Horary and Sabians, USA Constitutional Default?

piercethevale

Well-known member
Greetings.
In a converstion with and old high school chum on facebook about a political cartoon He had posted that depicts the twin towers crashing down afire...in that the difference is the towers are the parchment documents, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

To which I posted this...

"It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt."
Speech of John Philpot Curran, On the Right of Election of Lord Mayor of the City of Dublin, Delivered Before the Lord Lieutenant and Privy Council of Ireland, 1790

...and then, I wrote and posted the following...


''What we need is a restore to default or a rollback option for this nation that removes all actions, laws and bills a leaves the system with only the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and a carefully studied, analyzed and determined number of the other amendments. ...and not a single other action taken by the government until that is accomplished other than defending our borders from attack or it's citizens from deprivation of life, liberty or personal property and possessions."

...my old friend clicked me a 'Like' and so did a couple of friends of his... and then I posted...

"...oh... and fire... gotta have firemen."

..and got clicked three "likes", pretty straight away... and I posted this, rather a fav. of mine, quote from a great American Revolutionary Patriot,

Patrick Henry ~
"Suspicion is a virtue as long as its object is the public good, and as long as it stays within proper bounds. ... Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel."



So, I thought about this the rest of the morning and about, maybe, an hour ago after I had given a friend and neighbor and my roomate Rick, a good dose of political what-for about current party politics, how and why Pres. Eisenhower, Gen. MacArthur and Catholic Monk, and renowned author Thomas Merton, all warned us about the criminalistic military industrial corporate cartel and said to myself; "Why not?" ...thought a bit more and mused; "But is it possible and can it be done?"

Noted the time, it was 3:57:37 p.m. Here's the chart ...

To be blatantly honest ...I about fell out of my chair as for the chart M.C./I.C. ...it is the 7th deg. of Aquarius/Leo... the Nodes of the USA natal chart [the 'Zero Hour' chart, July 4, 1776 Philadelphia, Penn. chart] ...that also happen to be my nodes in reverse, my yogi friend, Suryakant's, Nodes and a couple of Astro-Gals here of the forum that have these degrees as their M.C./I.C. that are quite avid freedom loving Yanks and that have a wonderful grasp of the Sabian Symbology and how the current planetary transits are indicating a need for transformation of so many abstract concepts of spiritual awareness and practice and indications of celestial urging of intrasect involvement, awareness and cohesiveness and interfaith respect and decorum and between all the Faiths, a spirit of mutual empowering growth and spiritual evolution. The imperatively urgent need,... Nay, a Demand!... for co-operative business, economics, corporate sanity and responsibility, and an end to rampant greed and exploitation of the other 98% by the 2% of this planet... Terra ...


...check it out... Anyone with any level of skill in horary, have at it... I will just comment on what I see symbolically myself and anything anyone else points out that could use a symbolic interpretation as well as the traditional.


chart attached: "Why Not? But is it poss...."
 

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piercethevale

Well-known member
Oooooh...!

The chart horizon at Asc. 28* :taurus: 08' is conjunct the USA natal Part of Hyleg, or Pars Hyleg for those that prefer, which is at 28* :taurus: 07'...the mother root of all other Parts, which is for It will be, while all the other Parts only exist at its' behest.
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
...more highnotes...

The Desc. at 28* :scorpio: 08' is conjunct the USA natal Part of Strategy [Asc. + :pluto: - :mars: ] at 28* :scorpio: 10'

It's a Part that I've not studied and it is a trans-Saturnian Part that involves Pluto as the "Trigger" to Mars' "Significator".

As I thought about the Part derived from the opposite formula, for which I've been near all the more preoccupied with trying to figure out... and as for this other Part, I pictured it as the personal point, that is Taurean and the "Person-ality" within a mode of Mars oriented consciousness for that moment and here come Pluto the Planet of death and transformation 'setting off' Mars... that is, "Triggering" a reaction or an inspiration [that maybe calls for action] regarding that 'something' has to undergo transformation or die.

...and I thought about the upcoming Pluto conjunctions with the M.C. of the USA natal chart that are upcoming and realized that it is as like that of the chart I produce and contend is the chart of the Jewish, "Prince of Peace", Yeshu'a/Jesus, where as Pluto is conjunct one of the 'positive poles' of the chart axis... i.e. the Asc. as it is the "Who" and must project to the, "Where-To" {Which, a good deal of the time, I find that "Whom-To" is more appropriate}, that is the Desc. and the M.C., in a chart that is interpreted for spiritual evolution, as the M.C. is the "How" and projects to the I.C., the "Why"... and I realized, just as that as I had written in my book, that I had a very strong inclination to belief that Pluto will make that "Projection" happen.
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
I have another observation ...or two...

