Easy Aspects from Natal Moon to Inner and/or Outer Planets yet Tumultuous Relationship with Mother?

[uranianplutonian]

As far as I can tell, Zip Dobyns was the originator of the astrological alphabet a.k.a Moon = 4th house = Cancer.

The Astrological Alphabet: Demystifying the Sign = Planet = House Controversy

Zip Dobyns took a meticulous look at birth charts and thought, “Oh, there’s got to be a way to make this all a bit more straightforward?” Thus, she devised the Astrological Alphab…

theastrologyplacemembership.com

Arigato for the link, m420.

I vibe with this. I think how much a house's ~traits influence one's personality, etc., depends on how many planets are in a particular house, and how many aspects they're making to other planets.

 

[uranianplutonian]

I'm going to take a look at a natal chart of someone who I know has a tumultuous relationship with their mother due to them complaining about it a lot.

Her Moon makes easy aspects to Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, and Lilith (technically not a planet, but I'm still putting it in here). The only hard aspect that her Moon makes is to Chiron by conjunction.

Does Moon conjunct Chiron (malefic asteroid) negate the easy aspect the Moon makes to Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, and Lilith? I want to say yes because Chiron is potent, malefic asteroid (in my opinion), however that's likely not the only thing that negates these easy aspects.

Her Moon is peregrine in Virgo, BUT it's in the Tenth House, Capricorn's territory, and the Moon is in detriment in Capricorn.

So, Moon conjunct Chiron, in a house where the original (what's the Astrological term for this again? ) ruler is Capricorn = tumultuous relationship with mother? Maybe. More analysis of natal charts that fit into the category of easy aspects from Moon to inner and/or outer planets yet tumultuous relationship with mother, is needed.

Looking at the Fourth House ruler of this natal chart, the picture becomes more clear. The Fourth House cusp is in Pisces, so the ruler(s) are Jupiter and Neptune.

Jupiter is conjunct Pluto in the First House, and the Ascendant is in Scorpio... Saturn is conjunct the IC in the Fourth House. From what she told me her mother has no boundaries, is invasive, is always in her business, and hinders her growth.

Her Tenth House cusp is in Virgo, so Mercury rules this house. Mercury is in the eleventh house in Libra, square Uranus and Neptune in her second house. I think this shows a bit about her father. He's involved in the community, is eccentric, but in kind of a harmful way – doesn't give the best advice to those he serves from what I've heard. He's upper middle class, possibly upper class. He gaslit the native a lot when she was a child, and as an adult from what I remember her telling me. From what she described, it seems she feels/felt bound to her father due to financial support.

I think the Sun really shows her father though. Her Sun is in Scorpio (matches his profession), conjunct Venus in Scorpio in her twelfth house, square Mars, trine Saturn, quintile Uranus and Neptune, and conjunct her North Node.
Her father was violent with her (Sun square Mars). He wasn't violent with her siblings. Saturn rules the third house cusp, so perhaps this can be seen through the trine the Sun makes to Saturn.
Aquarius is intercepted in her third house. Sun quintile Uranus – siblings get special treatment?
Neptune rules the Fourth House. Sun is quntile Neptune. He was successful at making her appear crazy to her siblings since they gaslit her, from what she told me. The gaslighting not seen by others because it rules the Fourth House, a private house? Sun quintile Neptune could indicate his wealth too.
Mercury (Tenth House ruler) square the Fourth House ruler Neptune – her mother and father didn't get along and are divorced.
The Sun-Venus conjunction in Scorpio in the twelfth house shows what she mentioned to me about her father being creepy. Sun conjunct the North Node could show his traits of narcissism.

Here I see the Fourth House ruler giving a clearer picture of her tumultuous relationship with her mother. Perhaps the easy aspects from the Moon show her allowing her mother to control her life, and allows her mother's invasiveness. A very codependent relationship, from what I observed.

 

[Frisiangal]

Thank you for your reply and insight!

What does a non-existent natural bonding mean (in terms of Black Moon Lilith to Moon)?

I think in a way, they all have a sense of not feeling able to live up to their mother's expectations, perhaps through not getting along with their mothers. I think the feeling of not living up to their mother's expectations could come from their mother's tone, remarks, behaviours, etc., which lead to clashes.

