Deceptive people..

[katydid]

I agree Moulin, my sun has neptune conjunct asc exact and he seems to be very psychic, he reads me constantly and sometimes answers what Im thinking and has done this since being a baby (hes 12 now)

I wouldnt like to think he was going to be very gulliable - although again he shows signs of that too!

He is very young still and his Neptune rising could be 'trained' in some good ways.[ studies in acting, singing, dance, drawing,painting]
Imo, neptune /asc people have a tremendous amount of 'nervous' psychic energy---it is like they are so tuned in that they literally vibrate, especially when they are adolescents. I think that is one reason neptune/asc types sometimes go off the rails during their hormonal teenage years. They look like they are being cool and laid back, when in essence they are so deeply tuned in to others psyches, that they get lost , overwhelmed or led astray.
They are the essence of vibrational healers without even knowing it.

 

[rogue_red]

What would be considered red flags in a chart if you were looking for signs of a deceptive individual? Neptune in the 1st could indicate deception, yes?
I am not talking about someone who tells little white lies, but someone who deceives with malicious intent.Any comments?

I wouldnt see neptune in the first as being the strongest indicator of deception and as lilly pointed out deception stems from a multitude of motivations. There are those who are blind to their ability to deceive others, some deceive only themselves. Neptune in 7th tends to be deceptive in their relationships with others and also has an unrealistic image of those they have affection for. Sun conjunct neptune has the ability to charm you out of your last dollar without necessarily even being aware that they are decieving you, they are the blind robbing the blind.
Neptune in first really struggles with their self identity and this can be seen by others as being deceptive but it isnt.
I cruelest and most deliberate deception would need a well placed neptune that doesnt weaken the native who bears it, a detatched moon, probably capricorn moon as it gives ambition and the ability to detatch and maybe a leo sun. Neptune would need to be in a harmonius aspect to mercury and a hard aspect to the asc.
Deliberate deception requires intelligence, creativity, charm and self centered/ambitious nature and emotional detatchment.

Rogue

 

[piscesascendant]

I can tell you (as a person whose Neptune rules his chart and is nearly square my ascendant), that those with a prominent Neptune tend to be the ones people try to manipulate and deceive, not the other way around. It's interesting that those with such a feature in their chart may get "flagged" as deceivers, when they are in fact the ones being deceived. I have a Aquarius Sun (truth seeker) and among the other parts to my chart, when I lay things down straight up, those who try to pull a fast one on me realizing "their game" is up, tend to get either nervous or angry and walk away bitterly. Interestingly, I was told by my last professional astrologer, "You have a b.s. detector like nobody's business!"

As far as true deception goes, it would probably depend on the aspects to their Neptune, but Neptune in and of itself does not qualify for deceiving.

 

[marja]

I am new to astrology. I read my chart. Do you think your chart really reveals your personality? Are all the statements usually true?

 

[piscesascendant]

Not sure if you're speaking to me or in general. I find that astrology provides the "archetypes" of life, but within those ballparks, anything is possible. It seems the majority of people assume astrology is fatalistic, "written in the stars", which can seem pleasant if your chart is favorable, a not so much if it isn't. I've also found that many people are actually afraid of it. In my opinion, there's nothing to be afraid of. But what do I mean by afraid? They conjure up scenarios to aggressively dismiss it, rather than simply gather the information and measure it on its own merits (aka, acquire someone's birth information and see if the interpretation measures up, simple as that).

Bottom line--and not to sound overly vague--although interpretations themselves usually draw their lines fairly definitively, the experiences that those interpretations ascribe can vary from person to person.

There is always free will.

Hope that helps!
Have a good weekend!

 

[freedomlover]

Piscesascendant,

I can tell you (as a person whose Neptune rules his chart and is nearly square my ascendant), that those with a prominent Neptune tend to be the ones people try to manipulate and deceive, not the other way around. It's interesting that those with such a feature in their chart may get "flagged" as deceivers, when they are in fact the ones being deceived.

