Chiron in the 4th.

reedstar

Member
So I have Chiron in the 4th natally, and currently, Pluto is conjunct the IC, and progressed Moon is conjunct Uranus in the 10th.

Guess what - I can't find anywhere to live. And I'm desperate to move. I'm renting a room in a beautiful mansion of a place, my stuff has been in storage for over 2 years, and my life seems to be on hold until I get a place of my own.

A great deal of inner work is going on, too - insights and healing galore over the past few months.

I am also very familiar with astrocartography.

So my question is - where do I go and what do I do? Does anyone else live in a location with Chiron in the 4th? What is it like for you?

My understanding is that where Chiron is concerned, the wound never heals because it belongs to our forebears. The only way out is to sacrifice something, as Chiron had to do in order to be relieved of his perennial suffering.

Any suggestions and opinions gratefully received. Thanks.
 

starlink

Well-known member
Goodness, difficult one, but Progressed Moon conjunct Uranus looks like big change for me as well as Pluto (total transformation). So changing social surroundings sounds like the biggest possibility for me.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
I'm with starlink on this one.

Chiron in the 4th describes wounds which are (ultimately it seems) to be found within your heredity, or at the very least, the family in which you grew up. The `old wives tale' that a Chiron wound(s) is never healed is not necessarily true. Chiron wounds tend to be integrated, rather than healed - you know, like that weird uncle who likes to talk about his childhood, or his interest in collecting stamps, or growing pumpkins, or (in the case of an uncle of mine) keeping bees. You can avoid him for just so long, but after a while you learn how to listen to him, and to even appreciate his unique approach to life.

In a mundane sense, Chiron in the 4th can bring issues to do with house and housing security, family, and your parents - before you discover that all these issues have their origins in the family line of heredity. Those who have Chiron in the 4th often have `skeletons in the cupboard' in the family history. These issues may be having an effect upon you, even if you have no idea what they are, or even if they are! At its very core, a Chiron in the 4th wound may be about how secure you feel on the planet, and in a physical body,.

Pluto's passage over your IC, and then through your 4th :)w00t:) can be quite devastating where your housing security is concerned. The key is to go with the flow, even if you cannot see where things are headed.
reedstar said:
A great deal of inner work is going on, too - insights and healing galore over the past few months
This also is a very good use of this energy. As you clear your inner space - i.e. make sense of it - your outer space should also fall into place.
 

starlink

Well-known member
Pluto's passage over your IC, and then through your 4th :)w00t:) can be quite devastating where your housing security is concerned. The key is to go with the flow, even if you cannot see where things are headed.

Absolutely. When I had Pluto passing over my Ascendant, this caused a similar devastation,but then in my relationship. Interesting thing with Pluto is, that you all of a sudden become driven, almost fanatically (all Pluto symptoms) towards doing what you need to do. In my case: moving out and finding a new place to live (managed that within ONE week!!) looking for a 100% job (had not worked for 20 years, so you can imagine!!), managed that one within 2 month. thinking back now, I just dont know how on earth I did it all, but you become sort of hypnotised (really the right word for those moments) and just go for it, without really thinking too much about it, let alone trying to stop it. When Pluto was still within 5° from the Ascendant however, I just felt it coming and got into a "preparation mode", teaching myself again how to type blindly because I just knew that that would be one of the first requisits when finding a new job. I practiced with a CD on my computer 3 hours a day. It is the same with Saturn going through 12. First preparation and when he enters the 1st house, you start building.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member


Interesting thing with Pluto is, that you all of a sudden become driven, almost fanatically (all Pluto symptoms) towards doing what you need to do. In my case: moving out and finding a new place to live (managed that within ONE week!!) looking for a 100% job (had not worked for 20 years, so you can imagine!!), managed that one within 2 month. thinking back now, I just dont know how on earth I did it all, but you become sort of hypnotised (really the right word for those moments) and just go for it, without really thinking too much about it, let alone trying to stop it.
starlink, that is such a good description of how Pluto affects us.

"you become sort of hypnotised" Yes, yes, yes!!!
Pluto demands so much of us - so much in such a short time - that a hypnotic state
is necessary, probably in order to shut off the intellect which says: "I can't do this - get me out of here!!!"
Harsh Pluto transits create opportunities for us to achieve the unachievable. (That's my little snippet of philosophy for today!!)

