CHIRON

[23]

I'd like to know more about chiron too.

I have chiron in the first house in aries and it conjuncts my jupiter in the first house in aries. It is the only major body that forms an aspect to my natal venus as well (my natal venus being in the 9th house in Sag). It is also opposed to my natal moon that sits in Libra in the 7th.

In 2003-4, I was having a bad time in my then job. Things were going wrong at the time in every possible way, then work ended. Transiting chiron was squaring my natal moon, then it conjuncted my MC, then it squared my natal chiron, and I think now it is conjunct with natal sun and mercury (10th, cap) and was opposing my natal saturn (4th, cancer). Now it is squaring natal Uranus (7th, libra). Ouch, that all really hurt! It has taken me until now to get over all the baggage and stuff.

 

[Frisiangal]

I have already been working in depth on healing issues for the last couple of years, whilst tr. Chiron was in my 11th in Capricorn!

Hello Cara,
I study the effect of the Black Moon Lilith in a chart and I couldn't help wondering if above remark coincided with its placing. Upon checking, Chiron was transiting your 11th house BML on 14* Capricorn beginning
Feb. 2003, retrograding back to it during July, and making its final pass end November 2003. As Natal Moon-Pluto and BML are locked in an inconjunct aspect, whilst natal Chiron and BML are quintile to each other, did this period coincide with when issues that had been plaguing since childhood finally surfaced? The healer you sought finally brought out the natural healer in you?

Without going into details, I am also wondering if the birth and life myth of Chiron also strongly relates in some way to events of your own life.
Chiron in Scorpio square the Leo stellium through Saturn to Moon to BML, would seem to refer to issues concerning emotional neglect, which a young child, too proud to show its feelings to the outer world, built a self protective wall around them in order to survive.

Is my Sun at 29'54 Gemini really considered to be Cancer? I have NEVER identified with the Cancer part of my chart as I feel it is too "squishy" for one thing.

Even though the Sun moved into Cancer within an hour of your birth, Definitely NO! You are an examination degree Gemini Sun. It's very possible that within the months following your birth, a great change took place that had its effect upon the next 30 years of your life. Your name makes me wonder yet again; could it coincide with a physical indispostion that holds you back from relating in general to people, through which the creative energy of how you would otherwise go about that finds expression in your beautiful art work?

How I came into it as part of my own healing process was through what I considered to be an "Initiatory" back injury nearly 2.5 years ago. What was initially follow-up to this injury has turned into an amazing spiritual journey

Back problems are under the rulership of Sun/Leo. Moon in Leo feelings were replaced by Sun in Gemini action?

I know the shaman has to interact with his/her local community to be of service, but this is a huge issue for me now, as I am VERY private, and not happy in my current community.

In my humble opinion, any sort of alternative healing work works best when one *is* detached from emotional involvement. You can serve the community best without holding their Gemini-ruled hands and orchestrating their lives for them (Moon in Leo), but giving them of your knowledge only whilst they are with you. Once the door is closed behind them, you let them go, 'spiritually speaking', otherwise they become a ballast in recharging your own energy. (personal experience talking here

I am also aware of the fact that transiting Chiron is going into my 12th house, to oppose my 6th house stellium - what can I expect from that if I have already been on an intensive healing path for the last couple of years?

I would say that it depends upon whether you are, yourself, healed of what it has been that has hurt inside for so long. In myth, Chiron only retreats into his cave (12th house?) when the pain he lives with becomes unendurable. By making the decision to give up his immortality, the pain ends. I see this as giving up a hurt that has lived too long a life and has outserved its purpose. As tr. Chiron opposes your 6th house stellium, you will hopefully be able to put everything behind you....especialy with Saturn transiting Leo at the same time. Both eventually positively aspect your Gemini Sun. Maybe THAT will coincide with the time when you can interrelate with people in the manner that is Gemin's own perfectly natural state of mind.

