DNA and our natal charts with ancestry


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The Bronte Sisters:

Charlotte, Emily, Anne

Emily Jane Brontë Wikipedia 30 July 1818 – 19 December 1848)[was an English novelist and poet who is best known for her only novel, Wuthering Heights, now considered a classic of English literature. She also published a book of poetry with her sisters Charlotte and Anne titled Poems by Currer, Ellis and Acton Bell with her own poems finding regard as poetic genius. Emily was the second-youngest of the four surviving Brontë siblings, between the youngest Anne and her brother Branwell. She published under the pen name Ellis Bell.

Their stories immediately attracted attention, although not always the best, for their passion and originality. Jane Eyre, by Charlotte, was the first to know success, while Agnes Grey, then The Tenant of Wildfell Hall by Anne, and Wuthering Heights by Emily were later to be accepted as great works of literature.

I did not know they had Russian heritage - until I saw this article, and realized the kind of life they lived was full of much more drama and sadness then I had realized. So I decided to check their names on Geni and see if I was related to them since they lived in England and died there. As it turned out, they were Russian but lived in England.

I knew they suffered from Tuberculosis and all 3 died very young, but that is all I knew.

I hadn't known what this article pointed out: :crying:

It is a well known and oft-romanticized fact that the Brontë sisters—and the Brontë brother, for that matter—all died young, one after the other, leaving moody, moor-y masterpieces in their wake. Officially, they all suffered from tuberculosis, or complications thereof, and unofficially, they all died of grief for one another, but as I learned in 2021, apparently there was a very real and disturbing factor that contributed to their lifelong illnesses and early deaths: they spent their lives drinking water contaminated by the local graveyard—and possibly the local privies, too.
Perhaps worse then the physical ailments, was their torment of having lost their loved ones at a very early age. A family curse it seemed, so many of them having died.

It turned out, I was not related to them via blood relations but through in law or marriage.....from around the early 1800s in England:



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Charlotte Bronte' wrote Jane Eyre

Born: April 21, 1816
Thornton, near Bradford, West Yorkshire, England, United Kingdom
Died: March 31, 1855 (38)
Haworth, West Yorkshire, England, United Kingdom (Tuberculosis and complications of typhoid)

Although he visited the poor of the parish practically every afternoon, he was considered to be strict and conventional, and in 1847 he carried out a campaign to prevent women from hanging their washing out to dry in the cemetery. Charlotte noted sadly that while he was away on holiday in Ireland many parishioners said that they hoped he would not return. He began to develop closer relations with Charlotte, who by that time had written Jane Eyre, and they conducted a friendly exchange of letters.[2] In December 1848, he conducted the funeral service of Emily Brontë, (Charlotte's younger sister).

Married in 1854
Between 1845 and 1861 Rev Arthur Nicholls was one of Patrick Brontë's curates and was married to his eldest surviving child, Charlotte, for the last nine months of her life. He cared for Patrick Brontë after Charlotte Brontë's death and spent the rest of his life in the shadow of her reputation.[1] He returned to his native Ireland, remarried and left the ministry

During his time of Marriage to Charlotte:
On 13 December 1852 Nicholls asked Charlotte for her hand in marriage. Charlotte's father vehemently refused to approve the union on the grounds that a poor Irish pastor should never be bold enough to suggest marrying his famous daughter.[3] In 1853 Nicholls announced his intention to leave for Australia as a missionary, but he later changed his mind despite collecting references (including one from Patrick Brontë) and a farewell gift from the parishioners. He was re-deployed for several months to another parish, but he had several secret meetings with Charlotte in Haworth.[2] Little by little Charlotte became persuaded by Nicholls, and in February 1854 her father finally gave his permission for the visits. Arthur Nicholls and Charlotte Brontë were married on 29 June 1854 in her father's church at Haworth. Patrick Brontë decided on the day of the ceremony not to attend, so Charlotte was led to the altar by Margaret Wooler, her former schoolmistress at Roe Head School. They honeymooned in Wales and Ireland[4] before returning to live with Charlotte's father at Haworth Parsonage.
Following Charlotte's sudden death, nine months later in 1855, Nicholls became the copyright holder of her works, making him an occasionally defensive and reluctant curator of her memory until the early twentieth century.


