Cosmiccradle
Well-known member
At what moment after conception if any would you say that the soul entered the body, and how would you define that astrologically in the chart?
Entrance of the Soul seen Astrologically
- Thread starter Cosmiccradle
- Start date
Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
Traditionally, the answer is birth. That's when the soul shoots down the planetary spheres and enters the body, thus the soul is imprinted with the energies of the planets, making a person's personality and future.
Cosmiccradle
Well-known member
Depending on the religion, astrology or astrologer used, then entrance of the soul into the body varies. Not wishing to taint or influence the thread I will withhold my opinion until others have had their say. It would be interesting to see the different periods, why and how they find their place in the chart.
It seems to me other astrologers here must have given this moment thought when learning about astrology.
It seems to me other astrologers here must have given this moment thought when learning about astrology.
There is a certain esoteric tradition which talks about three "sealings" of the incarnating human spark into the body of matter: according to this tradition:
+the first sealing occurs at the exact conjunction of Sun + Moon, following conception; this sealing is of the bloodline, genetic "animal" elements forming the framework of the incarnating human spark
+the second sealing occurs at the Sun+Moon conjunction three "moons" later; this sealing is of the "higher" elements of the human spark into the prepared physical (actually physico-etheric) framework established under the first sealing;
+the third and final sealing occurs at the Sun+Moon conjunction three "moons" after the second sealing (ie, this would generally be at around 6 to 7 months after conception); this final sealing is of the "mundane" or ordinary consciousness-qualities of the incarnating individual, "set" between the original physical frame and the later higher elements (higher consciousness qualities)
According to this tradition, at the time of birth (actually at the moment the individual first breathes), the susceptability to cosmic influences set up in the "field" of the individual (by the prior 3 "sealings") determines which of the cosmic influences operative at the first-breath (birth time) will imprint, and how deeply they will imprint, and which cosmic influences will be resisted, and thus have a minimal imprinting impact.
...an interesting concept...
+the first sealing occurs at the exact conjunction of Sun + Moon, following conception; this sealing is of the bloodline, genetic "animal" elements forming the framework of the incarnating human spark
+the second sealing occurs at the Sun+Moon conjunction three "moons" later; this sealing is of the "higher" elements of the human spark into the prepared physical (actually physico-etheric) framework established under the first sealing;
+the third and final sealing occurs at the Sun+Moon conjunction three "moons" after the second sealing (ie, this would generally be at around 6 to 7 months after conception); this final sealing is of the "mundane" or ordinary consciousness-qualities of the incarnating individual, "set" between the original physical frame and the later higher elements (higher consciousness qualities)
According to this tradition, at the time of birth (actually at the moment the individual first breathes), the susceptability to cosmic influences set up in the "field" of the individual (by the prior 3 "sealings") determines which of the cosmic influences operative at the first-breath (birth time) will imprint, and how deeply they will imprint, and which cosmic influences will be resisted, and thus have a minimal imprinting impact.
...an interesting concept...
Cosmiccradle
Well-known member
And a very interesting post, thankyou. I hadn't heard of that yet.
