Charisma

[tsquare]

Please read "Leaders and Followers in a Dangerous World" by Jerrold. M. Post

Interesting, I may check that out.....
Here's one you may like,
The True Believer--Eric Hoffer.

Summary from Wickipedia...
Hoffer argues that mass movements such as Fascism and Communism spread by promising a glorious future. To be successful, these mass movements need the adherents to be willing to sacrifice themselves and others for the future goals. To do so, mass movements need to devalue both the past and the present. Mass movements appeal to frustrated people who are dissatisfied with their current state, but are capable of a strong belief in the future. As well, mass movements appeal to people who want to escape a flawed self by creating an imaginary self and joining a collective whole. Some categories of people who may be attracted to mass movements include poor people, misfits, and people who feel thwarted in their endeavors. Hoffer quotes extensively from leaders of the Nazi and Communist parties in the early part of the 20th Century, to demonstrate, among other things, that they were competing for adherents from the same pool of people predisposed to support mass movements. Despite the two parties fierce antagonism, they were more likely to gain recruits from their opposing party than from moderates with no affiliation to either.
The book also explores the behavior of mass movements once they become established (or leave the "active phase"). With their collapse of a communal framework people can no longer defeat the feelings of insecurity and uncertainty by belonging to a compact whole. If the isolated individual lacks vast opportunities for personal advancement, development of talents, and action (such as those found on a frontier), he will seek substitutes. These substitutes would be pride instead of self-confidence, memberships in a collective whole like a mass movement, absolute certainty instead of understanding.
Hoffer does not take an exclusively negative view of "true believers" and the mass movements they begin. Examples he gives of positive true believers are Abraham Lincoln and Gandhi. There are also positive reflections in the final sentence of the book. There have been 23 editions of The True Believer published between 1951 and 2002.

=====




I saw this a while back and was glad I fould it again....
jupiter in scorpio...Gods or Monsters...interesting write up...
On cult leaders and Carisma.....

http://www.edtamplin.com/cycles/Jupiter_in_Scorpio.htm

 

[Undo]

Reading through Astrology For Dummies, regarding house placements for charisma indications:

any planets conjunct the Midheaven/ 10th house can add to charisma- perhaps Jupiter placed( lucky in the public eye, very public job) maybe Mars
any planets conjunct the Ascendant. I have read that venus conjunct ascendant produces immense beauty: Angelina Jolie is said to have this conjunction.
Neptune in the first house is said to create glamour, mystique( Marilyn Monroe had Leo Ascendant, with Neptune right there, too.
Sun conjunct Ascendant ( sun=Leo here, perhaps: spoonsful of charisma ).

Although, I wouldn't regard Paris Hilton as charismatic (No way) she has neptune on her ascendant. I'll quote the sentence which states more revealingly: " And sure enough she has some Leo going on: The Moon and the North Node in the eighth house of sex and other people's money. Her fame was no accident" ( Astrology for Dummies, p 274).
:38:

Venus (Gemini, 10th) conjunct Ascendant (Leo). Where's my beauty?

As someone else said, Eros also adds charisma, as does Black Moon Lilith especially in the 10th house, which is said to aid in manipulating people.

 

[Claire19]

What do people think are the best indicators (signs, aspects, houses, etc.) of charisma? Basically people who are charming, magnetic, able to persuade other people to do things etc.

The magnetic signs are the fixed signs. Scorpio, Aquarius, Leo and Taurus.
Charm belongs to Libra, also Gemini can talk anyone into anything. Neptune is for glamour, seduction and Pluto for intensity and passion.

 

[Leone]

The magnetic signs are the fixed signs. Scorpio, Aquarius, Leo and Taurus.
Charm belongs to Libra, also Gemini can talk anyone into anything minus Scorpio. Neptune is for glamour, seduction and Pluto for intensity and passion.

fixed for truth

 

[4leafclovah]

Sounds to me like charisma is like a perfect recipe, but it takes just the right amount of elements and aspects mixed in the bowl to create the energy. Pretty cool. I do believe there are many types of charismatic people so there must be other telling details in the chart for each indiviual case.

 

[Hey]

Sun and Pluto aspects. People have an instant reaction to you.
Like they say, it's a gut feeling, and you don't know why you love or hate them. You just get a strong feeling when you see them.
Also, many planets in aspect to the ascendant. Your ascendant is your projection, and with many planets aspecting it, you're conveying a lot of things. People become quite interested.

 

[smilingsteph]

Hey guys there are so many things to look at here!
The word charisma (from the Greek word χάρισμα (kharisma), "gift" or "divine favor," from kharizesthai, "to favor," from kharis, "favor": see also charism, Charis) refers to a rare trait found in certain human personalities usually including extreme charm and a 'magnetic' quality of personality and/or appearance along with innate and powerfully sophisticated personal communicability and persuasiveness.
Charm
Magnetism
communicability and persuasiveness
Including both personality and looks

So hard to define, depends on what one finds charismatic....a leader, laid back, funloving, attractive

I think one that has power is charismatic, so that to me would be someone with a strong pluto, or strong fixed signs.

 

[leila flamenca]

Some really good points, dourage and others.

The fact is, on the other side of the coin, charisma doesn't always have a beautiful face, as the post on facism so excellently suggests. Charisma can definitely be what others think of you- i've seen this in the workplace, where somehow certain individuals are put on huge pedestals- they seem to be flavour of the month, and others follow them. There is much to be said about people wanting to follow someone and worshipping- that may say more about poor self-esteem, if anything.

