Compare charts of these 2 murder victims

Berry

Member
Both were murdered out of the blue by complete strangers. Neither were involved in a "life of crime." Both were minding their own business when killed by a criminal at random. What do their charts have in common? I heard for violent and sudden deaths to check the 12th and 8th houses, but neither of these men have anything in their 12th house and only the first has a planet in his 8th. In fact, their charts look opposite to one another.

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Berry

Member
Nobody? Because I really would like to know what the commonality is besides me. The first chart is my biological father, the second chart is my foster father. Somehow I have been stuck with the incredible bad luck to have lost two fathers to murder. So you see, I want someone who can think objectively to look at these charts.

I tried to look at them but then I got overwhelmed.

As for me, I have Mars in my 12th which someone said meant violence coming to males in my life. I am worried for what this means to a future husband or son.
 
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Kernowerno

Well-known member
You'd need the charts for time of death - and preferably their exact times of birth for accurate house placements etc. If you'd expect to see similarities between their charts because they were both murdered at random, that would be asking a bit much I think. If you had the charts of two (identical) twins, one of which was murdered at random, you'd have an interesting situation to look at.
 

Kernowerno

Well-known member
...As for me, I have Mars in my 12th which someone said meant violence coming to males in my life. I am worried for what this means to a future husband or son.

Goodness me, I'm very sorry to hear of your misfortune. I think perhaps your own chart might also be important to see for the more experienced astrologers here. I would completely understand your concerns if that's what you've had indicated to you. Better wait for a more thoroughly informed assessment.
 

Marinka

Well-known member
Astrology is predictive when the natal chart is combined with transits, progressions, and solar arcs to name just a few. The natal chart is static -- it takes the current configurations to initiate occurrences.
 

Akkabane

Well-known member
both charts have 8th lord in the 1st house

8th is the unknown and 1st represents body

unknown death via injury to the body

the one who have that aries asc prob died with bullet or anything sudden most of the ones who have that placement died via assasination. since its mars its probably a sudden death.

the second (libra asc) prob died because of wealth. maybe someone is after that wealth or jealous of that wealth.
 

Marinka

Well-known member
both charts have 8th lord in the 1st house

You may not have noticed -- the first chart is a hypothetical time.

As far as I see, the 2nd chart (posted) has Venus (ruler of 8th) in the 2nd .. maybe you are using different house system ...
 

hermetic

Well-known member
Berry, this is really unfortunate and quite sad:sad: May I ask what is the state of Sun in your natal horoscope?

In the first chart I see a very powerful aspect of Mars square Saturn, along with mars Pluto contact it's the strongest aspect connected to violence. It is often found in charts of both victims and murderers, if you'd believe it.
Also Sun(self) is combined with Uranus(sudden) squared from Neptune that is normally associated with 12th house, this is a very stressed Sun, and one needs to account for Sun when looking at potential for longevity as it represents life force. Sun here has fallen under effect of two transsaturns that are usually unpredictable and negative in influence.
But since there is no accurate birth time no way to see the houses and discuss more.

In second chart again Sun is stressed, there is above mentioned Mars Pluto square, and it involves the sun, and Venus ruler of 8th house and first house(physical body) is in exact square from Uranus, sudden event which we have no control over. Usually when Uranus is combined with 8th house or it's ruler, the death of native is sudden and unexpected.

For cases like these, there is no need to look for similar aspects, but you need to know how to delineate charts in regarding to this. Once you've written their fates one can easily pinpoint what led to these, further with solars/progressions more evidence of it can certainly be found. Yet no everyone with endangered sun, mars pluto saturn aspects becomes a victim. What I see as similar in both charts is simply the fact that Sun has no way out, no easy aspect to relieve the situation only hard aspect that make the events only go the bad way.
 

Inline

Well-known member
.....The first chart is my biological father, the second chart is my foster father. Somehow I have been stuck with the incredible bad luck to have lost two fathers to murder. So you see, I want someone who can think objectively to look at these charts....

Hi Berry,

I understand your worries. I've experienced this type of repetitive fate in children who've been adopted or fostered, before...

