Do you believe in God?

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Who looks more trustworthy - the prophets Moses and Isaiah, or
a random 4th century Borborite text that says to worship a creation?
bible-archeology-exodus-tuthmosis-III-mummy-head.jpg





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Opal

Premium Member
Bernard Gui: Inquisitorial Technique

When a heretic is first brought up for examination, he assumes a confident air, as though secure in his innocence. I ask him why he has been brought before me. He replies, smiling and courteous, "Sir, I would be glad to learn the cause from you."

I : You are accused as a heretic, and that you believe and teach otherwise than Holy Church believes.

A.: (Raising his eyes to heaven, with an air of the greatest faith) Lord, thou knowest that I am innocent of this, and that I never held any faith other than that of true Christianity.

I : You call your faith Christian, for you consider ours as false and heretical. But I ask whether you have ever believed as true another faith than that which the Roman Church holds to be true?

A.: I believe the true faith which the Roman Church believes, and which you openly preach to us.

I : Perhaps you have some of your sect at Rome whom you call the Roman Church. I, when I preach, say many things, some of which are common to us both, as that God liveth, and you believe some of what I preach. Nevertheless you may be a heretic in not believing other matters which are to be believed.

A.: I believe all things that a Christian should believe.

I : I know your tricks. What the members of your sect believe you hold to be that which a Christian should believe. But we waste time in this fencing. Say simply, Do you believe in one God the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost?

A.: I believe.

I : Do you believe in Christ born of the Virgin, suffered, risen, and ascended to heaven?

A.: (Briskly) I believe.

I : Do you believe the bread and wine in the mass performed by the priests to be changed into the body and blood of Christ by divine virtue?

A.: Ought I not to believe this?

I : I don't ask if you ought to believe, but if you do believe.

A.: I believe whatever you and other good doctors order me to believe.

I : Those good doctors are the masters of your sect; if I accord with them you believe with me; if not, not.

A.: I willingly believe with you if you teach what is good to me.

I : You consider it good to you if I teach what your other masters teach. Say, then, do you believe the body of our Lord,lesus Christ to be in the altar?

A.: (Promptly) I believe that a body is there, and that all bodies are of our Lord.

I : I ask whether the body there is of the Lord who was born of the Virgin, hung on the cross, arose from the dead, ascended, etc.

A.: And you, sir, do you not believe it?

I : I believe it wholly.

A.: I believe likewise.

I : You believe that I believe it, which is not what I ask, but whether you believe it.

A.: If you wish to interpret all that I say otherwise than simply and plainly, then I don't know what to say. I am a simple and ignorant man. Pray don't catch me in my words.

I : If you are simple, answer simply, without evasions.

A.: Willingly.

I : Will you then swear that you have never learned anything contrary to the faith which we hold to be true?

A.: (Growing pale) If I ought to swear, I will willingly swear.

I : I don't ask whether you ought, but whether you will swear.

A.: If you order me to swear, I will swear.

I : I don't force you to swear, because as you believe oaths to be unlawful, you will transfer the sin to me who forced you; but if you will swear, I will hear it.

A.: Why should I swear if you do not order me to?

I : So that you may remove the suspicion of being a heretic.

A.: Sir, I do not know how unless you teach me.

I : If I had to swear, I would raise my hand and spread my fingers and say, "So help me God, I have never learned heresy or believed what is contrary to the true faith."

Then trembling as if he cannot repeat the form, he will stumble along as though speaking for himself or for another, so that there is not an absolute form of oath and yet he may be thought to have sworn. If the words are there, they are so turned around that he does not swear and yet appears to have sworn. Or he converts the oath into a form of prayer, as "God help me that I am not a heretic or the like"; and when asked whether he had sworn, he will say: "Did you not hear me swear?" [And when further hard pressed he will appeal, saying] "Sir, if I have done amiss in aught, I will willingly bear the penance, only help me to avoid the infamy of which I am accused though malice and without fault of mine." But a vigorous inquisitor must not allow himself to be worked upon in this way, but proceed firmly till he make these people confess their error, or at least publicly abjure heresy, so that if they are subsequently found to have sworn falsely, he can without further hearing, abandon them to the secular arm".
 