[A 22-yr-old whom I know recently stated that she'd been like she was "hypnotised" in her friendship with her former best friend, a r/ship which had actually been quite emotionally abusive, and had coincided with the Pluto conj Neptune of both young women. A classic Pluto-Neptune dynamic.]
 

reedstar

Member
Thank you, R4ven and Starlink for your insights, much appreciated. I particularly like the bit about how Pluto can hypnotise me.



When I had Pluto passing over my Ascendant, this caused a similar devastation,but then in my relationship. Interesting thing with Pluto is, that you all of a sudden become driven, almost fanatically (all Pluto symptoms) towards doing what you need to do.


Yes, fantically driven. Obsessed. I've been trying to buy a house and because of my limited means, have to look at the very bottom end of the market, which means essentially looking at old houses in the middle of the countryside. I put an offer on one a couple of weeks ago, and would wake up in the wee small hours of the night full of dread and trepidation at the notion of going to live by myself in an old house in the country. And then the house inspection failed, so I had to let it go. Surprisingly, this sent me into a deep depression. Because fundamentally, I can't seem to be able to decide where to go, where to live (Libra rising) and feel I've merely come full circle and am right back where I started, 2 years ago. So I am wondering if it would be better to go to live somewhere where Chiron is not in my 4th house?

At its very core, a Chiron in the 4th wound may be about how secure you feel on the planet, and in a physical body,.

Amen. Half the time I can't think of anywhere on earth I would like to live! And then there are career issues underlying all of this, too, and sometimes it feels like I'm walking on quicksand. Security issues and concerns are quite predominant at the moment. And I want to figure out the best way to work with this energy, because it feels like nothing is ever going to change.

Going with the flow is a great idea, but there doesn't seem to be any flow to go with...

And then there is my dream - to buy land and build a house...I must be completely crazy.

This discussion is helping me to see things from a different point of view, much appreciated.




 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Hi Reedstar,

So I have Chiron in the 4th natally
Having read your text in the quotes above, I have a question. Have you almost always (or, at least, not just recently) had a problem with either housing, in general, or literally having to do with your house/place where you live, or within the family (say, insecurities due to some tragic experiences, or a poor family life)? If any one of this (or more) is true, or something similar to the effect; it would show the manifestation of Chiron in your radix 4th house. Chiron shows our weak spots/our wounds, but which strengthen us (or heal us, to put it in Chironic terms). The current Pluto transit might basically be a trigger. In my case, when tr-Saturn was in almost an exact conjunction to Chiron in the 9th, I moved abroad. Of course, there were other indicators, too, like tr-Pluto in about a 4° conjunction to the N-node in radix 4th, a close Ura-Ura square, and tr-Jup conjunct my Sun & Merc.

:)AQ7

PS: I will move your thread to the 'Houses and Cusps' section, as the title reads a particular natal placement in a house.
 
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Chiron is associated with the emotional wounds we receive early on in our lives. The sign Chiron is in will dominate but the house placing will show in which area the personality is motivated and into which they will put their efforts. In the fourth house, it may indicate an insecure early family life, so much so that feelings of abandonment or being the 'black sheep' persist. A lack of self- confidence may make you think doing anything with your life is a waste of time. You probably have a lot of time for other people and have great empathy. Try to bring out the unique you by using this feeling of being 'different'http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/chironinhouses.html

Progressed moon conj Uranus in 10th will make you feel restless a friendship or job may break, problems with women,mother, children, girlfriends. Really depends on how your uranus is aspected natally if this will be easy or challenging. Under this transit you often feel impulsive and willing to act rashly. Your moods change so quickly that you surprise yourself as well as others. You may be with someone else who is like this, usually a woman. Probably you will be impatient with your normal routine and want to do something completely different

It be most helpful to ‘post’ their charts (rather than data), for others to comment on as we are all visual. For help on how to do this, go here http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126

Will send you PM re: Pluto conj IC as the forum rules stipulate that only 100words can be used from another author without stating the author, book or website and as I don’t recall exactly where or who and don’t want to commit plagiarism, don’t have any choice but to PM as I do want you to have the full information or quote……


 

Moradiva

Well-known member
Reedstar,

I have this placement as well & Astrologer50's post pretty much sums it up for me, especially this part:

In the fourth house, it may indicate an insecure early family life, so much so that feelings of abandonment...

was this the case for you in your childhood, too?
 

reedstar

Member
I have an afflicted Chiron in the 4th house.

