How does the Sun in Fall "color" the chart?

greybeard

Well-known member
The fact remains, despite enlisting criminals, or finding blemishes, that Not All, nor even a respectable group of Aquarius or Libra Sun people fit the portrayals given.

If the description does not fit reality, I think the defect lies in the description.

I'm sure you, above all people, must have read Valens on Aquarius. Do you find his characterization of that sign reaistic?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
The fact remains, despite enlisting criminals, or finding blemishes, that Not All, nor even a respectable group of Aquarius or Libra Sun people fit the portrayals given.

If the description does not fit reality, I think the defect lies in the description.

I'm sure you, above all people, must have read Valens on Aquarius. Do you find his characterization of that sign realistic?
Of the seven billion inhabitants of this planet at least half a billion are Aquarians and another half a billion are Librans - in terms of 'being realistic' regarding the delineation of sufficient charts of 'even a respectable group' - then weigh those billion or so people against the eight or so examples shown on this thread :smile:
 

greybeard

Well-known member
That is specious reasoning.
Weigh any two signs against the other billions and you get the same result.
I offered some examples and said "I will leave you to judge."
So judge. And I will leave you.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
That is specious reasoning.
Not necessarily. That's only one person's judgement aka opinion. Not everyone would agree :smile:
Weigh any two signs against the other billions and you get the same result.
Highlighting that you isolated a mere eight natal charts from amongst a potential half a billion and/or one billion natal charts is necessary
I offered some examples and said "I will leave you to judge."
So judge. And I will leave you
.
The examples I posted simply illustrate clearly the ancient astrological principles regarding Detriment and Fall AND show that one of the examples you offered i.e. Oprah Winfrey - agrees with those ancient astrological principles regarding Detriment at which you apparently scoff.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
SUN IN FALL EXAMPLES WHO WERE NOT KILLERS/MURDERERS :smile:

Timothy Leary, Libran was the only child of an Irish-American dentist who abandoned his wife Abigail Ferris when Leary was 13. Leary became an American psychologist and writer, known for his advocacy of psychedelic drugs. Leary traveled to Cuernavaca, Mexico with Russo and consumed psilocybin mushrooms for the first time, an experience that drastically altered the course of his life. In 1965, Leary commented that he had "learned more about ... (his) brain and its possibilities ... [and] more about psychology in the five hours after taking these mushrooms than ... in the preceding 15 years of studying and doing research in psychology.


John Sinclair
Libran Poet, after a series of convictions for possession of marijuana, Sinclair was sentenced to 10 years in prison in 1969 after giving two joints to an undercover narcotics officer. He served two years before being released. The landmark "John Sinclair Freedom Rally" occurred at Ann Arbor's Crisler Arena in December 1971. The event attracted John Lennon who recorded the song "John Sinclair" on his Some Time in New York City album



John Lennon
– a Libran, born in war-time England 9 October 1940 - father Alfred Lennon, merchant seaman was away from home sending regular pay cheques until he went absent without leave in February 1944. He returned home six months later offering to look after the family, Julia – his wife, pregnant with another man's child rejected the idea. Her sister, Mimi Smith, complained to Liverpool's Social Services until Julia handed care of Lennon over to her. July 1946 Lennon's father visited Mimi Smith and took his son to Blackpool, secretly intending to emigrate to New Zealand with him. Julia followed them with her partner, 'Bobby' Dykins - after a heated argument his father forced five-year-old Lennon to choose between them. Lennon twice chose his father, but as his mother walked away, Lennon cried and followed her. It was 20 years before he renewed contact with his father. Lennon enjoyed fame as a musician before being murdered at the age of forty.



