DETERMINING The LORD Of The GENITURE Using TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY ONLY

JUPITERASC

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Anyone seeking chart readings on this matter
is requested to post their thread
on Read My Chart Board
THIS THREAD IS INFORMATIONAL

so
for ANY astrology charts USE FREE TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY CHART CALCULATOR on astroseek,com
which DISPLAYS ONLY the SEVEN VISIBLE CLASSICAL PLANETS


LORD OF THE GENITURE is aka LORD OF THE NATIVITY :)

i.e.
The most powerful planet in the chart

as defined by essential and accidental dignity. :)

This is often confused with the ALMUTEN of the Figure

HOWEVER
whereas the Lord of the Geniture recognises accidental dignity
generally the Almuten of the Figure does not.
Dorotheus+Dignities.jpg


Tom Callanan wrote on this issue explaining that
Traditional Western astrology has a concept of Lord - or Lady - of the geniture.
Modernist astrology uses ascendant ruler as the “..ruler of the chart..” but that has its weaknesses.
Suppose the chart has Libra rising & Venus is in Aries - in house 8
Is this the planet we might wish to be in charge or the one that dominates the chart?
- doubtful. because is more usual to lead with our strengths.

The idea is to look for a strong planet that has great influence
and see how it plays out in the life.

The Lord of the Geniture is defined
as the planet with the most essential and accidental dignity
THAT CAN ACT.
A powerful Jupiter in the 12th might not be as good a choice
as a weaker Mars in the 10th. Planets in houses 6, 8 & 12 have difficulty acting.
They usually require a strong aspect or strong reception to achieve their potential
or an enormous amount of will power on the part of the native.

USEFUL INFO FOR INTERESTED BEGINNERS FOLLOWS:

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A planets essential dignity
is found
by using the table of dignities
and
noting which of its own positions a planet occupies

in the chart under discussion.
Rulership, exaltation, and triplicity are important ones
term and face less so.

ACCIDENTAL DIGNITY has to do with house position
as well as aspects to strong planets et al.
So Saturn in Taurus in a night chart might not have much essential dignity
but if conjunct the ASC sextile Venus in Pisces in 11
then has a good deal of accidental dignity.

Essential dignity is potential
accidental dignity is power to act

Many Hellenistic astrologers (for example, Dorotheus of Sidon


images

considered triplicity rulership the most powerful & demonstrable :)
of the several essential dignities of a planet.

images


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JUPITERASC

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TRADITIONAL HOUSE TOPICS :)

I - Life, Appearance, Siblings - Early
II - Livelihood, Wealth, Expectations - After Early
III - Relatives, Partnership, Weakness - Before End
IV - Parents, Household, Mysticism - End
V - Fortune, Beneficence, Legacy - After End
VI - Injury, Enmity, Servants - Before Later
VII - Affairs, Success, Living Abroad - Later
VIII - Property, Acquisition, Inheritance - After Later
IX - Travel, Education, Inaction - Before Middle
X - Action, Rank, Children - Middle
XI - Friendship, Opportunities, Gifts - After Middle
XII - Suffering, Maleficence, Enemies - Before Early


In nativities, malefics are better when they are post-ascending
for then they do not harm the stars and images that are ascending.
They are best when ascending and favorably placed
for then they bring good fortune. Inoperative stars cause reversals and weakness.



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JUPITERASC

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TRADITIONALLY
LORD OF THE GENITURE does not use you - you use it :)

The ancients say we must be wary of a planet's essential nature
i.e.
whether benefic or malefic
its sect
its phase
whether direct or retrograde
whether faster or slower than its mean motion
whether combust/under the beams/cazimi
the sign it is in
i.e.
in whose domicile
its essential dignities - as well as the element of the sign
the mode of the sign
the gender of the sign
the sect of the sign
its accidental dignities
relationship with other planets
houses
and lots
et al

The question is: how much harm can a planet like Jupiter or Venus do
when ill-dignified in their fall or detriment
and how much good can Mars or Saturn do when essentially dignified

Venus and Jupiter cannot do much harm either way.
On the other hand, an essentially dignified Saturn can do much good
using Saturnian ways which are not always pleasant :)

whilst in its detriment or fall SATURN can become even more malefic.

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
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Traditional astrology
looks not just at the domicile ruler
i.e.
what modernistic astrology misleadingly calls '..sign ruler..'
but
also
at the planet that has the most dignities on that degree of the chart
. :)
Traditional Astrology looks at the 5 dignities:
Domicile ruler, Exaltation ruler, triplicity ruler, terms/bound ruler & Face/Decan ruler.
This was systematised in the medieval period with a points system:
i.e.