The asteroid Parsival, that I just like to include in national and personal charts for 'sheiks and giggles', along with "Eris" , which I don't take serious, astrologically, at all and noticed that Parsival at 14* :virrgo: 13' is conjunct the compliment, that is the reverse formula, [i.e Asc. + :mars: - :pluto: ] to the, aforementioned, and noted Part of Strategy for the USA natal at 14* :virgo: 49'
...while Mars is conj. the USA natal Hermetic Lot of Courage [Asc. + :parsfortunae: - :mars: ] !!! at 26* :virgo: 16'

...all the while the Sun and Lilith {which I deem more appropriately named, Eve or Isha to the Hebrews or Havyavati to those of the Vedic faiths}, are conjunct in the 20th degree of Cancer ...and Osc Lilith at 06* :cancer: 47' {the genuine 'bad girl', as I derive it to be} has just moved beyond a 1* conjunction to the USA natal Jupiter at 05* :cancer: 46' ...which I interpret as the 'sinister cloud of obfuscation' being removed from Jupiters outlook on things around Him.
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
...I forgot to add that the Part derived from Asc. + :mars: - :pluto: is said to be a Part of Preparation and I've seen one or two refs. to it as being a Part of Popularity. I concur with neither but I haven't really given it much study to determine exactly in any way, as to ballpark relevancy, what might be it's influence... but, I did awhile back and still lean towards a notion that it seems to present a profile of one of Blind Rage, Destructive Action or War but as I noted above I did some rethinking about Pluto as a "Trigger" to a "Significance" of Mars awareness and about the transformation or death of something.
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
Another observation ... the Sun at 09* :sagittarius: 58' has just moved off of a one deg. orb of conjunction to the USA natal Part of Noble and Illustrious Acquaintances {that a number of us have determined to our mutual satisfaction that it entails 'Those that you deem as such' and the opposite formula derives "Those that deem you as such'} which on said natal chart is at 08* :sagittarius: 27'

...and the Sun is approaching an exact conj. to the USA natal Part of Radical Change {Asc. + :pluto: - :uranus: } which resides at 10* :sagittarius: 10'
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
I do have to state ...as it is of great significance... that transiting Uranus is conj. my Part of Unusual Events which is also know as the Part of Mis-interpretation... and having given this matter a lot of thought to that, I'm going to walk away from this thread for a week or more , let that settle in a bit and take a rethink and then take another look at this...

it's the responsible thing to do for any astrologer with any any amount of, and regard for their, personal and professional integrity.

...in fact, I believe I should, and will, just stay off the forum all together...
Till then...
ptv
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Hey ptv.

just to be 100 % clear on this, you asked if a governmental default to our constitution was possible?

Well given the context of the question, i see the mc of the chart conjunct usa's south node as extremely favorable.

What you said of mars conjunct the lot of courage is also promising, especially considering that the pof symbolism reads "the courage needed to meet the crises precipitated by social ambition"...

So in that sense, the answer seems a yes... however plausibility doesn't necessarily indicate likeliness.
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
That axis is interesting......

did you see that desc? "An indian squaw pleading to the cheif for the lives of her children... love as a principle of redemption" (interestingly wald lilith on the symbol about the cheif at 1 cap)

Btw i had this dream about the symbol cancer 1 last night that was pretty bizarre... and kinda funny... i will have to email it to you...

