Confusing chart, Requesting assistance

Robb

Member
hello there fellow mortals, i was curious about my birthchart, id love to get a good reading if you have the time,

I have a stellium, and two conjuncts, not to mention everything is in a couple houses. ha.

5th house scorpio has the stellium and mercury off to the side,
my pluto and sun share the exact same degree, is that bad or good?

either way i've always had a deep feeling that im not quite built for living in this world. Frustration and dissappointment seems to follow me, but whenever i give up and give in to instinct to see how things turn out, something clicks and i solve problems and do things i never thought i could possibly think of or come up with.

I've lived a lonely life, not by choice, but because i've never known any other way to live. When i was in elementary, i would stand up for the picked on kid, only to be picked on myself. Alienated and misunderstood, would be a good description of how things typically seem to turn out every time i try and move on to another part of my life. I by no means mean to drag anybody down with another pity story, i simply want to understand the deck of cards ive been dealt, so i can understand myself at least a bit more, and learn to turn the negative into positive.

I have a deep fascination with the occult, alchemy, hermetics, kabblah, tarot, and anything of that nature and will find myself devoting all my time into these studies if im not careful.

Id love to have someone read my chart, and see their perspective on this. Something i've learned along the way is that by looking through someone elses eyes, i am able to see myself more clearly.
 

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waybread

Well-known member
Rob, a couple of things jumped out at me about your chart.

One is that you have Cancer rising, with Chiron in the first house. This gives you an extremely sensitive personality to all kinds of slights and disrespectful behaviour from other people. Chiron is a little planetoid that shows us "where it hurts;" but where, with patience, we gain a lot of wisdom and compassion for other people--because we've got personal experience with their situation. Cancer rising is the person who is apt to retreat behind his shell, because it is so much safer behind the shell then it is to risk having one's feelings hurt by other people.

Yet risking your emotional vulnerability and knowing that you are strong enough to survive hurt feelings is where your growth lies.

The other thing I noticed is your Scorpio sun conjunct Pluto. This gives you a huge amount of depth and intensity.

I don't know what your vocation is in life or whether you have the means to continue your education, but I think you would make an excellent child psychologist. To do this, you would need a minimum of a Master's degree, but if you can pursue your studies, I think you could help a lot of children living with emotional pain.

If the university isn't your favourite place, or you are already happily settled in another type of vocation, see if there are comparable options for you, such as volunteering with troubled youth or working at a boys' ranch.

(Stellium and sun in 5th house of children, Aquarius moon in the 7th, NN in the 6th house of service.)
 

Krewster

Well-known member
Perhaps tune-in to your:

1. slew of quintiles between Sun/Mars/Pluto and Moon/Sat; and


2. Octo-Zoid (formed by Ven 45 Mars being so parallel to Merc 90 Jup that "red" octile aspects sew up the ends, and semi-octile aspects form crossbeams), all in a trapezoid shaped config.
 

Robb

Member
Krewster- tuning into it has been a long process, but ill try and focus on the areas you pointed out and see where it takes me. thank you.

waybread -Yes, i feel my scorpio came out earlier in my childhood, my cancer grew a tail and it was really good at stinging, more out of necessity then anything else.

assisting children has come up many times in my mind in the past, and ive never really pieced it all together untill i began reading my chart. My interpretation of the 5th house before you said something was that of my creations, not phisical-creations, but the creations of my mind. I've contemplated many different ways i could manifest something that would assist humanity, make it less hostile and nasty. Have it continue to teach humans to be more gentle and understanding, even after my passing.

But no, i hadnt considered DIRECTLY assisting children through their issues. As a young child I dealt with bullies and rejects lashing out. I knew something however that made every choice i made difficult, that it wasnt the children responsible for their actions. they were sponges, learning from and encouraged by their parents and community to be who they were. It wasnt right, but i always had to stand up for myself and fight the 'enemy' that wasn't the enemy.

I've always thought my contribution would be something that helps the OUTER, underlying issue that brings many issues within children to the surface. By focusing my attention on the creators of the problems.

As i read your post, it occured to me that the elders will eventually die, doing everything in their power to continue their distorted legacy through the children, or next generation. but the kids are still learning, soaking up more and more. perhaps if they were to learn to choose out of the chaos, into something better, then this sick 'legacy' will crumble.

Directly teaching and working with kids could help the community as a whole take a left turn, and not look back. As much as i hate to admit it, adults have solidified their opinions, stereotypes, and hates. and it will be much more difficult if not impossible to sway their already made up mind.

