Horary chart - Whole Sign Houses?

Hi I have a question about casting a horary chart - should I use whole sign houses or any other method for delineating the houses

This is very important since may change the position of the moon -

In my case changes from 12th to 11th house - and the response to the question may be completely different
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
My experience is that whole sign house format is the most reliably accurate house system; I converted to whole sign 30 years ago and I would not consider any other house system.
 
I have to say - that to my absolute surprise - I think you are right!

I had a question posed to me ...."what are the odds that I will get into medical school"

I did not think much about the wording of the question - until I cast the chart and found that - using whole sign houses the significator was in fact in the 5th house! House of gambling and odds...applying an exact sextile to the lord of the 10th - the sun - in the 7th house conjuncting the descendant and the true node. Using whole sign houses the moon was in the 12th house making an exact trine to Saturn. The querent was clearly very upset about the possibility of not getting in - feeling sad, isolated and sort of depressed. I think - I am not sure what it means that the only aspect the moon was making was an exact trine to saturn...the lord of the hour (for the question) was jupiter and it conjuncted the significator in the 5th house.

When I cast the chart using default house system for astrodiest - significator is in the 4th - the moon is in the 11th house looking serene in libra. The midheaven changes - and lord of the 10th is now mercury in the 8th house - makes no aspect to the significator.

Not sure what to think - but the interpretation changes completely - I really needed an opinion

I attached the chart if what I said is unclear
 

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Sorry - please note this is a correction to the Whole Sign houses for Horary astrology - correct time
 

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mercuryforward

Active member
I have to say - that to my absolute surprise - I think you are right!

I had a question posed to me ...."what are the odds that I will get into medical school"

I did not think much about the wording of the question - until I cast the chart and found that - using whole sign houses the significator was in fact in the 5th house! House of gambling and odds...applying an exact sextile to the lord of the 10th - the sun - in the 7th house conjuncting the descendant and the true node. Using whole sign houses the moon was in the 12th house making an exact trine to Saturn. The querent was clearly very upset about the possibility of not getting in - feeling sad, isolated and sort of depressed. I think - I am not sure what it means that the only aspect the moon was making was an exact trine to saturn...the lord of the hour (for the question) was jupiter and it conjuncted the significator in the 5th house.

When I cast the chart using default house system for astrodiest - significator is in the 4th - the moon is in the 11th house looking serene in libra. The midheaven changes - and lord of the 10th is now mercury in the 8th house - makes no aspect to the significator.

Not sure what to think - but the interpretation changes completely - I really needed an opinion

I attached the chart if what I said is unclear

Just because the chart doesn’t conform to what you think it should look like doesn’t mean a different house system is required. That’s kind of radical! I mean, with horary you have to be prepared to see something on occasion that you won’t like. It could also be an invalid chart of other reasons. Did you go through the checklist of making sure it is validated?
 

mercuryforward

Active member
Sorry - please note this is a correction to the Whole Sign houses for Horary astrology - correct time
I’m new to this myself so… But it seems to me the aspects are very…sparse.. The aspects, I just learned, are what makes the whole thing move. They are what provides the answer. So don’t be stingy with them!

For example, I see you have a perfect Quincux (prob. misspelled) (150 degrees) between the moon and the sun! That’s hugely important. It means, according to Anthony Lewis, that the querent needs to fix something. Something is “out of joint.” The Moon, ruler of the 9th house of higher education, and the Sun, ruler of the 10th, of status and career, etc. (Sorry, can’t see the chart anymore while I’m responding.)

Anyway, allow more aspects!
 

mercuryforward

Active member
I looked at this chart more closely and have an answer to offer, except for the fact that after re-reading your original post I now think this is actually a personal question. I thought a friend asked you to look at the chart which would have made him the querent of the 7th house, and his question which is a 9th house question (higher education) would have been the 9th from the 7th, meaning in Capricorn. That’s what I based my reading on. But with him being your son I’m not sure if this changes the significators?
 

sinhtheslumberingdragon

Well-known member
Sorry - please note this is a correction to the Whole Sign houses for Horary astrology - correct time
I suggest that your question is actually will I get into medical school.

