Did my neighbor kill her baby

[kalinka]

Swiss astrodienst ephemeris, I find the most accurate.

As you see, Venus never overtakes Mars' degrees.

 

[kalinka]

Interesting take on chart.

There was another woman in the apt also, i think her girlfriend. I wonder if she was involved now also. She said boyfriend did it but I am not sure if he was even in apt at the time. I don't know the details of when he arrived or was there. But I do know, it was her, her girlfriend, her twins, and her son who is a child who were definitely all home. She had been "partying" all night. Said that she couldn't deal with the noise of her babies crying. Later said it was boyfriend who couldn't deal with the noise so killed one and tried to kill other. I wouldn't say it was an accident since you can't beat something accidently, even it was in a short burst of emotion. Its still what it is, even if the intent wasn't to kill. Maybe her son was the witness that you are speaking of also? since that is likely also.

For me Jupiter is the significator of the dead child. Mercury represents the other children. If we take the turned 11th for her (girl-)friend, the ruler is also mercury. Mercury and Jupiter are in sextile aspect (but it's still not perfect).
However Mercury is in Jupiter's domicile. So mercury could be a witness, too. But I'm not sure. I am seeing Venus more involved in this case. Part of murder in cancer is at 26 Degree. The Antiscia of this lot is in conjunction with Venus.

 

[tikana]

Incase you've not noticed Tikana, were all individuals who all read charts in different ways, we don't all read charts the same as you. We've all come to our own conclusions using our own techniques and our own ways of viewing the chart.

Case closed.

accusing a person of a murder she didnt commit is your own way of interpreting a chart? you just threw in almost irrelevant placement/aspect to justify she did it... really?
you blew through lunar aspect which just perfected (any horary astrologer looks at the lunar aspect within the orb and see what lead to the situation/question).
You threw out Mars that changed signs from being exalted into peregrine - what doess that tell you? She was extactic when she gave birth to a baby.that newborn was taken from her(peregrine state) and Mars hates sun. A. you have moon hates sun then you have Mars hating sun.. guess what? Sun did it.
All 3 kids are in bad shape
Moon - via combusta
Jupiter - fall
merc - fall .. merc in fall - on desc will likely to survive (throwing a possobility)
It's not about MY way of reading charts. it is about READING charts PROPERLY we all read charts differently but to miss out on that ugly full moon in a crime chart. police hasnt arrested her. they would have.

 

[tikana]

For me Jupiter is the significator of the dead child. Mercury represents the other children. If we take the turned 11th for her (girl-)friend, the ruler is also mercury. Mercury and Jupiter are in sextile aspect (but it's still not perfect).
However Mercury is in Jupiter's domicile. So mercury could be a witness, too. But I'm not sure. I am seeing Venus more involved in this case. Part of murder in cancer is at 26 Degree. The Antiscia of this lot is in conjunction with Venus.

part of murder's dispositor is Moon again.
Also 26 cancer is opposite of jup and pluto. Jupiter is 2nd baby?
The querent is asking about did she kill a newborn? Its not about multiple children question. I know your thinkng process is but it is not part of a question. I would be looking at other children as well.
as far as Mars. Mars is void - it is not within orb of anything .. therefore nothing happens to mars.

 

[kalinka]

part of murder's dispositor is Moon again.
Also 26 cancer is opposite of jup and pluto. Jupiter is 2nd baby?
The querent is asking about did she kill a newborn? Its not about multiple children question. I know your thinkng process is but it is not part of a question. I would be looking at other children as well.
as far as Mars. Mars is void - it is not within orb of anything .. therefore nothing happens to mars.

She was asking then if her girlfriend and her other children could be the witness, too. So they are mercury for me. 5th house ruler is jupiter, in conjunction with Pluto and in Saturn's rulership, the newborn is Jupiter in my opinion. And you mentioned the opposition with the part of murder, which is also an indication that it's Jupiter. And as I wrote...if we take the 7th house as Asc, part of death would be in pisces and the other one in exact conjunction with Saturn. Part of murder is in Sagittarius therefore, Dispositor is Jupiter.
However I'm open for other interpretations. So Moon could be the newborn,too. But overall the most indications speaks for her as murderer.

 

[ElenaJ]

As you see, Venus never overtakes Mars' degrees.

Venus completes the aspect with mars, why is it relevant in this case what Venus does afterwards?
The point is that the aspect will be complete, not in the past but in the future.

 

[kalinka]

Venus completes the aspect with mars, why is it relevant in this case what Venus does afterwards?
The point is that the aspect will be complete, not in the past but in the future.

For me it isn't important I just said that the trine isn't separating or applying. My software and online calendars tell something else and also in the ephemeris table I don't see that happen. However it does not matter at all..the trine wasn't in the past in any case.

 

[ElenaJ]

"Neighbour is 3rd - mars --- last aspect was a trine to venus (which fortifies her) - she didn't do it"

This is why it was important. This is no longer valid.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Interesting take on chart.

