Do you guys use placidus or whole sign for natal charts?

The19thLaw

Well-known member
which is more reliable?

Especially if we are trying to figure out themes of a Saturn return.
 

VirgoLife

Well-known member
Yea I wonder that too a lot because sometimes your planets go to the next house. I heard whole signs is more reliable because everything starts at 0, and a lot of professional astrologers use it. My chart doesn't change in whole signs except Pluto. I like using whole signs in Persona charts sometimes. I would use both because some people relate more when the planet goes to the next house. My Pluto is in the 9th house but it goes to the 10th house in whole signs and I definitely relate more to Pluto in the 10th house. :pinched:
 

IleneK

Premium Member
I think you may best make that determination by experimenting with your own chart.
And you can do that by following transits to the cusp of a house in your chart in the house systems of interest.
Good transits to follow and then see if you feel/experience their contact to a house cusp are Mars and Sun. Also progressed Moon.

Some more sensitive folks can follow the transiting Moon. Tr Moon’s contact to house cusps happens every few days so you can get a lot of data by following Tr Moon.

I would add that for me, I always look at the house system of my choice along with whole sign houses..
 
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MoonlightSonata

Well-known member
I've used both. And for a while, I preferred WS because I think I liked the fact that it pushed a stellium into another house. But I think the Placidus placements are more "me" and ring truer whether I like it or not.
 

Bunraku

Well-known member
In my experience, Placidus is useful to determine the accidental strength of the planet. Whole signs can be used topically.
I noticed astrologers who use whole signs tend to use a combination. The math is there...why not use it to your advantage. :kissing:
 

waybread

Well-known member
Usually I would use Placidus. It is very sensitive to timing.

But this is not an asset if the birth time cannot be accurately pinned down. For example, if the birth certificate does not list a time, and Mom says her son was born "around 1:00" which could go 15 or 20 minutes either way (and possibly change the ascendant sign) Placidus can give a fake sense of planets' locations in houses.

Then as Ilene said, just see which system seems like the most accurate representation of your life. Some people respond better to one system or another. For example, Warren Buffet's life history is pretty well known. Placidus doesn't explain it very well, but the whole signs system does.

Astrologer Alice Portman did a lot of research on the British royal family, whose birth times are well known going back centuries. She found their lives were best explained using Regiomontanus.

A big caveat is people born at high latitudes at certain times of year. Quadrant house systems like Placidus look very skewed for people born near the Arctic Circle-- or even sometimes above 55 degrees north. Equal house and whole signs systems at least give you something to work with.

I don't see this is a traditional vs. modern debate, because most of the quadrant house systems were invented before 1700.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I have used whole sign houses for all charts for the past 30+ years and have no doubt whatsoever of the greater accuracy of whole sign over any other house system (based on my experience)
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
which is more reliable?
Especially if we are trying to figure out themes of a Saturn return.
Thought I’d retrieve this old post for those interested in whole sign houses.
good idea :smile:
Actually in whole sign, as in every house format, cusps are very important! ONLY WE WHOLE SIGNERS CONSIDER THE CUSPS NOT AS BORDERS BUT ACCORDING TO THE ORIGINAL MEANING OF THE WORD "CUSP", IE "POINTS"-we call them "sensitive points" and they exist for each and every house in whole sign. WHERE are these "whole sign cusps"??
THE CUSP OF EACH WHOLE SIGN HOUSE IS A PROJECTION INTO THAT SIGN/HOUSE OF THE ASCENDING DEGREE OF THE RISING SIGN: so if say 18 Aries rises as the ascending degree of the first whole sign house, then 18 degrees of each subsequent sign IS THE CUSP OF THAT WHOLE SIGN HOUSE (the "sensitive degree" of each subsequent house)
So, in our example, with 18 Aries the ascendant, the cusp (sensitive point) of the 2nd whole sign house would be 18 Taurus, of the 3rd house 18 Gemini,....or the 7th house 18 Libra....etc etc, until the 12th whole sign house which would be 18 Pisces.

Planets and stars conjoining these whole sign house "cusps" are very important (planets aspecting. them are also important) for the affairs of that house (just as they are in Placidus or other quadrant house formats) For example, in the "Arthur Bremer" thread, in test charts A and B: the 12th house (house of limitation, self-undoing, etc) whole sign cusp is @ 2 Sagittarius, conjoined by the star Achrab (Graffias)-that star is rising and its indications for chart A 12th house are "...riches and preferment ATTENDED BY DANGER, violence, BENEFITS SELDOM LAST..."certainly applicable to the situation of the race car driver who died at 32 years of age in a car crash; in chart B, the whole sign 12th house "cusp" falls @ 22 Sagittarius, conjoined by the star Rasalhague, among the indications for this star being "...mental depravity...": although the term is old fashioned and intense, nonetheless one could apply it to the extreme mental retardation (12th house of restrictions and limitations) of the native of chart B.

So, yes we do have "cusps" in whole sign-they ARE important for us (we consider them to be generally more accurate than the house cusps of quadrant house format charts) and stars (and planets) connected with them, are potentially important delineative considerations for us...
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Usually I would use Placidus. It is very sensitive to timing.

But this is not an asset if the birth time cannot be accurately pinned down. For example, if the birth certificate does not list a time, and Mom says her son was born "around 1:00" which could go 15 or 20 minutes either way (and possibly change the ascendant sign) Placidus can give a fake sense of planets' locations in houses.

You'd have the same problem with whole sign if the window of possibility for the birth time allows for more than one possible rising sign. When you don't know for sure what the rising sign is, you can't be certain which sign is which house. In some cases, using whole sign would make for an even greater discrepancy than Placidus.

The only time whole sign would be more accurate for an uncertain birth time is when you do know for certain that the birth took place within a window of time when the same sign rose throughout. Then you can be certain of the rising sign even if you don't know what degree the ascendant is at.
 

wan

Well-known member
I use Placidus, because it's what astrolabe uses. I have been using astrolabe for horoscope charts since I started to play with astrology online.


Whole sign seems kinda boring to me, anyway. You can't have planets in one house that are of two different signs.
 
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