Domcile ruler (5)
Exaltation ruler (4)
Triplicity ruler (3)
Term/Bound ruler (2)
Face/ Decan ruler (1).




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JUPITERASC

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keep in mind
The Lord of the Geniture is the planet with the most essential dignity
with the caveat :)
that a planet with less essential dignity in a good place
might be better than
a planet with a lot of essential dignity in a bad house

such as 6, 8, or 12
because in this case

the planet with more essential dignity has a more difficult time acting
than the planet with a lot of accidental dignity.

keep in mind

From Robert Schmidt's HELLENISTIC ASTROLOGY lectures:

"..A planet in domicile rulership
or exaltation
or in its own horia aka bounds/term

is like a planet riding in its own covered chariot
hence protected from the sun when he/she is combust..
"

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JUPITERASC

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A treasure of natal astrology, drawing on Abu 'Ali, 'Umar al-Tabari
among others - all matters pertaining to the houses: prosperity and wealth
siblings, parents and their longevity, children, servants and illnesses
marriage and enemies, death, spirituality and travel, reputation & profession
friends, secret enemies.
Bonatti provides information on primary directions, profections

& other predictive techniques (309 pp). Click here for a PDF excerpt.

nativities-6x9.jpg
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
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A native of Washington, D.C. Alan White served in Vietnam from 1963-64
as a green beret with the 5th Special Forces Group.
Alan’s interest in astrology began in 1963 when he bought a Zodiac watch in Saigon
which depicted the phases of the Moon. Initially skeptical
he began studying seriously in the 1970s

eventually attending astrological conference in the 1980s.

He discovered traditional astrology through Project Hindsight
by attending the second PHASE Conclave in Berkeley Springs, West Virginia.

Alan subsequently became a close associate of the Project.
He began giving introductory lectures on Hellenistic astrology in the late 1990s.

In summarizing his philosophy of astrology he was particularly fond of a statement by
the Medieval astrologer Guido Bonatti :)

that the purpose of astrology is to reconstruct the past
understand the present, and predict the future.



May 2001 Alan White was sent to Seattle to run a trade show booth for Project Hindsight
at the annual Northwest Astrological Conference. One night at the conference Alan
was talking with a group of Kepler students & regaling them with stories about Hellenistic astrology

and they became intrigued enough to encourage him to put on an impromptu lecture on the subject
in an empty conference room that same night. The lecture was particularly successful
Kepler students encouraged one of their teachers Demetra George to develop a course
on Hellenistic astrology for the Kepler curriculum. Demetra spent several months studying under Alan White

& Robert Schmidt of Project Hindsight during the winter of 2001/2. She began teaching the course
on Hellenistic astrology at Kepler in 2002.

To whatever extent the subsequent revival of Hellenistic astrology today

and in the future is the result of Demetra’s teachings or those whom she taught
it is thanks to Alan White that this transmission was able to take place :)

and his most lasting legacy and contribution to the astrological community :)



lecture by the late astrologer Alan Whiteon an introduction to Hellenistic astrology
and
audio interview with Alan about his life and work from 2010.
Alan began studying astrology seriously in the 1980s
and then in the mid-1990s he discovered Project Hindsight
and developed a deep interest in ancient astrology.
He created an introductory lecture on Hellenistic astrology using a flip chart
that he presented at a number of astrological meetings in the 2000s
and one of these presentations in 2001
led to Demetra George teaching a course on the subject at Kepler College :)


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JUPITERASC

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The following are basics of Hellenistic analysis from Vettius Valens :)
as translated by Robert Schmidt https://projecthindsight.net/

To find conditions relevant to the fitness and/or ability of a planet
to conduct its business
commence with assessing conditions that are relative to the horizon

so:

If a planet is in an angular or succedent Whole Sign house
then the planet is in a place conducive to the conduct of its business.
Angular Houses = 1,4,7,10: Succedent Houses = 2,5,8.11

If a planet remains angular when using dynamic house system Porphyry
then the planet is said to be 'goaded' towards more activity.

If a planet is in a cadent Whole Sign house, then the planet is in a place
that is not conducive to the conduct of its business.
Cadent Houses = 3,6,9,12

If a benefic planet is in a cadent house, the beneficence of the planet
is turned away from the native - or native’s agenda.

If a malefic planet is in a cadent house, the malevolence of the planet

is turned away from the native - or the native's agenda.