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Some additional considerations connected with the esoteric tradition mentioned above:
+relating to celestial pre-natal influences upon the subtle energy matrix of embryonic cells:
-the 1st sealing imprints the endodermic layer (from which stomach and lungs develop)
-the 2nd sealing imprints the mesodermic layer (from which, for example, the heart develops)
-the 3rd sealing imprints the ectodermic layer (from which, for example, nerve and brain cells develop)
+connecting with the modalities (modulations or "circulation") of subtle elemental qualities:
-the 1st sealing = the fixed modality
-the 2nd sealing = the cardinal modality
-the 3rd sealing = the mutable modality
+relating to the "fixing" or "setting" of subtle elemental qualities:
-the 1st sealing "sets" the Earth element qualities
-the 2nd sealing "sets" the Fire element qualities
-the 3rd sealing "sets" the Water element qualities
-the birth (first breathing) time "sets" the Air element qualities
+relating to celestial pre-natal influences upon the subtle energy matrix of embryonic cells:
-the 1st sealing imprints the endodermic layer (from which stomach and lungs develop)
-the 2nd sealing imprints the mesodermic layer (from which, for example, the heart develops)
-the 3rd sealing imprints the ectodermic layer (from which, for example, nerve and brain cells develop)
+connecting with the modalities (modulations or "circulation") of subtle elemental qualities:
-the 1st sealing = the fixed modality
-the 2nd sealing = the cardinal modality
-the 3rd sealing = the mutable modality
+relating to the "fixing" or "setting" of subtle elemental qualities:
-the 1st sealing "sets" the Earth element qualities
-the 2nd sealing "sets" the Fire element qualities
-the 3rd sealing "sets" the Water element qualities
-the birth (first breathing) time "sets" the Air element qualities
07.Re
Well-known member
I was born three months premature (so perhaps before the third sealing) and have absolutely no water in my chart and 7 air elements...
Cosmiccradle
Well-known member
I was born three months premature (so perhaps before the third sealing) and have absolutely no water in my chart and 7 air elements...
May I have your particulars via a p.m. to use it for a Epoch test? It would be greatly appreciated, and all privacy rules will be adhered to.
Cosmiccradle
Well-known member
I consider you input and thought of great value. Thankyou.
Cosmiccradle
Well-known member
An interesting part of it all is of course, things like there are those that believe we choose our parents, there are those that believe that we move around undecided, there are those that beleive we are given certain parents because we need to learn something. Abortion, and miscarriages also play a roll in some of those believes.
Cosmiccradle
Well-known member
An educated guess, we're looking at ten lunar months here?
All souls come into incarnation in the sign Cancer,which has been recognised down the ages as 'the doorway into life of those who must know death'
The moment that a man becomes aware of his own soul and is endeavouring to control his own 'path in life,' the influence of the planets, per se,definitely weakens and steadily becomes less and less.
Extracts from 'Esoteric Astrology.' by Alice A Bailey (Lucis).
Jerry
The moment that a man becomes aware of his own soul and is endeavouring to control his own 'path in life,' the influence of the planets, per se,definitely weakens and steadily becomes less and less.
Extracts from 'Esoteric Astrology.' by Alice A Bailey (Lucis).
Jerry
Cosmiccradle
Well-known member
Hello Jerry, would you run that by me in relation to the Epoch chart.All souls come into incarnation in the sign Cancer,which has been recognised down the ages as 'the doorway into life of those who must know death'
The moment that a man becomes aware of his own soul and is endeavouring to control his own 'path in life,' the influence of the planets, per se,definitely weakens and steadily becomes less and less.
Extracts from 'Esoteric Astrology.' by Alice A Bailey (Lucis).
Jerry
Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
What Jerry's source is touching on are the Gates of Men and the Gates of the Gods. They're linked with a hellenistic tradition where the souls of children enter the world through the Gate of Men in Cancer and the souls of the dead leave the world through the Gate of the Gods in Capricorn.
Cosmiccradle
Well-known member
Sounds like mythology.
E
eternalautumn
Kai said:
Does this have anything to do with Cancer rising in the Thema Mundi?
Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
Yes. The idea of the souls entering through the Gates of Man in the Presapae cluster of Cancer is why they chose that sign to rise in the Thema Mundi.
Not mythology. Hellenistic philosophy, though it does tie into Hermetic philosophy with the Moon (the ruler of Cancer) being the last sphere the incoming souls pass through before being born and Saturn (the ruler of Capricorn) as the last sphere souls pass on their journey back to heaven after death. You also have to realize that Cancer and Capricorn are the Solstice signs, which have their own special meanings in solar mythology.