You know, you're right about that. I had just been thinking this about my own chart. (Saturn in Pisces chart ruler, disposited by Neptune in Scorpio)
I have been deceived my whole life - (my b.s. detector's been broken.). It's like I've been living in a prison of lies that I can't escape from -horrible!

I got to looking at some other people's charts that I know with prominent Neptune. The same goes for them - they are being seriously deceived - not the deceiv-er. Thanks for pointing that out, Piscesascendant! I know Neptune doesn't always work that way- it does often throw out a cloud of smoke and mirrors. But it's good to see another way that Neptune can manifest in charts.

FL

 

[gaer]

I can tell you (as a person whose Neptune rules his chart and is nearly square my ascendant), that those with a prominent Neptune tend to be the ones people try to manipulate and deceive, not the other way around. It's interesting that those with such a feature in their chart may get "flagged" as deceivers, when they are in fact the ones being deceived. I have a Aquarius Sun (truth seeker) and among the other parts to my chart, when I lay things down straight up, those who try to pull a fast one on me realizing "their game" is up, tend to get either nervous or angry and walk away bitterly. Interestingly, I was told by my last professional astrologer, "You have a b.s. detector like nobody's business!"

Neptune is strong in my chart, conjunt Sun/Moon. Ditto on the b.s. detector. I am rarely fooled and often warn other people about being deceived. I have always been considered a very honest person too.

As always the whole chart needs to be considered…

As far as true deception goes, it would probably depend on the aspects to their Neptune, but Neptune in and of itself does not qualify for deceiving.[/quote]

 

[allie_b]

I think it's like with any chart reading...it all depends on which level the person is living on.

The most deceptive character I've encountered had Neptune in the 12th conjuncting his Asc. in a wide orb to squaring his Moon. The path he chose was deception. Someone else with this conjunction could be a professional intuitive or a spiritual leader, etc..

And perhaps in his case it's not that one (major) aspect of his chart which points to (the motivation) to want to deceive others. He has Saturn opposing both his Sun and his Mercury. So maybe it's out of a sense of low self-esteem that he wants to deceive in order to have "one-up" over others. I really don't know.

I do think this strong (Neptune) aspect points to his not seeing himself clearly (self-deception).

 

[gaer]

Deception is a lot like abuse. Those who have been deceived are more likely to act in a way that is also deceptive, in my opinion. It has to do with perception of what is real or true. Perhaps the challenge is to "break the chain or cycle".

If anything I associate Neptune with a *kind* of deception rather than with deception itself.

 

[allie_b]

IMO when one encounters abuse (or deception) they are not more likely to repeat it. The choice is theirs (but it is a choice) whether to repeat it or be repelled by it. And that motivation comes from within the person (again, what level they're living on).

Abuse does tend to repeat. But not all (or even most) who have been deceived or abused tend to repeat it. I'd like to think it's a minority.

I do understand that this is a generally held opinion by many people. But I'd just like to point out (non-astrologically) that those who have come from abuse (whether in childhood or in an adult relationship) are those very people who advocate so strongly against it. Just because you encounter abuse or deception, does not make you more likely to abuse or deceive. It depends on the person. You can either be repelled by it or become the abuse. But it stems from the individual person. Perhaps it's partially genetic (the amount of resiliency one has to withstand the abuse without themselves becoming abusive).

Deception is a lot like abuse. Those who have been deceived are more likely to act in a way that is also deceptive, in my opinion. It has to do with perception of what is real or true. Perhaps the challenge is to "break the chain or cycle".

If anything I associate Neptune with a *kind* of deception rather than with deception itself.

 

[gaer]

But I'd just like to point out (non-astrologically) that those who have come from abuse (whether in childhood or in an adult relationship) are those very people who advocate so strongly against it. Just because you encounter abuse or deception, does not make you more likely to abuse or deceive. It depends on the person. You can either be repelled by it or become the abuse.

Of course it is an individual matter. But think about deception in the larger sense. Those who are lied to, and here I'm talking primarily children, have to overcome a disadvantage. They start out having been taught lies and have to work through them.

