Chat Thread

Lykanized

Well-known member
This world is interconnected and our interactions here are in some way or another correlated to the progress of our world in large. Therefore collective movements can be discerned in our discussions here.

Y
I have my ideals and I have visions for what I want to create and how I want to affect people. It's true we are interconnected and these interactions, in theory, could somehow correlate to something much grander, but I don't think the world will be missing so much if you and I don't have an exchange today
 

ynnest

Well-known member
I have my ideals and I have visions for what I want to create and how I want to affect people. It's true we are interconnected and these interactions, in theory, could somehow correlate to something much grander, but I don't think the world will be missing so much if you and I don't have an exchange today

Why would you like to affect people? Isn't it enough if you for example give advice and then let them choose themselves?

Y
 

Starsareround

Well-known member
I just don’t feel the planet can sustain an organic meat and dairy industry so I’m pulling my money out of the whole circus.

What I mean by that, is that we just don’t have enough global space or resources to humanely nd organically raise meat and dairy for all or even most

Just too many people on the planet now to keep on eating animals and their products, regardless of whether they are organic or no. Especially in the quantities we do.
 

Dirius

Well-known member
Yes, I’m vegan. I can’t stand to contribute to the meat/dairy industry. It’s cruel.
It sincerely is. Right now there is the mass slaughter of all these animals who are seen as products and not sentient beings.

Dolphins and whales swimming for their lives when they are smart enough to have personality and empathy.

It’s soul destroying to think about.

I’m a vegetarian (not vegan) are you?

You two should know that the agriculture industry also kills millions of animals each year in order to grow and harvest all the vegetables that are needed to support the "vegan" movement. Birds, small mammals, insects, etc. all die from pesticides or machines. So the truth is that, going vegan or vegetarian just exchanges one gruesome animal death for another one.

Furthermore, lets be realistic and acknowledge that most animals "in the wild" also suffer from violent deaths. Or do you truly believe that "wild cows" wouldn't die from disease, starvation, and predators in the wild? In fact 95% of new-born animals in the wild die before they can reach maturity.

The true solution, and what we humans can actually do for the good of animals, is to remove the cruelty out of it. We don't need to treat animals the way we do, we can develop practices that are less harming to them, we don't have to keep them in cages their entire lives. Our technology could allow us to provide animals with a better quality of life, a lesser degree of suffering before we consume them, and yet still eat them. Its best to advocate for better practices and the better treatment of animals. Going vegan doesn't help the animal kingdom at all. It is a movement that is based on a lie perpetuated by some activists.
 

Starsareround

Well-known member
You two should know that the agriculture industry also kills millions of animals each year in order to grow and harvest all the vegetables that are needed to support the "vegan" movement. Birds, small mammals, insects, etc. all die from pesticides or machines. So the truth is that, going vegan or vegetarian just exchanges one gruesome animal death for another one.

Furthermore, lets be realistic and acknowledge that most animals "in the wild" also suffer from violent deaths. Or do you truly believe that "wild cows" wouldn't die from disease, starvation, and predators in the wild? In fact 95% of new-born animals in the wild die before they can reach maturity.

The true solution, and what we humans can actually do for the good of animals, is to remove the cruelty out of it. We don't need to treat animals the way we do, we can develop practices that are less harming to them, we don't have to keep them in cages their entire lives. Our technology could allow us to provide animals with a better quality of life, a lesser degree of suffering before we consume them, and yet still eat them. Its best to advocate for better practices and the better treatment of animals. Going vegan doesn't help the animal kingdom at all. It is a movement that is based on a lie perpetuated by some activists.

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/78/3/660S/4690010
Yeah, like these activists at the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition?

Yes, all diets are harmful as they CONSUME resources. But some are more impactful than others. Plus, like I said, I just like eating this way.
 

Dirius

Well-known member
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/78/3/660S/4690010
Yeah, like these activists at the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition?

Yes, all diets are harmful as they CONSUME resources. But some are more impactful than others. Plus, like I said, I just like eating this way.

Removing "cruelty" from the meat industry would mean reducing our production of meat significantly by making the quality of life of animals better instead of treating them as objects in factory farming. By analogy, I don't have an opposition towards the study you linked.