F

 

[cara4art]

Chiron

"Hello Cara,
I study the effect of the Black Moon Lilith in a chart and I couldn't help wondering if above remark coincided with its placing. Upon checking, Chiron was transiting your 11th house BML on 14* Capricorn beginning
Feb. 2003, retrograding back to it during July, and making its final pass end November 2003. As Natal Moon-Pluto and BML are locked in an inconjunct aspect, whilst natal Chiron and BML are quintile to each other, did this period coincide with when issues that had been plaguing since childhood finally surfaced? The healer you sought finally brought out the natural healer in you?

Without going into details, I am also wondering if the birth and life myth of Chiron also strongly relates in some way to events of your own life.
Chiron in Scorpio square the Leo stellium through Saturn to Moon to BML, would seem to refer to issues concerning emotional neglect, which a young child, too proud to show its feelings to the outer world, built a self protective wall around them in order to survive." - Frisiangal

Many good inputs here! My back injury happened in late September of 2003 while I was on vacation, toward the end of the Chiron-Lilith transit in my 11th house. I had never had any back problems prior to that - I haved exercised very regularly over the last 30+ years, and am not overweight at all. Also, that year was continuing multiple moves in my community, and increasing dissatisfaction with said community, which continues to this day. We have moved 14 times in our village within the last 3.5 years. My husband and I ARE working on a way to get out of here. This rural community in drought-stricken country feels stifling and literally drying-up of my vital force for me. I have been unhappy here for the last 3 years, but my husband was perfectly content here up until fairly recently. Since I have let this out of the bag, he really doesn't want to see me be unhappy for the rest of my life.
About the "issues concerning emotional neglect" this is true in spades - I had a VERY controlling, emotionally abusive mother, which it took intensive psychotherapy to get past! My dad never stood up to her either to protect me, as he was under her thumb, too. Later in life, he drank to try to ease his continuing depression(we all know how well that doesn't work-LOL! As for alcohol, I don't ever drink it!) I was continually told to not ever express my feelings, and every detail of my life was scheduled - I was seldom allowed to just be me, with downtime. As a result, I had chronic bronchitis from ages of 5 up until I was 11. My health improved after that, and especially well before my 1st Saturn return, when I got seriously into health and fitness following a bout with mononucleosis.
The deeper issues I am working on now, however, do not come entirely from this lifetime, however they have been reinforced, esp. in childhood, as my shamanic energy practitioner commented from the very beginning of our time together. It has seemd like a long bout with this work, and just as I feel that I have cleared something major, there's more to come! It's been a slow process - no dramatic breakthroughs for me!
But maybe there's hope, as you mentioned about tr. Chiron coming to oppose my 6th-house stellium, in that I can leave all this behind me!
Again, thanks for your input into this! I'd say from this dialogue that Chiron is indeed hugely important in my chart!

 

[Arian Maverick]

Well, at least something good thing came out of my natal chart ordeal...I now have Chiron within a degree of my Nadir!

Beth

 

[Shimmy26]

And so my quest to step back or up or sideways and try to view Chiron away from my Sun if possible. The main thing I've discovered for me at least with Chiron/Sun conjunction, is that I'm learning how to deal with being conscious of process if that makes any sense. I feel that Chiron teaches us how to keep both eyes wide open and remain in our bodies at all those scarey and painful points when we'd naturally flee the sceen of the crime normally! We'd leave our bodies, we'd leave our minds, we'd just plane leave because its too much. Chiron teaches how to face all of that and move through 'it'.

Lapis, I completely agree with this, as I have a Chiron/Sun conjunction also. This explains quite well why I have almost stopped relating to being a Cancer altogether. When the Chiron wounds get too harsh, I go 'into my shell' in a sense, but it's kind of like I don't ever surface. I basically just consider myself an aloof, indifferent Aquarius (my rising), with some angry Aries (my moon) mixed in. And I've really noticed how much my natal Mercury (Gemini in the 3rd) is kicking in, with the...hmm....how shall I put this? Ability to lie? Anyways, to sum this up, I have almost completely lost touch with my Cancer self (oh crab, please come back to me!).

feeling warm and protected -- and the quest for it -- is a huge issue for Cancers.

