Dark minds..

[aquarius7000]

Hello,

Please do not continue reading, if you cannot go through serious crime-related psychology. Studying the charts of some extremely dark minds, for the sake of Astrology, it might lead us to find out if there is a common thread that runs through them, so I picked some examples at random, esp where the birth time is known. Though I have looked at quite a few charts, I will only be able to delineate a few, as it is quite time-consuming.

My Astrology is 'limited' to the use of planets and Chiron. I don't much depend on stars, so, for my part, I will leave them out, but please feel free to write about whatever you deem important in the charts.

Some common points in most charts (only some have been delineated here). Please feel free to add more charts, if you like, and put the name of the native in the Title tab of the post, so we know where to access it. Please note that these are just some commonly-noticed constellations/aspects occuring in most charts, but alot more statistical data/charts are needed to even suppose an astrological theory. Please also remember, no chart screams crime per se. Circumstances and wrong choices lead one into the arms of crime. Also, no one or two aspects make for a criminal, it is the chart as a whole that could show that the energy could be 'misused'.

1. Most charts show a connection between the Nodes and a personal planet, strangely enough, often it is to one of the lights
2. Mars (violence, sex) is often troubled through one of the outer planets: either Uranus (erraticism), Nep (lack of control), or Pluto (extreme, compulsive behaviour), which makes it more extreme in behaviour
3. At least, one of the lights (Sun, Moon) is often debilated
4. Moon is often troubled, often there is a Ura-Moon connection (dissociation), either through an aspect or through Moon in Aquarius (along with other factors), sometimes also Sat-Moon (morbidity or sadism), sometimes Pluto (obsession and destruction)
5. Fixed signs are often inhabited in the chart showing the fixedness of character, which perhaps makes them 'serial' killers

Ted Bundy: http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bundy,_Ted
The Moon (mother) in opp to Ura (strange circumstances) could account for him first being raised in a home for unwed mothers, then being made to believe that his mother was his sister. This aspect both emotionally and also astrolgically accounts for his unusual relationship with women. Saturn (father, or the person in authority) sits in the 12th house (and father is unknown, not present).
The South Node is conjunct his Mars, in opposition to his NN (path in this life), which, one could say, was his 'Karma' for this life to pull away (opposition) from violence (Mars). The Plu-Jup square shows his excessive Jup) obsession with death (Plu), and, he often killed due to his "desire to kill", as he is believed to have said. Venus (love, also peace) is detrimented in Scorpio and being retrograde (qualities cannot be lived fully and outwardly). This Venus conj his Scorp (deep and obsessive) Mer (thinking), which is also retro. The icing on the cake is his damaged Moon (emotions, Aqua and Sag Moons can be unpredictable) through its conj to his fiery (Sag) Mars (sex and violence, and he was obsessed with sex). This is heightened by Uranus' (erraticism) opp to Moon (dissociation from emotions) and Mars (erratic, violent actions). Ura-Mars (odd, imbalanced sexual desires, and he was into extreme voyeurism and p ornography) often produces sudden bouts of uncontrollable energy, which can be channelled into sports, travel, or may make the native turn violent. To carefully plan and execute this violence is finally pushed through the exact trine from Plu to Mars. Ted Bundy also had the typical aspect for voyeurism and in other ways satisfying oneself (Nep-Mars). Jup (overdoing) in Sco (sexuality) also overdosed him with that. Besides the Sag planets all his other planets (except Ura and Nep) show either through house or sign placement that he liked to engage in behind the scenes (12th house) and dark activities (Sco). The square from the 12th house (hidden) Plu (underworld and extreme) to Jup (excessiveness) in Sco (dark activities) fuelled into all this and made him grow (Jup) in the formidable (Plu) direction. Jup and Mars in mutual reception also account for excessive (Jup) violence (Mars), almost always for sexuality (Mars).