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
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ROBERT SCHMIDT - THE NAUTICAL METAPHOR :)

Owner = Oikodespotes aka Domicile Master

and
the Captain = Kurios aka Lord of the Nativity).
The names the Owner & the Captain are based on the ancient texts :)


Kurios or Almuten of the chart reveals the native's manner of living, actions, Ego
If Kurios occupies a cadent place, the native will be prone to obtain posessions, assets
things which could measure, things which give an auspicious environment for life
material things, quantitative items

If Kurios occupies a succedent place, the native will be prone to obtain material
as well as spiritual values
from commitments, goals or expectations
& is prone to obtain comfort & pleasure, qualitative items

If Kurios occupies an angular place the native is prone to obtain the quintesence of life
things which give direction, purpose, faith.
Now it depends if Kurios is in sect or out of sect. The attitude does matter.

Kurios has many implications.

The identification of Kurios is not about counting dignities and numbers.

A distinction of what the Owner is not
The Owner is not necessarily the same as the Giver of Years
- which has the same name, Oikodespotes
and
which the Perso-Arabs call Alcocoden

unless accidentally.
Why? Because the Owner is derived from the Predominator
& only the Lights and the Ascendant are used

whereas the Giver of Life aka Apheta, Hyleg uses PoFortune
& SAN aka prenatal lunation

in addition to these
Some authors use the MC portion - Vettius Valens
others use Spirit - Paul of Alexandria
Likewise, the Predominator is not the same as the Giver of Life unless accidentally.

In fact the Predominator is almost the same as the Apheta/Releasing point
in the predictive technique called Decennials, especially when given by Valens.
It also uses the Sun, Moon and the Asc
and if both Lights fall amiss
one defaults to the Asc
- in the sense of using the first planet in zodiacal order after the Asc.


Whole Signs aka WS are implied for Decennials, but that is not made explicit.
On the other hand, it is known for a fact that quadrant houses
are to be used for the length of life in using the Giver of Life.
To put it more correctly, dynamical houses like Porphyry
are used to gauge the activity of the planets and points
but not for topics
thus
an 11th house Sun by quadrant but in the 10th place from the Asc
is counted as a succedent Giver of Life or of Years
but topically it will speak about 10th place matters. :)


Since Antiochus and Porphyry do not say what house system
is to be used for the Predominator

using a dynamical one vs WS
will most often give different results for the Predominator

and thus for the Owner
- unless the latter happens to coincide.
By reading the language carefully, Robert Schmidt favours that WS are meant. :)

Another very tricky part about the Predominator
is the phrase which Schmidt translates “...in the east...”
and Greenbaum “...being carried up in the east...”
Also Dorian gives for a similar case “...going up toward the east...”
while Schmidt gives “...ascending in the east...”

The difficulty lies in figuring out what this means
i.e.
does the Antiochus/Porphyry
or some older one they might be quoting

mean the usual eastern/masculine & western/feminine quadrants from the Asc
as explicated by Ptolemy and others
or does he mean something else?
Schmidt has one understanding on the matter which supposes that
the author meant the names of the WS places.

Greenbaum, while offering no commentary
when translating what Schmidt does as “...declining westward...”
as “...declining on the west...”
she adds “...side of the chart...” in brackets: declining on the west side of the chart.

What he may mean by east and west
is what Greenbaum added in the brackets

that is, side of the chart.
In other words, the line of the MC/IC portion divides the chart.

Whatever is to the left side of the MC/IC when looking at the chart, that is
from the Asc to the MC and from the Asc to IC, is eastern
and whatever is from the MC to the Dsc and the Dsc to the IC is western.

So, if this is true, and I repeat he never makes it explicit
then how significant is this?

It is very significant!
Why? Because this would mean that no Light can be a Predominator if
in the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th quadrant houses.


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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
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How to Determine the Predominator of a chart :)
The predominator of a chart is the Light of the Time
- i.e. Sun by day or Moon by night - provided it is not cadent.
The cadent houses are 3/6/9/12


In a diurnal or day chart, if the sun is cadent then the moon is predominator.
In a nocturnal or night chart, if the moon is cadent, then the sun is predominator.

If both the sun and moon are cadent, then the ascendant is the predominator.

Unsurprisingly, there was some disagreement

when some Hellenistic astrologers thought that
if the domicile ruler of the ascendant is also cadent, then the Lot of Fortune should be the predominator.


As soon as the predominator had been found :)
HELLENISTIC astrologers then proceeded to determine the 2nd Primary Ruler
or “...oikodespotes...” of the natal chart.

Determination of the Oikodespotes
Oikodespotes is a Greek word Schmidt says means “...domicile master...”
e.g. Mars is Oikodespotes of Aries and Scorpio, Venus is Oikodespotes of Taurus and Libra,
Mercury is Oikodespotes of Gemini and Virgo, Jupiter is the Oikodespotes of Sagittarius and Pisces,
Saturn is Oikodespotes of Capricorn and Aquarius, Sun is Oikodespotes of Leo,
Moon is Oikodespotes of Cancer.