There was another woman in the apt also, i think her girlfriend. I wonder if she was involved now also. She said boyfriend did it but I am not sure if he was even in apt at the time. I don't know the details of when he arrived or was there. But I do know, it was her, her girlfriend, her twins, and her son who is a child who were definitely all home. She had been "partying" all night. Said that she couldn't deal with the noise of her babies crying. Later said it was boyfriend who couldn't deal with the noise so killed one and tried to kill other. I wouldn't say it was an accident since you can't beat something accidently, even it was in a short burst of emotion. Its still what it is, even if the intent wasn't to kill. Maybe her son was the witness that you are speaking of also? since that is likely also.

Thank you for the interpretations, both were insightful.

There is some evidence that detectives are going through, which I'm hoping will show her as the person responsible. Because my gut instincts have been that it was her.

I will update, if she gets charged.

Here is the best i can interpret since i dont study horary. Im the querant so im ruled by mercury. Mercury is in the 7th because its a question about someone else. My neighbor would be represented by mars 3rd house trad ruler in 5th house of children. Saturn rules 5th, and there is a conjunction of mars and saturn. So is that a yes? Or does it just indicate her children? And more is to be read in chart.

I am curious what the chart indicates. I think it was her, which may be reflected in the chart already. According to her; her newborn was murdered by her boyfriend. I certainly think her boyfriend is capable of it, since he is violent and has severe mental problems. She had twins, and 1 other son. One of the twins was killed by being punched in head. The other one is in the hospital with a skull fracture, but will likely also die in my opinion.

What does the chart say? was it her?
This is the chart of when the question came to me. Not a chart of the event itself which happened day before. I don't know the exact time for that, so didn't cast a chart for it.

Incase you've not noticed Tikana, were all individuals who all read charts in different ways, we don't all read charts the same as you. We've all come to our own conclusions using our own techniques and our own ways of viewing the chart.

Case closed.

BASIC CRITERIA FOR HORARY QUESTIONS

Is it any of your business?
- after all, why do you want to know?
If you are asking the question
then it assumes that

you have a fear that your neighbour committed murder.
Whatever the horary says, from a practical point of view
you may not need to know.

There is a case to be made that
the question is not appropriate on an internet forum
because it is so important and carries such sensitivity
it should perhaps be only discussed in a context where that sensitivity
and importance is understood and respected.
Unfortunately sensitivity and respect
can be found in short supply sometimes online.

 

[Student of Astrology]

On the chart is the question, 'Did she do it?'

..Am I wrong to use Lily as a guide here, to use the 1st H.C. as the Mother's house, Mercury as lord of the woman (cold clinical Virgo) asked about? Mercury in fall (excuse me oh so sorry, as I make my excuses I didn't stop him) Co-lord Moon's last aspect is important as with all of the delineations above, but a clincher is to understand the Moon's as function ultimately within a chart. Her last aspect as a benign energy (=yes) or discordantly (=no) (Marc Edmund Jones technique). She appears in the 2nd house, (future of the woman is soon appearing, in Lawyer Libra, and her sign (ending conclusions Cancer of the radical 4th) is upon the 11th house, Cancer rules the womb and the tomb). Moon's last aspect is technically a non Ptolemaic aspect to Mercury, but a square (obstacle) to Jupiter as foundational to be able to give a no answer to the question.

The Lawyer hears the weak, crying pleas of the woman, (Mercury in fall in feminine Pisces, dual Venus as depositor, 7th house, will soon to be opposed by her own Ascendant, = pleads to be separated by that self undoing of non responsiveness) and defends her. (Bc she could of stopped the man, but didn't she will serve her time, Mercury moving to Sun (Leo lord of the 12th of imprisonment) after he leaves the sign of Pisces)

Enactment: The woman (possibly drugged, out of it) numbly stood by (didn't plan it and didn't stop the action) and lets the boyfriend murder her children.

Grist for the grill: Why would the woman who asks this question have thought she did it, bc she apparently knows something first hand about the neighbors temperament.

Moon's last aspect is a square (obstacle= no) towards the question. The partying, the troublesome crying of her children, the inebriation of the individuals, all intertwine for spontaneous combustion and motive 'if' there was one of premeditation, which I doubt. All the mental motive planets (plan?) are within the house of partying 5th, Pluto, malevolent aspect (square) from Sun (male) surfacing as a spontaneous action, to Pluto.

It is interesting to see the quincunx aspect Moon makes to Neptune in Pisces, Neptune (12th house, prison time) in my opinion will touch her, she won't be exempt. Moon is sickened by the actions after she sobers up. Ivy Jacobson - Goldstein, a planet (significator) aspecting discordantly a cusp or a planet within the 6th house is sickened by the outcome or a judgment given.

Did she do it? Is a very distinct question, short and sweet representing who the people are by house, planet, etc. I agree Moon rules the children additionally, but Moon is in a dual bodied sign, can represent events and plural individual(s).