Charles Manson: http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Manson,_Charles
The Moon is in opp to the South Node (something shady about the mother, she was a prostitute and alcoholic). Moon conj NN shows that his relationship with women and his own emotions (Moon) were his Karma (NN), and boy did he live them out, though often in an abusive way (so he lived his SN to Moon stronger, along with other astro factors for this trait). The Sun is squared by Saturn, and the father was absent from his life. Pluto close to the IC could account for all the domestic violence, whilst Ura close to the ASC could account for a very unstable childhood (had several foster parents).
All that inhabited 7th house (others), then in Sco (magnetism and manipulation), coupled with Nep-Mars (charm), Mars-Ven sextile, and Ven ruling the Asc and sitting on his Sun (just a loving peronality and/or a looker), now if all that doesn't make for a charmer!! And, yes, that's how he got his 'family' together, dozens of followers, women that so easily fell in love with him, got mesmerized (plethora of Sco energy) and did all he wanted them to do (Scorp energy is given to manipulation). Moon in the 10th (public house) shows he's the people's man. Ura so close to the Asc accounts for something 'radically' different, even strange about this person. Aquarius Moon often accounts for unpredictable and unstable emotions and this in square to Mer shows that Manson's thinking (Mer) and emotions (Moon) were at loggerheads and both being in fixed signs plus angular, he could not get away from them, but acted (angular) at their beck and call, if you will. This energy was fuelled into further by Jup (excessiveness) aspecting both these planets. Again, as in the case of Bundy, we see the Nodes (hard) aspect his Moon and Mer. Also, as with Bundy, there is a lot of (sign) fixedness (not being able to get away from) in his chart through a Tau Asc, Aqua Moon, and, well, alot of Scorp energy (40% planets, all personal planets there). The Sco energy coupled with Nep-Mars could account for all the drug dealing and use. Notice that as Mars is not fuelled into by Jup, Ura or Plu, perhaps that is why he often got others (7th house) to do the dirty work for him. In that sense, one could also say that the risen Sat in 11th house (groups) made him a leader (Sat).
Later in life, while in prison, he changed into a song writer (Ven rules his chart and is sextile Nep, the muse). Perhaps the ruler of the MC (profession), Sat (also natural ruler of career), sitting in Aquarius accounts for his radical (Aqua) change in profession. Through Sat, this came later in life.

Jeffrey Dahmer: http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Dahmer,_Jeffrey
This is a very Pluto-ruled chart, with Plu risen (often when a planet is in the 10th or 11th house it is risen), afflicting many planets and Chiron (so deeply embedded wounds) that he lived out in society (Plu in the 11th house). This Plu-Chi energy is fed into further by Jup (excessiveness). A lot of 8th-house energy (the Sco ruled house, in general); along with the ruler of his 8th house, Ven, also in the 8th house (his "fascination with the macabre", as Wiki puts it) and stronger than usual through its strength in Taurus (so playing out the shady energies of the 8th house even stronger). The man ate and stored in his fridge debilated (Plu and 8th house) human organs. Ura-Moon could also account for this strange fetish, as he said that this extreme (Plu) and morbid (Sat) behaviour gave him a strange (Ura) sense of feeling close (Moon) to others. This kind of feeling and thinking to kill in order to feel close was fuelled into by a hyperactive Mars (Aries), as Mars ruled his Moon (feeling good/secure through violence) and aspecting his Mer (thinking) in the 8th house (killing). Sat so close to the IC (home) and square his Moon could account for his mother leaving him at a young age, a father that was not there, and his morbid (Sat) feelings (Moon). The Nodes, as in the other charts also, contact his personal planets, in his case, the ruler of his Asc and the 8th house, Ven, as well as his MC, his role in public. Interestingly, he has a yod going out from his first-house Nep (disillusionment, fantasy world) to Mars (sex, violence, mutilation) in the 6th and Mer (thinking) in the 8th (attitude towards the darker side of life; death in general) and this Mer further in aspect with his Plu (obsessed with his thinking about mutilation). His active Mars (also rules acids in general) could also account for his working so heavily with acid on humans, of course in combo with his 8th house. With Nep being at the tail end, his Mer and Mars acted to fulfil his fantasy world.

Anders Breivik: chart deliniated in post 14: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=397672&postcount=14


AQ7

 

[Caro]

You might want to search on the site for Bob Zemco's posts.
He highlighted some research on a murderer know as Gacy.
I believe a comparison was done between traditional and modern astrology techniques with traditional winning(Bob a traditional astrologer). Apparently modern astrologers thought he was a regular nice guy.