Gives me much to think about. thank you
 

sworm09

Well-known member
either way i've always had a deep feeling that im not quite built for living in this world. Frustration and dissappointment seems to follow me, but whenever i give up and give in to instinct to see how things turn out, something clicks and i solve problems and do things i never thought i could possibly think of or come up with.

2 of the Triplicity rulers of the luminary, the Moon are are difficult positions. Mercury is in the 6th sign, in detriment and cadent, so that's a challenge in itself. Mercury is in the 5th house suggesting a connection between your wellbeing in this life and 5th house things like playful activities, pleasure, and loves. Usually this would be a good sign, but Mercury is in detriment showing quite a bit of disorganized activity here. You mentioned feeling alienated; that cuts down on ALOT of the pleasures you could have experienced or could experience as you're still in the part of your life ruled by Mercury.

Mercury is square Jupiter (the 2nd Triplicity ruler) who is in Fall. A square from Jupiter would be good, especially with reception, but Mercury is in detriment and Jupiter is in detriment as well, they've got nothing to offer each other. Jupiter rules the 6th house of labor and is in the 2nd house of money; this really shows working hard and having it not really pay off. The Mercury-Jupiter square is a source of frustration in this chart.

The 3rd Triplicity ruler is Saturn, who is in the 7th house, angular and conjunct the Moon. That's an emotional commitment. The positioning of this in Aquarius along with Mercury's sextile to the Moon/Saturn conjunction is probably the source of that "figuring it out" tendency. It may also give the feelings of alienation that you discussed, as well as the interest in the occult (note that the Moon rules your Asc).
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The bright side is that Moon/Saturn in the 7th house may reap rewards in the last part of your life, in your older age. Even now it benefits you through maturity and endurance.

The Moon/Saturn conjunction in Aquarius is also angular from the Part of Fortune (in the 10th from it) which also bodes well for you with time.

I also have to add, Saturn is very important in this chart as the dispositor of your Ascendant ruler. Of course with Saturn, all gains come very slowly and the younger years are usually very difficult.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Uh, thanks, Robb-- but as a woman in my 60s, I wonder if you think of my cohort as a bunch of dynsfunctional "elders."

Creativity, BTW, is not the exclusive territory of the 5th house.
 

Robb

Member
By no means meant to insult, i love elder people, i was directing my thoughts towards the roots of the problem which is NEVER the children. I understand each house has many different aspects, a major focus for ME is creation however, and expressing myself through such creations in as large a way as possible. The way i see the 5th house is "anything that bears your personal stamp", and i like to make those stamps,(just not babies...)

obviously one would have to live my life and see through my eyes to understand just how much creativity and self-expression means to me, and by reading other peoples ideas on my chart i see how different they see things then i do. which is good, sometimes i need to break out of my mind to see something else entirely.

I've never related to people my age, and always chose the deep adult conversations over my age-group, thus i'd think that i would be one of those dysfunctional "elders" along with you guys. simply because i've always felt old, even when young.

When i look at my chart, i see the 5th house as creation and expression, simply because that sticks out for me. and i see myself as still too young to even consider having children yet, so i decide that instead of babies, it will mean creativity for me untill the moment i decided to HAVE a baby, much further down in the future.
 

Robb

Member
2 Mercury is in the 5th house suggesting a connection between your wellbeing in this life and 5th house things like playful activities, pleasure, and loves. Usually this would be a good sign, but Mercury is in detriment showing quite a bit of disorganized activity here.

I also have to add, Saturn is very important in this chart as the dispositor of your Ascendant ruler. Of course with Saturn, all gains come very slowly and the younger years are usually very difficult.

YES, Disorganised, this is a big part of it, i know its all there, and i could write a REALLY good book, that I can easily market and make good money off of, that would inspire, teach, and tutor people. All the information is in my head, its just jumbled around, and i have difficulty pouring it out onto paper. thank you, you pointed out things i haven't noticed. Like jupiter, it was in the second house of money, but whats getting in the way? disorganised mercury over there causin mischief, ha!
 

Marinka

Well-known member
With Sun, Mars, and Pluto conjunct in the 5th house, I'm not sure I would recommend any work with children - this can be a manipulative combination and while it might be not be in your case, I would maybe recommend looking at either the creativity or the speculation side of this house rather than contact with children ... just my 2 cents. Note that this is just an observation from looking at just this one configuration in your chart - this interpretation could be modified by other configurations which have not been looked at.