Charisma can be extremely dangerous, as we see in politics and war. We 're not even listening to, or questioning the messages, but following blindly. And when one actuallu dissents against all this, this is where power gets truly ugly.... and it still goes on. There's a whole list of charismatic leaders who've certainly wronged humanity...... All that glitters is not gold.. I guess you can say the same for glamour.

Ask yourself, why am i so enamoured of a celebrity or a politician- are they here for the common good or do I need to lost in total admiration/lust, while they do unspeakable things in my name!!


Nothing wrong with crushes and infatuation, but when charisma creates such power abuse and so on, you have to wonder why society waxes so lyrical about it. Let's face it, if everyone was so struck in wonder at our every word, I think we wouldn't even know the meaning of the word humility....!! just a thought..

Do I really need a huge following?!! heehee ( very indulgent for the ego, but think of the responsibility). And a good leader ( and I'm not talking about charisma, here) brings out the best in people, sees the whole picture, as well as the details, can make difficult decisions, doesn't bully, or abuse their power, and what's more has to have the humility to understand the responsibility he or she has been given.....



I think everyone has the ability to be charming and winsome- we all do it- and show our best sides- maybe some more than others. But i think it is important to say, that we are all loveable, complex human beings , without charisma.....

 

[leila flamenca]

Sun and Pluto aspects. People have an instant reaction to you.
Like they say, it's a gut feeling, and you don't know why you love or hate them. You just get a strong feeling when you see them.
Also, many planets in aspect to the ascendant. Your ascendant is your projection, and with many planets aspecting it, you're conveying a lot of things. People become quite interested.

I think that is true. Is it usually Pluto squares, opposites or trines, though? Or all three? Is it possibe to, that you reject that Pluto side of you, others will react towards in that way, you totally reject - as in projection?

 

[4leafclovah]

I agree with Pluto/Scorpio being important to charisma. In order to be charismatic you need drive(Mars) regardless of what you are charismatic about. Maybe a strong Mars or Pluto is essential then? Fire is a must too, I think..

 

[Hey]

I think that is true. Is it usually Pluto squares, opposites or trines, though? Or all three? Is it possibe to, that you reject that Pluto side of you, others will react towards in that way, you totally reject - as in projection?

Possibly. All aspects count, but the most significant ones that pop out at you are the conjunction, square, and opposition.

 

[rebecca]

Jupiter or venus that are well aspected in the first house, are the most obvious forms of instant charm. There are other levels of charm that come through the other houses when uncovered, but not always obvious or immediate.

 

[siren1111]

I have Venus Conjunct Pluto-11 degrees in the 1st house.
Also in the First House, I have Vesta. My sun sign is Leo.

The mystery/depth/intrigue card in my life has definitely helped my romantic attachments! Could it be charisma? Sometimes I feel it but really have to tune into it.

 

[Hey]

What about Chiron in the tenth house?
Chiron is said to have magical feelings, bringing about some magical healing.

 

[junetown]

Charisma? I have none of that. At least not yet, if I ever get it I hope I don't abuse it.

I don't know that charisma is even going to be easy to look for because people react to it so differently, I have found that some people who think they have it - or even know they have it - just become sort of ... creepy, manipulative, over the top, and even one guy would spread around fake prophetic information that he made up in his head. (always reminds me of a hitler wannabe, maybe without them realizing it.)

they may find that they can't keep friends or relationships. because it's just too much! it turns everyone away, and no one can take them seriously any longer. (i feel for this, i don't enjoy feeling like no one takes me seriously)

i think it's more common in, say, teenagers who realize they have a lot of charisma though. i'm speaking from some bad experiences with people around those ages and i'm sure eventually people can grow out of it. feeling "powerful" from being so charismatic can be dangerous, but usually just looks silly.

anyway, that's not the point.


Charm, yes, I can pull that out off when I need to.

my chart has some similarities to the notable names mentioned, if anyone wants to take a look. mostly regarding jupiter and not so much pluto.

keep in mind, i said I am NOT charismatic. lol. i'm shy and awkward at first, but charming - yes i can be. genuine, pretty much. definitely not smooth and all of the good stuff that comes with well maintained charisma. that would be nice, though.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&gif=astro_2gw_02_megan.3953.26251.gif&res=100&va=&cid=wntfilelkDSYZ-u1213980415

 

[Arthur Fomalhaut]

Wanting to be charismatic is a sure sign you are not.

 

[junetown]

Wanting to be charismatic is a sure sign you are not.

no doubt. if you're referring to me, i don't think i have any sort of that. i only meant to post my chart for people who might be researching or studying the aspects discussed earlier.

but, you probably weren't talking to me anyway.

 

[Claire19]

I have Venus Conjunct Pluto-11 degrees in the 1st house.
Also in the First House, I have Vesta. My sun sign is Leo.

The mystery/depth/intrigue card in my life has definitely helped my romantic attachments! Could it be charisma? Sometimes I feel it but really have to tune into it.

I think charisma is something that is either there or it isnt and you neednt be very good looking to possess it. However the aspects you describe are strong indicators I feel. I have similar and I know that if I tuned into it I could in my younger days attract whoever I wanted especially when wearing seductive clothing. Men are visual creatures. The downside is that you attract also those you dont want!!

 

[MamaMinnee]

I think charisma is something that is either there or it isn't and you needn't be very good looking to possess it.

I completely agree!

With Venus or Jupiter in the first, people cannot help but like you and want to engage you, no matter what you look like {although generally, the appearance will not be horrible}. However, being enthralled by you, either positively or negatively, well that is Pluto.

I suppose it depends on how one perceives charisma.

 

[Modcleopatra]

I have to say that this post has definitely given me an ego boost! I have a sextile from Jupiter to a my moon, and a trine to my sun!

Question: does mars trine venus add charm and charisma? what about mercury trine jupiter?