I still haven't found a place to live on my own.

Wow, I am not alone then - maybe we should get together...:crying:This is so helpful.

Reedstar,

I have this placement as well & Astrologer50's post pretty much sums it up for me, especially this part:


was this the case for you in your childhood, too?

Yes - me, too - lots of stuff here. I've known about these issues ever since I discovered I had Chiron in the 4th. but it seems right now to be really in my face - the whole family history of being a european immigrant family, cut off from our ancestral roots, from a culture that I learned as a small child was socially unacceptable. My mother also has Chiron in the 4th, and I have a niece (who I don't know very well) with the same placement.

Housing - well, I never realized it before - I suppose I have always had issues - more like fears, really. I've moved a great deal in my life. I once owned a flat in London, UK - a miracle I ever managed to buy it, as I had such a wrestling match with myself over it. It was a small studio flat. Now I wish I hadn't sold it and moved away. When I came back to North America, I had a bit of a hard time finding somewhere to live, and eventually ended up living common law, but the house never felt like my own place, and I essentially lived in one little room. We split up a couple of years ago, and I'm renting a room (yet again) in a shared house. It seems I've lived in other people's houses for ever.

Now the urge to move is enormous, and I want to have my own place, I have dreams of owning a house, but can only afford something old that needs a lot of work doing to it, and it all seems so futile. I have the opportunity now that the market is low, but am so full of dread at the notion of taking on all that responsibility. And I wonder if really, being in this part of the world, it is only exacerbating the natal issue of Chiron in the 4th., yes, definitely being triggered by Pluto at the IC. I sometimes wonder if I should return to Europe, where I was actually much happier.

The IC - one's roots - and how fundamental having a place to live is to life. The heat is really being turned up, and I am so thankful to be able to discuss this with other astrologers. It is really helping me to gain a different perspective.

Something needs healing, and not just for myself. Sometimes I find myself contemplating going to stay with my aging mother - bad idea, really. Sometimes I think I have to just feel the fear and do it anyway.
 

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R4VEN

Well-known member
reedstar said:
It seems I've lived in other people's houses for ever.
With that one statement you have summed up the real issue in your own Chiron wound - that of having this heavily laden heredity which you (somehow) cart around with you wherever you go!! And it tends to create chaos - or at the very least, struggle - in your life around your housing - i.e. where do I belong??

In your above post you have very clearly described your own family-heredity-shame/wounding-Chiron-in-the-4th issue. Well done!!

You also have your Chiron (and your 4th house cusp) in Capricorn, so this brings with it further depth to the wound to do with:

  • ethnicity/country where you `belong'
  • the desire to be a success in the world, but feeling that your efforts are going unrecognised
  • perhaps you may even sabotage success in order to create what it is you believe about yourself - perhaps as a result of that family shame stuff.
With Chiron in Capricorn, true success is best if it comes later in life, when it will be valued and built upon. Those with Chiron in Cap who achieve success early in life can tend to squander it, as they think the good times will continue forever. With this placement there is a need for you to nurture - yourself, and what you have, or what it is you value.