Both Moon and Saturn are in Aquarius and are conjunct. Just a conjunction between these two could make the emotions very practical, add in the Aquarius and there may be a detachment emotionally.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Marinka, I respectfully disagree. Robb doesn't seem like a manipulative person to me, but rather one with deep-seated compassion for vulnerable children. The ruler of Robb's MC/10th house cusp is Mars, which is exceptionally strong in its own sign of Scorpio, and located in the 5th house. Aquarius is the modern ruler of psychology; and in the 7th house, it should be good for one-on-one counseling situations.

I personally think the association of the 5th house with creativity has to be unpacked a little. First of all just about any house can be associated with creativity. A strong 9th house person might be a creative theologian; a strong second house person might be a creative financial genius. Then Venus (and I think Neptune) are strongly associated with the fine arts; Mercury-Venus or Mercury-Neptune might inciate a good writer.

The association of the 5th house with creativity might come from its association with leisure activities such as the theatre (and as the house of re-creation.) But we can look at all kinds of charts of famous creative people and find no particular 5th house emphasis.

Sun-Pluto doesn't have to be manipulative if the person is self-aware.
 

kshantaram

Premium Member
sun-mars scorpio highest planetary deg, occult and research aptitudes, forensic medicine, secretive, sentimental, reserved. sun-mars conj energetic, prone to anger and irritation perhaps.

moon-sat acq 7th, saturn own quadrant, growth and riches through mass leadership, supervisory roles, public admin perhaps, aptitude for economics, technology. acq airy, uncertain, mystique, reformist, innovative.

moon-sat lords 1/7 conj seeking union in relationship-marriage, saturn delaying, settling life at 36+ as thumb rule.


rahu the node sag 6th, ambitious, impulsive, able to cope with challenges.

ketu the other node over gemini 12th, hyper-analytical perhaps, to avoid paralysis by analysis. could be good at information processing, information technology.


9th lord jup over virgo 2nd earnings through speech, advisory roles, critical thinking, perfectionist. lord mercury over sag 5th in exchange, tending to prosperity-luck through intellectual pursuits.

venus own libra 3rd, charming communications and writings, presentations, public relations, singing voice-dance, artistic tastes.

pars fortuna over taurus 10th, luck through creative pursuits, hotel-hospitality industry perhaps. cancer asc sensitive and perceptive.

fixed taurus inimical for movable cancer asc, tending to stress-delays in income-gains-friendships.


may be marketing-market research for the hospitality industry, growing as future CEO leading-supervising large number of people, may be training-reforming people through personal charm, able to go to depths of psychology, could think of training and organisation dev roles in hospitality industry perhaps involving research and diagnosis of individual-team behaviours, organisation culture, etc, leading growth through organisation dev interventions known as OD. could study MBA-hr/personnel management.

hope generic observations-inputs help pick as relevant, hope find useful reflections. could share specific feedbacks.

wishing well,

kshantaram
 
Mars /Pluto /Sun in Scorpio conjunct in the 5th house.This to me is an aspect that I wouldnt like to see use wrongly.I hope that you use this energy in a way that doesnt build up anger within yourself that creates a timebomb. This aspect also can connect back to the father. Maybe sport or a hobby that you can become obsessed with would alleivate this energy that is in your chart.
Your Cancer Ascendant is in the decante of cancer / pisces hence you feel for the underdog , misunderstood and alone ,maybe feeling pity for your self.
Moon conjunct Saturn is another back up reflection of how you feel.When Saturn aspects another planet in your chart it makes it cold.Both planets in Aquarius can give you the independent aloneness and detachment. Depressed emotions.maybe mother comes into the picture.
 

Marinka

Well-known member
Marinka, I respectfully disagree. Robb doesn't seem like a manipulative person to me, but rather one with deep-seated compassion for vulnerable children.

Sun-Pluto doesn't have to be manipulative if the person is self-aware.

The Sun/Mars/Pluto configuration in the 5th would be getting squares from the 8th, 2nd and oppositions from the 11th - this would be from transits. The 11th and the 2nd would not be concerning whereas, the 8th would be somewhat troubling as to how it would manifest since this would be bringing together the house of sex and the 5th of children. I have noted only one interpretation though, there are others... such as tax issues due to gambling revenues not reported to name just one.

One transit has already occurred by a heavy planet and that was by Uranus. Pluto will start making squares around 2032 to this configuration. Jupiter would have also made this square a few years ago -- 2009 to be exact and will make another in 2021.

As to whether this person is manipulative or not (as you stated) -- hard to tell from a short internet conversation.