anyways i am uncertain whether or not this chart shows anything further than a "possibility"... as in.. what it would take, how it could come about, etc. in theory i would guess that it would....
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
I telephoned Clarisse after posting this thread that day and because of Uranus being conj. my natal Part of "Unusual Events" that is aka the "Part of Misinterpretation" as I thought about the possibility that it just may well be a Part of Misinterpretation. [btw, The Part of Damage is aka the Part of Misunderstanding...but as you know P.V. I think we've got that matter settled. Although you have raised the question, or observation, as why a "Part" can't also be influential as to other precepts and I've thought about it and I believe you are right as the planets represent more than just a singular concept and so do the signs...and as to what sign a "Part" falls in...well... that could be a whole 'nother can'o worms.]
She told me to suspend writing until the 9th or there after [I hate to have to call her again as I should have jotted it all down... she will tape the conversations but I haven't had a cassette player in about 7 years and the tapes I have of our earliest conversations have all pretty much been destroyed by some careless act or another...go figure... almost as if the hand of the Devil got inside my crib a few times since I last got into a full blown row with that s.o.b.] I asked Her if I was seeing things clearly and she said what she was "seeing" was the Sun being eclipsed ...and that was as like the Moon was doing this or was the Moon...I can't recall. and I took that to mean see was seeing me as the Sun... but I never did get that clarified... I just focused on the fact that she went on and mentioned December 9th for what ever reason.
The other thing that we talked about and is the reason I'm writing this post despite her recommendation, is that I mentioned that little asshemroid "Parsifal" being conj. the USA natal Part of Preparation aka Part of Popularity.
I told her the basic manner in which I try to figure all Parts out by in the following manner.
Here I am, just pure consciousness in whatever coloured form derived from whatever sign that is in and at the moment I'm in a Mars mode of thinking, as to all things that are of the realm of Mars, and here comes Pluto bopping along and Mars being unawares, more or less, and Pluto conjuncts the Part and "bang"...Pluto "Triggers" Mars...sets it off. ...
She said..."Oh my. that's violence, rage, war..."
Just like We suspected Phoenix V.

Now, I can't recall if she said the same thing about the opposite formula as I know I brought that up but can't remember if she said it is also some how related to the same precept of anything violent ...and that's why I'm going to have to call Her again and see if I can't get this matter straightened out.

We did talk about... as I mentioned to Her that I fell it is best not to contaminate her faculties with anything that I have preconceived or even what...for example...what a Part has already been 'titled' in those kind of instances.. and she. abit energetically chimed in that I was correct in that assumption as she told me "I don't know anything about astrology, other than what you tell me, but I don't want to know anything about it...that's your gig... it only clouds my perceptions" [of course she does ask me from time to time about what's coming up on her plate, astrologically, and I do explain why I see what I see so as she can fine tune it on her own later on, if she wants to, usually for aspects and conjs. to parts that I'm not 100% sure about my understandings of.]
I told her that it was a Part of Preparation according to some sources and she said something akin to "Yeah, a preparation for war, but more as to assuredly being the definite first step of war" ... as I recall... like war is immediately there-after...

To have ascertained that there is a "Part of War" is a huge, humongous contribution to the practice of Astrology.

[a friend of mine from High School is the originator of that word..."Humongous"... Keshav... disciple of Swami Muktananda... who went by a number of nicknames prior to his becoming a disciple of Muktananda... all of those names being not really nice names ...one of which was "Damnit" as I had a roomate, Courtney, my freshman year in College that got tired of his antics when Keshav had come to visit me and another dude that I knew from H.S. that also went to Sonoma State and was one of three dudes I shared an apt. with that year, off campus... what a ZOO!... "Empirical Ecosphere" we called it. ...as His brother's apt. in Reno ...He went to UN at Reno...another four man show...was called "Group #1, Executive Orifices" ... as there were three of us freshmen and Courtney was the 'odd man out' being a sophomore and had a slight physical deformity as he had been born a 'swayback', the poor soul... and Courtney would exclamate, often enough...when He had, 'Had Enough'... "Damnit H....' " ...as "H....s" is Keshav's real last name... What a ZOO!... but I have digressed here... which I am so fond of doing ...as nobody I presently know what's to hear me tell stories about my past so I take advantage of these opportunities, knowing that anybody can just pass all this 'baggage" by, if they want to.]

We should probably start a thread on this Part of War/Uncontrollable Rage/Violence so as to really 'get it out there' among all us astrologers.
Just think of all the wars it may very well prevent, national, civil and domestic ...or pray that it does...

