Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

Hi,

First of all welcome to this forum. I think you facing this problem after long time. You are absolutely correct in the fact that your Saturn is heavily debilitated. However, everyone here has missed the obvious, very easy to spot thing, and that is the saving grace of Jupiter.

Thanks
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
It's interesting to hear about your experiences with Saturn's transits, despite its challenging placement in your natal chart. Traditional astrology emphasizes the importance of considering the entire chart and not just individual planetary placements. Your ability to positively navigate Saturn's transits may be influenced by other factors such as the overall strength of your chart or the mitigating effects of favorable aspects. This is a reminder that astrology offers a broader perspective, and individual planetary placements don't always dictate the entire narrative of one's life. Keep exploring and observing how the interplay of various factors shapes your unique astrological story.
FOR EXAMPLE :)



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socrates

Well-known member
Greetings, Marius.



For clarification, when you say the "attitude" of the planet you are referring to whether or not the effects of the planet will be for the native or turned away from the native?



Yes, this is a classic example in traditional astrology of how a planet can be an accidental malefic if it is Lord (or Lady) of a malefic house.



This to me is a bit of an oversimplication of what we have gotten from Schmidt's studies. I may be misunderstanding, but what you are suggesting here is that if the diurnal planets (Kronos/Saturn and Zeus/Jupiter) are on the same side of the horizon as Helios/Sun they are properly configured with their sect light; the same would be true if Aphrodite/Venus and Ares/Mars are on the same side of the horizon as Selene/Moon?

According to Schmidt, it is the planets that are of the sect of the chart that will work for the native, and the planets that are contrary to the sect of the chart that will be opposed. His analogy is to that of political parties; those in favor and those against.

It would also appear that what you are referencing here is the concept that post-Hellenism (during the time of the Persian astrologers) became known as "hayz" and "halb?"



I am not entirely sure I am following your meaning here. If a planet in sect? Do you mean in sect of the chart, or on the proper side of the horizon with it's sect light?

The only signs in which the domicile lord and exaltation lord are of the same sect are Taurus and Virgo. To clarify what you are stating here, if a planet of the sect of the chart is in his own ruled sign, and is not regarded by Ptolemaic aspect by the exaltation ruler of that sign, the planet tends to help the native? Do you have sources for this? Because it suggests that if, for example, Moon is in Cancer in a night chart and is regarded by Jupiter from the sextile, trine, square, opposition, or conjunction, the Moon will not help the native. This pretty much flies in the face of most traditonal accepted ideology.

Again according to my own limited studies of Hellenistic astrology, I belive that what you are attempting to describe is planetary fitness, which is another way to determine if a planet is fit, or competent to conduct it's business (i.e. competent as stewards of the houses it rules by both domicile and exaltation.)

The first is fitness relative to the horizon. The second is fitness relative to the lights; the third fitness relative to the zodiac, and lastly fitness relative to benefic/malefic modification.

While all of these are necessary to explore, it may be seen in this chart that Saturn, while stationing, is debilitated and retrograde, cadent, and several other things I have already outlined above. Saturn is supported by benefics (though even if he were not retrograde/returning he would never accept anything from Jupiter in Aries, the sign of his fall.)

The key here is that Saturn is cadent. Saturn is slow (retrograde)



ITA, p. 87

Saturn is in his first station (making a phasis and this Saturn will color the native's life, but to determine how we must analyze this Saturn) and superior planets in their first station signify dissolution of purpose and uncertainty and disobedience.





dr. farr, I understand well what you are saying, in that perhaps this Saturn isn't as bad as it seems (I don't necessarily agree, but find that Saturn being cadent could be a reason that the manifestations in the natal show that Saturn doesn't get the chance to be highly disruptive) but the OP's question was specifically why the transits of Saturn weren't completely disagreeable. My point here is that this is because transiting planets are not our natal planets sprung loose and moving around.

It is readily apparent, based on the information we have been provided, that Saturn has been not completely comptent as house ruler over his signs in this native's life. See my 1st post for reference.
Most planets rule a good and bad house. Saturn in sect rules my 8th and 9th. How would that pan out?
 

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socrates

Well-known member
Welcome to the forum, Katie.

Yes, Saturn has no dignity by term using Egyptian terms as most traditional astrologers have chosen to do. Either way, he is dignified by face or decan. So not completely without dignity. You left out cadent.