However it has little to do with your original point about animal cruelty, in which the claim is that the vegan movement somehow spares animals from suffering. It does not.
 

david starling

Well-known member
(tropical) Age of Capricorn: Key word USE, synonym CONSUME. This Age is in its culminating stage, nearing the end. With sign-blending, just 2.2 degrees to go, before the (tropical) Aquarian Age begins. So, Aquarius is in the mix, but Capricorn is still the dominant Sign.
(tropical) Age of Aquarius: Key word KNOWING, synonym WISDOM. This Age will get off to an immediate start, based on a Modality pattern that checks out nicely on the timeline of Western History. Fixed-sign Ages become effective right away, Mutables are most effective in the middle portion, and Cardinal-sign Ages, like the one we're in now, exert their greatest influence near the end.
So, now you know why Western Civilization is consuming the Earth. This Saturn-ruled, Capricornian Age influence is in everyone's (tropical) Chart, and we each respond differently. What some see as technological and economic "Progress", others see as destruction of the Environment, and extinction of species. Unfortunately, the technocrats and corporatists are running the show, and the vast majority is just going along for the ride. Which leaves the rest of us worried and depressed, and looking for something to do that might help. The closer the Aquarian Age gets, the more that can be done to provide an alternative to the madness.

Nice chatting with you! :biggrin:
 
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Starsareround

Well-known member
Removing "cruelty" from the meat industry would mean reducing our production of meat significantly by making the quality of life of animals better instead of treating them as objects in factory farming. By analogy, I don't have an opposition towards the study you linked.

However it has little to do with your original point about animal cruelty, in which the claim is that the vegan movement somehow spares animals from suffering. It does not.

I can’t be drawn into a serious debate on this one atm but let me clarify that the benefits of being vegan are multiple, not just for the consumer but the general environment including animals. The discussion veered into territory of how sustainable it is for the planet to continue to support the meat and dairy industry. The industry is also a big contributor to pollution as well as using more resources than plant farming. In that way, it has a negative impact on all of our habitats. But animal cruelty in the meat and dairy industry is a lot more horrible than just killing and consuming animals, they are literally tortured and deformed by genetic engineering and corporate farm practices that do not resemble anything like old fashioned family farm practices.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
I believe lumping the meat and dairy industries together is a mistake. The meat industry is about wholesale slaughter, and the dairy industry sustains the lives of animals. Cruelty and unhealthy practices in the dairy industry can be gradually eliminated, and is already on the decline.
 

Starsareround

Well-known member
Sounds like you're describing factory-farms. I don't buy dairy from them.

Okay but what about food products that are made from factory farmed dairy that you might buy unwittingly at the grocery store or restaurant? It’s justveasier for me to avoid it. I feel good about that choice, but I also respect differing opinions. There’s lots of other ethical ways to approach diet than mine. This is what I feel good about and what works for me. I like to have the opportunity to discuss why I think this is a conscientious choice, my thoughts on this are flexible but ethically I like to think about how realistic my personal solutions are in a broader context. If we changed all factory farms back to organic, family farms with ethical animal welfare practices, we’d never have enough farm land to do that and supply for all the demand. To me, that’s not realistic to think we can return large scale to old farming practices.
 

david starling

Well-known member
The problem, as I see it, is the addiction to meat-eating. It's almost religious in some ways. When Oprah Winfrey, a billionaire ce!ebrity, told people that beef was bad for their health, she had to run for cover, and even apologize. Killing turkeys for "Thanksgiving" is a savage ritual that's considered perfectly normal in our culture. These are the times in which we're living. :pinched:
 

Starsareround

Well-known member
I agree and actually if people just backed off on the amount of meat they ate, it would be impactful. I’m not even gonna get started with the health benefits of doing this, I know everyone thinks vegans are really weak, but I am naturally a muscle builder and put on weight easily, so a very light diet is important so I don’t become unhealthily overweight. I get my blood tested regularly and I always have high iron and hemoglobin and B12. It’s just a great diet for some people (like me!)

I do think it’s possible that a vegan diet will not work for some people, some folks need more protein and iron.
 
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