reedstar said:
Now the urge to move is enormous, and I want to have my own place, I have dreams of owning a house, but can only afford something old that needs a lot of work doing to it, and it all seems so futile. I have the opportunity now that the market is low, but am so full of dread at the notion of taking on all that responsibility. And I wonder if really, being in this part of the world, it is only exacerbating the natal issue of Chiron in the 4th., yes, definitely being triggered by Pluto at the IC. I sometimes wonder if I should return to Europe, where I was actually much happier.
Everything you describe here sounds like Pluto is doing its work!!!
Don't panic. Pluto is probably asking you to firstly examine your past (as you are now doing) to see how it impacts on your beliefs and expectations, and then when you least expect it, a chink of light will shine through, and your perspective will change in some way. Perhaps an option you had not considered will present itself - but timing is everything.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
poshslob said:
I have an afflicted Chiron in the 4th house.
I still haven't found a place to live on my own.
reedstar said:
I've known about these issues ever since I discovered I had Chiron in the 4th. but it seems right now to be really in my face - the whole family history of being a european immigrant family, cut off from our ancestral roots, from a culture that I learned as a small child was socially unacceptable...
Housing - well, I never realized it before - I suppose I have always had issues - more like fears, really. I've moved a great deal in my life. I once owned a flat in London, UK.. When I came back to North America, I had a bit of a hard time finding somewhere to live, and eventually ended up living common law.. It seems I've lived in other people's houses for ever.
Now the urge to move is enormous, and I want to have my own place, I have dreams of owning a house, but can only afford something old that needs a lot of work doing to it, and it all seems so futile. I have the opportunity now.., but am so full of dread at the notion of taking on all that responsibility. And I wonder if really, being in this part of the world, it is only exacerbating the natal issue of Chiron in the 4th., yes, definitely being triggered by Pluto at the IC. I sometimes wonder if I should return to Europe, where I was actually much happier.
The IC - one's roots - and how fundamental having a place to live is to life... Something needs healing, and not just for myself...
All that sounds very Chiron like, which is why I first wanted to check on how that natal Chiron placement has manifested itself before venturing on the current transits, etc. This is a very common issue that I have seen with people with Chiron in the 4th, and both you and Poshslob just added onto those statistics. Transiting planets are mainly triggers, whilst natal placements show (prevailing) issues that continue somewhat like a sequel through life, and, which are like the native's task to resolve in his life. The transits give you the chance to do it, if you use them, ie. So, for instance, with you, Reedstar, the urge to own (have) a place of your very own is strong, as you seek to heal that wound of not knowing "where I belong" and often feeling that you have "lived in other people's houses for ever". The current Pluto transit at the IC (your home) is bringing all such ever-prevalent issues to the forefront again, or, as you said, "it seems right now to be really in my face". But, deep and intense Pluto never just scratches the surface, so deeper issues about "the whole family history of being a european immigrant family, cut off from our ancestral roots" (all linked with the IC) are now coming up, so you may confront them throughly and once and for all. With Pluto now marching right over your IC and by and by your 4th house, you can be sure that its transit will thoroughly cleanse this part of your life and be transformational experience. Of course, other factors, such as the prog-Moon-Ura aspect might also act as catalysts.

Btw, I noticed that you have a very elevated Uranus - in the 10th house of professional, but also public life - so yes, you will be confronted with sudden Uranian changes and the urge to break free, which will all be quite connected to your public image/status in life. Then, with that Uranus opposing your Mars in the 4th, there will always be enormous energy and even inconsistency (typical of these two planets) attached to the 10th-4th plane. I am wondering, if you hadn't actually left for North America due to work (?).
Further, with the Moon - known for its fluctuating tendencies - also quite elevated in your chart, and placed in the 9th (things and places foreign; long travels), it will be nothing extraordinary, if you oscillated between your real home and foreign homes. This is another theme in your life. Note also how that Moon (home and family, mother) aspects both Venus (lord of 9th and placed in the natural sign of the 9th: Sag) and Saturn (lord of 4th), and Saturn (lord of 4th-home) sits in your 1st house, thus making home a very prominent issue in your life.

:)AQ7
 

reedstar

Member
This is a very common issue that I have seen with people with Chiron in the 4th, and both you and Poshslob just added onto those statistics. ...

So, for instance, with you, Reedstar, the urge to own (have) a place of your very own is strong, as you seek to heal that wound of not knowing "where I belong" and often feeling that you have "lived in other people's houses for ever".

:)AQ7

This is so spot on - it really helps when things that are floating around in my mind are actually put down in writing...A sense of belonging is indeed what it comes down to - not knowing even where I can be at home.

"I am wondering, if you hadn't actually left for North America due to work (?)."

Yes! I never associated this with Ura in 10 - the work in London had dried up and I was feeling homesick :sad: - and I've never really figured out what I gained by the move, either.

"Saturn (lord of 4th-home) sits in your 1st house, thus making home a very prominent issue in your life"

...as well as Cancer on MC, if the MC represents (among other things) what we are striving to realize or achieve in life.

