Does making a prophecy changes the outcome?

freeadia

Member
Hi,

This is an interesting question.
First, I like the introduction of quantum mechanics you made. I just read an interesting article https://medium.com/predict/the-doub...quantum-consciousness-connection-ee8384a50e2f
This guy seems to have logical explanation of why when we look at electrons or photons, their wave-quality seems to disappear, or so called collapse of the wave function. He explained nice why the momentum of the particles used (showing by the reflection angle or something like that which slit was the one that the photon/electron under observation passed through) ” to observe” alter the wave function in an unpredictable manner so the interference pattern disappear. The observation procces at that scale influences the experiment (experimental bias).
The unexplained thing is why when electrons or photons are emitted one by one, interference still appear. This is the great mystery, and maybe has to do something with the propeties of space itself.

Back to your question, if prophecies may change the outcome of events.
My first guess would be yes.
My second guess would be, maybe.

Consideration number 1

I would say that symbols, correspondence, complementarity and causality are concept-proccesing lenses that give structure to the world seen through our consciousness.
When we interrogate future, no matter what system we use, I suppose we interrogate the consciousness itself which is not bound to time and space. By interrogation we force it to cristalize in one posibility of time and space and to imprint one moment of the present mind with the reality of a future moment.
First of all, this act of interrogation always has a price. Is like so-called travelling through planes of reality, the conservation of mass and energy.
No matter we talk about the Sphinx, the oracle of Delphi or any other oracle, the price represent a sacrifice of something in present as the future may give something for us in advance.
If we do not consider this dynamic, maybe we get an approximate answer and also we are like thieves of the future which for this reason may deny us the fulfilling.


Consideration number 2

Any voluntary action or intention carries karma or effect. The interrogation is an action. Depending on the entity that give the answer and the entity that receive it, effects may appear relating to the question or in other fields.
I suppose that usual predictions are variable in terms for the purpose to cover more posibilities.
There are two opposite forces in human nature. One who want to be free and one who want to be meant to. Depending on how strong are these forces in one individual (if we suppose they are both present in all humans) then predictions have more or less impact on the individual and also on the probability of prediction to come true. The force behind the will for fate in the individual is the surrender to a greater will. But if there would be a complete surrender, there would be no interrogation. Otherwise, we see how some predictions come true and some don.t.
The request for predestination may show a missing quality of faith, either in yourself or in a higher will.

Conclusion

If you predict weather, you waste your intelligence because there are more precise instruments and mathematical methods to do that. But I get the idea, if the theoretical question influences the outcome of the event. Most of the time not, but the butterfly effect may be caused by a simple question in rare moments. So it is obvious that as a rule, the question, just the question does not interfere with the outcome, but unpredictable exceptions may appear. The answer, the prediction itself, follow the same rule, regarding weather. In personal affairs, when the subject of question is also the agent of the event, interference may appear more frequent, but with unpredictable effects, either favouring or diminishing.
 
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Mohammad690

Well-known member
Hi,

This is an interesting question.
First, I like the introduction of quantum mechanics you made. I just read an interesting article https://medium.com/predict/the-doub...quantum-consciousness-connection-ee8384a50e2f
This guy seems to have logical explanation of why when we look at electrons or photons, their wave-quality seems to disappear, or so called collapse of the wave function. He explained nice why the momentum of the particles used (showing by the reflection angle or something like that which slit was the one that the photon/electron under observation passed through) ” to observe” alter the wave function in an unpredictable manner so the interference pattern disappear. The observation procces at that scale influences the experiment (experimental bias).
The unexplained thing is why when electrons or photons are emitted one by one, interference still appear. This is the great mystery, and maybe has to do something with the propeties of space itself.

Back to your question, if prophecies may change the outcome of events.
My first guess would be yes.
My second guess would be, maybe.

Consideration number 1

I would say that symbols, correspondence, complementarity and causality are concept-proccesing lenses that give structure to the world seen through our consciousness.
When we interrogate future, no matter what system we use, I suppose we interrogate the consciousness itself which is not bound to time and space. By interrogation we force it to cristalize in one posibility of time and space and to imprint one moment of the present mind with the reality of a future moment.
First of all, this act of interrogation always has a price. Is like so-called travelling through planes of reality, the conservation of mass and energy.
No matter we talk about the Sphinx, the oracle of Delphi or any other oracle, the price represent a sacrifice of something in present as the future may give something for us in advance.
If we do not consider this dynamic, maybe we get an approximate answer and also we are like thieves of the future which for this reason may deny us the fulfilling.