I have looked at some charts of recent murderers. The recent killings in Norway by Anders Breivik(an aqua sun/pisces planets) and also another one off killing by Vincent Tabak (an aqua sun with a dominant neptune in a kite fire and air) Both very intelligent it would seem. It seemed that neptune and uranus transits may have played a part in triggering events.

Also perhaps it can be useful to look at midpoints for triggers.

Is it the environment we are bought up in that shapes are chart too? in the case of Bundy I would want to know a little more about his grandfather. It sounds like he may well have been beating his wife or perhaps even have a shady past of his own.

 

[Inconjunct]

I think the problem with this kind of analysis is that serial killers are not serial killers all the time. Bundy worked on a helpline for people who were suicidal. Dahmer worked in a chocolate factory. Gacy was a children's entertainer and a pillar of his community. In my country, Fred West was a vicious murderer but also a family man and DIY enthusiast. These men would've spent more time doing their various jobs than they did killing people so would their charts show primarily that they were into DIY or murder? Is Dahmers chart that of a murderer or a chocolate maker? With all the people born on the same day and in similar latitudes to these killers, obviously they can't all be killers so can future murderous behaviour really be seen in their charts? I suspect not. I suspect what can only be discerned are those habits of mind or those emotional characteristics that might be associated with a lack of empathy or extreme risk taking behaviour etc.

I think what I'm saying is that there is a problem with this as with any astrology looking at famous/infamous people. We only think we know them, but all we know is that public face and any chart analysis is inevitably going to be put through that filter. Which means searching for objective data is difficult if not impossible.

 

[Moog]

Most charts show a connection between the Nodes and a personal planet, strangely enough, often it is to one of the lights

That's not strange.

The lunar nodes are highly important. They cause planets nearby to manifest their 'energy' in ways that are extreme and/or unusual.

When a node conjuncts a luminary, it's actually an eclipse. A dark mind = dark moon?

In the charts of all these kinds of people, I tend to look at what the nodes are doing first.

 

[Moog]

I hope this isn't seen as shameless self promotion, but I wrote a wee piece focussing on Rahu here, I think it's relevant;

http://magneticmoon.tumblr.com/post/22420385763/mutagenic-ooze

 

[Inconjunct]

That's not strange.

The lunar nodes are highly important. They cause planets nearby to manifest their 'energy' in ways that are extreme and/or unusual.

When a node conjuncts a luminary, it's actually an eclipse. A dark mind = dark moon?

In the charts of all these kinds of people, I tend to look at what the nodes are doing first.

Hmm - there are at least two lunar and between two and five solar eclipses a year. That's a lot of dark minds being created if this is the case! HIDE THE KNIVES!!

 

[Moog]

Hmm - there are at least two lunar and between two and five solar eclipses a year. That's a lot of dark minds being created if this is the case! HIDE THE KNIVES!!

Of course the rest of the chart needs to be assessed.

But yeah, the world is a weird place, full of weirdos running around doing weird ****.

 

[Moog]

A few interesting things to note about Bundy's chart.

Firstly, his Moon is crazy afflicted; It's in Scorpio, it's just coming out of it's conjunction with the sun, it's under Ketu. The Moon rules the 12th house of dreams, sleep, psychic activity, etc in this chart.

Mars is in his domicile, but in a partile conjunction with Ketu. Of course, that also means there's a tight opposition aspect from Rahu.

It would appear that his first murder took place in a Venus/Jupiter/Rahu Bukti.

Both Benefics are cadent in the 3rd, though Venus is in her domicile.

Both Moon/Mars/Ketu (and Sun and Mercury) are angular (4th) so expressing strongly. Afflicted and strong probably isn't a good thing. Like giving a lunatic a nuclear device.

Those are the highlights, but you can keep piling stuff in. That 4th house is pretty messy, Mercury in there really isn't a good thing at all... Saturn in the 12th is, no doubt, a factor...

 

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

I've only really looked into this in passing, but it seems to really come down to fixed stars being in the right places, especially in relation to house cusps. I'll do a little list of Ted Bundy's here.

MC conjunct Rucha in Cassiopeia. This little section of the sky is associated with difficulties with women early in life, especially the mother. Also the vanity and greed of the Queen is shown here.

12th house cusp conjunct Procyon in Canis Minor. This is a very violent star being associated with the dog's mouth instead of it's heart like many alpha stars. There's a long list of violent and negative associations with the star, as well as some positive ones having to do with strategy and intellegence due to it's Mercury/Mars temperament.