Many never leave the psychological womb and create layers of insulation around themselves to protect that warm, soft place and these individuals can become very hardened on the outside.

I second that! Although I always thought that is was my Aquarius rising's indifference acting as my 'hardened outside'. And layers of insulation..........possibly acquired from a Cancer's love for food?

 

[Lapis]

Shimmy26,

Hi, everytime I see your name I wonder if you do shimmy? Being a retired belly dancer, I've put in thousands of miles shimmying! How was that for a random thought?

You're a Cancer/Chiron Sun
I'm a Capricorn/Chiron Sun

The Cancer/Capriorn polarity is IMO, a tuff one to deal with. I mean look at what this combo is trying to integrate.......Cancer/Moon the most sensitive and intuitive sign of all 12, The Mother or Goddess energies, profoundly deep feeling nature (which is so important IMO), Home both physically, psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, and nurturing self/all etc.

AND opposite all that is Capricorn/Saturn and vise versa. Capricorn/Saturn the most physical, earthy, compressed, dense, heavy of all the 12 signs, The Father or 'Gods' energies, profound sense of responsibility, manifestating physically, responsibilities, and what 'Power' is all about in 3D.

It's sort of like night and day with these 2. I'd guess that when you do your Cancer thing and go within or retreat, that to keep functioning you slide into your opposite polarity, Capricorn, and that's what might feel so hardened and cold. As you said though, Aquarius isn't all warm and fuzzy naturally either unless they draw upon their opposite Leo heart. I'm just suggesting a deeper look/feel into the Cancer/Capricorn polarity too.

In a Barbara Hand Clow book she uses the keywords "Feeling Deeply" for Cancer and "Taking Power" for Capricorn. The big trick for all Cancers and Capricorns is to figure out how to do both! How to handle power (in different ways) AND at the same time always feel deeply! And vise versa. There's some deep clues with just these keywords she's used.

Now......add Shamanic Chiron conjuncting our Cancer/Capricorn Suns and we've got some deep issues to deal with I feel. Ancient very archetypal Light/Dark, God/Goddess, Mother/Father, Male/Female, Physical Power/Emotional Feelings, Solid/Liquid, etc.

I've been learning all my life about this deep split between these 2 powerful archetypes right down deep inside myself. For me this goes all the way back to ancient Lemuria and later Atlantis where this split originated on this planet I feel, at least within this last phase or cycle. Healing and integrating the split right/left brain and the male/female right inside each of us no matter what our astrological sign or physical sex in this life.

We've all heard the now common term....."The Mind/Body Connection". It's very true that thought (mind) creates what we experience in physicality and our bodies. But, the other half of this 4-some is this Cancer/Capricorn sort of archetypal energies......or The Emotional Feeling/Spiritual Connection! With the rediscovery of Chiron back in 1977 the whole "Body Mind Connection" awareness started for humanity. I'm suggesting that we're having to now take this to the next level and incorporate the archetypal Goddess (Cancer)/Gods (Capricorn) or Emotional Feeling with the Spiritual to complete this 4 way split.

I'm not a religious person but this 4-some this + reminds me of people who cross (+) themselves. They touch their forehead or 3rd Eye chakra drawing upon their abilities to SEE the unseen, and then they touch their heart or Heart chakra drawing upon their abilites to FEEL deeply, and then they touch their right shoulder or side drawing upon their Inner Male Self, and lastly they touch their left shoulder or left side drawing upon their Inner Female Self in a beautiful symbol of +. Equal integration of Higher Vision/Mind/Heart and Male/Female within the physical body.

Who better than Chiron to help reteach us how to do this for ourselves now?

 

[Empath]

I'm not a religious person but this 4-some this + reminds me of people who cross (+) themselves. They touch their forehead or 3rd Eye chakra drawing upon their abilities to SEE the unseen, and then they touch their heart or Heart chakra drawing upon their abilites to FEEL deeply, and then they touch their right shoulder or side drawing upon their Inner Male Self, and lastly they touch their left shoulder or left side drawing upon their Inner Female Self in a beautiful symbol of +. Equal integration of Higher Vision/Mind/Heart and Male/Female within the physical body.