Sincerely
Student of Astrology

 

[ashriia]

accusing a person of a murder she didnt commit is your own way of interpreting a chart? you just threw in almost irrelevant placement/aspect to justify she did it... really?

Shouldnt we all be allowed to interpret charts using our own methods? Its not about who is right and wrong. Its the study/practice thats important.

The final verdict is not going to have anything to do with astrology anyway, but what the investigators conclude. So I don't see the problem.

Obviously I don't know horary myself, but I can't be the only one interested in seeing all the different techniques that are being applied.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Yes it's my business. I live in same building, this is my neighbor.
This was a murder in the building I live in, that has affected everyone
who lives here.
I think that constitutes if its my business.

There is a case to be made that
the question is not appropriate on an internet forum
because it is so important and carries such sensitivity
it should perhaps be only discussed in a context where that sensitivity
and importance is understood and respected.
Unfortunately sensitivity and respect
can be found in short supply sometimes online.

 

[Chrysalis]

The question is appropriate for an internet forum, so be it an astrological learning forum she has posted it on, which enables astrology learners to put their astrological techniques to use.

And sensitivity and importance is understood and respected regarding this thread.

 

[ashriia]

There is a case to be made that
the question is not appropriate on an internet forum
because it is so important and carries such sensitivity
it should perhaps be only discussed in a context where that sensitivity
and importance is understood and respected.
Unfortunately sensitivity and respect
can be found in short supply sometimes online.

Its a sensitive topic, yes. But I havent revealed names or addresses or anything personal or when it even happened. This is strictly an astrological interest in what the chart shows.

 

[tikana]

Shouldnt we all be allowed to interpret charts using our own methods? Its not about who is right and wrong. Its the study/practice thats important.

The final verdict is not going to have anything to do with astrology anyway, but what the investigators conclude. So I don't see the problem.

Obviously I don't know horary myself, but I can't be the only one interested in seeing all the different techniques that are being applied.

You dont do horary
The murder has nothing to do with you
Your life is not in danger
Its not your personal matter.
Unless its something else you are not telling us.
Next q you will run.. Did my neighbor change underwear today? Horary is about self related
If you had asked "is my life in danger?" that would be whole another subject. But Nooo, you asked did my neighbor kill a child.

 

[tikana]

For me it isn't important I just said that the trine isn't separating or applying. My software and online calendars tell something else and also in the ephemeris table I don't see that happen. However it does not matter at all..the trine wasn't in the past in any case.

Mars / venus completed only col with Saturn. Saturn is dignified. Mars was dignified as well. Anything involving beneficial planets jup or venus fortifies the significator. Besides no aspects ftom mars made with merc jup or the moon. Again points to No

 

[tikana]

She was asking then if her girlfriend and her other children could be the witness, too. So they are mercury for me. 5th house ruler is jupiter, in conjunction with Pluto and in Saturn's rulership, the newborn is Jupiter in my opinion. And you mentioned the opposition with the part of murder, which is also an indication that it's Jupiter. And as I wrote...if we take the 7th house as Asc, part of death would be in pisces and the other one in exact conjunction with Saturn. Part of murder is in Sagittarius therefore, Dispositor is Jupiter.
However I'm open for other interpretations. So Moon could be the newborn,too. But overall the most indications speaks for heru as murderer.

Well yea.. Someone else saw the murder 3rd house because way too many planets making aspects. We are not off target, Kalinka. Saturn could be a witness as well. Mars - saturn - altercation - violent argument

 

[JUPITERASC]

Its a sensitive topic, yes.
But I havent revealed names or addresses
or anything personal
or when it even happened.
This is strictly an astrological interest in what the chart shows.
I'm not out to get her either, thats not my job.
I just think she did it, sure.
For many reasons.

then contact Law Eforcement
not an online amateur learning astrology board

And I wanted to see what the astrology said.

our forum has never claimed
to have a bevy of omnipotent learner horarists
capable of telling you for certain

also

You dont do horary

The murder has nothing to do with you

Your life is not in danger

Its not your personal matter.

Unless its something else you are not telling us.

Exactly

 

[ashriia]

If you don't want to interpret chart, don't.

The rest of this is totally unncessary. I am not breaking any rules here.

You dont do horary
The murder has nothing to do with you
Your life is not in danger
Its not your personal matter.
Unless its something else you are not telling us.
Next q you will run.. Did my neighbor change underwear today? Horary is about self related
If you had asked "is my life in danger?" that would be whole another subject. But Nooo, you asked did my neighbor kill a child.

 

[Chrysalis]

What has this thread even come to? Its an amateur learning forum yes it is, but I've seen worse threads than this opened about topics similar to this, with less negative attention.

Let the battles commence.

Op lives in a block of flats where a "supposed" murder lives amongst her, i think id want to know too, if this female was the killer who id been living amongst.
It's a viable question to be asked, i don't see the problem.