Also, being manipulative is not necessarily a bad characteristic, in many professions, it is desirable and rewarded. CEOs of companies are very good at manipulating people. Policemen are also good at manipulating situations - they have to as their safety depends on it. Gamblers are good at reading other people and intimidating other players. Comedians and actors also fall into professions that require manipulation of other people's emotions. Another area would be stock market analysis - very much a 5th house activity dealing with speculation.

To restate, a child psychologist would not be a profession that I would suggest with this type of chart.
 

waybread

Well-known member
I disagree. We have to assume that Robb is telling the truth, or something close to it, in what he wrote. Each planetary configuration can have a positive manifestation if the person has used it wisely, or even a kind of collateral one, with the transference described in the OP.

Note what Robb wanted to share about himself in the OP:
When i was in elementary, i would stand up for the picked on kid, only to be picked on myself....
This precisely describes a different manifestation of the Mars-sun-Pluto conjunction than the one you described. No doubt Robb has more empowerment to get to (as we all do) with his horoscope, but we cannot read some kind of evil domination here if it is entirely at odds with how he expressed his conjunction manifesting.

The 5th is not the house of sex per se, but of "lite" love affairs. The genitals are ruled by the 8th house, which is where sexuality belongs, IMO. This is what you've said, but have done so to imply Robb is a pedophile. Is this really what you mean?

We might just as well consider the 8th as the "house of death" making him a likely counselor for children with life-threatening illnesses. I mean, how far do you want to take this?

The 5th in general is the house of recreation (leisure, amusements) which is why gambling belongs here. However, many non-gamblers have 5th house concentrations: their recreational activities are different. A heavy planet opposed to a 5th house planet, or the ruler of the 5th poorly placed argues against gambling.
Light Love affairs fit into the recreation category in past centuries; vs. marriage in the 7th.

BTW, I have 3 5th house planets; 4 of them in some house systems.
 
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Marinka

Well-known member
I disagree. We have to assume that Robb is telling the truth, or something close to it, in what he wrote. Each planetary configuration can have a positive manifestation if the person has used it wisely, or even a kind of collateral one, with the transference described in the OP.

Note what Robb wanted to share about himself in the OP:
This precisely describes a different manifestation of the Mars-sun-Pluto conjunction than the one you described. No doubt Robb has more empowerment to get to (as we all do) with his horoscope, but we cannot read some kind of evil domination here if it is entirely at odds with how he expressed his conjunction manifesting.

The 5th is not the house of sex per se, but of "lite" love affairs. The genitals are ruled by the 8th house, which is where sexuality belongs, IMO. This is what you've said, but have done so to imply Robb is a pedophile. Is this really what you mean?

We might just as well consider the 8th as the "house of death" making him a likely counselor for children with life-threatening illnesses. I mean, how far do you want to take this?

The 5th in general is the house of recreation (leisure, amusements) which is why gambling belongs here. However, many non-gamblers have 5th house concentrations: their recreational activities are different. A heavy planet opposed to a 5th house planet, or the ruler of the 5th poorly placed argues against gambling.
Light Love affairs fit into the recreation category in past centuries; vs. marriage in the 7th.

BTW, I have 3 5th house planets; 4 of them in some house systems.

I never assume anything ... you can if you like. I really don't think that people come here and are totally truthful in their posts - there will always be a bit of twisting and weaving of the truth with the off-truth. If you look at the charts, you can usually spot signs. But, in the end, does it matter? Not really - people will be who they are supposed to be as identified from their natal chart & transits.

If you have read my post you would have noticed that I said that this configuration will be getting squares from planets that transit into the 8th house which is the house typically associated with sex. You would now have a planet in the 8th (sex) making a square to the configuration in the 5th (children). As I stated, this is only 1 interpretation out of many.

I did not say that the 5th was the house of sex -- not sure where you got that?

We simply disagree on whether this is a chart that should be doing in-depth counseling with children and we can leave it at that.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Where did you learn that transiting squares from the 8th house are "typically associated with sex"???

Robb doesn't have natal planets in the 8th house, and his traditional 8th house ruler is Saturn, so I don't see your concerns as probable. All of us have 8th house transits that come and go; and they are just as likely to deal with investments as with sexuality.

Marinka, if you read my post carefully, you will see that I think you correctly associated the 8th with sex, vs. the 5th

There are key words and concepts that can be fruitfully applied to a horoscope that explain how an individual experiences his chart placements. When these show up meaningfully in an OP, I pay attention. For instance, Pluto can indicate a dynamic of bullying; and Mars can be a combative champion on behalf of a person or cause. With the sun involved, we see how Robb identified himself with the bullying situation he described.