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Charlotte Natal Chart: The elder sister


Emily Natal Chart: The younger sister


I don't know if this link will open or not. But it shows the bio of the mother of the Bronte sisters. Her name was Maria, and she died very young too. Probably from the same water she was drinking, and same diseases plus the fact she was bearing all these children, and the immune system was quite low unlike for the father. For Maria, she had at least 5 children before she died. Her 1st daughter she also named Maria April 1814, then Elizabeth Feb. 1815, then Charlotte April, 1816, Patrick, their 1st boy July 1817 who died age 31 like all his sisters - very young! ...note 2 were babies - (that is 5 if you are keeping count of born children) then Emily Jane July 30, 1818; and Anne Bronte, Jan. 17, 1820 who also like the others listed as having died at age 29 of tuberculosis and complications of a cold.

Now we read about the water problems - from the nearby cemetery water.

I hope to go over all their deaths again, double check their home lives - if any married besides Charlotte -

Maria Bronte died at age 31 after having babies, every single year of her marriage from what I can see


I must say, this more then anything is what has depressed me about so many of the women I have studied in the family trees in genealogy over the past few months from the 1700-1800s even into the 1900s. I find this extremely overwhelming to have 10 children in a home. Most of them were not wealthy people. So that means, they did all the home work and care for the children by themselves, usually the mother while if farming, helping the father. It has depressed me to see this in the wills.

And when I see today's politics, and taking women backwards as we are trying to do in so many states due to religious fanatics it depresses me even more, because I am old enough that I have fought for women's rights in my life for decades in my own time

then to realize, at the end of my time, young women may indeed lose them again. :pouty: THIS is history....


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Leomoon, genealogy and family history are fascinating topics. I've not done DNA testing, but I have a lot of archival records on a couple of sides of the family.

One thing you might do is look for repeat astrological signatures running through generations. I've got 5 generations in my family with strong sun-Pluto contacts, meaning either a Scorpio sun and/or major aspects between the sun and Pluto.

You can't look at moon aspects without birth times, but with birth dates and locations you can do a lot with the other planets.

There is a metaphysical theory that souls tend to incarnate in family groups to work out issues together. If this view is legitimate, it would make sense for it to show up in astrological signs and/or aspects.


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Thanks Waybread for commenting. You are the first - in some time.
I'd love to understand what the 2 X's or 4 times removed means, as well as my earlier questions about the 8th cousins.

Very confusing.

But what I've learned is that there are themes running through the famly, as I said, the theme of the haves and have nots. All my life I have been one who helped those who had not, whether it was through politics or personally. I see in the family tree (like with Coffin, and the Aboltionisits, they too did this...so thats very interesting)

I'll need to dig out the Astrology portion of their lives. I'm not too interested in the wealthier ones who did nothing with their wealth except to squander it.

And as I said, I felt horrible for the women in particular, both well off and not well off who had a baby a year or every other year. And hate the idea of not providing free women's care throughout our country for a woman's sexual needs. That REALLY bothers me a lot. :sideways: I should look up Clara Barton or these people of our past generations:

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-are-...al, religious, moral, and political decisions.

Women's Rights in the 1700s

In the 1700s, influential women also spoke out about women's rights from time to time. Abigail Adams, the wife of U.S. founding father and second President John Adams, asked her husband to "remember the ladies" in a letter in which she discussed disparities in women's and men's education.

Hannah Moore, Mary Wollstonecraft, and Judith Sargent Murray focused especially on women's right to an adequate education. They used their writing to advocate for women having influence over social, religious, moral, and political decisions. In "A Vindication of the Rights of Woman" (1791–1792), Wollstonecraft called for women to be educated, have equality in marriage, and have control over family size.