I've never got married or had children, I don't have a family of my own, and I've never felt that absence as keenly as I do now. My common law partner was my home and family, and that loss has cut me to the core of my being. An esoteric astrologer told me once that my move back to North America may have had to do with releasing karma. Maybe I had to have this experience to expose this "wound" in all its glory so it can be dealt with and released.

How to handle this at the moment is at the forefront of my mind.

Everything you describe here sounds like Pluto is doing its work!!!
Don't panic. Pluto is probably asking you to firstly examine your past (as you are now doing) to see how it impacts on your beliefs and expectations, and then when you least expect it, a chink of light will shine through, and your perspective will change in some way. Perhaps an option you had not considered will present itself - but timing is everything.

Everything you say, R4ven is so accurate. I've never really looked at this issue head on, though it has always been there in the background.

I do hope you are right about "a chink of light" shining through. I began to realize this morning that maybe I need to just sit tight and accept my present situation (as Eckhart Tolle says) and wait for things to work themselves through, (yes, timing!!) while continuing to do this enormous amount of inner work that verges on being quite overwhelming. I wonder if the route to healing is through embracing this family wound instead of trying to make it go away.

What keeps going through my mind is the image that Liz Greene describes in "Stealing Fire" - the link between Chiron and Prometheus (Uranus) - and the healing comes from being willing to give something up, for it may get wrested from my hands anyway. Perhaps it has something to do with that career/status/success thing...Definitely food for thought.
 

reedstar

Member
I am wondering, if you hadn't actually left for North America due to work (?).

:)AQ7

PS

It suddenly came to me when I woke up this morning that - of course - Chiron in Capricorn - one of the main reasons I can't find anywhere to live right now is because of my work! Long story...

Just want to thank everyone who has helped me with this. It's been tremendously useful. I'm continuing to learn...
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
I began to realize this morning that maybe I need to just sit tight and accept my present situation (as Eckhart Tolle says) and wait for things to work themselves through, (yes, timing!!) while continuing to do this enormous amount of inner work that verges on being quite overwhelming. I wonder if the route to healing is through embracing this family wound instead of trying to make it go away.
Yes, yes, yes to that paragraph, and in particular the sentence I highlighted!! Just recognising this is HUGE. Chiron wounds never go away - they just transmute into another shape/person/place/time.

A few posts ago you were contemplating moving countries in order to `escape' it. Can't be done, and nor should it. You were born with this wound to face & embrace, so face & embrace it you must!! It's only when you are pushing it away, or trying hard to look the other way that this wound slaps you so hard that it hurts!! When you open your (metaphoric) doors and commune with this wound, then the pain and strain it creates can be lessened, so much so that you will eventually be able to live with it quite comfortably.
 
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reedstar

Member
Chiron wounds never go away - they just transmute into another shape/person/place/time.

Wow, thank you for this, R4VEN, a timely reminder of how these things actually play out in life.
A few posts ago you were contemplating moving countries in order to `escape' it. Can't be done, and nor should it. You were born with this wound to face & embrace, so face & embrace it you must!! It's only when you are pushing it away, or trying hard to look the other way that this wound slaps you so hard that it hurts!!
I've certainly been a great one for running away all my life, so I guess it is time to "face the music" - I'm so heartily weary of chewing on the dilemma of living in one city and working part-time in a town 2 1/2 hours drive away - which is at the root of all this, trying to decide where to go and what to do for the best.

But my eyes have really been opened thanks to this discussion, and I think I just need to allow the energy that is tied up in this wound to work its way into my life and find a positive expression, rather than trying to impose my will on it. It isn't easy - I approach this whole thing as a spiritual practice, it's the only way I can handle it. Understanding, as you say, is HUGE, and for that I am very thankful.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
I've certainly been a great one for running away all my life, so I guess it is time to "face the music" - I'm so heartily weary of chewing on the dilemma of living in one city and working part-time in a town 2 1/2 hours drive away - which is at the root of all this, trying to decide where to go and what to do for the best.

But my eyes have really been opened thanks to this discussion, and I think I just need to allow the energy that is tied up in this wound to work its way into my life and find a positive expression, rather than trying to impose my will on it. It isn't easy - I approach this whole thing as a spiritual practice, it's the only way I can handle it. Understanding, as you say, is HUGE, and for that I am very thankful.
You even sound different in your above post to the way you were in `running away' mode in your first couple of posts.