Wow. 12 years of Catholic school, and ALL those signs of the cross... and now it finally makes sense!

These days, I consider myself a Recovering Catholic, as opposed to a Roman Catholic, but I think I'll start using the sign of the cross again. Thanks.

BTW, I had the same question about bellydancing when I saw Shimmy's name. Hmmmm... the prominant Chiron/bellydance connection....

 

[Arian Maverick]

Awesome insight as always, Lapis! I think I have just regained my enthusiasm for doing the sign of the cross (aka "crossing" myself) :mrgreen:

Arian Maverick

 

[Lapis]

If you look at things through esoteric eyes or just with the thought of.....what in the heck are they doing and why from an energy standpoint, so many of these ancient symbols bust wide open with clear new meanings.

The 'Equal Armed Cross' + meaning just that......equal, balanced, and whole.

I was sitting in my car in a parking lot the other day when this man and his wife got into their car parked infront of me. While he was reaching for his seat belt, like some fast perfected Martial Arts move, he crossed himself twice and did the kiss the thumb thing. I don't mean to sound disrespectful, I just don't know what the kiss the thumb thing means? I just can't get an esoteric connection with kissing the thumb! :roll:

Anyway I understood why he was doing his ritual prior to starting his SUV engine and backing out of the parking space! I chuckled to myself and thought, "Good, at least he's paying attention and called in some Divine protection while driving in southern California!" I do my own version of this little ritual in my car before I put it in reverse in the driveway at home. I ground and connect myself to the 7 sacred directions and after that I wrap up my car in an aura of Light and push it out in all directions.

We both did basically the same things for the same reasons, just in our own ways. There must be some Chiron Rainbow Bridge sort of connection with this off the wall post!?!

 

[Sugarflame]

Hi everyone. I just recently found out about Chiron myself, and from what I've found online I've only been able to grasp very little about it. All I know about my Chiron is that it's in Cancer in the 7th house. . .if I post my chart, can somebody maybe help me figure out more about it? :? You guys are WAY ahead of me--talking about all these aspects, etc.--I feel so lost! But I would like to catch up (or try to, at least), nonetheless. :mrgreen: If anyone could tell me more about my Chiron and where it's placed, what it means, etc., etc., it would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[Laura Elizabeth]

5th house moon - I have Chiron @ 18 Pisces (9th house), opposed by Uranus, Pluto, Moon, Mars (12 - 15 degrees, 3rd house) Virgo and I've been pondering what it means as well. I don't have any answers, but I think as we get closer to our Chiron return, more answers will reveal themselves to us, just as they did to those with Chiron in Capricorn and Aquarius. I hope it isn't as eventful as Empath's journey!

Does anyone else have Chiron and Venus in tight conjunction? I have a problem differentiating the energies here. Perhaps it's supposed to be that way?

As I said, Chiron is in the 9th - Intellect, Religion, Philosophy. I was raised Catholic but walked away (without anger, just boredom and lack of faith) around 16 - 18. About ten years ago I became more and more aware of Christian Fundamentalism - the really dogmatic Christians - and their attitudes and behavior made me extremely angry. I mean real rage, fury, at people I don't even know. Same holds true Fundamentalists (dogmatists) of any religion. Sometime between 16 and 30 I began forming my own philosophy: I believe that each soul must find it's own path to the divine. Each soul is rigth in it's own choices and so long as it doesn't try to force another soul onto the same path and remains connected to the divine, it should be okay. When I realized how angry I was with people who didn't give others the same free will, I realized I was becoming just like them. I had a good laugh and then consigned them to the divine. They'll find their own way. The pain the cause others in the process pains me, but I have no right to force them off their own path.