In 1791 during the French Revolution, Olympe de Gouges wrote and published the "Declaration of the Rights of Woman and of the Citizen." In this document, she called for women to have free speech, including the right to name the father of their children and equality for out-of-wedlock children, a demand that suggested that women had the same right as men to have sexual relationships outside of marriage.


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Perhaps try reducing the text number on your computer - and then the bar below, ....personally, I don't know because I'm not computer savvy myself.


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I'm related to Clara Barton (who created the American Red Cross) in this country during the Civil War) it looks like.

Clarissa Harlowe Barton (December 25, 1821 – April 12, 1912) was an American nurse who founded the American Red Cross. She was a hospital nurse in the American Civil War, a teacher, and a patent clerk. Since nursing education was not then very formalized and she did not attend nursing school, she provided self-taught nursing care.[1] Barton is noteworthy for doing humanitarian work and civil rights advocacy at a time before women had the right to vote.[2] She was inducted into the National Women's Hall of Fame in 1973

She was born in Massachusetts (a Free State)
but died in Maryland (which was a slave State I've learned since, that Abraham Lincoln, did not free the slaves there until one year later then the Southern States. Why? I'm not sure why that was - haven't had time to really research that reason yet but I first found out from reading the Frederick Douglas Bio.

We can look at Clara Douglas natal chart however - and the partial tree that links to her - ...She had at least 2 Sea Faring Captains including her father in her tree which isn't surprising in those days with young woman of some education background in Massachusetts that their fathers could afford to educate them as well as the sons.

I'll see if the "Thumbnails" make a difference, just click on the Images to enlarge and see them :tongue::



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That is ironic, that Waybread compares the Astrology with her own? I cannot stand the sight of blood as I raised my children, unless it was absolutely necessary and my husband wasn't home, (because I'd get queasy at the sight of blood) and almost faint) he would be the one to take over with the kid's bloody knees, etc. wrap them. I always said, I could NEVER be a nurse!


On April 19, 1861, the Baltimore Riot resulted in the first bloodshed of the American Civil War. The victims, members of the 6th Massachusetts Militia, were transported after the violence to the unfinished Capitol Building in Washington D.C., where Barton lived at the time. Wanting to serve her country, Barton went to the railroad station when the victims arrived and nursed 40 men.[12] Barton provided crucial, personal assistance to the men in uniform, many of whom were wounded, hungry and without supplies other than what they carried on their backs. She personally took supplies to the building to help the soldiers.
Barton quickly recognized them, as she had grown up with some of them and even taught some. Barton, along with several other women, personally provided clothing, food, and supplies for the sick and wounded soldiers. She learned how to store and distribute medical supplies and offered emotional support to the soldiers by keeping their spirits high. She would read books to them, write letters to their families for them, talk to them, and support them.[13]
It was on that day that she identified herself with army work and began her efforts towards collecting medical supplies for the Union soldiers. Prior to distributing provisions directly onto the battlefield and gaining further support, Barton used her own living quarters as a storeroom and distributed supplies with the help of a few friends in early 1862, despite opposition in the War Department and among field surgeons.[2] Ladies' Aid Society helped in sending bandages, food, and clothing that would later be distributed during the Civil War. In August 1862, Barton finally gained permission from Quartermaster Daniel Rucker to work on the front lines. She gained support from other people who believed in her cause. These people became her patrons, her most supportive being Senator Henry Wilson of Massachusetts.[14]
After the First Battle of Bull Run, Barton placed an ad in a Massachusetts newspaper for supplies; the response was a profound influx of supplies.[15] She worked to distribute stores, clean field hospitals, apply dressings, and serve food to wounded soldiers in close proximity to several battles, including Cedar Mountain, Second Bull Run, Antietam, and Fredericksburg.[16] Barton helped both Union and Confederate soldiers.[15] Supplies were not always readily available though. At the battle of Antietam, for example, Barton used corn-husks in place of bandages:surprised:

The official photo of Clara Barton on Wikipedia or Geni reminds me a lot of the official police photo of Stephanie Lazarus in he police uniform when she was a Los Angeles Police officer and killed her ex's new wife: (caught many decades later thru DNA)

I thought they looked amazingly alike)


Stephanie Lazarus was born in the 1st decan of Aquarius on Feb. 7th., while Clara Barton was born Dec. 25th., making her a Capricorn Sun & Moon in Capricorn. Her Moon is my Sun's location



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Instead of taking the easy path of a upper middle class young woman in life, she pitched in and helped organize the country during the Civil War years, in such a manner that made her stand out in history:

from "Find a Grave: .....buried in Oxford Mass where she was born: A life well served -


As Director of the Federal Missing Persons Office, she became the first woman to manage a government bureau, receiving $15,000 in congressional appropriations and working with her own staff. As a woman in the 19th century, she had met career hardships, being ignored in promotion for men, who, at times were less qualified than she was. She and her small staff received over 63,000 requests for help and were able to locate over 22,000 men, some of whom were still alive.

A Cardinal Sun Sign - wasn't afraid to learn from others such as the Swiss and bring this learning home to use here:

In 1868 she went to Europe and among the many things she did was to visit Switzerland to learn about an organization called the International Red Cross Committee. Each member wore a badge of a red cross on a white background, and on the battlefield the men who wore the badges were always welcome as they brought medical relief for the wounded.

She also did battlefield nursing during the Franco-Prussian War. Returning to the United States, she began to work toward forming the organization that became the American Red Cross 1881.

The government agreed to permit such an organization which resulted in a Congressional charter in 1900, officially recognizing Red Cross services. She was the first president and served for twenty-three years, retiring in 1904.

She must have had great organizational skills, and it appears she never married...married to her job only.


Natal chart: Sun-Moon-Uranus-Neptune (compassion) all in the 10th house a public house- and one of leadership in the sign of leadership

MARS: In Virgo - in the 6th house of SERVICE to OTHERS - (my own stellium (Sun-Merc-Mars is here) as was my late father's...who was a Virgo Sun.

1st House: Saturn conj. Jupiter both in Leadership Cardinal sign of ARIES here also serrved her well to organize and lead others (she didn't wait on others to serrve and travel, to organize something new to help in a massive large way. Good for her, a life well lived~


Responding to natural disasters, she was there to help at the 1889 Johnstown Flood in Pennsylvania and the Galveston Hurricane of 1890. With a membership number of 160, she was one of the earliest members of the Daughters of the American Revolution.


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Next to Jesus and Plato, my favorite Philosopher of ancient times, would be the Stoic, Marcus Aurelius, who became a Roman Emperor thanks to his adopted father -

Appears to be related via marriage (in laws) from 48 centuries ago :pouty: :crying:

I did have his book "Meditations" before I was married, and read it all the time, even more-so then the Bible when I needed to be uplifted.

Here is an online copy of the book - (when I had it, there were of course no computers back in the 1960s, :wink: The preview of the book gives a little bio information. This will be helpful in examining his natal chart -


"His biological father died - then his grandfather who brought him up
when he was very young. Marcus makes reference in the
Meditations to his father’s character as he remembered it or
heard of it from others, but his knowledge must have been
more from stories than from actual memories

. Of the remainder of his childhood and his early adolescence we
know little more than can be gleaned from the Meditations.
The biography of him in the so-called Historia Augusta (a
curious and unreliable work of the late fourth century
probably based on a lost series of lives by the third-century
biographer Marius Maximus) tells us that he was a serious
child, but also that he loved boxing, wrestling, running and
falconry, that he was a good ballplayer and that he loved to
hunt. None of these are surprising occupations in an upper-
class youth"

It was by a trick of fate, that put Marcus 2nd in line, (much like a Senator Pelosi is today), to becoming the leader of Rome when the then Roman Emperor Hadrian died!