I think this can be seen by the fact that people with very difficult charts often (if not always) have parents or guardians with very difficult charts.

Here is a specific example: alcholism is a theme in my family. When I was young I was taught that the only people who don't drink alcohol are narrow-minded up-tight people. In other words, all the people in the world who hardly drink at all or do not drink at all are somehow ******* up. And alcoholic are people who drink before the sun goes down.

That thinking and a lot more like it is what I inherited from my family. I had to work through that. I had to take a LONG look at people and at the world to discover that I had been lied to.

That's how the deception gets passed on.

Astrologically you can see aspects and house placements in my family members that show this "confusion". Now, if you are confused, does that mean that when you go about living from day to day that you are deliberately deceiving other people? Or even yourself?

I don't think so, though there may come a point when it turns into that. However, confused people, because of their confusion (problems) are very likely to pass this on, and the result is deception, in my opinion.

For the kind of problems I'm talking about here I would definitely look to Neptune in natal charts. Not *only* Neptune, but it seems to be a key player.

 

[allie_b]

Perhaps you are saying that some people are easily influenced and buy into the deception that the parents impart to their children more easily. You're saying that you chose to believe what your parents told you (about non-drinkers and other things). Or perhaps it's a matter of personality?

Of course we're all influenced by our upbringings to a greater or lesser extent. But whether we believe our parents hook, line and sinker or choose to question, to see the deception for what it is, is probably a matter of personality (and/or resiliency and/or genetic).

 

[gaer]

Perhaps you are saying that some people are easily influenced and buy into the deception that the parents impart to their children more easily.

No. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that little children tend to trust their parents, and they trust that what they are taught is right. Later they may come to question everything they have been taught. I don't believe most people do this. Or at least many do not.

You're saying that you chose to believe what your parents told you (about non-drinkers and other things).

No. I'm not saying that at all. *I* was one of a couple people in my family who questioned everything we were "taught".

Or perhaps it's a matter of personality?

Well, what isn't? We're back to nature/nuture. Unfortunately we are no longer talking about astrology.

Do you disagree that we can see a "history", to some extent, by observing the charts of the parents of people who also have difficult charts?

 

[Dracula]

deception hmmm
well my neptune is in 12th house,
and
Neptune in Sagittarius
Sun Square Neptune
Saturn Sextile Neptune
Neptune Sextile Pluto


what am I ?

 

[gaer]

deception hmmm
well my neptune is in 12th house,
and
Neptune in Sagittarius
Sun Square Neptune
Saturn Sextile Neptune
Neptune Sextile Pluto


what am I ?

Start with Neptune sextile Pluto. There are a HUGE number of people who have that aspect. Why? Because during the latter half of the 21st century, Pluto drifted inside Neptune's orbit and move faster. In the late 40s and after that Neptune slowly pulled into the sextile position. It was still moving faster. It stayed close to sextile for years. Then Pluto began its "faster than Neptune" period, caught up and REFORMED the sextile. That happened when you were born. Right now the sextile is AGAIN forming each summer, closest during July or early August, I think. It will form an exact sextile again in the summer of 2026.

Get the idea? Before giving any aspect involving generational planets any personal significance, you want to find another planet that aspects both. You have one, Mars, which is semi-sextile both planets. However, since this is not a major aspect, no one is probably going to agree on what (if anything) that means.

Saturn? Well, it conjuncts a slow planet only ever 30 years or so. Actually, it takes a bit longer. There have been times when Saturn has conjuncted Pluto when this conjunction made very difficult aspects to other planets. That's not really true for you. Saturn is semi-sextile Sun. Again, minor aspect.

Anyone born close to the time you were born has Saturn/Neptune sextile Pluto.

If I were looking at any potentially difficult aspect to Neptune, I'd look first at the Sun/Neptune square. But that's not too different from Sun/Neptune conjunct, which I have, and I also have Neptune conjunct Moon.

Before jumping to the conclusion that you are either deceptive or lively in a perpetual fog, I'd be more likely to think that you like to have facts presented accurately, plus with Moon in Leo, it might not be even fun to "be in the spotlight" while people are looking at you (your chart).