The "wounds" I received were in bullying - the process whereby one forces their ways (thoughts and feelings) onto another (which is also why I'm so angry with the Bush administration... but that's another story). I reacted as a kid, and do now, with anger and rage whenever I encounter bullying. It's psychologial warfare as far as I'm concerned and it's deeply cruel. I'm still putting it all together, the lesson of Chiron in the 9th for me, but I think part of it is learning to find a new way of dealing with bullys, dogmatists, fundamentalists, from the heart (Venus) and as well as the mind (9th house) without anger (Mars in Virgo in the 3rd). And so, Lapis, I love this:

I'm not a religious person but this 4-some this + reminds me of people who cross (+) themselves. They touch their forehead or 3rd Eye chakra drawing upon their abilities to SEE the unseen, and then they touch their heart or Heart chakra drawing upon their abilites to FEEL deeply, and then they touch their right shoulder or side drawing upon their Inner Male Self, and lastly they touch their left shoulder or left side drawing upon their Inner Female Self in a beautiful symbol of +. Equal integration of Higher Vision/Mind/Heart and Male/Female within the physical body.

Who better than Chiron to help reteach us how to do this for ourselves now?

Thank you so much. I'm not quite sure what it's telling me, but it's telling me something.

You see, I'm also fighting (tr. Uranus opposed Uranus, Pluto, Mars, Moon) reconnecting to a Church. There is a pull from within towards returning to organized worship, but the fear (Saturn in Pisces) of being pulled under the dogmatic sway of organized religion is very great. Choosing a path to follow may not be enough - reaching out as well as accepting the return - may be in order as well. For me. I don't know about anyone else [/b]

 

[Frisiangal]

-

I have Chiron @ 18 Pisces (9th house), opposed by Uranus, Pluto, Moon, Mars (12 - 15 degrees, 3rd house) Virgo and I've been pondering what it means as well. I don't have any answers, but I think as we get closer to our Chiron return, more answers will reveal themselves to us

Does anyone else have Chiron and Venus in tight conjunction? I have a problem differentiating the energies here. Perhaps it's supposed to be that way?

The myth of Chiron is the opposite of that of Jesus of Nazareth.
Chiron in Pisces always inclines me to think that they fuse to become one and the same. Their pain is the pain of humanity, their suffering is that of mankind, not of Self. With your Venus in Pisces conjunct, associated with sacrificial love for your fellow man, I should imagine that you can empathise and even personify with both.

F.

 

[Lapis]

Laura Elizabeth,

I could so relate to your post and I've never been involved with any 'church' or 'religion'! To understand your Chiron in Pisces in 9 opposite Uranus, Pluto, Moon and Mars.......just reread your post as if it was written by someone else. It's all there in your post, then come back in a couple of days and reread it again. It's an amazing and telling post.

With the 2 outer planets- Uranus and Pluto- in opposition to Chiron, I get the sense (I'm going off into Lapis Land with this only because it jumped out and yelled at me!) that you've had a few past lives where you were possibly a nun and in another a male in a group of people who had a lot of power over another group of religious people. People were killed, wounded, damaged in various ways, mainly because of religious and power issues. Nothing new here! (Please understand that we've all played these different roles over the Ages. I've swung many a sword in a couple of lives and was really good at it! I don't mean to sound like I've singled you out here at all. I just have to discern whether I should say anything about what I 'recieve' or not?)

Moon and Mars......possibly the 'nun' and the 'warrior' and much more of course. What I'm struggling to say is, I'm getting the feeling that this issue has been experinced in both a female life and a male one. They were very, very, different but it was the same core issue basically. The quest for spirituality through a religion verses the whole negative power control and manipulations done by and to those with physical power.

And now it feels to me that you, like so many of us, are taking this massive multiple issue from numerous past or other 'lives' and healing, integrating, processing all of these ancient female and male wounds both physical and deep emotional psychological wounds. The mental image I get with all of this is that in this life at the end of numerous cosmic cycles, you've scooped up all of these female, male, victim, victimizer, wounded, one who's wounded others etc. and are processing ALL of this now. Why? Because you're going for the Gold because it's time and the energies are completely right for it all. This is true for all of us in these lives now!!!

