# Elevated and pitted degrees

#### Earth Sign

##### Well-known member
Hi,

I'm sorry if somebody has already asked this question, but I want to clarify.

When you say that the planet has to be in the "exact degree," does that mean it would have to be at exactly 18'00" Aries or would 18'01" count? Or anything from 18'00" to 18'59"?

I mean, if it effects the entirety of the degree, that is still an orb, albeit a small one. But if it would have to be on the dot at 18'00" it would mean a extremely low number of people would have one of these. Most people seem to have been counting the entire degree, it just confused me a bit.

Thanks.

#### Rebel Uranian

##### Well-known member
-these elevated or pitted degrees have no orbs (unlike the critical degrees)-the planet must be in the exact degree

-the influence of these degrees extend equally throughout the entire degree: a planet posited at the 59th minute of the degree is influenced by it as much as a planet posited at the 1st minute of the degree

It works throughout the entire degree and it helps a lot on charts where debilitated malefics are afflicting everything.

#### Earth Sign

##### Well-known member
Oh, now how did I miss that? Hah, thanks. I've also heard people talk about how the degrees should be centered with the preceding degree, like, 18 degrees is everything from 17'30" to 18'30", but I guess that's not what this is about.

Thanks for assisting the absent-minded, Rebel.

You're welcome.

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#### dr. farr

##### Well-known member
Right, it is through the entire degree. One thing, though, is the translation of much of the older degree numbers to the numeration we use in our charts today. We use 0 through 29:59; the old numeration was 1 through 30. That means, when translating a degree in an oldtime list, to our current sign numeration, we must subtract from the oldtime list; ie, exatation of Moon at 3 Taurus in the oldtime lists translates to the 2nd degree of Taurus being the exaltatio degree of the Moon in our current sign numeration. We can easily get misled about a degree and its meanings/connections if we do not take this into account, when referencing the oldtime degree lists.

#### dr. farr

##### Well-known member
Understood dr. farr:
what I find interesting on reading your comment is that in the particular instance of Jupiter located at 21ºLibra and Saturn located at 14[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]º[/FONT] Libra, Jupiter in Libra is received in this particular case in Saturn's Exaltation by an Exalted Saturn because Saturn located at 14[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]º[/FONT] Libra is in Exaltation: furthermore, Saturn located at 14[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]º[/FONT] Libra is in the terms of Jupiter and therefore received by Jupiter.

So, the point I make is that Jupiter located at 21ºLibra and Saturn located at 14[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]º[/FONT] Libra are not only in conjunction but also in Mutual Reception by term and Exaltation and this condition benefits Jupiter particularly because Saturn's degree of Exaltation is 21ºLibra

Yes absolutely: in your example Jupiter and Saturn are in mutual reception by way of exaltation.

#### dr. farr

##### Well-known member
Muted/don't count, does that help diminish the potential trouble caused by a planet? (e.g. badly aspect and in a pitted degree, and in fall/detriment)

Yes, I believe this is the correct understanding as to the effect (this is supported by statements of Abu Mashar, Al-Biruni and Ibn Ezra)

#### SoulRebeL

##### Member
So basically, a 5 degree Sun Leo doesn't count as a Sun in Leo??? Do I have no light in my life?

#### Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris

##### Well-known member
My Hellenistic S.R. this year (Aug 25th) has me with a 4 degrees Leo rising, WHICH is right where my natal Uranus is. However, Hellenistic astrology doesn't really recognize Uranus since it's an outter planet.

What do you make of that since Leo 4 degrees is an exalted degree?
Natally it falls in my cadent 6th house.

#### dr. farr

##### Well-known member
A planet in a pit tends to neutralize the planet, making it neither especially benefic nor especially malefic. The pitted Leo Sun would still have a generic (or mixed if you will) solar influence (it will count as Sun in Leo), but will be neither strongly benefic nor strongly disruptive; as Al-Biruni put it, being pitted makes a planet "peaceful", neither "good" nor "bad".

Pits and elevations only apply to planets (and Lots), not to degrees (like the ascending degree) However, if your natal Uranus is in an elevation, then that means Uranus is and always will be especially potent for you, and will lean strongly to being of a more positive nature (since it is in an elevation)

#### cindystubbs

##### Well-known member
The literature says that if the planet ruling the second house is a degree of increasing fortune then the native shall be rich.
My Mercury in the second (14 degrees Capricorn) is in a I.F. degree and my Uranus in the 9th at 5 Leo also!
I want to be a writer. It appears most appealing to me, however the second is ruled by SAturn at 7 degrees Sagittarius.
Now on another list this is pitted, but not on yours. I think yours is correct because Saturn I would not call neutral in my life!
My Sun is pitted at 26 Sag, some call this the Galactic Center.
If the Moon isn't void in Sag, then maybe my Sun is not pitted at this degree.