Ascendant conjunct Al Jabbah in Leo. Another violent star likened to Saturn and Mercury. Leads one to intemperance and violence and to being killed by soldiers. Oddly appropriate given he was executed in prison.

IC conjunct Zuben Elgenubi, the Southern Scale in Libra. A wholly malevolent star likened to Saturn and Mars and was anciently associated with the claws of Scorpio. Gives rise to violence, unforgiving characters, lying, crime, and - get this - Ebertin says the star gives an immortal name, but often through acts of tragedy.

His Eighth house is conjunct the star Archenar which is really a very positive star which has to do with success in politics or religion.

Bundy also has some fitting stars conjoined to some of his planets, but I just wanted to highlight the house cusp ones.

 

[Caro]

According to the write up on astro dienst, he was very successful in politics.(which is interesting)

 

[Moog]

As for Dahmer, I don't have a lot of time right now to look into his chart but I think Venus is very important. It seems his crimes were motivated more by a twisted idea of love, than hate, anger or what have you.

Venus in Aries/8th, very tight trine aspect from Rahu in the 12th. Venus also rules the 2nd, which is significant for the mouth (eating weird ****; ie. cannibalism)

 

[Inconjunct]

To be honest Moog, I think the psychological evidence shows that serial killers are all depressingly the same: hopelessly inadequate sociopaths whose crimes are all about power, anger and hate. Dahmer kept bits of his victims to own them, as if they were objects, not because of any feelings of love, however warped.

 

[Moog]

To be honest Moog, I think the psychological evidence shows that serial killers are all depressingly the same: hopelessly inadequate sociopaths whose crimes are all about power, anger and hate. Dahmer kept bits of his victims to own them, as if they were objects, not because of any feelings of love, however warped.

Okiedokie.

There was also the sexual deviancy that would be symbolised there of course.

 

[aquarius7000]

Re: Dark minds.. Anders Breivik

Hello

I think the problem with this kind of analysis is that serial killers are not serial killers all the time.....With all the people born on the same day and in similar latitudes to these killers, obviously they can't all be killers so can future murderous behaviour really be seen in their charts? I suspect not....I think what I'm saying is that there is a problem with this as with any astrology looking at famous/infamous people. We only think we know them, but all we know is that public face and any chart analysis is inevitably going to be put through that filter. Which means searching for objective data is difficult if not impossible.

Yes, you are very right and in agreement with what I said in my initial-most post also (in Italics). Planets have energies and represent certain traits. When they connect through aspects, energies meet/get transfered. What each individual does with the same energy is left to him. As you can see, most of these people have normal jobs, too, behind the veil of which they perhaps hide, and which is their way to get into society. Native A with a Ura-Mars (a normally short-circuit energy, also speed) and Plu (destruction, also focus) can use it for winning Formula 1 (remaining focused on winning through speed); whilst Native B (Anders Breivik) might thrill in hurting others with that explosive energy by sending off bombs, as he did!! It is energy, how you use it could be determined through one's own personality, upbriniging or lack of it, (no) social/family structure, present circumstances, etc. The fact is that a Uranus-Mars aspect poses more of a 'threat' in regard to sudden (Ura) violence (Mars)/ strange actions as compared to a Nep-Ven aspect. Again, a singular Ura-Mars doesn't generate a criminal, there's much more in the chart to show that, and that is the whole purpose of this exercise to discover that common thread, if possible. Still, no two individuals, even neighbours having the exact similar birth stats will enjoy similar emotional
upbringing, etc, so they will again harness and deploy the same planetary energies differently.

Anders Breivik: http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Breivik,_Anders
There are no houses to go by due to no TOB. However, what hits the eye is the highly aspected Mars through Ura, Nep and Plu (#2 of lead post). Well, a Mars-Ura-Plu is really very high-voltage energy, which perhaps accounted for most of his destructive actions. I read somewhere that a person with this similar aspect changed his normal sales career into becoming someone, who crushed (using machinery, of course) automobiles that were turned in as old and worthless, in order to find his fulfilment. Point is that he was engaged in some form of destruction/recycling (Plu-Mars).