A SUN IN DETRIMENT EXAMPLE WHO WAS NOT A MURDERER/KILLER



Peter Adamson – Aquarian – Actor suspended from soap opera Coronation Street after selling stories to a tabloid newspaper. Arrested for alleged indecent assault April 1983. Although cleared of charges, he was sacked from Coronation Street. His drinking and reputation meant acting roles became increasingly rare. He developed osteoarthritis, had surgery for bowel cancer in 1990 and was forced to sell his homes as debts increased. Was declared bankrupt 1991with debts of £32,000. Penniless, the press occasionally visited his rented flat in Welton in Lincolnshire, detailing his fall from fame as he was seen shuffling to his local shops in slippers, buying cut-price food to save cash, hoarding away £5 a week towards his funeral. Adamson died from stomach cancer in Lincoln County Hospital in January 2002.
 

m0ney*p0wer*re$pect

Well-known member
Even tho my sun is in Libra, and in the 12th, im not a shy person. I guess b/c my sun isnt badly aspected and its conjunct the asc.

I personally dont have a problem shining a light on myself and its not hard for me to impress people. BUT i have found that when i TRY to impress ppl i usually, if not always, FAIL at it. Its like i pull people to me when i dont try and i get the respect and admiration from others w/o trying. they just never really tell me but ive had some powerful ppl in my town speak good about me and thats really impressive.


So i think it has to do more with the chart and how the sun aspects. My sun opposes jupiter, but thats really its only aspect. The other is a conj, to the asc., sextile uranus and saturn. So you gotta look at that also
 

Andrea_

Well-known member
My Sun isn't in Fall, but it's in the 12th House, at 1 degrees Capricorn, and i can DEFINETLY agree with whoever says that it indicates a timid/modest personality, hiding away fromt he spotlight and rather afraid to shine.

I was extremely timid as a kid, and in touch with less known aspects fo life: i loved drawing, animals, nature, and i was conscious about the existance of psychic powers (in others) or spirits, and i was extremely afraid of thinking about that, although i feel like i am constantly pushed into dealing with this aspect: meeting certain strange people, having premonitions, having the need to study and understand this as the only effective way of completely recovering/healing from a stressful period, etc...

Or at least this si how i consider things to be.

But fortunately it conjuncts Jupiter at almost 28 degrees in saggitarius in the 12th house too (so in it's domicile, accidentally dignified, and sitting right on the galactic centre which i guess it's a good sign?) and i think i can feel it's influence almost always when i face a crisis, emotional, physical, spiritual: after a storm i somehow manage to always find a fountain of hope and positiveness again, and find a direction.

But this is the only aspect that my Sun makes. (maybe if i don't count the three semi-sextiles to Pluto, Moon and Venus)

And yeah, i won't feel the Sun's energies too much, especially as Saturn is one of the most proeminent planets in my chart (along with Uranus and Mars)
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
My Sun isn't in Fall, but it's in the 12th House, at 1 degrees Capricorn, and i can DEFINETLY agree with whoever says that it indicates a timid/modest personality, hiding away fromt he spotlight and rather afraid to shine.

I was extremely timid as a kid, and in touch with less known aspects fo life: i loved drawing, animals, nature, and i was conscious about the existance of psychic powers (in others) or spirits, and i was extremely afraid of thinking about that, although i feel like i am constantly pushed into dealing with this aspect: meeting certain strange people, having premonitions, having the need to study and understand this as the only effective way of completely recovering/healing from a stressful period, etc...

Or at least this si how i consider things to be.

But fortunately it conjuncts Jupiter at almost 28 degrees in saggitarius in the 12th house too (so in it's domicile, accidentally dignified, and sitting right on the galactic centre which i guess it's a good sign?) and i think i can feel it's influence almost always when i face a crisis, emotional, physical, spiritual: after a storm i somehow manage to always find a fountain of hope and positiveness again, and find a direction.