That's it for me until Clarisse tells me it's okay to come back online here.
When I do, as I do every year, I avoid the topic of my natal chart for Yeshu'a/Jesus as not to spoil everyones' Christmas. It is the time of year that we celebrate the birth of the 'Man from Nazareth', regardless of when our own personal belief might be as to His actual birth date, me included...although I also do a lot of 'Sun rites' on the Winter Solstice.
Interestingly, as what Clarisse told me years ago, just after moving into this apt. in 2007 about my "trip becoming more "Shamanistic" ...and I didn't like that term then...it conjures up a vision of a Path that isn't really one of "Light" to me... not a 'God worshipping' oriented path, I had always felt... but the astrocartography app. at astrodienst ...which I have fond to be pretty 'spot on'... tells me that this part of California is ...well I'm just going to attach a 'screen shot' of the report to this post... if astrodienst has a snit about that...they can contact me, as I would like to have a few words with those folks about some matters of irritation such as their monkeying around with the information that was originally coming up on the chart for Yeshu'a and the chart for the natal of the USA and my getting banned from their forum and I would like to ask them just WHOM DO THEY SERVE? {:devil::innocent:} ... and recently, I was in the nearby store called 'Planet Earth Rising', that employs a number of gals involved in either witchcraft or Wiccan activities ...and, yes, I know the difference between the two...there are those of the one and the other... and one of the 'Good Gals' ...that is Wiccan... commented on me and told me that I am a Shaman...Well, I guess if the suit fits, even f I don't like the cut and colour... but I'm just going to let it hang in my closet ... that is if I can do that... ?:unsure:


"Skyscript, it's not just another astrological forum, it's a prison of the mind." ...nyaaaah...pffffffft!:rightful::wink:


attached: astrodinks {heh, hehehehe... Faccia Tua!} astrocartography report on me
 

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piercethevale

Well-known member
...anyways... Now that I've took my shot at astrodienst...snicker...

...here's the report on the crossing lines of Pluto conj. M.C. & Sun conj. Desc. ...and btw... I cursed my lazy asp for not being thorough, this morning, as there is a box one can 'check' on the report app. for the astrocartography app. itself, it is labeled "show details" It will allow you to pinpoint a position on the map to find out if any line is within range and it also provide the observations as to whether a line of latitude is also sill of affect even though you may be hundreds or even thousands of miles from the actual line or crossing lines... and the same for longitude.
I did this for my present residence and found out something that has got me looking for a spot on the wall nearby on which to relieve some stress by beating my head upon it... just short of a bloody pulp...

[whoops, this isn't what causes me to want to beat my head on the wall, this is what I already know of this area...it's in ref. to the "Shaman", thing.]
Crossing Sun Desc./Pluto M.C.
(from astrodienst)
"The strong energies of Pluto in combination with the Sun generally cause you to question aspects of your life which have become too rigid. You can definitely expect profound changes... {yada, yada, yada}
It is here that you come into contact ... {with yada, yada, yada...} The shadow sides of your psyche come to the surface, often without warning and in a disruptive manner. If you find the courage to face these deeper dimensions... { yada, yada, yada }
In these places you experience - actively or passively - the meaning of power and of forces which are not easily controlled. You live in extremes, and your motto is "all or nothing". That is fine, as long as you are aware of what you are doing and... { yada, yada, yada }
A constructive way to deal with these topics lies in the wisdom of the occult and shamanistic rites for example. Use the power of this influence to explore and transform your personality."

You yada check this astrocartography app. at astrodienst for yourselves...

Do to the 100 word limitation of allowable use of copy of others' writings even though this is for educational use... just so I don't have to get in a sheetstorm here today...as who needs that kind of sheet?... I'll give you all what I discovered about the 'pinpoint' in the following post.
ptv
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
...and the beat goes on...

Here's what I found out about the area I am presently in...where, as some of you know...I did work as a civil servant for a school district and went through a gauntlet of repression, persecution, deceit, one heck of a nasty lawsuit in which the district corrupted my own lawyers to sell me out in a Workers Disability lawsuit which I filed as to the 3 herniated discs I got from working there and also a psychological disability lawsuit, concurrent with the other, for the mental strain of their threats because of my knowledge of employee and management theft, cover ups, assaults etc. ...but, I didn't make out so bad as I did settle for the physical injuries...although it was but a third of the money I would have received had I stuck to my guns and not have listened to my lawyers... may those bastards rot in Hades....

[this is what gives me want for to beat myself up...]
Crossing Saturn Desc./Uranus I.C. at Same Latitude
(from astrodienst)

"{ The usual yada, yada, intro}a tense but also exciting time in this place... {and yada, yada because of :saturn:} upcoming problems can only be solved with patience and persistence. Overall, there is a meeting of the old and new - the combination of conventional and progressive life attitudes. Your desire for change and freedom... {yada, yada, yada, a mother of endurance and perseverance which will require a} reality check.
There can be work-related conflicts in the contact with state institutions and conservative powers. Your desire to experiment and the need for individual self-expression may be both blocked {due to the usual kind of sphincters one runs into in management in civil service jobs} . If projects which have been commenced here are either delayed or fall apart due to the narrow confines of bureaucratic law, you should start thinking about whether you are on the right track. However, rules, plans and intentions which are able to withstand this challenging influence form a solid basis for your future endeavours."