Might I suggest that you continue "fighting reconnecting to a Church."
I haven't seen your natal as yet but you mentioned that you're in the Uranus Opposition now too. Wow.......try letting 'Uranus Opposition' do what it does and help you clear out (energetically, emotionally and physically if necessary) all those old wounds and woundings etc. Use this energy to Alchemically burn through these old 'issues' now and let THE Church wait to see who you are on the other side of Uranus Opposition. Remember Chiron and Uranus connect in wonderful ways, so give your Initiation time to play itself out, because you already have far more than any 'church' right inside your Heart. I sure hope I haven't crossed a line with this post, but like I said, it jumped out and yelled at me. My Chiron talking to your Chiron.

 

[Kite]

Oh Chiron you half animal half human wounded excuse of a process.

I can't believe you take my kitten to re-open wounds of senseless loss and abandonment. How can one reconcile the unfathonable?

We can intellectualize forever and more, but soothing the wound of love destroyed? Since when do you take on roles of Neptunian flavor? Dissolving the crutch of unconditional love. Dis-illusioning a friend I could count on?

How dare you insert a lesson of despair. One targeted at surrender. Aimed at the heart. Diverted to the in-between.

Your arrows dipped in poison are death-defying in their reflection but death inflicting in their demonstration. So the lesson is counting on nothing and the test is giving up everything.

I am Job in the whirlwind. Cursing God's will to destroy all that I love. For the fun of it. For the joy of it. For the rock bottom thrill of it. To know I'm alive and that my cat is not.

How can one heal from the unhealable? No rationalization will suffice to remove the vacuum of the missing purr.

Kite

 

[Laura Elizabeth]

-

I have Chiron @ 18 Pisces (9th house), opposed by Uranus, Pluto, Moon, Mars (12 - 15 degrees, 3rd house) Virgo and I've been pondering what it means as well. I don't have any answers, but I think as we get closer to our Chiron return, more answers will reveal themselves to us

Does anyone else have Chiron and Venus in tight conjunction? I have a problem differentiating the energies here. Perhaps it's supposed to be that way?

The myth of Chiron is the opposite of that of Jesus of Nazareth.
Chiron in Pisces always inclines me to think that they fuse to become one and the same. Their pain is the pain of humanity, their suffering is that of mankind, not of Self. With your Venus in Pisces conjunct, associated with sacrificial love for your fellow man, I should imagine that you can empathise and even personify with both.

F.

Frisiangal, I'm going to have to re-read and then re-think Chiron and Jesus. You see, I saw them as telling the same story in different ways, not being opposites.

I can empathise; detachment is difficult. I understand why, or I guess I should say how, people become homeless; or addicted to substances (food, alcohol, drugs, shopping, etc); anger, power, hatred, bigotry - I get how human beings get there. What I don't get is how to get them back - and it's frustrating.

At the same time I know that without suffering the soul never learns. It's hard to explain. I don't like it, but I know that suffering is good for learning. It opens both the heart and mind to comprehending, feeling, others, to putting them into someone elses place. The problem is human beings get so caught up in their own individual suffering they cannot look beyond themselves and see that others are in the same place and that together they can survive... that's what 12 step programs are supposed to be about, but they don't solve the problems either.

I'm making no sense, I know. It's frustrating. I can never get these points across. I've always assumed it is, in part, because of the tight conjunctions and oppositions in my chart. It's difficult to differentiate the thoughts. And with Mercury in Aries, I have no patience for not being able to quickly, clearly and concisly explain what I mean You did a much better job:

Their pain is the pain of humanity, their suffering is that of mankind, not of Self.

 

[Laura Elizabeth]

Laura Elizabeth,

I could so relate to your post and I've never been involved with any 'church' or 'religion'! To understand your Chiron in Pisces in 9 opposite Uranus, Pluto, Moon and Mars.......just reread your post as if it was written by someone else. It's all there in your post, then come back in a couple of days and reread it again. It's an amazing and telling post.