#### cindystubbs

##### Well-known member
So my daughters Moon in Taurus ar astrdienst is still exalted at 3 degrees

#### byjove

##### Account Closed
I noticed that I have natal Mercury in a pitted degree - in PISCES, no less. Almost regardless of aspects, seeing this in another person, I'd expect dull prospects in related areas.

I say this with humility and an awareness of the things I'm terrible at (!) but friends, family, teachers, professors, strangers and acquaintences have always marked me out as "very intelligent". I was a debating champion throughout school and college at home and abroad...as for communication, my career advisor from college told me just a few weeks ago that 'I'm an excellent communicator, it sets me apart from others and I should always try to take advantage of that in my career'. How the heck? Detriment, fall, pitted and generally doomed but still shining out, as it were? I don't get it. Pitted, never mind detriment, fall and doom should minimise helpful aspects, no?

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#### dr. farr

##### Well-known member
Yes, but:
-Mercury is not the only significator for mind, intellect, etc (Sun and Jupiter rank up with Mercury re to the mind, intellect; note the powerful Solar situation in the natal chart; Jupiter also, up in the 10th whole sign house
-notice that the detrimented Mercury is nonetheless conjunct the MC, trine the ascendant; notice that Mercury is in + aspect to Mars (the martial WILL could benefit the detrimented Mercury)
-notice Mercury is also atmakaraka in the chart-this "confers" special importance upon whatever factor is atmakaraka (according to Jaimini astrology)
...these factors could benefically modify the detrimented Mercury condition, help to "compensate" it, to a certain degree; adding in the potent Solar (and Jovian) factors in the consideration of intellectual abilities, I wouldn't say that your chart shows any likely problems in that area at all!

Note: do NOT overlook the declinations involving Mercury: any Parallel it might have could significantly modify the indications derived from the longitudinal (ecliptic) analysis.

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#### StillOne

##### Well-known member
Dr. Farr, I know you mentioned Lots/Parts being subject to these degree modifications. How about the Nodes? Seems logical they would be, but just making sure...

My NN is 0*58' Capricorn. Not sure then if it's affected by the pitted degree at 1* Cap since it's not fully in degree 1..? From what you have said, I think not.

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#### byjove

##### Account Closed
Thanks for the insight, I had no idea that the Sun and Jupiter should also be considered for intellect. Mercury, by declination only has a contra aspect I believe. Thanks again.

#### dr. farr

##### Well-known member
Dr. Farr, I know you mentioned Lots/Parts being subject to these degree modifications. How about the Nodes? Seems logical they would be, but just making sure...

My NN is 0*58' Capricorn. Not sure then if it's affected by the pitted degree at 1* Cap since it's not fully in degree 1..? From what you have said, I think not.

Yes, Nodes would also be modified.
@ 0Capricorn58 your NN is still in the "0" degree of that sign, and would not be considered as in the pitted Capricorn 1-the planet (Lot or Node) must be in the specific elevated or pitted degree (or bright or dark degree) for the degree effect/modification, to be operative.

#### byjove

##### Account Closed
I just found another post on this that may be informative.

Sextiles are the weakest, and a Sinister sextile from a Cadent House is almost a non-event (in fact from the 12th House it wouldn't even be an aspect).

I don't use Neptune, but to the extent that I would, I consider the Outers to be the Upper Octaves of Mercury, Venus and Mars. I would first look at the condition of Venus. A strong Venus, Direct, Fast in Motion, in an Angular/Succedent House, in her own Dignity would make Neptune strong. I'd want to see if Jupiter received Neptune by Sign, Exaltation, Triplicity, Term or Decan, because any Reception is good, even if it's only simple Reception, and the more Reception the better.

Since Jupiter is the faster Planet, he's the one squaring Neptune and that square will be powerful if Jupiter is Angular or Succedent, and if Jupiter is Dexter, he has the upper hand and would decimate Neptune.

An Almuten can be Peregrine, or Retrograde or Combust (or all three and worse) and you would look at that when judging chart.

You look at it sort of on a "Scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest..." and if the Peregrine Almuten is in the 10th or 5th or 9th or 11th or 1st or 7th that's better than being in the 6th, 8th or 12th.

Also, you have to view everything in the context of region, ethnicity, parentage and socio-economic status. A middling Almuten that isn't very strong but isn't absolutely horrid would indicate "average" and if you were Middle Class, you'd be smack dab in the Middle Middle Class, or if you were Lower Class in the middle of the Lower Class and so on.

If there are indicators of a change in class, you'd go from Lower Class to the middle of the Middle Class, or maybe you go from Upper Class to middle of the Middle Class if the indicators show a loss.

