Do you have a conscience?

ptolomy

Well-known member
I've always been interested in conscience especially as it appears to have its own consciousness independent of my consciousness.
G,I,Gurdjieff was of the opinion that not everyone has a conscience.I would consider this to be a massive disadvantage for anyone not to have one as they would lack a spiritual director.So as an experiment I would like to ask you all if you have a conscience and also would be interested in your experiences to do with conscience.
Some thing strange happened to my conscience years ago when instead of it appearing to be an internal quiet voice(for want of a better description) it started to communicate by becoming a tingling sensation on the left side of my head and the internal voice disappeared.
Also another interesting thought came to me recently in a discussion about free will,it occurred that I must have free will otherwise what's the point of conscience?
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
Most people have a conscience. Lacking one is rare and is what's known as sociopathy/psychopathy.

Well I agree,But I think it is an assumption that is unproven, I've said the same myself before now,But I think its not necessarily the case that someone who doesn't have a conscience would be a socio path/psychopath.Its possible that someone who did not have a conscience could have a more advanced consciousness than the usual human being.I theorise this because I believe the reason we have a conscience in the first place is because of our low level of consciousness.Theoretically if we were higher on the scale of consciousness we would not require one as we would be aware of higher spiritual directives without having to be prompted.
What do you think?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I've always been interested in conscience especially as it appears to have its own consciousness independent of my consciousness.
G,I,Gurdjieff was of the opinion that not everyone has a conscience.I would consider this to be a massive disadvantage for anyone not to have one as they would lack a spiritual director.So as an experiment I would like to ask you all if you have a conscience and also would be interested in your experiences to do with conscience.
Some thing strange happened to my conscience years ago when instead of it appearing to be an internal quiet voice(for want of a better description) it started to communicate by becoming a tingling sensation on the left side of my head and the internal voice disappeared.
Also another interesting thought came to me recently in a discussion about free will,it occurred that I must have free will otherwise what's the point of conscience?

there is free will to some extent, however one is bounded by practicalities - for instance I have the freedom to rob a bank but then there are the possible obvious repercussions .... so, is it conscience that advises me to not rob the bank..... or is it simple commonsense? :smile:
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
there is free will to some extent, however one is bounded by practicalities - for instance I have the freedom to rob a bank but then there are the possible obvious repercussions .... so, is it conscience that advises me to not rob the bank..... or is it simple commonsense? :smile:
Or even fear of the repercussions of my actions?.

I think it depends on the level of awareness I have whether I will notice the voice of conscience or other factors will drown it out.
I have always had the opinion that if I continually ignore conscience on a particular subject that it will eventually not bother trying to advise me on that subject.Maybe I am wrong?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Or even fear of the repercussions of my actions?.
I think it depends on the level of awareness I have whether I will notice the voice of conscience or other factors will drown it out.
I have always had the opinion that if I continually ignore conscience on a particular subject that it will eventually not bother trying to advise me on that subject.Maybe I am wrong?

in my opinion, our problems can be traced to ignorance - just not knowing any better (are we saying the same thing though? Or not.) - what do you think? :smile:
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
do you mean by "not knowing any better" that I might be unaware of the significance of conscience if it spoke to me in a critical situation and did not realise its importance?
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
Maybe Anders Behring Breivik has no conscience,Or as his lawyer says"He is insane",Maybe if a person is insane the other 'voices'? drown out the voice of conscience?Or he never had a conscience in the first place?
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
do you mean by "not knowing any better" that I might be unaware of the significance of conscience if it spoke to me in a critical situation and did not realise its importance?

that's a good way of describing the state of mind of someone who acts in certain ways even though their feelings and/or inner voice and/or instinct advises that they would be better advised not to to that particular action :smile:
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
I see conscience as an appeal from a higher level of consciousness,Where is this 'voice' coming from?
I think that its important to realise that conscience does not force you to accept its directive,Any one can ignore it if they please,Sounds like what I would expect from something that had a higher level of consciousness than my own.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I see conscience as an appeal from a higher level of consciousness,Where is this 'voice' coming from?
I think that its important to realise that conscience does not force you to accept its directive,Any one can ignore it if they please,Sounds like what I would expect from something that had a higher level of consciousness than my own.