Thank you. I did re-read it and I'll do so again. I think I'm getting it.

With the 2 outer planets- Uranus and Pluto- in opposition to Chiron, I get the sense (I'm going off into Lapis Land with this only because it jumped out and yelled at me!) that you've had a few past lives where you were possibly a nun and in another a male in a group of people who had a lot of power over another group of religious people. People were killed, wounded, damaged in various ways, mainly because of religious and power issues. Nothing new here! (Please understand that we've all played these different roles over the Ages. I've swung many a sword in a couple of lives and was really good at it! I don't mean to sound like I've singled you out here at all. I just have to discern whether I should say anything about what I 'recieve' or not?)

I'm not sure where I stand on reincarnation. When I was a child my Grandfather and I would talk about issues of faith. I don't really remember the exact words any longer, but the conversations would go on and on and my questions would get more and more intense and he'd always come back to faith. I'd keep asking why, looking for rational answers, he'd come back with faith. And then, not as an admonisment, but a gentle way of ending my endless questions, he'd gently poke me in the side and say: You are Thomas and smile. I eventually asked what he meant - I got the conversation was over, I just didn't know what he meant. He asked me who Thomas was - I said he was the disciple who didn't believe Jesus rose from the dead until he put his hands in the wounds. My Grandfather just smiled. It took a while, but I got it. I'm Thomas. I have to put my hands in the wounds - I have to have proof - before I believe. So, for me to believe in reincarnation, I'd have to have real proof that I had been before. I don't.

However, I don't dismiss it either. It's possible. Anything in life not proven to be completely impossible, is possible. And - you're not the first person to tell me about my past life as a Nun, Priest, and Warrior - that I've used faith and power as both a tool and a weapon - that I'm here to solve this, finally.

But you see... I have no proof, so I'm afraid to make a leap of faith :mrgreen: I also cannot even being to guess where to start.

Moon and Mars......possibly the 'nun' and the 'warrior' and much more of course. What I'm struggling to say is, I'm getting the feeling that this issue has been experinced in both a female life and a male one. They were very, very, different but it was the same core issue basically. The quest for spirituality through a religion verses the whole negative power control and manipulations done by and to those with physical power.

And now it feels to me that you, like so many of us, are taking this massive multiple issue from numerous past or other 'lives' and healing, integrating, processing all of these ancient female and male wounds both physical and deep emotional psychological wounds. The mental image I get with all of this is that in this life at the end of numerous cosmic cycles, you've scooped up all of these female, male, victim, victimizer, wounded, one who's wounded others etc. and are processing ALL of this now. Why? Because you're going for the Gold because it's time and the energies are completely right for it all. This is true for all of us in these lives now!!!

Might I suggest that you continue "fighting reconnecting to a Church."
I haven't seen your natal as yet but you mentioned that you're in the Uranus Opposition now too. Wow.......try letting 'Uranus Opposition' do what it does and help you clear out (energetically, emotionally and physically if necessary) all those old wounds and woundings etc. Use this energy to Alchemically burn through these old 'issues' now and let THE Church wait to see who you are on the other side of Uranus Opposition. Remember Chiron and Uranus connect in wonderful ways, so give your Initiation time to play itself out, because you already have far more than any 'church' right inside your Heart. I sure hope I haven't crossed a line with this post, but like I said, it jumped out and yelled at me. My Chiron talking to your Chiron.

You didn't cross any lines. You gave me a lot to think about. Which I always love! Thanks so much!

 

[Laura Elizabeth]

How can one heal from the unhealable? No rationalization will suffice to remove the vacuum of the missing purr.

I am so sorry. You are right.

Your arrows dipped in poison are death-defying in their reflection but death inflicting in their demonstration. So the lesson is counting on nothing and the test is giving up everything.

But I have to disagree with you here.

You can count on the next cat that comes into your life to give you the same unconditional love your missing cat has always given you. The fur, the eyes, the personality will be different, but the love will be the same. You will receive the same love in return that you give the next cat who comes to you, just as the love you got from the missing cat is the reflection of the love you gave him (her). Giving up on everything means living without love.