It looks like you wont there is nothing brining lord 9 to 1

Additionally, using regio - your 9th cusp may be in leo, in which the sun separates from mars- another clear no.
 

mercuryforward

Active member
Am I the only one who determined the querent is Taurus in 7th House? I decided to stay with that because probably he didn’t ask you this question as his dad but as “his astrologer.” But if I’m wrong I’m sure you’ll let me know so we can all learn from this.

So, right away we see the querent’s significator Venus is marooned in the 11th House of hopes and dreams all by herself without any aspects to any other planets or points. Which might mean that he querent has no agency in this scenario.

The 9th House of higher education is what this question is about, and its sign Aquarius is intercepted with the ruler of it, Saturn, trapped in it. According to Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson, a planet in an intercepted sign is an intercepted planet and “means interference and something or someone hemmed-in.”

Meanwhile, the intercepted 3rd house of communication ruler, the Sun, squares this Saturn, AND, even though it doesn’t show this aspect, makes a quincunx with the Moon. This 150 degree aspect means, according to Astrostyle, “parts of your life and nature just don’t add up.”

The only other aspect this cosignificator makes is with the trapped Saturn… And I don’t see the Moon make another aspect before leaving Libra, except a quincunx with Jupiter at 0 degrees but not sure this counts, but even if it did, it’s bad. Jupiter, 10th house ruler AND 8th house ruler, at zero degrees means, again quoting IGJ, “he’s at the end of his rope.”

Which leads me to wonder, is there something else the querent would rather do than go to medical school? But somehow maybe he thinks he can’t, because of something related to the 8th, the house of debts, wills, gifts from others, transformation, as well as the personal unconscious? (Anthony Louis)

I also wondered (when I still hadn’t realized that you are the querent’s dad, so now this is awkward, sorry about that) if applying to medical school is something the father encouraged him to do. We see Mercury in the querent’s first house making a sextile to Jupiter. (That’s the only aspect Mercury makes. Astro-Dienst is nuts, there is no way the orb of Mercury would touch Saturn.) Mercury rules both the second house (resources, values) and the fourth (the father).
Mercury also, by the way, occupies the critical 4th degree in a mutable sign (Gemini). The meaning of this I don’t know. And Venus is also at a critical degree, the 13th, in a cardinal sign (Aries).

So, lots of new questions raised, but the answer about medical school seems to me to be no.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Most horary astrologers prefer Regiomontanus houses, so far as I know. The house cusps on most (not all) quadrant systems are a lot more sensitive than whole signs (or equal houses.)

Knowing the ascendant sign and degree in whole signs can answer a few important questions but not all of them.

But wait a minute here. A rule of astrology is that you can ask a question only once by any system of divination. What is the relationship between this post and your other one, where a parent seems to be asking your quesiton?
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
When in the past I used quadrant system for horary I used alchabitius which seemed to yield good results, until I converted to whole sign. The Arabic developers of horary mostly used alchabitius.
 

Rhys

Well-known member
I first studied horary with Chris Brennan and used whole sign houses. It worked fine.
Then I continued my horary studies with Christopher Warnock, we used Regiomontanus. It also worked fine.

I have found that I can use any house system I want with horary, as long as I decide in advance which house system I am going to use, and stick to it and its logic during the course of the reading.

That being said, these days I use exclusively quadrant house systems for the added symbolism it gives, especially with the 5° rule. But this is a matter of preference. I have seen accurate readings done with both WSH and a wide spectrum of quadrant house systems.

So my answer to claudiasan is that one can use whatever house system one feels comfortable with, as long as you let the universe know in advance which one you are going to use!

(I just realized that this question was posed in May... Oops!)
 
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Rhys

Well-known member
One more thought on which is the "right" house system to use in horary:

While I have found that there is no "right" house system, if you want to be "authentic" to a certain astrological tradition, in that case you would want to be particular about which house system to use.

We have no example horary charts from the Hellenistic period, so we can't say with certainty whether they used WSH or Porphyry. However, if you want to work in a Hellenistic tradition, you would use one of those.

If you are working with the medieval tradition, you would probably want to use Alcabitius semi arc.

If you are working with Renaissance astrology (Lilly, Gadbury), then you would want to use Regiomontanus.

If you practice twentieth century astrology (psychological, evolutionary, etc), you'll probably feel most comfortable with Placidus.

To understand how these houses are calculated and what the differences are between them, I made a series of videos on the subject, I'll post the link here.
 
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