And part of that too, is that you might end up better off, the same or worse off than your parents.

It's confusing. I'd prefer another term myself, but suffice to say that a Planet is Occidental when in the 1st, 2nd, 3r, 7th, 8th or 9th Houses, but it is also Occidental when it rises after the Sun.

You always want Venus and Mars rising after the Sun, ie Occidental, because they are Nocturnal or Feminine Planets. You always want Jupiter and Saturn to be Oriental, rising before the Sun because they are Masculine and Diurnal.

Mercury is a different animal. If the Sun is in Gemini, then you want Mercury Oriental rising before the Sun and in Gemini (a few degrees ahead of the Sun and not Combust), but if Mercury is Occidental, you'd want him behind the Sun in Cancer.

I ignore Uranus and never really found it useful in a Natal Chart.

Those are also called Welled or Deep Degrees, and they're exactly what they sound like, you dug your grave, or you made your bed and have to lie in it, or you dug yourself into a hole and can't get out, or you've trapped yourself in a corner like a cockroach.

In a Natal Chart, Planets in Pitted Degrees struggle a lot. Sometimes struggle is good, it's Nature's way of strengthening.

At other times, struggle gets to be a freaking headache.

If a Planet in a Pitted Degree is strong, it will survive the struggle, if not, then it's going to become tedious, if not downright frustrating.

Jupiter is just one of the significators of wealth. If Jupiter is the Almuten, then to help it, you'd want to see Venus in any aspect with Jupiter, or Mercury or the Sun in sextile or trine with Jupiter. Even Mars in Pisces, Aries, Sagittarius or Leo in sextile or trine with Jupiter would help (especially in a Night Chart because Jupiter rules the Fire Signs at Night).

The Moon conjunct, sextile or trine Jupiter, that would depend a lot on Sign, House and House Type. The Moon represents constant change and fluctuation, just like the song says:

O Fortuna! Velut luna
statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis;
Vita detestabilis
nunc obdurat et tunc curat
ludo mentis aciem,

egestatem, potestatem dissolvit ut glaciem.

Fortune, like the Moon
always changing state,
forever increasing and decreasing.

Hateful life:
Now oppressing then soothing
as it fancies,

Poverty and Power, [the Moon] melts them like ice.

#### serafin5

##### Well-known member
I sure miss seeing Bob Zemco's posts! There was a time that I didnt understand them at all but he inspired me to learn and leave my comfort zone. I've wanted to thank him ever since too.

I hope he is well and I hope one day we are surprised to see more posts from him.

S5

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#### JUPITERASC

##### Well-known member
I sure miss seeing Bob Zemco's posts! There was a time that I didnt understand them at all but he inspired me to learn and leave my comfort zone. I've wanted to thank him ever since too.

I hope he is well and I hope one day we are surprised to see more posts from him.

S5
Bob Zemco's account remains active so that's entirely possible serafin5 - meanwhile we can quote him - I found another comment Bob posted specifically re: Jupiter in a Pitted Degree Interestingly, Bob tells us that 'Pitted Degrees' are also referred to as 'Welled Degrees' and in most of the Latin texts as Deep Degrees
Obviously you've got some of the indicators down. Okay, the answer to that is you always look for confirmation in the Profections and Solar Returns. Confirm, confirm and confirm some more.

And the other thing I mentioned is that Jupiter is in a Pitted Degree. That appears in texts also as Welled Degrees (most of the Latin texts as Deep Degrees).

The meaning of a Planet in a Pitted Degree you can figure out from these old sayings:

1) You've made your bed; now you have to lie in it.
2) You dug your own grave
3) You've painted yourself into a corner and now you're trapped
4) You dug yourself into a hole (a pit) and now you can't get out of the hole

Of the Benefics (Venus and Jupiter), Venus can never be Malefic, but Jupiter can.
I wouldn't say Jupiter is a Malefic here, he's more like an "Infortune." If Jupiter would be Peregrine, then I would say Jupiter is probably a Malefic in this Chart.

One other thing I want to point out is Transits. Transits are totally useless. I have to laugh at all the people who fuss and muss over Transits in the Transit sub-forum.

They waste so much time on nothing, and even that wouldn't be so bad, except they can't even interpret the Transits correctly. As you can see from the Transit Chart, there is absolutely nothing happening very slowly. This Chart has ZERO indicators of Death. There aren't even any aspects except for Transiting Jupiter Retrograde separating from Moon.

That's why we don't use Transits. They're worthless and a total waste of time. Everything you need to know, Marriage, Divorce, Child-Birth, Career, Death of Parents, Death of Siblings, Fame, Fortune, Gain of Wealth, Loss of Wealth, Injury, Illness and Death you can get from Primary Directions.