Opal

Premium Member
Pistis Sophia
translated by G. S. R. Mead

Index Previous Next
CHAPTER 32

"And Pistis Sophia cried out most exceedingly, she cried to the Light of lights which she had seen from the beginning, in which she had had faith, and uttered this repentance, saying thus:

The first repentance of Sophia."'1. O Light of lights, in whom I have had faith from the beginning, hearken now then, O Light, unto my repentance. Save me, O Light, for evil thoughts have entered into me.

"'2. I gazed, O Light, into the lower parts and saw there a light. thinking: I will go to that region, in order that I may take that light. And I went and found myself in the darkness which is in the chaos below, and I could no more speed thence and go to my region, for I was sore pressed by all the emanations of Self-willed, and the lion-faced power took away my light in me.

"'3. And I cried for help, but my voice hath not reached out of the darkness. And I looked

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unto the height, that the Light, in which I had had faith, might help me.

"'4. And when I looked unto the height, I saw all the rulers of the æons, how in their numbers they looked down on me and rejoiced over me, though I had done them no ill; but they hated me without a cause. And when the emanations of Self-willed saw the rulers of the æons rejoicing over me, they knew that the rulers of the æons would not come to my aid; and those emanations which sore pressed me with violence, took courage, and the light which I had not taken from them, they have taken from me.

"'5. Now, therefore, O Light of Truth, thou knowest that I have done this in my innocence, thinking that the lion-faced light-power belonged to thee; and the sin which I have done is open before thee.

"'6. Suffer me no more to lack, O Lord, for I have had faith in thy light from the beginning; O Lord, O Light of the powers, suffer me no more to lack my light.

"'7. For because of thy inducement and for the sake of thy light am I fallen into this oppression, and shame hath covered me.

"'8. And because of |49. the illusion of thy light, I am become a stranger to my brethren, the invisibles, and to the great emanations of Barbēlō.

"'9. This hath befallen me, O Light, because I have been zealous for thy abode; and the wrath of Self-willed is come upon me--of him who had not hearkened unto thy command to emanate from the emanation of his power--because I was in his æon without performing his mystery.

"'10. And all the rulers of the æons mocked me.

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"'11. And I was in that region, mourning and seeking after the light which I had seen in the height.

"'12. And the guards of the gates of the æons searched for me, and all who remain in their mystery mocked me.

"'13. But I looked up unto the height towards thee and had faith in thee. Now, therefore, O Light of lights, I am sore pressed in the darkness of chaos. If now thou wilt come to save me,--great is thy mercy,--then hear me in truth and save me.

"'14. Save me out of the matter of this darkness, that I may not be submerged therein, that I may be saved from the emanations of god Self-willed which press me sore, and from their evil doings.

"'15. Let not this darkness submerge me, and let not this lion-faced power entirely devour the whole of my power, and |50. let not this chaos shroud my power.

"'16. Hear me, O Light, for thy grace is precious, and look down upon me according to the great mercy of thy Light.

"'17. Turn not thy face from me, for I am exceedingly tormented.

"'18. Haste thee, hearken unto me and save my power.

"'19. Save me because of the rulers who hate me, for thou knowest my sore oppression and my torment and the torment of my power which they have taken from me. They who have set me in all this evil are before thee; deal with them according to thy good pleasure.

"'20. My power looked forth from the midst

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of the chaos and from the midst of the darkness, and I waited for my pair, that he should come and fight for me, and he came not, and I looked that he should come and lend me power, and I found him not.

"'21. And when I sought the light, they gave me darkness; and when I sought my power, they gave me matter.

"'22. Now, therefore, O Light of lights, may the darkness and the matter which the emanations of Self-willed have brought upon me, be unto them for a snare, and may they be ensnared therein, and recompense them and may they be made to stumble and not come into the region of their Self-willed.

"'23. May they remain in the darkness and not behold the light; may they behold the chaos for ever, and let them not look unto the height.

"'24. Bring upon them their revenge, and may thy judgment lay hold upon them.

"'25. Let them not henceforth |51. come into their region to their god Self-willed, and let not his emanations henceforth come into their regions; for their god is impious and self-willed, and he thought that he had done this evil of himself, not knowing that, had I not been brought low according to thy command, he would not have had any authority over me.

"'26. But when thou hadst by thy command brought me low, they pursued me the more, and their emanations added pain to my humiliation.