Having given living-with-Chiron advice to you, reedstar, I have just recognised my own need to heed my own advice!!
During the past 18 months I've been in and out of my first Chiron square since my Chiron return, and doing it quite tough also. Was talking to a friend re a group of people in my life - who have been quite close in, space-wise, for the past 3-4 years - from whom I would dearly love to escape (I've even contemplated murder - that's how bad it has been at times!!), when I realised that in the process of having to deal with these people, I have managed to develop some quite valuable life techniques. Sure, would loved to have run away, but couldn't, so have had to deal with the situation in a different way, a way which takes my own power back (I have Chiron in Scorpio in 10th, thus the power-issues). I've had to face and deal with situations which I'd normally walk from, from which I've desperately wanted to escape, but in not being able to escape, I have managed to do the `work' anyway, and I'm no longer petrified of what these crazy people will do next.

So, reedstar, in helping you I have managed to recognise what's been going on in my own life, so thanks for that. That is how Chiron in meant to work.
 

reedstar

Member
You even sound different in your above post to the way you were in `running away' mode in your first couple of posts.

Having given living-with-Chiron advice to you, reedstar, I have just recognised my own need to heed my own advice!!


So, reedstar, in helping you I have managed to recognise what's been going on in my own life, so thanks for that. That is how Chiron is meant to work.
This is what I find so mind-blowing about this forum. I've learned more about astrology in the past week since I joined than in the past 10 years!!

But I've taken your advice very much to heart, and I realize there may be even deeper aspects to this Chiron in 4 thing than I originally thought. There are the physical expressions, but these are perhaps the tip of an iceberg.

eg.
- Not having a place of my own - Chiron in 4 (though I did once own my own flat! for 9 years!)
- buying an old house and fixing it up - Chiron in 4
- moving away from my family (being in exile...) Chiron in 4
- not having a family of my own - Chiron in 4
- being terrified of being on my own - Chiron in 4
- returning to my birth town to heal something deep in me - Chiron in 4

No matter what I decide, I can't escape the essential nature of this placement. There may be family wounds but I'm not sure why these are preventing me from finding somewhere to live. So.

2 questions:
1. Would one deliberately choose to live in a part of the world where Chiron (or Pluto) was on the IC or in the 4th? (I've known two people who moved to places where Plu was in the 10th and were not able to find/do their work) On the other hand, if I need to work something out, then returning to the place of my birth may be where I have to do it.

2. What is it that really needs healing here? I think I am beginning to get a glimmering of that - something to do with emotional security. Not looking outside myself for something that is missing on the inside. Because the 4th is also about the emotional realm, feeling safe and secure, rooted and anchored in life. And this particular plant can't seem to find the right soil...
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
2 questions:
1. Would one deliberately choose to live in a part of the world where Chiron (or Pluto) was on the IC or in the 4th? (I've known two people who moved to places where Plu was in the 10th and were not able to find/do their work) On the other hand, if I need to work something out, then returning to the place of my birth may be where I have to do it.

2. What is it that really needs healing here? I think I am beginning to get a glimmering of that - something to do with emotional security. Not looking outside myself for something that is missing on the inside. Because the 4th is also about the emotional realm, feeling safe and secure, rooted and anchored in life. And this particular plant can't seem to find the right soil...
In response to question 1:
I'd look at your place of birth. Recently, I found myself lost for days whilst I looked up and down the streets of the town where I was born using Google maps. I spent days doing this, and didn't know why until an issue coalesced in my conscious mind, and yes, the issue had its origins in the town where I was born. Even though this place is only 50km away, I found it easier to `visit' it in the virtual world.
To consciously move somewhere because of an astrological placement - particularly to avoid something astrologically - sounds like tempting fate a little too much.
In the end, you may be living where you have to be for whatever reason, and you may not know this reason until later on.

In response to question 2:
You have quite adequately answered your own question!
Chiron questions are never as relevant as the answers....................
By that I mean that you may not even know what the question is until you have discovered some of the answers.
You cannot pre-empt Chiron wounds/healing. Sometimes you just need to follow your nose, and see where it leads.
 
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