 

[Dracula]

.........

Before jumping to the conclusion that you are either deceptive or lively in a perpetual fog, I'd be more likely to think that you like to have facts presented accurately, plus with Moon in Leo, it might not be even fun to "be in the spotlight" while people are looking at you (your chart).

both are correct, second one is 2000 percent correct.

how you made these statements, ? what you saw in my natal chart.

 

[gaer]

both are correct, second one is 2000 percent correct.

how you made these statements, ? what you saw in my natal chart.

The second was a mistake. I stuck in a negative. I SHOULD have typed that with Moon in Leo, it MIGHT NOT be too bad to get a little attention.

Let me attempt to explain. There are people who will not post their charts, ever, and they really don't EVER want to be talked about. They don't want to be analyzed. They don't ever want to be the subject of any thread.

If your Moon were in Scorpio, for instance, you might never ask the kind of questions you've asked here and in at least one other thread.

BUT: Saturn conjunct Mercury is a very sober or sobering aspect. It is an aspect that to some extent might have the "grounding" or "realistic" shades of the trine or sextile, but it's much more intense and (in my opinion) is more likely to indicate shyness and lack of confidence. Saturn is also semi-sextile Sun, which I personally think has some of the same meaning of friction as the inconjunct. With Saturn so close to your MC, with Sun and Venus in Virgo, Capricorn AC, those are a lot of indications for at least possibly being good with facts, having a somewhat orderly personality, thus likeing to get your facts straight.

I read your chart as far more introverted than extroverted. Moon in Leo looosens that up a bit, emotionally, or at least that's my guess. If so, you might be surprisingly candid or open with people you know well and trust but may not appear so at all in less intimate situations.

All just guesses on my part, Dracula.

 

[stardust7]

If we were going to get really structual about this we deceive other people all the time, and ourselves.

What woman walks out the door without being caked in make-up? Isn't that deceptive?

Um, THIS woman does not walk out the door being "caked" in makeup. Neither does my best friend. I hardly wear makeup anymore on a daily basis, and even when I do, it is not "caked" on. I use makeup to enhance my natural features, not cover them up or make them seem different than what they are. I don't prefer to look like I am wearing a pound of eyeliner, it's trashy. To assume all women are deceptively trying to make themselves something they are not by applying a little lip gloss is absurd. (It also smacks of a bad attitude toward women in general. )I wear makeup these days for myself. It's fun and like playing with paints. My lips are already pink, I like to make them pinker sometimes... wouldn't it be more deceptive if I painted them black? I mean we all know lips aren't black, right? "Hey, exactly what is she trying to pull, here? Lips are not black!" LOL

What it comes down to, for me, is the intention behind the deception. Deception entails an awareness and a moral choice. Otherwise it is just "misleading." So to say that there is a negative intention or morality involved in when all women apply some mascara is ridiculous. No actually, it's not ridiculous, it's just a bad attitude toward women.

"Holy cow! She's put on her blush, beware!!! (muah-ha ha!!!!)" Please. Now I might agree with you about breast implants... then again, what is her intention? Is she trying to take down the government with her double D's?

Speaking of Nixon... that "I am not a liar" quote has the same ironic tone as your "not to be negative toward women..."

Star

 

[gaer]

Um, THIS woman does not walk out the door being "caked" in makeup.

Stardust,

You are debating a member who has not posted in well over a year!

 

[rakeshsinghal]

can you share these charts with me. i require birth data, timezone, dob,tob,pob. [deleted personal email: use PM instead - Moderator]
our current thinking is that jupiter-venus combination is responsible for deceptors, aspects as per lifescape astrology.
however before addiing this topic, we want to study correlation with more charts, as our database on this topic is bit small. your data can be kept confidential or deleted after checking above signature as per your instructions.
also please give a line as to type of deception done by these people.

good luck,
may be you yourself check this signature, but then your belief would come only if you check on large number of charts.
rakesh singhal