It has been said that the conscious mind is only the 'tip of the iceburg' ptolomy - there is also the Collective Unconscious - so perhaps the higher level of consciousness is your/our own after all? What is your view on this?:smile:
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
My view is that the collective unconscious is definitely not mine personally whilst I am in this body,But I suspect that it is mine when I am temporarily between lives as I will be more unified with the plan,Maybe I am wrong.
 

Neptune Rising

Well-known member
In my view, we all have a conscious. What is a conscious? That could very much depend on your own perception as to how its described. Jung viewed and described it very differently to Freud, but both generally are describing the same thing.

What would you describe as the conscious?

For me, the conscious what we are aware of, we are 'conscious' of this or that, it is in our everyday wakeful awareness.

The unconscious is something that is beyond or beneath the conscious, wakeful awareness. We are also in connection with the unconscious but are not always able to consciously see this. The seems to be the realm of Neptune.

For example, I was sitting down and gazing across a field recently. At first, all I could see was the green grass dotted with white little flowers. I gazed for a longer time, stilling my mind and then appeared little yellow flowers amongst the white ones. These yellow flowers were not at first in my conscious awareness, but by stilling the mind and taking time, I my perception opened up to the yellow flowers which to that point were there all the time but were not in my conscious awareness.

Another description of conscious may be moral ethics...?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
My view is that the collective unconscious is definitely not mine personally whilst I am in this body,But I suspect that it is mine when I am temporarily between lives as I will be more unified with the plan,Maybe I am wrong.

who can say ptolomy? Maybe you are not wrong.

The collective unconscious is of its very nature a shared experience :smile:
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
I agree we all have consciousness,That is undeniable in my opinion<otherwise i dont exist,But as for the levels of consciousness that i can personally call my own, I find that difficult to answer as you say I am usually unaware of them.

Going a bit off topic here as i was hoping we would talk about 'Conscience' more,but i realise that consciousness is connected to the issue so i wont whinge about it yet :)
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
I just find conscience an extraordinary thing as its not apparently me,I think it suggests so much promise to even a person with the simplest of minds that there is something much higher than us,That its an amazing blessing that transcends almost all boundaries,Its fantastic how it does not impose itself and suggests rather than imposes like the ego.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I agree we all have consciousness,That is undeniable in my opinion<otherwise i dont exist,But as for the levels of consciousness that i can personally call my own, I find that difficult to answer as you say I am usually unaware of them.
Going a bit off topic here as i was hoping we would talk about 'Conscience' more,but i realise that consciousness is connected to the issue so i wont whinge about it yet :)

so then, back on topic ptolomy, are we saying conscience and level of consciousness are interdependent?:smile:
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
so then, back on topic ptolomy, are we saying conscience and level of consciousness are interdependent?:smile:

I think after what I said previously that everyone(maybe rare exceptions) has a conscience irrespective of their level of consciousness.I theorise that someone with a "simple mind" might even be more aware of its voice than a person who has a very 'advanced mind'?
I don't consider a person truly advanced because they have a high IQ or similar such mental ability,As Ruka said psychopaths etc are known for having high IQ's but do things that go against conscience as if they didnt have one.
Whilst people who are considered mentally retarded can be very observant of conscience and in my opinion therefore more connected to higher consciousness positively.
I consider truly advanced to be spiritual.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I think after what I said previously that everyone(maybe rare exceptions) has a conscience irrespective of their level of consciousness.I theorise that someone with a "simple mind" might even be more aware of its voice than a person who has a very 'advanced mind'? I don't consider a person truly advanced because they have a high IQ or similar such mental ability,As Ruka said psychopaths etc are known for having high IQ's but do things that go against conscience as if they didnt have one. Whilst people who are considered mentally retarded can be very observant of conscience and in my opinion therefore more connected to higher consciousness positively. I consider truly advanced to be spiritual.

which raises the question "what is intelligence" ptolomy... but that is not on topic... or is it? In my opinion ptolomy, level of "intelligence" is directly linked with ability to take note of one's conscience i.e take heed of one's instinct/inner voice/feelings before acting :smile:
 
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