We cannot discern the Moon's proximity to the Nodes in his chart (to support #1 of the lead post), as with the other charts afore, due to lack of TOB. However, as we see here, too, the lights are damaged (#3 of lead post) due to Sun's placement in Aqua (individual, even aloof personality) further alienated by Ura-Sun (which tells him he has to be different) with the alienation (Ura) coming through violent action (Mars) that used its energy to destroy (Plu). Nep-Mars confused his actions, as Nep says, you are 'other-worldly' and special, so perhaps he had his own warped reality in life (Mars in proximity to his Sun). The Sat-Moon (#4 of lead post) conj could show his lack of emotions, as they said he came across in the trial (remorseless). His active Aqua Mer is square Ura (thinking differently to put this mildly) and aspected by Plu (obsession, careful planning). Again, though we do not his Asc, he has 3 of 5 personal planets in a fixed sign (Aqua) and Jup also in a fixed sign (Leo) validating #5 of the lead post.


AQ7

PS: Interesting contributions about the Nodes and the Stars.

 

[Caro]

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41932&highlight=murder

details of Vincent Tabak

 

[Moog]

Venus in Aries/8th, very tight trine aspect from Rahu in the 12th. Venus also rules the 2nd, which is significant for the mouth (eating weird ****; ie. cannibalism)

I had a day off, so I expanded those two lines into a blog post. Maybe I was a wee bit quote happy.

I forgot to really mention the cannibalism.

 

[Caro]

Moog
what are you saying here - that the north node /Rahu is the 'baddie'.
I was thinking that was the SN?
you have turned my thinking on its head.
I would have thought that to have planets conj the north node would amplimfy them - make it easier to meet your life purpose but you are saying that it is effectively a malefic even with a positive planet like venus?

 

[Moog]

Moog
what are you saying here - that the north node /Rahu is the 'baddie'.
I was thinking that was the SN?
you have turned my thinking on its head.
I would have thought that to have planets conj the north node would amplimfy them - make it easier to meet your life purpose but you are saying that it is effectively a malefic even with a positive planet like venus?

There's a lot of debate about it.

It seems that in traditional Indian scripture, both are regarded as simply flat out malefic.

Some have pointed to a cultural bias in perception of the nodes. India is, or was, a culture that deeply values tradition, and Rahu is definitely a tradition breaker.

Some say that Rahu operates well with certain planets, like Mercury, and some include Venus.

I believe that dr. farr has said that he feels Rahu is generally benefic. Rahu certainly can drive people in certain ways that can be positive, especially in terms of material success.

I tend to think that everything has pros and cons. Rahu with Venus can amplify artistic talents, but also amplify proclivity to drug and alcohol abuse and such.

All we can really do is check out the claims, dissect a lot of charts, and see.

 

[aquarius7000]

Hi,

Not wanting to go off on a tangent here, but I think that Indian/Vedic Astrology and Western Astrology differ on the meaning they assisgn to the nodes somewhat. In Indian Astrology, as can be deciphered from Moog's posts and I have seen this in the posts of Vedic Astrologers, as well as read about it, both the nodes spell trouble.

As always with Astrology, there is mythology behind it, and, so, there is a very interesting story behind the Hindu version of Rahu and Ketu. A rather succinct version of it is that the two Nodes represent the head (Rahu) and body (Ketu) of a demonic body that appeared in the guise of a deity to get the elixir of immortality, which was being distributed by Lord Vishnu (Preserver) of The Trinity amongst the deities. This demon was spotted by the Sun and the Moon, and was then beheaded by Lord Vishnu. Hence, the nodes have more of an inauspicious touch to themselves in Vedic Astrology.

Though I practise Western Astrology, in most charts, the matters of the house the nodes are placed in do seem to pose a challenge in some way.

AQ7

 

[aquarius7000]

Hi,

Just wondering if the chart of Anneliese Michel, the famous case from Bavaria, Germany, of being possessed has every been studied on this forum.

Though hers is not a case of a criminal mind, but it is very much of a highly disturbed one, due to which she harmed herself a lot.

Her story can be read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Michel

Unfortunately, due to the unavailability of her birth time, we can only do a chart without houses. However, her Venus and Moon astrologically reflect alot of what she suffered, being beleagured/ aspected by the outer planets, which shows how much damage the latter can do. Venus is particularly interesting in her case due to her natal stellium in Libra.

AQ7