That aspect is separating. Venus is separating from Saturn at the same time that Saturn, via retrograde motion, is separating from her. This implies an active disregard on their part of a previously established connection. They can still see each other (regard) but they are not seeking to connect.

In your chart, the only planet that is seeking to connect with Saturn is Jupiter, also retrograde.



Saturn rules the 3rd, but he also rules the 4th sign. I am super curious about your relationship with your family, especially siblings and father. Well, you already mentioned your father, and you did say



This is Saturn’s effect in your natal chart. As the ruler of your 3rd and 4th sign (even though not the 4th house) Saturn is completely incompetent. He is partially assisted because he is regarded by benefics ( Moon from Taurus, Venus from Libra and Jupiter from Aries, but Jupiter is in Saturn’s fall and not inclined to be much help for all that he’s chasing Saturn.)





This is a general perception but as you have already learned/demonstrated not an accurate one. Mainly because it is easy to forget that transiting Saturn and natal Saturn are not the same planet. Out of sect Saturn in Leo, retrograde, cadent, in feminine quadrant and bright degree is not the same as In Sect transiting Saturn in Capricorn in pitted degree. That is just an example, but I hope you get the idea.



Is it possible to have a transit that doesn’t do anything? Yes, if Saturn isn’t activated in your chart by profection and/or solar return. How else would it be possible that a Saturn transit to your DSC resulted in something good? If it should be in the 4th sign, which is Aquarius, and which is Saturn’s preferred domicile. As to the Moon? It is going to be really hard for Saturn to harm the Moon in Taurus. Further, we can’t really comment on transits without knowing the rest of what was going on at the time. This is the biggest reason that traditionally transits are like the very last consideration in predicting events in a native’s life.




When you looked at these squares and tied them to your life events, did you consider whether Saturn was making an inferior or superior square? How about reception? Did the squares perfect, and what were the other planets doing at the time?






Ok. But you said




Are you sure? Because it does sound like the dreaded Saturn return had Quite an effect on you. You do have natal Saturn in Leo, right? Just because you made it through the actual moment the transit was exact doesn’t mean the repercussions of it weren’t going to show up. As to losing out to people who were “more fun” where is Venus in your chart? Libra, right? and in the 11th house/12th sign? So Venus is the ruler of your 11th house, which also happens to be Saturn’s exaltation. Saturn is debilitated and cadent, and didn’t we already talk about how Venus is disregarding him? Are you seeing some sort of a thing here? Especially since the 11th house ruler is in the 12th sign of self-undoing? (And other stuff.)



Why? Because you are skipping a couple of steps in traditional methods to understand if transits are going to even have an “effect," amd of so what that effect will be.
Hi
How would you interpret my Asc ruler.mercury sepating from Saturn and applying to jupiter MC plus the fact that both are ruled by Saturn,mercury is in Phasis and Saturn about to be combust.
Most planets rule a good and bad house. Saturn in sect rules my 8th and 9th. How would that pan out?
Thanks
Ps: the picture is misleading. Mercury is not in the MC but 7 degrees before it
 

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socrates

Well-known member
"Planets falling away from the angles do not create events, they react to them" is a concept that is supported (but not using the same words) in Paulus Alexandrianus; the information in the OP's post, seems to show this reactive situation regarding Saturnine matters. In the chart, of course (for me) Saturn is in the 10th house (for domification considerations)-however, considering the MC point itself, Saturn does fall away from the MC, by position and by direction (moving away from 0 MC by retrograde motion)...
Well,I have jupiter in the 9th but on the MC. By wsh. Would it still be regarded as reactive because it is in 9th by sign?

Thanks
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
"Planets falling away from the angles do not create events, they react to them" is a concept that is supported (but not using the same words) in Paulus Alexandrianus; the information in the OP's post, seems to show this reactive situation regarding Saturnine matters. In the chart, of course (for me) Saturn is in the 10th house (for domification considerations)-however, considering the MC point itself, Saturn does fall away from the MC, by position and by direction (moving away from 0 MC by retrograde motion)...
Well,I have jupiter in the 9th but on the MC. By wsh. Would it still be regarded as reactive because it is in 9th by sign?
Thanks
dr. farr hasn't commented for years :)

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