So now you're implying that Robb is untruthful and a pedophile??????

Curiouser and curiouser.
 
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Robb,

Your chart indicates too much heavy, raw energy;high drive, ambition; hard temper, rage, possible ruthlessness. I think it possible that you have a very heavy family psychological inheritance, and I also think it possible that you've been suppressing that energy (which is helped by the Moon-Saturn conjunction) instead of externalizing it. If so, it can become a time bomb.

Given the predominance of water in your chart, emotional self-control (which is also a characteristic of Mars-Pluto aspect, although it sounds contradictory) and detachment, I think it possible that you'd fare well in the field of psychology.

In any case, you have too much energy which needs an outlet. Being in the 5th House, I think you could make good use of this energy using it creatively, perhaps becoming an actor or a sportsman.
 

Robb

Member
This has led into an interesting direction, so may as well make a couple things clear, ive always been interested in older women as a young teen, and the women on my life now are all older, so theres that. Certain kinds of people would do well to avoid me(pedophiles for one), as i am protective, much more so for children and people who have difficulty standing up for themselves. This protectiveness hasnt always worked out too well for my phisical well-being, but that never seemed a deterrent for me before.
And what you said IS true, that i can say whatever i'd like and you cant really take my word for it because you dont know me, BUT i like to think everybody on this site is going through a process of personal transformation and i never assume the worst. i liked kshantaram's read, It pointed out the positive, and eventual-positive aspects.
Negative issues are less-so important, though it makes a condensed energy with witch to avoid, BUT with failure comes a lesson, and that lesson is what i think should be added to the condensed negative observation in reads(My perspective on the matter). which allows the person in the chart to SEE this issue, and instead of walking blindly into it, learn the lesson beforehand and not have to FAIL before learning it.
For example, kshantaram's quote,

"ketu the other node over gemini 12th, hyper-analytical perhaps, to avoid paralysis by analysis. could be good at information processing, information technology."

Hyper-analysis, one of my issues, can get my mind wrapped up in things. like stuck in a box, BUT there is positive results in having this, as in i attempt to see things from all angles, refuse to see things the way its shown to me, instead attempt to learn for myself. He provided a good outlet for this sometimes frustrating quality, I DO love to gather information, destroy the old outdated information, absorb the new delicious info.

I have intense energies associated with my chart, and i appreciate the contributions made in attempting to read it. Its given me a lot to think about, especially when i decide i want to try and read others charts as well.

Much like in energetic work (I am a massage therapist) when the energy centers of the body get plugged up or out of sync, negativity manifests. Negativity manifests because the person (usually unknowingly) brings it upon himself. With the birth chart these VAGUE powerful energies more often then not get caught up in specifics, which is why it seems people say things like you'd PROBABLY do well or not-so-well in this AREA or that instead of dont do this or that. providing outlets i feel are as useful as the identification of negative qualities. But the 'sex' and 'children' connection isn't really going to get me anywhere, sadly. and id rather not put those energies together.
neither would i assume anything of that sort with any other chart, if i was attempting to read a prisoners chart, or someone that i was unsure of then flags perhaps would go up. but we dont know each other, theres no benifit for any of us to bring this up.
 

Marinka

Well-known member
Where did you learn that transiting squares from the 8th house are "typically associated with sex"???

Robb doesn't have natal planets in the 8th house, and his traditional 8th house ruler is Saturn, so I don't see your concerns as probable. All of us have 8th house transits that come and go; and they are just as likely to deal with investments as with sexuality.

Marinka, if you read my post carefully, you will see that I think you correctly associated the 8th with sex, vs. the 5th

There are key words and concepts that can be fruitfully applied to a horoscope that explain how an individual experiences his chart placements. When these show up meaningfully in an OP, I pay attention. For instance, Pluto can indicate a dynamic of bullying; and Mars can be a combative champion on behalf of a person or cause. With the sun involved, we see how Robb identified himself with the bullying situation he described.

So now you're implying that Robb is untruthful and a pedophile??????

Curiouser and curiouser.


I am not implying anything - it seems to me that is what you are doing. As I noted, many interpretations are possible for configurations that would happen in future transits.

Also, as I vaguely remember, you do not engage in predictive work -- that would be against your religious beliefs ....

Robb -- sorry that your thread was hijacked .. it happens sometimes.
 
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