Consideration number 2

Any voluntary action or intention carries karma or effect. The interrogation is an action. Depending on the entity that give the answer and the entity that receive it, effects may appear relating to the question or in other fields.
I suppose that usual predictions are variable in terms for the purpose to cover more posibilities.
There are two opposite forces in human nature. One who want to be free and one who want to be meant to. Depending on how strong are these forces in one individual (if we suppose they are both present in all humans) then predictions have more or less impact on the individual and also on the probability of prediction to come true. The force behind the will for fate in the individual is the surrender to a greater will. But if there would be a complete surrender, there would be no interrogation. Otherwise, we see how some predictions come true and some don.t.
The request for predestination may show a missing quality of faith, either in yourself or in a higher will.

Conclusion

If you predict weather, you waste your intelligence because there are more precise instruments and mathematical methods to do that. But I get the idea, if the theoretical question influences the outcome of the event. Most of the time not, but the butterfly effect may be caused by a simple question in rare moments. So it is obvious that as a rule, the question, just the question does not interfere with the outcome, but unpredictable exceptions may appear. The answer, the prediction itself, follow the same rule, regarding weather. In personal affairs, when the subject of question is also the agent of the event, interference may appear more frequent, but with unpredictable effects, either favouring or diminishing.

Very thoughtful and interesting take.

Reading your answer and the link you’ve provided, my thoughts wandered to our own brain waves. Our brains produce electromagnetic waves and if they are strong (or constant) enough, they should affect things constructively or destructively. Yes?

Also, you brought up a good point about karma. A traditional religious view on occult is that it is a sin; i. e. It has bad karma. While I don’t subscribe to that view, but there must be something to it, which is blown out of proportion in my opinion.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Very thoughtful and interesting take.
Reading your answer and the link you’ve provided, my thoughts wandered to our own brain waves. Our brains produce electromagnetic waves and if they are strong (or constant) enough, they should affect things constructively or destructively. Yes?

Also, you brought up a good point about karma.
A traditional religious view on occult is that it is a sin;
i. e. It has bad karma.

the word 'karma' is frequently misunderstood in the western world :smile:

'karma' simply means 'action'
and actions have consequences
actions often/sometimes have unintended consequences
also
we sometimes dislike the consequences of our actions
and so
clearly
'karma' aka 'action' is intrinsically NEITHER 'bad' NOR 'good'

While I don’t subscribe to that view, but there must be something to it,
which is blown out of proportion in my opinion.
a commonsense perspective recognises that actions have consequences
 

Mohammad690

Well-known member
the word 'karma' is frequently misunderstood in the western world :smile:

'karma' simply means 'action'
and actions have consequences
actions often/sometimes have unintended consequences
also
we sometimes dislike the consequences of our actions
and so
clearly
'karma' aka 'action' is intrinsically NEITHER 'bad' NOR 'good'


a commonsense perspective recognises that actions have consequences

I am aware of the meaning of karma and it is obvious that there is no action without reaction. I was talking about the view that doing the occult, such as astrology is a sin.
 

freeadia

Member
Very thoughtful and interesting take.

Reading your answer and the link you’ve provided, my thoughts wandered to our own brain waves. Our brains produce electromagnetic waves and if they are strong (or constant) enough, they should affect things constructively or destructively. Yes?

The electromagnetic waves emitted by the human body are in a very different spectrum of frequency than the frequency of the electrons and photons used in experiments, so, to ”affect things” is merely a wishful thinking. Thinking in analogy, how a person.s words would affect the ultrasounds emmited by a dolphin, even if they stay close to each other (they are both mechanic waves). As the experiments of quantum mechanics were repetead many times, by different researchers with different patterns of electromagnetic waves of their bodies, and they obtained the same result, we can assume that any interaction of this kind would be a secondary event irrelevant for the purpose of the experiment.


Also, you brought up a good point about karma. A traditional religious view on occult is that it is a sin; i. e. It has bad karma. While I don’t subscribe to that view, but there must be something to it, which is blown out of proportion in my opinion.