...and ain't that the truth of exactly what I experienced and how it all went down... I yada get my head examined for not having known of this years ago...but then again... astrodienst wasn't even online until the late 1990's, sometime, or was it after the turn of the century... ?

So... that's just the WAY IT IS...AND WAS... {call 1-800-BOO-WAAH}:p:rolleyes::(
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
Hey ptv.

just to be 100 % clear on this, you asked if a governmental default to our constitution was possible?

Well given the context of the question, i see the mc of the chart conjunct usa's south node as extremely favorable.

What you said of mars conjunct the lot of courage is also promising, especially considering that the pof symbolism reads "the courage needed to meet the crises precipitated by social ambition"...

So in that sense, the answer seems a yes... however plausibility doesn't necessarily indicate likeliness.

Whooops, made a lier out of myself again, didn't I?...
but I forgot that I needed to reply to this.

Yes, Phoenix Venus, that's what I asked.
When I told Clarisse of this she heaved a kind of exasperated sigh with a note of concern and maybe regret or worry in the tone... as if she were trying to say but didn't ...

"OH NO, YOU DIDN'T....?!?"

...so, just for the record, and for the NSA, the FBI, the CIA, The USA Inc.... and anyone, or any group, else that needs be concerned...
...well, it was just kind of a rhetorical question... of course it's not going to happen and nobody in their right mind would even suggest such a thing... now would they?:innocent:
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
That's cool, ptv. In the meantime, i have been working on something for a thread and it is all VERY interesting.... i've gathered some REALLY GOOD & convincing stuff so far, but still have a lot more notes to take... who knows, maybe will find some stuff on that part of war.... (already got a hit or two on the reverse part pluto - mars...) idk how much stuff you already knew and/or posted about around the forum, probably some, but.... it is going to be a golden thread, i tell you. ABSOLUTELY golden. :love::joyful::innocent::happy:

until then, love & light :smile:
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
well, in violation of Clarisse's advice...just one LAST TIME...

I just finished writing a reply to Bhakti Yogi, Sevananda Das, on facebook and here's an excerpt:

It's interesting as to your use of the term "wormholes" as I once asked my clairvoyant friend, Clarisse Conner, whom is a "God-send" in the truest meaning of the term, [and there's a long story to that... she works with some "Guides" from above that I suspect are both Angelic and also of the "White Lodge", if you know of those whom that entails? aka "Ascended Masters"] about the asteroids having been a former Planet and if so how do I account for it's influence. She replied, yes it was and is still of influence but I see "wormholes', opening and closing here and then there..." . In other words... there is no accounting to someone like me, I suppose that possibly a very advanced Yogi can. ...And as I brought up the subject of osc. Lilith or it may have been Wlademath's Moon [not the pivot point, Lilith that astrodienst gives on charts] and she described seeing a "wormhole", again.
...and my assumption that the pivot point Lilith being actually mis-labeled and was actually a point of "Eve". i.e. " Havyavati" [if you know about the difference of the two, in Abrahamic lore?] was wrong...Lilith, she said, is like the touch down point of a Tornado.
...and that ain't Eve...I don't think?
Hare Krishna Hare Rama !!!


I think the Pluto - Mars Part is still labeled, more or less, correctly as being a Part of Strategy...but I'm awaiting a reply from Clarisse and I'll let you know of any development via email...

Golden, huh?
Sounds good!
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
I had tried to call Clarisse, right before I posted, post #5, above... uncanny!

I did get ahold of her and we talked...and I got Her view on things at according to my cell phone was at 7:56 p.m. ...but I don't know if that is the beginning time or ending of the call which lasted a little over 7 mins.


...I believe this to be an indication of the affect ...and quite an affect it is... that Lilith does have upon ones' Being.... or something was sure going on...
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Well... lilith was conj jupiter, after all... :)

now just to figure out that wald.....

Hey.. you remember that chart i cast that i emailed you about...? the one about the thread I'm working on...?

Pof was conj your part of catastrophe... funny & fitting considering all that happened for you to figure that part of war thing out... ha ha...
 
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