From observation and study over the years the Black Moon Liliths calculations all represent non-physical object points, according to the one used. MEAN Black Moon Lilith in charts has been observed to be particularly relevant from infancy to puberty and the inner experiences felt during it (carried within the inner child). It denotes that which does not exist in a physical outer form, as does a planet. Yet it creates an inner feeling within that can take on a reality of existence of its own; e.g. the force of creative imagination, fantasy (or phanta(m)sy) that can find positve outlets through aspect with a physical planet. Or, in extreme circumstances the hallucination effect of that which isn't physically existent that can haunt or play havoc upon one's life. One could say that it represents to one's inner world that which Saturn is to the outer world. There can be a strong feeling of un-acceptance of one's inherent talents and/or self, including one's own self-denial of that to which it doesn't care to admit .
Simply stated!!

The Moon is strongly related to feeling and caring for/from another, and the natural 'bonding' that is associated with it. When Moon and MEAN Black Lilith are in harsh aspect, that natural ' expression of feeling' is impaired in some way and does not appear to exist; .... the 'non-existent reality' in/for the individual by the inner images BML (inner child) has created. The paradox is that Black Moon Lilith feels and cares so much (as per sign quality), and it is the inner feeling of not 'physically existing' through neglect, abandonment, denial, etc.etc., of one'self that can make Black Moon Lilith 'turn away' from feeling altogether. The 'I don't care about ......' the mirror image of Moon? .... can be the biggest self-denial of all.
Simply stated!

My ½ cent's worth.

 

[Orion]

Concerning the chart you posted: aspects to the moon are easy but......
there is a t-square venus mars, saturn, nodes and chiron. Venus conjunct mars in the 4th house (family).
Parents are Saturn among others. Mother can be symbolized by saturn. I have seen it in my chart numerous times when transits hit. Here we have saturn square mars...lot's of fighting. Rejection - venus square saturn. The nodes can be about more people involved in the conflicts as well like other family members. Chiron opposite saturn....hurt caused by authorities (like parents).

 

[Lin]

I'm new to this thread...and it's very interesting because it "sounds" like there is no real conflict with the mother....and yet the aspects are difficult. So.... without seeing your chart (and you mention we have the chart...but I can't find it...can you direct me?)....it would be almost impossible to speculate.

it would also help to know the birth data of your mom...even without a time.... because the location of her planets on your chart could be an explanation as to why these aspects don't produce enmity.
In short, no matter whose chart you are looking at, understanding the dynamics between a mother and child is complicated....so both charts are important.

Even where there seems to be no difficult aspects...and the person has a hard time being friendly with the mother, it's possible that there is something you aren't noticing...
Each person brings to the relationship some of their own "stuff" ....and there is always an explanation as to why, even after studying the charts, the "answers" don't SEEM to match the chart interpretation.
LIN

 

[uranianplutonian]

From observation and study over the years the Black Moon Liliths calculations all represent non-physical object points, according to the one used. MEAN Black Moon Lilith in charts has been observed to be particularly relevant from infancy to puberty and the inner experiences felt during it (carried within the inner child). It denotes that which does not exist in a physical outer form, as does a planet. Yet it creates an inner feeling within that can take on a reality of existence of its own; e.g. the force of creative imagination, fantasy (or phanta(m)sy) that can find positve outlets through aspect with a physical planet. Or, in extreme circumstances the hallucination effect of that which isn't physically existent that can haunt or play havoc upon one's life. One could say that it represents to one's inner world that which Saturn is to the outer world. There can be a strong feeling of un-acceptance of one's inherent talents and/or self, including one's own self-denial of that to which it doesn't care to admit .
Simply stated!!

The Moon is strongly related to feeling and caring for/from another, and the natural 'bonding' that is associated with it. When Moon and MEAN Black Lilith are in harsh aspect, that natural ' expression of feeling' is impaired in some way and does not appear to exist; .... the 'non-existent reality' in/for the individual by the inner images BML (inner child) has created. The paradox is that Black Moon Lilith feels and cares so much (as per sign quality), and it is the inner feeling of not 'physically existing' through neglect, abandonment, denial, etc.etc., of one'self that can make Black Moon Lilith 'turn away' from feeling altogether. The 'I don't care about ......' the mirror image of Moon? .... can be the biggest self-denial of all.
Simply stated!

My ½ cent's worth.

I appreciate your 1/2 cents! I will look more into Lilith when I review these natal charts again. Thank you.

Concerning the chart you posted: aspects to the moon are easy but......
there is a t-square venus mars, saturn, nodes and chiron. Venus conjunct mars in the 4th house (family).
Parents are Saturn among others. Mother can be symbolized by saturn. I have seen it in my chart numerous times when transits hit. Here we have saturn square mars...lot's of fighting. Rejection - venus square saturn. The nodes can be about more people involved in the conflicts as well like other family members. Chiron opposite saturn....hurt caused by authorities (like parents).