My mother was fostered for 4 years and finally adopted at 4yrs old. What's interesting is that her biological parents and her adopted parents were the same age, same immigrant heritage, even the same sun signs. Her dads were capricorn and mothers, aquarians. But the repetition didn't stop there....her biological mother abondoned her, and then her adoptive mother abandoned her to alcohol. Both mothers were complete let downs....it was as if she couldn't escape this fate.

What happened next though, was postive....she found a good man and she put all her energy into founding and protecting her now solid family.

I don't believe that your fate will necessarily repeat again, but i'm sorry you had to experience this... i wish much good luck in the future.
 

Berry

Member
both charts have 8th lord in the 1st house

8th is the unknown and 1st represents body

unknown death via injury to the body

the one who have that aries asc prob died with bullet or anything sudden most of the ones who have that placement died via assasination. since its mars its probably a sudden death.

the second (libra asc) prob died because of wealth. maybe someone is after that wealth or jealous of that wealth.

Wow, you are amazing. The first was not a bullet but a sudden assassination, the chart does not have a time, so this was very close even without the time.

You are exactly right about the second one he was shot by two black men to rob him. They were caught on camera minutes later trying to use his credit cards.
 
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Berry

Member
Hi Berry,

I understand your worries. I've experienced this type of repetitive fate in children who've been adopted or fostered, before...it was as if she couldn't escape this fate.

What happened next though, was postive....she found a good man and she put all her energy into founding and protecting her now solid family.

Thank you for sharing your story. It was good to hear of someone with a comparable background.
 

EsmerSilver

Active member
The first chart has all ingridients to be a murder victim(that said not all of you are going to be murdered who happen to have the same aspects)
, Mars Sq Saturn Violence from authority figures
Mars Opp Chiron Insecure with one's masculinity or physical strength.
Mars conj uranus- random sprouts of energy and aggression
Mars Sq Neptune- Invasion of physical boundaries by others. Usually seen in victims of physical abuse and violence.

That and unfortunate tranists, seem to have been the case.
Curious, did the owner of the 2nd chart die protecting something or withdrawing money from the bank?
 

Berry

Member
Yes, the 2nd man was a cab driver who died in a robbery. He handed them his wallet, but he always kept his wallet empty and kept his money in his back pocket. He had been saving up for his youngest daughters college graduation, he was going to buy her a gift and take the whole family out to dinner.

What in his chart points to that?

The first chart has all ingridients to be a murder victim(that said not all of you are going to be murdered who happen to have the same aspects)
, Mars Sq Saturn Violence from authority figures
Mars Opp Chiron Insecure with one's masculinity or physical strength.
Mars conj uranus- random sprouts of energy and aggression
Mars Sq Neptune- Invasion of physical boundaries by others. Usually seen in victims of physical abuse and violence.

That and unfortunate tranists, seem to have been the case.
Curious, did the owner of the 2nd chart die protecting something or withdrawing money from the bank?
 

EsmerSilver

Active member
Yes, the 2nd man was a cab driver who died in a robbery. He handed them his wallet, but he always kept his wallet empty and kept his money in his back pocket. He had been saving up for his youngest daughters college graduation, he was going to buy her a gift and take the whole family out to dinner.

What in his chart points to that?
His eight house ruler is in his 2nd house, (Venus)
Very good man he was.
 

Berry

Member
Hah, well much of that fits bc you're looking at the chart of a professional fighter. Masculinity, strength and aggression sum him up. In fact he was killed by a crazed fan.

The first chart has all ingridients to be a murder victim(that said not all of you are going to be murdered who happen to have the same aspects)
, Mars Sq Saturn Violence from authority figures
Mars Opp Chiron Insecure with one's masculinity or physical strength.
Mars conj uranus- random sprouts of energy and aggression
Mars Sq Neptune- Invasion of physical boundaries by others. Usually seen in victims of physical abuse and violence.


Indeed, he was too good for this world. It was like he came from another place in time. Wholesome family man, like he stepped out of the 1950's. I used to tell people he was "The real life Hank Hill." If you ever watched King of the Hill, consider yourself to have met him.

His eight house ruler is in his 2nd house, (Venus)
Very good man he was.
 
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