Venus is the domicile master aka Oikodespotes of Taurus and Libra
because Venus claims those signs as her dwelling place.


The Oikodespotes aka domicile master of the whole chart
is the domicile ruler of the predominator's sign
and is the planet that claims the entire chart as his/her dwelling place.
The Oikodespotes aka domicile master is the one who sets the agenda/policy in native’s life.

The bound - aka term - ruler of the predominator is the “...overseer...”
who sets any restrictions over the domicile master - aka oikodespotes - of the chart.

In natal chart delineation, Hellenistic astrologers wanted
(a) the domicile master aka Oikodespotes of the predominator to aspect the predominator and

(b) the bound ruler of the predominator to aspect - aka '...be configured...' to
- the domicile master aka oikodespotes of the chart.
The Hellenistic astrologer would also assess
whether those planets are
“...favorable...” or “...unfavorable...” to the native. :)
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JUPITERASC

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Here are Porphyry’s considerations :)
for determining if one of the luminaries can become Predominator:


  • The luminary that belongs to the sect of the chart is preferred (Sun day day, Moon by night).
  • The luminary that is more angular is preferred over one that is in a less angular house.
  • The one that is more eastern in the chart (towards the rising sign) is preferred.
    • g. if the Sun is in the 1st house in a day chart, Sun is the Predominator.
    • Sun in the 9th with the Moon in the 1st, then Moon is Predominator.
  • If both luminaries are in cadent houses, then the Ascendant becomes Predominator.



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JUPITERASC

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We see the importance of the dignities
mainly the domiciles and exaltations.
Having a planet in domicile will help it to predominate :)
while a planet in fall cannot predominate :)
unless it is in the same degree as the Ascendant.


This implies that even if a planet is in the Midheaven
which is angular and a favourable house
if it is in its fall, it cannot predominate.

Similarly when the planets are in the 11th and 5th places
both of which are considered operative places.

Thus, these dignities have a great impact on predomination
maybe even more than house placement.

Robert Schmidt speculated that the house system used to determine the predominator
might have been the Porphyry house system

instead of whole-signs, although he was not certain about this.

Porphyry points out the sensitive places, where we should look out for the Kurios.

There are in fact, two distinct algorithms.

First algorithm, and the most important, refers to the Midheaven .
& it could be also reffering to the 10th place. Why Midheaven?
Because this place is indicative of actions - praxis
- of ruling and leading.
If the ruler of the Midheaven is not in a pivotal image
Porphyry suggests to choose the planet upon the Midheaven
& which “..is ruling over action in the nativity as if in a citadel..”.
IF there isn’t such a planet
Porphyry suggests to choose the planet which is ascending
- after the Midheaven - Schimdt
- before the Midheaven - Holden

The central ideea is that everything is revolving around the Midheaven
because is the most fit place to conduct businesess of the Kurios.
Now, suppose that Midheaven falls in the 11th place, then what?
The planet ascending after the Midheaven could fall in the 12th place
& that which ascends before it, could fall in the 10th place?
- so Porphyry was reffering to the Midheaven as an horoscopic point
and not to the 10th place.
- so that the planet which falls upon the Midheaven is referring
to the planet which ocuppies the degree or the confines of the Midheaven.
Also, the third choice is in fact the closest planet to the degree of Midheaven
which occupies the same image.
This is the aglorithm of Porphyry
The central ideea of second algorithm is that Kurios is chosen primarly by the type of business it conducts.
Only if the AS surroundings are not optimal you will check Selene.
The worst scenario is to appeal to the confines of the prenatal lunation to idenitify the Kurios.
This means that the rest of the candidates failing in their duty to conduct their business
or at least what Kurios was supposed to do.
The confines of the prenatal lunation, broadly speaking, are showing the operating principles for the natives life.
They are related with actions as they guide them.
How about a planet who is just in phasis? What places shall it rule?

There is much to say on the subject.


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JUPITERASC

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Saturn is furthest Traditional Plane from Sun/Moon :)
Saturn is Cold & Dry.
Saturn destroys life.
Saturn undoes what Sun and Moon do.

Saturn rules Capricorn because it is diametrically opposed to Moon
and rules Aquarius because it is diametrically opposed to Sun.

Saturn is a Diurnal Planet because in a Day Chart, the heat negates
SOME OF Saturn's destructive Cold
and so isn't as cranky
and might even be only mildly rude :)

instead of deadly

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