As with St. Paul (formerly Saul of Tarsus) the area of Turkey who was born part Jewish and part Roman - (lucky him, for it helped him win a trial in Rome) Marcus (one of the few so called "Good Emperors", is stained forever for persecuting the early Christians (those missionary Christians after Jesus had died...and they went out to preach of "the good word"

They (the early Christians)were seen by Saul (very much an avid orthodox Jew then, and Marcus the Emperor of Rome later one) could have been twins as they both were avid destroyers of Christians. Yet, thanks to Saul's conversion on the road to Damascus one day, (some say he had an Epileptic fit and fell off his horse) others say he had a miracle a vision of the dead Christ) who inquired of him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" He then became a new, changed person, he became Paul for all time.

Did Marcus ever change likewise? I don't think so, but he did have a high intelligence, and a philosophy of Stoicism, that adhered to higher thinking of morality in and for his day. We have to put them both in the context of the times. IF Marcus ever experienced a vision as Saul did, he too might have easily changed his heart and beliefs once held.



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58 generations that run along Marcus Aurelius - tree to my own:

His natal chart:

(we might want to consult his Meditations as we try to decipher his natal chart - to understand him better! For example, it starts on page 74 of the pdf (up until then, its bio material.
On pg. 74-74 he spoke of his mother, and how highly he thought of her and her moral teachings.

We know the Moon in our chart is the Mother symbol for us.



With his Moon in Taurus - the Moon is exalted in his chart ....


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note: At 2000 yrs old, I'd not trust the memory for the tob: (so don't use the houses:0

I always wondered if something went terribly wrong when Marcus Aurelius, married his cousin Faustina the "younger", his cousin?
Was she his 1s cousin? Elizabeth Queen of England currently married in the 1940s, her prince, Phillip who was a cousin from Germany and my grandmother from Quebec insisted that Anne was "slow" intellectually because of this intermarriage.
We were always taught in the older days, not to intermarry in your own family your own family in fear of mental illness or other types of genetic problems as seen in the Egyptian royal families that occurred too.

But with Marcus marrying Faustina, all went well until they beget Commodus, in 175A.D.

from Wikipedia:


Annia Galeria Faustina the Younger (born probably 21 September[1] c. 130 AD,[2] — 175/176 AD)[3] was a daughter of Roman Emperor Antoninus Pius and Roman Empress Faustina the Elder.

Even in it's day, this may have been quite the scandal:

EVERYONE wanted Faustina Jr.??

Faustina, named after her mother, was her parents' fourth and youngest child and second daughter; she was also their only child to survive to adulthood. She was born and raised in Rome.
Her second cousin three times removed, emperor Hadrian, had arranged with her father for Faustina to marry Lucius Verus. On 25 February 138, she and Verus were betrothed. Verus' father was Hadrian's first adopted son and his intended heir; however, when Verus' father died, Hadrian chose Faustina's father to be his second adopted son, and eventually, he became Hadrian's successor. Faustina's father ended the engagement between his daughter and Verus and arranged for Faustina's betrothal to her maternal cousin, Marcus Aurelius; Aurelius was also adopted by her father.

(as confusing to me, as today's family trees connetions are!! _:wink:

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This link shows us quickly, the most important elements of Commodus personality which came out of his life in the modern movie "The Gladiator" and reminding us that he did fell sibling rivalry. So even though a family on the outside seems perfect, when there are internal issues, (say with the mother in this case) not expressed, it will likely be expressed thorugh one or more of the children or souls attracted in vitro according to Tad Mann, the astrologer.

But unless we know the time of birth of the mother and her houses, we cannot assume to know the elements of how she felt during her pregnancy which would have led to the attraction of a soul to them via vibration and them (vice versa)

It also brings back to mind, the idea of intermarrying cousin to cousin and mental illness - for even IF Commodus might be explained with a Gladiator affair and Faustina, what about his sister?