In the Vedic tradition, the astrological year begins with the December solstice and ends with the June solstice (tropically, Capricorn and Cancer); Charles Carter came to the conclusion-near the end of his long astrological career-that the "beginnings" (for the astrological indications for the coming year) are shown by the Capricorn solstice (rather than the Aries equinox); the Chinese begin the day in the 11pm-1am time meridian (under their animal zodiac the sign of the sheep-aka as the sign of the goat), and, in certain allocations of the animal zodiac to our zodiac, this time period corresponds with Capricorn. If we consider some possible extrapolations from the esoteric "sealing" tradition I mentioned above**, the 1st sealing-of earth-could be considered the Capricorn solstice, the 2nd sealing (of fire) as the Aries equinox, the 3rd sealing (of water) as the Cancer solstice, and the birthtime /first breath (fixing of air) as the Libra equinox.
In an alchemical modification of the "souls through the Moon and Cancer" model, the actual beginning of the souls journey is from Saturn (ruler of Capricorn), the souls then being "pulled in" by the attracting power of the Sun (pulled through the spheres from Saturn to Jupiter to Mars to Venus to Mercury), but-unless completely pure-the souls cannot be absorbed by the Sun and so "bounce off" the Sun and "fall down" from the Fire of the Sun into the cooling "Water" of the Moon (ruler of Cancer), from which the heavy dross of the souls "impurities" ultimately drag them down to-earth.
As I have mentioned on another thread, the alchemists (and their literature) contain as much if not more regarding astrology than the frank astrological writings of the past-IF one has the eye to see, and the knowledge to understand.
**For those interested, I have posted some related information regarding this esoteric tradition's techniques for erecting a "blood-line karma" chart, under the thread entitled "Family and Group Karma" in the Karmic Astrology section of the "OTHER" Forum.
In an alchemical modification of the "souls through the Moon and Cancer" model, the actual beginning of the souls journey is from Saturn (ruler of Capricorn), the souls then being "pulled in" by the attracting power of the Sun (pulled through the spheres from Saturn to Jupiter to Mars to Venus to Mercury), but-unless completely pure-the souls cannot be absorbed by the Sun and so "bounce off" the Sun and "fall down" from the Fire of the Sun into the cooling "Water" of the Moon (ruler of Cancer), from which the heavy dross of the souls "impurities" ultimately drag them down to-earth.
As I have mentioned on another thread, the alchemists (and their literature) contain as much if not more regarding astrology than the frank astrological writings of the past-IF one has the eye to see, and the knowledge to understand.
**For those interested, I have posted some related information regarding this esoteric tradition's techniques for erecting a "blood-line karma" chart, under the thread entitled "Family and Group Karma" in the Karmic Astrology section of the "OTHER" Forum.
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Cosmiccradle
Well-known member
Yes to the Epoch.Hi CC,
I was interested how you would reply to the extracts by A.Bailey.
'Sounds like mythology '
Thank you for you reply.
When you mention epoch chart,do you mean 'Pre-Natal Epoch' also called the 'Trutine of Hermes'
Jerry
To the rest of your post the following:
I have a reasonable collection of books. There was a time when I collected all material that seemed to be of value that could support me in anyway when it came to astrology or astronomy. However alot of the books that I bought were used as reference material. PVT fell over the fact, wondering how in the world I could have Rhudyars' book and not know about Sabian astrology. Just as I have Baileys' work and not know hers. However, Rhudyars' book for example is great to use in corrections to see what the cusp of the Asc. gives when using this work. One doens't need to deepen their insight to sabian astrology to use the work. Alot of what I've read, I've lost in thought because we take from it what we find important and move on. Intertwine it with what we do use. I was also not aware that Esoterische Astrologie fell under the heading of Hellenistic Astology. People like Bialey, Heindel, are rarely used by me and only when occasion asks for it when it has to do with the soul or planes that are not covered in parts of astrology. Therefor I have their works, but as reference and not as foundation.
Just as I have a bookcase of great British and American authors, does not mean I've read them all. Although I could give you quite a list, and I'm very partial to the romantic poets.
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