What quantity and proportion mean in spiritual realms is out of my perception. But in psychic dimension, during personal interpretation of the objective facts that affect self-image, loss of proportion frequently appears and causes a lot of useless sorrow.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
The electromagnetic waves emitted by the human body is in a very different spectrum of frequency than the frequency of the electrons and photons used in experiments, so, to ”affect things” is merely a wishful thinking. Thinking in analogy, how a person.s words would affect the ultrasounds emmited by a dolphin, even if they stay close to each other (they are both mechanic waves). As the experiments of quantum mechanics were repetead many times, by different researchers with different patterns of electromagnetic waves of their bodies, and they obtained the same result, we can assume that any interaction of this kind would be a secondary event irrelevant for the purpose of the experiment.


What quantity and proportion mean in spiritual realms is out of my perception. But in psychic dimension, during personal interpretation of the objective facts that affect self-image, loss of proportion frequently appears and causes a lot of useless sorrow.
The human body emits SOUND :smile:
How Do a Plate, Violin Bow, and Sand Enable Us to See Sound? :smile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D03Q7DkWotg


CYMATICS - Bringing matter to life with SOUND :smile:
full documentary part 1 of 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmsfuj1Rk9c
 

freeadia

Member
The human body emits SOUND :smile:
How Do a Plate, Violin Bow, and Sand Enable Us to See Sound? :smile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D03Q7DkWotg


CYMATICS - Bringing matter to life with SOUND :smile:
full documentary part 1 of 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmsfuj1Rk9c

This is very stimulating for contemplating the idea of how the sound of a waterfall infleunces on a certain distance, everything around, in an unseen way. Same way, cars horns may change the microscopic pattern of the dust upon windshield, glasses, windows.
I have read a little, some time ago, about Cymatics and I stopped in the face of the blunt though that a human body may be a construct realized as an effect of vibrations played on subatomic scale by a capricious orchestra. I was a little terrified about that but having no proof I thought is just anxiety and a dangerous place to look, like an abyss. I have also read somewhere that is a leggend that in Atlantis, the elite tried to reproduce the original sound of creation and that led to disaster. Or this may be just another myth about misuse of knowledge and consequences.
 

freeadia

Member
Analytics does risk this encounter with the abyss in a more frightening way than participation! Yet it’s irresistible. You write very well, incidentally.

The mane of my lion ascendant is glowing for the compliment of the last sentence, thank you! I try to use a better english grammar, I need to improve myself in this matter.
I find that the subject of this topic, if predictions may change the outcome, is very inspired and challenging. It raises so many new questions about how actually predictions work when they do, and why they do not work other times. Especially if we accept a degree of free choice of individuals. If knowledge is power, then is a mistake not to use it for the best purpose. So, any way around, the prediction may cause the change of choices. The paradox comes then, if that future never hapen, where comes the predictions from? Maybe imagination, maybe alternative realities (the postmodernist escapism in my view) or hazard, or mental noise, or heaven knows. Or, using the Occam.s razor, the future cannot ever be precisely known, but the most likely variant to hapen could be approximated with the maximum use of experience, understanding of patterns and tons of intuition.
The image you evoked "participation with abyss" is nurturing for plutonian deep sense of untouchable clarity of non-identity.
 

petosiris

Banned
I've mentioned this before, but Jonah 3 contains a conditional prophecy. If the nations repent and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord, God is not going to fill them with corpses as he promised in Psalm 110, just as he overruled his message to Nineveh (a Gentile city) by his other prophet who also spent 3 days in death.

The holy spirit of God revealed to me that he had fulfilled this prophecy in 70 A.D. Therefore this is not a conditional prophecy as I originally thought.
 

petosiris

Banned
Consider also this - ''only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established''. Now why don't you compare Jonah 1-3, Matthew 2*, 12, 16, Luke 3*, 11, Luke 23:54*, John 2*, 6:4*, 11:55*, 1 Corinthians 15, Josephus and the enemies of Christ all say - https://outreachjudaism.org/yomkippur/ ?

*giving these for chronology
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
'...Does making a prophecy

changes the outcome?....'
The answer is a non-sequitor :smile:
Yes it can,
which is
why
I have such little patience
with traditional astrology,
except
when it is accompanied by
remedies as in Vedic astrology.
The outcome is the outcome, therefore unchangeable
'....prophecy of an outcome..' is not the same as the outcome

i.e.
A million prophets prophecy a million different outcomes
- discuss
 
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