Kissing Cousins #4

Turns out, Commodus’s family tree was pretty gnarly: His parents were actually first cousins. Gotta keep that bloodline pure.


20. Sibling Rivalry

Eventually, Commodus’s attitude had utterly violent consequences—and the attacks came from those closest to him. His ruthless sister Lucilla quickly got sick of watching Bruttia parade around as Empress, the position she once held, all while her baby brother continued on his useless rule. Not one to sit around, she started plotting his downfall.


I would not trust this tob for the houses of 2,000 yrs ago found online:

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George "Geordie" Hormel (July 17, 1928 – February 12, 2006) was an American musician and recording studio proprietor.

Seems I'm related to this late eccentric too = a 19th cousin once removed: :surprised: I'll do his natal chart for David - who was interested in it: His grandparents were the Gleasons on the father's side.

(his family tree): Click to enlarge...

His natal chart:

(no tob known):

Juno in Virgo - always married younger women

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Ref: Geordie Hormel:

I checked out his wives - and most of them had only good things to say about him even though the marriages were short (approx. 4-5 yrs) average

Juno in Virgo with no aspects made .....seems relatively strange to me.:surprised:
Then too, Venus is in the 29th degree. His daughter said, he "just loves women" and "interacting with them".

Where do we find Peter Pan in his personality??

The children are devoted, but in the end, the wives fell victim to Geordie's eccentricities and temperament, the same qualities that had charmed them in the first place. Boyishness, after all, is really restlessness.
"My mother just wanted him and he wanted his people around him," says John, the son of Geordie's second wife, Mary Lou.
"He wanted to be in the music business, and I wanted to be the Waltons," says Geordie's third wife, Nancy.

As Geordie put it in a song he recorded:

We had a perfect, most respected, regal, first-class American life.
Perfect mama, perfect daddy, who were the perfect husband and wife.
Perfect family, perfect servants, perfect order, perfect space,
And everything we had, all we said, all we did,
Of course was always in the very best taste.
With all these perfections, it was plain to see
I'd better hide the imperfections in me
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I've heard the saying, "The founding fathers would turn over in their graves if they but knew" or how upset they'd be if they realized not everyone would have good intentions to this extent as we have seen over the past 5 years in this country to overturn the government they prepared but not quite well enough else there would not have been nooks and crannies of legality

The Founding Fathers for the most part were intellectual men for certain, but lacking as all men are in some ethical way. None were saints. Some probably came closer then others, but I intend to speak of Thomas Jefferson whose hypocrisy was easy to see both then and now. Those who do not see it choose to overlook it for the sake of his intelligence alone. We know James Madison knew him very well, because they were close enough he named his first out of wedlock child with his wife's slave Sally Hemmings "Madison" after his friend James Madison.

But the soul relies on the spiritual ethics not on your mathematical know how or spelling bee tests.
We are lucky in this era as astrologers when it comes to Jefferson, because we have both his natal chart from his life as Jefferson and a lifetime during the 20th century according to Edgar Cayce who gave him a few readings because he was a close family friend's child. Actually, in this lifetime he was nicknamed "TJ" for Thomas Jefferson. I also have the charts for Ben Franklin and his reincarnation we may be able to study or compare.

But for now, I'd like to concentrate on Thomas Jefferson. He came up in my family tree work for DNA.

Apparently, the way this works in Genealogy, is the "2 or 5 times Removed as they say" refers to Great Grandparents - (in order to be cousins) in a tree -
Although they still calculate it, I think it goes too far back and is meaningless for the most part, but interesting to see the relatives as they "stream" into a tree for the person.

This article better explains how I feel about it, and I really think it more accurate in the end suggesting we not take Genealogy all that seriously:
(everyone is related in some manner)



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My 12th Cousin family tree 5 X removed (5 Great Grandparents removed): I hope I'm the opposite of his personality and think I am far more insightful with my natal planets all below the horizon - "Know thyself" whereas he simply spoke those words and preached them to others but didn't practice them from what I have read:

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