"'27. And they have taken light-power from me and fallen again to pressing me sore, in order to take away all the light in me. Because of this in which they have set me, let them not

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ascend to the thirteenth æon, the region of Righteousness.

"'28. But let them not be reckoned in the lot of those who purify themselves and the light, and let them not be reckoned with those who will quickly repent, that they may quickly receive mysteries in the Light.

"'29. For they have taken my light from me, and my power hath begun to cease in me and I am destitute of my light.

"'30. Now, therefore, O Light, which is in thee and is with me, I sing praises to thy name, O Light, in glory.

"'31. May my song of praise please thee, O Light, as an excellent mystery, which leadeth to the gates of the Light, which they who shall repent will utter, and the light of which will purify them.

"'32. Now, therefore, let |52. all matters rejoice; seek ye all the Light, that the power of the stars which is in you, may live.

"'33. For the Light hath heard the matters, nor will it leave any without having purified them.

"'34. Let the souls and the matters praise the Lord of all æons, and [let] the matters and all that is in them [praise him].

"'35. For God shall save their soul from all matters, and a city shall be prepared in the Light, and all the souls who are saved, will dwell in that city and will inherit it.

"'36. And the soul of them who shall receive mysteries will abide in that region, and they who have received mysteries in its name will abide therein.'"
 

Opal

Premium Member
Petosiris,

The writings on faith, did not originate in The Bible.

Their is ancient writing on faith as well. We all need gnosis, knowledge, faith, we find it where we choose. Each of us make that choice.

I, too can quote many examples from The Gnostics, The Nag Hammadi's.

I am content with my belief's. I hope you are too.

Faith is faith, no matter to who wrote it.

Opal
 

petosiris

Banned
Petosiris,

The writings on faith, did not originate in The Bible.

Their is ancient writing on faith as well. We all need gnosis, knowledge, faith, we find it where we choose. Each of us make that choice.

I, too can quote many examples from The Gnostics, The Nag Hammadi's.

I am content with my belief's. I hope you are too.

Faith is faith, no matter to who wrote it.

Opal

Some object to faith on superfluous grounds, not knowing the fruit that it bears, which is why I quoted this chapter. We can know false prophets by the fruit they bear. Every good tree bears good fruit, and every bad tree bears bad fruit. Therefore by fruits we know them. The Lord does His work through those who love Him and keep his commandments. The followings you cite on the other hand which may or may not deny the Creator have been dead for thousands of years, except maybe with those who hide in secret (whose god is their belly, whose glory is their shame, and whose end is destruction - not ''a Light'' in my opinion). I choose the follow the example of the first, but everyone makes their own choice, yes.
 

Opal

Premium Member
I am not a Roman Catholic fyi.

My Mother was raised Catholic. Excommunicated for marrying a Protestant, who went to church for a while to please her, and then became the Sunday School teacher that taught us arts and crafts. :lol::lol::lol: then he quit going altogether. I was raised Anglican.

I have been in most churches, synagogues, and mosques. My Mother's father was Muslim.

I am unable to adhere to the restrictions of any organized religion. I use a concordance for searching for subjects of interest in The Bible. I would like to have a Concordance for the Nag Hammadi's.

What religion do you prefer?
 

Opal

Premium Member
My Mother was raised Catholic. Excommunicated for marrying a Protestant, who went to church for a while to please her, and then became the Sunday School teacher that taught us arts and crafts. :lol::lol::lol: then he quit going altogether. I was raised Anglican.

I have been in most churches, synagogues, and mosques. My Mother's father was Muslim.

I am unable to adhere to the restrictions of any organized religion. I use a concordance for searching for subjects of interest in The Bible. I would like to have a Concordance for the Nag Hammadi's.

What religion do you prefer?

My Father's father was Cree, hence his dilemma with organized religion. His Mother was Cornish, and did not go to church. Mom's mother was Belgian/Dutch Roman Catholic.

I am Canadian.
 
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Blaze

Account Closed
My Father's father was Cree, hence his dilemma with organized religion. His Mother was Cornish, and did not go to church. Mom's mother was Belgian/Dutch Roman Catholic.

I am Canadian.

The maple syrup Goddess has been good to us mortals. So has our Lord and Savior Tim Horton. Praise the name.
 
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