. It also poses some problems for the reincarnation/past-life/karma/soul-mate/alien/channeling/astral body crowd, because if they cannot divorce themselves from that kind of bizarre thinking they'll never interpret the Nodes correctly (and the Nodes are important).

It'll take me a while, but I'll try to post some charts using the traditional methods and maybe try to get into Noel Tyl's method (I think he charges $400 or Euros or whatever).
 

waybread

Well-known member
Really helpful, Bob! Thanks for posting.

Some book notes for modern astrologers:

Noel Tyl's "midheaven extention method" basically uses the MC "accidental house cusp ruler" (lord) in a way that probably goes back to Firmicus Maternus (4th century AD). Also, a lot of Tyl's book on his method talks about the qualities that the individual would need in a vocation, not so much whether she should be "the butcher, the baker, or candlestick maker." The epigraph for his book is "You are what you do." (??!!) His book is: Noel Tyl, 2006, Vocations: The New Midheaven Extension Process, Llewellyn.

My favourite book on using sign rulers to interpret houses is by Dutch astrologer, Karen Hamaker-Zondag, 1994, The House Connection: How to Read the Houses in an Astrological Chart, Samuel Weiser.

A similar book is Alan Oken, 2008, Rulers of the Horoscope: Finding Your Way Through the Labyrinth, Ibis Press. This one is written in a more popularizing, slangy style; which is good or bad depending upon what you are after.

Joanne Wickenburg, 1977, In Search of a Fulfilling Career, Search. A small typescript book. I think I got it through the AFA. She focuses on signs on the career/job house cusps as well as the house locations of their planetary rulers. This book also does not look at specific job titles so much as the qualities one would demand from a career.

Other modern astrology books that might be more or less helpful:

Jamie Binder, 1988, Planets in Work: A Complete Guide to Vocational Astrology ACS Publications. She approaches the topic from the perspective of contemporary career counseling, and then pulls the astrology up behind it. Most of the book is about analysing the individual's work personality. She does list possible actual job titles consistent with an astro-personality type.

Stephanie Jean Clement, Charting Your Career: The Horoscope Reveals Your Life Purpose, Llewellyn. Interestingly, she focuses on the 5th house as revealing the individual's talents and creativity; Saturn as showing the limits to ones success as well as the form and structure of one's career, and Mars as showing one's drive and ambition. Not for traditionalists!

Lois M. Rodden, 1994, Money: How to Find it with Astrology, AFA. Several chapters on work/career, with some use of house cusp rulers.

Noel Tyl, ed. 1992, How to Use Vocational Astrology for Success in the Workplace, Llewellyn. Chapters by Tyl and 7 other astrologers, including 2 chapters for would-be professional astrologers.

For glimpses into traditional interpretations of the career-related houses, see:

Deborah Houlding, 2006, The Houses, Temples in the Sky, rev. ed., The Wessex Astrologer Ltd.

Richard S. Baldwin transl., 1974, Astrologica Gallica, Book 21, The Morinus System of Horoscope Interpretation, American Federation of Astrologers, especially ch. 5. (excerpts available on-line through Google Books)

These books should be available through on-line new and used book sellers.

I hope others will add to this list--it is simply what I pulled off my shelf!
 
Hi. I'm trying to find a website that computes Pars Fortunae for me. Tried Tarot Live, but it only goes to 2009. Don't know much, but I'm trying to figure something personal out, which happened on May 3, 2010.
 

AstroGod

Well-known member
This is confusing, I'm so lost.
1 cancer 22
2 virgo 8
3 libra 13
4 scorpio 9
5 sagittarius 0
6 sagittarius 24
7 capricorn 22
8 pisces 8
9 aries 13
10 taurus 9
11 gemini 0
12 gemini 24

Sun leo 20 - 1
moon pisces 25 - 8
mercury leo 21 - 1
venus leo 6 - 1
mars taurus 9 - 10
jupiter cancer 10 - 12
neptune sagittarius 17 - 5
uranus sagittarius 10 - 5
saturn sagittarius 24 - 6
pluto libra 20 - 3
chiron cancer 1 - 12
ceres leo 11 - 1
pallas cancer 11 - 12
juno 25 libra - 3
vesta taurus 8 - 10
north node capricorn 12 - 6
south node cancer 12 - 12
lilith libra 19 - 3
fortune sagittarius 18 - 5

Am I close when I say my career might involve self-employment? Martial Arts? I really need to know what my career is cause in the mean time Im far too frustrated as to what and where and how I need to start my career.
 
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Claire19

Well-known member
Re: No vocational stickies?

Career options are assessed by MC any planets conjunct, where the ruler of MC is placed, it’s aspects, then 2nd house ‘how you earn your money’ and planets there, ruler of cusp and where it’s placed, then 6th house of ‘type of work you do’ any planets there and how they are aspected.

Researching rulers of houses will help you understand more where I joining the dots so to speak
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/rulersofhousesinhouses.html
http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/astrology/LearningAstrology/housesDerived.htm
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houserulerships.htm

Money & you
http://www.astrotheme.com/files/money_and_you.php
http://www.cafeastrology.com/astrologytopics/astrology_of_money_wealth.html
career significators
http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/significators.html
Professional & Destiny
http://www.astrotheme.com/files/astrology_professional_destiny.php
http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/significators.html

perhaps this thread could be made into a sticky??
Right on!!!:happy:
 

Claire19

Well-known member
This is confusing, I'm so lost.
1 cancer 22
2 virgo 8
3 libra 13
4 scorpio 9
5 sagittarius 0
6 sagittarius 24
7 capricorn 22
8 pisces 8
9 aries 13
10 taurus 9
11 gemini 0
12 gemini 24

Sun leo 20 - 1
moon pisces 25 - 8
mercury leo 21 - 1
venus leo 6 - 1
mars taurus 9 - 10
jupiter cancer 10 - 12
neptune sagittarius 17 - 5
uranus sagittarius 10 - 5
saturn sagittarius 24 - 6
pluto libra 20 - 3
chiron cancer 1 - 12
ceres leo 11 - 1
pallas cancer 11 - 12
juno 25 libra - 3
vesta taurus 8 - 10
north node capricorn 12 - 6
south node cancer 12 - 12
lilith libra 19 - 3
fortune sagittarius 18 - 5

Am I close when I say my career might involve self-employment? Martial Arts? I really need to know what my career is cause in the mean time Im far too frustrated as to what and where and how I need to start my career.
Yes please post a visual chart, these numbers and data very confusing and tedious. We need to see what aspects you have to the 2nd, 6th and 10th houses and their rulers etc.
 
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