But this is the only aspect that my Sun makes. (maybe if i don't count the three semi-sextiles to Pluto, Moon and Venus)

And yeah, i won't feel the Sun's energies too much, especially as Saturn is one of the most proeminent planets in my chart (along with Uranus and Mars)
Remember as well that your natal Sun's placement in 12th house of your natal chart
has an influence on the matters of the natal house that has Leo on the cusp
:smile:
 

Andrea_

Well-known member
Remember as well that your natal Sun's placement in 12th house of your natal chart
has an influence on the matters of the natal house that has Leo on the cusp
:smile:

Interesting, i've never heard of that before :)
But what does it mean exactly to have Leo on the cusp of a House? Is it the same as having a House in a certain sign(Leo as in our case)? Or you may be referring to the 6th-7th cusp? I mean, i have no House in Leo. I have 2 H. in Gemini and 2 in Sagittarius though, so, going back to the planets, while my Sun is in Capricorn, it still is in the 12th House of Sagittarius...
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Interesting, i've never heard of that before :)
But what does it mean exactly to have Leo on the cusp of a House? Is it the same as having a House in a certain sign(Leo as in our case)? Or you may be referring to the 6th-7th cusp? I mean, i have no House in Leo. I have 2 H. in Gemini and 2 in Sagittarius though, so, going back to the planets, while my Sun is in Capricorn, it still is in the 12th House of Sagittarius...
The 12 houses of a natal chart traditionally have one of each of the 12 signs

The house location of natal planets is entirely dependent on the chosen house system



- not everyone is aware that there are more than thirty different house systems - and fourteen different house systems on offer at astro.com's Extended Chart Selection Page :smile:


There's a brief and interesting article explanation at http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/wholesignhouses.html


'….Placidus system is named after Placidus de Tito - 17th century - where ascending degree starts first house and midheaven degree starts tenth house. Remaining houses are then trisected on a time arc basis rather than space. Problem is, houses distort or intercept in extreme latitudes.

It seems human nature always veers towards the more complex ideas or notions in any field, ignoring the truer and simpler ones. Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable or meant the same thing. A planet in Aries was also a planet in the house of Aries - in effect. there were no real houses as we know them today.....'


'….Artificial divisions now known as houses were attempts by early Greeks and Hindus to measure strength "points" in the horoscope, which at some point in time(7th and 8th centuries AD) were construed or confused as means of dividing the birth chart. Ascendant and Midheaven degrees and their opposites, were definite power points or areas of intense focus, but not necessarily the beginnings of a house or quadrant. In fact, there is no real basis for astrological houses at all. They derive from misunderstanding the true nature of Ascendant and Midheaven factors in astrology, the former representing Earth or terrestial sphere, the latter representing Sky/Heaven/celestial sphere....'


'….The Ascendant is planet Earth, the Midheaven(MC) has as its source, Earth's inner central sun. IC(Imum Coeli) and descendant are merely opposite or reflex points.

If any house system should be used at all, it should be the Whole Sign House system, where the ascendant sign becomes the whole first house and the others follow. The ascendant point can then fall anywhere in the first house and the midheaven point anywhere in the upper half of the chart. The Ascendant and Midheaven, in effect, become PLANETS, which is what they truly are, and because we live on planet Earth, it is the FIRST house or primary habitation....'
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Interesting, i've never heard of that before :)
But what does it mean exactly to have Leo on the cusp of a House? Is it the same as having a House in a certain sign(Leo as in our case)? Or you may be referring to the 6th-7th cusp? I mean, i have no House in Leo. I have 2 H. in Gemini and 2 in Sagittarius though, so, going back to the planets, while my Sun is in Capricorn, it still is in the 12th House of Sagittarius...
Here's a visual illustration :smile:

2008-12-30-astrology1.jpg
 

*emma*

Banned
Surely the adjectives of fall or detriment can only refer to the workings of planet/light per se and in isolation? Which seems to me to be of a bit of a waste of time as we all dont want to be warriors kings eg and we all live with all our placments
:biggrin:



If the Sun is dignified or exalted in leo or aries it just means those are the optimum placements for what the Sun is about, in isolation....

In an ideal world, but who is better at the end of the day.... A selfish ******* aggressive aries sun or a compassionate considerate Libran

The proof of the pudding is in reality....there are thousands and thousands of happy successful missions fulfilled etc people with their suns in libra and aquarius...maybe its time to put some thngs into room 101?


PS ref serial killers, research has been done and the majority are mutable signs NOT Libras or Aquarians


Just saying
 
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