Interesting insight on the Nodes. I will see whether they’re afflicted in any of the natal charts I have on this topic. Thank you for your input. 😊

I'm new to this thread...and it's very interesting because it "sounds" like there is no real conflict with the mother....and yet the aspects are difficult. So.... without seeing your chart (and you mention we have the chart...but I can't find it...can you direct me?)....it would be almost impossible to speculate.

Welcome.

This thread isn’t about my natal chart. My Moon is unaspected. It’s about natal charts I’ve observed of folk who have a plethora of easy Moon aspects, yet have a tumultuous relationship with their mother.
I removed the example natal chart I posted for privacy reasons.

it would also help to know the birth data of your mom...even without a time.... because the location of her planets on your chart could be an explanation as to why these aspects don't produce enmity.
In short, no matter whose chart you are looking at, understanding the dynamics between a mother and child is complicated....so both charts are important.

I don’t have the mother’s natal chart of any of the natives. I’ll have to ask for it next time I see this configuration accompanied by a tumultuous relationship.
For sure, having the mother’s natal chart could give more insight.

Even where there seems to be no difficult aspects...and the person has a hard time being friendly with the mother, it's possible that there is something you aren't noticing...
Each person brings to the relationship some of their own "stuff" ....and there is always an explanation as to why, even after studying the charts, the "answers" don't SEEM to match the chart interpretation.
LIN

You are right about it being possible that something was missed. This thread has shown me some different areas to look at to help solve the ~mystery of these natal charts. 😏

Well… There isn’t always an explanation as to why — this would suggest that we have all of the answers, which we don’t.

Thank you for contributing to the thread. 😌

 

[Lin]

I believe there is always an explanation as to why there would or is a difficult relationship with the "other" person. But it would take seeing BOTH charts to ascertain this information.
Astrologers are map readers...Imagine attempting to "find" a specific place you'd never been... while driving...and not having a map....or if you had never met anyone who had ever gone there...,,,
well, reading the lives of two people would be significantly harder than this example.
LIN

 

[Humanitarian]

I have a harmoniously aspected Moon (sextile Sun + Mars, trine AC + Jupiter + Neptune + Chiron, quintile Pluto, septile Venus) but square the nodal axis and quincunx/inconjunct Uranus. My Moon is in 5H in Libra, and both Moon in Libra and Moon in Leo is peregrine, but I don't have a good relationship with my mother... For me, this is most likely caused by exalted Saturn in 4H (Placidus) and Saturn is balanced in diginities, exalt in Libra but detriment in 4H and Chiron in 22 deg Aqua, so Chiron has a Capricornian-Aquarian nature, so authorities hurt me, include my parents...

 

[Lin]

There are SO many reasons why one child will get along with a mother and another won't. Or there are nice moments between mother and daughter but also points of argument and conflict.

In order to really understand any particular relationship, all data and processes need to be used.

FIRST and foremost...one of the biggest mistakes made is assuming EVERY aspect between any planets, or other bodies you use, and also nodes and angles....ARE EQUAL. THEY ARE NOT. There is a Hierarchy of aspects. So you need to learn THESE before attempting to give a good interpretation of any two people. Some major aspects of outer planets to personal planets can totally sabotage any relationship....regardless of the "nice" or "happy" aspects there are.

Next the SYNASTRY is extremely vital to read correctly.

And then the composite...with the transits of that moment in time of a great conflict....to see if any outer planet (Jupiter thru Pluto) are acting in an incendiary way in these charts.

BUT....and this is really something almost NO ONE does.

If you have a confrontational/negative/distressing/ conflicted or in other way anxiety producing relationship with the mother, it is a really good idea to ....study the transits on that mother's chart at the time of the birth of that child.

Most astrologers totally ignore this very important study ....... if the beginning of the life of the child is "recollected" in the mind of the mother as a time of stress,....i.e.: problems with money, the mother's spouse or partner, other medical conditions or feelings of losing her looks, her personality ....and if she feels she has given UP her life to be a "mommy" when she was not ready...the resentment (often sublimated because of guilt feelings accompanying other feelings she feels she SHOULD have) can build up to a steady dynamic of detachment, or over controlling, or really ANY issues....because as the child grows up and feels the remoteness or impatience or even anger and other forms of abuse, the child, not having ANY clue...will have no idea why the relationship is not successful.
And the child will either be passive or aggressive ....or detached with the mother...depending upon her/his chart.

Questioning the mother in these times....will usually bring denial that anything negative is occurring. Because again, the mother is not always conscious of her own resentments and anger...and EVEN will "redirect" them to some other person or issue.

AND if there is ANOTHER child born after that child....that brings in a whole other load of possibilities.

THAT is why we need to see TWO chart....at least.

LIN