But you know that. It just hurts so bad, not knowing what happened. I'm hoping he (I keep saying "he" because my furbabies are all boys. All Boy!) will come back. Sadly he won't be able to tell you where he's been or why he wandered off.

 

[Frisiangal]

[quote="Laura ElizabethFrisiangal, I'm going to have to re-read and then re-think Chiron and Jesus. You see, I saw them as telling the same story in different ways, not being opposites

.

I agree with you; they tell the same story but their lives were opposite in its telling.

Both were the sons of (a) god and brought up by 'pseudo'-parents. One was born into poverty as a mortal, the other as a fully-fledged god on Olympus and, thus, immortal. Both were teachers. One taught peace and used natural healing through the hands, the other the arts of war and healing through natural herbs (homeopathy). One remained single, the other married. Each suffered an agony before dying to save mankind, one nailed to a cross, the other tied to a wheel. The one gave up his human mortality to rise to immortality as the son of God; the other gave up his godly immortality for human mortality.


From your reply to Lapis:

I'm Thomas. I have to put my hands in the wounds - I have to have proof - before I believe.

You can't be; that's what I have always called myself I know exactly what you mean and how you feel. Do you have a large Earth element in your chart apart from the Virgo planets? I'm an Earth Sun, Moon, Asc., Mercury, Venus, Chiron and Black Moon Lilith....and POF also in 9th!
Brought up in Christianity but never a church-goer, Astrology has been my way to get the 'proof', as intangible as it is at times. I've found that, often, it's just a question of seeing it and instead of thinking, 'it can't be', realising 'it is.'

F.

 

[Laura Elizabeth]

I agree with you; they tell the same story but their lives were opposite in its telling.

Both were the sons of (a) god and brought up by 'pseudo'-parents. One was born into poverty as a mortal, the other as a fully-fledged god on Olympus and, thus, immortal. Both were teachers. One taught peace and used natural healing through the hands, the other the arts of war and healing through natural herbs (homeopathy). One remained single, the other married. Each suffered an agony before dying to save mankind, one nailed to a cross, the other tied to a wheel. The one gave up his human mortality to rise to immortality as the son of God; the other gave up his godly immortality for human mortality.

Oh! Ok, now I understand what you meant.

From your reply to Lapis:

I'm Thomas. I have to put my hands in the wounds - I have to have proof - before I believe.

You can't be; that's what I have always called myself I know exactly what you mean and how you feel. Do you have a large Earth element in your chart apart from the Virgo planets? I'm an Earth Sun, Moon, Asc., Mercury, Venus, Chiron and Black Moon Lilith....and POF also in 9th!
Brought up in Christianity but never a church-goer, Astrology has been my way to get the 'proof', as intangible as it is at times. I've found that, often, it's just a question of seeing it and instead of thinking, 'it can't be', realising 'it is.'

F.

I have no air planets, and only one planet in fire - Mercury (10th) - otherwise:

Moon, Mars, Uranus, Pluto in Virgo, 3rd house; Jupiter in Taurus 11th; POF is 8 Capricorn, BML is 15 Capricorn and Lilith is 17 Capricorn (7th house)
Saturn, Chiron, Venus, Sun in Pisces, 9th house; Neptune in Scorpio 5th house; Cancer ASC

 

[Arian Maverick]

I have no air planets, and only one planet in fire - Mercury (10th)

Wow! I just checked your natal chart in the Introductory Board and I am certainly intrigued by these findings!

I wasn't sure whether to appoint Jupiter or the Moon as your chart ruler as thus give it an extra emphasis in the chart, but I believe this is besides the point (pun intended ). Mercury is thrice a singleton--by modality, element, and polarity! I highly recommend that you read the article Mercury as a Singleton on The Astrology Club, a link Lunar Pisces gave us on the Chart Assistance Board.



Arian Maverick

P.S. I think we should include Chiron in this system, traditional technique or not...what do you say?