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Several personality traits I consider magnetic, imho:

Self - control (not SENSE control). This trait drives me wild. Very, very few have it. Shows a mastery over the body. Strong mind. Strong saturn maybe?

Quietness - most charming to me. Quiet people usually (to me) are much more magnetic than bar clowns or yappers. I tend to favor earth and water signs for this trait. The eyes are usually more calm in the quiet person. I also love when a quiet person smiles.

Reserve - someone who doesn't blab about their failures and other people. Also, doesn't talk much about themselves.

When I look at the traits, how 'bout Saturn playing a role in charisma? Lots of strong religious figures/Gurus are Caps..... Blessings, tb


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Now don't take this as anything definitive, but I had a look through the astrodatabank and looked up some famous leaders who I definitely know were/are extremely charismatic, mainly because history books/news articles talk about their personal charisma all the time. The vast majority of the people in the databank are movie/pop stars so I didn't have many to work with, but I got a sample of 5: Tony Blair, the Dalai Lama, Gandhi, Hitler and Reagan. The sample is far too small to make any definite conclusions about, but I thought it would be interesting anyhow. Note I'm skipping minor aspects like the inconjunct and semi-sextile.

This idea came to me when I was casually looking at Hitler's chart and Gandhi's and I thought, hmmm, there's something similar here. So I thought I would go through and test the idea more thoroughly just in case it was a coincidence. The similarity is contact between the luminaries and Jupiter.

3 of the 5 above charismatic leaders have some contact between the Sun and Jupiter - the Dalai Lama has a trine, Hitler has a trine and Reagan has a square. For Blair, the Sun and Jupiter are in the same sign and house but you would need a 14 degree orb for a conjunction. Jupiter is however 5 degree away from Blair's Gemini ascendant.

4 out of 5 of the above charismatic leaders have a contact between the Moon and Jupiter. Once again Blair is the odd one out. The Dalai Lama has a sextile, Gandhi has a square, Hitler has a conjunction and Reagan has an opposition.

There doesn't seem to be any pattern about the sign of the ascendant.

For Venus, 4 out of 5 had Venus in front of their Sun (the exception being once again Blair). For Mercury 4 out of 5 had Mercury behind their Sun (except Gandhi this time). The only one with either Mercury or Venus retrograde is Hitler who has Venus retrograde.

In terms of aspects to Venus, there is a variety of different ones as you can imagine. However 4 out of the 5 have one particular Venus aspect in common - that is, Venus and Mars (2 conjunctions, 2 sextiles). The exception is the Dalai Lama (well good thing he is a celibate Buddhist monk...).

I checked the luminaries and Pluto since Pluto gets mentioned a lot. Unfortunately I see little sign of a Pluto influence. Only 1 out of 5 had the Sun aspecting Pluto (Blair with a square). Only Gandhi had the Moon aspecting Pluto (square). None of the group had Pluto rising. Only one had Pluto in the 1st house at all though not conjunct the ascendant or even the closest sign in the 1st house to the ascendant (the Dalai Lama) and only one had Pluto aspecting the ascendant (Reagan, square with a 4 degree orb). I don't see evidence of Pluto playing much of a role at all.

Hmmm. I guess another problem with what I'm doing here is what I am finding is not necessarily related to charisma but to other qualities that made them famous leaders but oh well.

Some information on charisma from wikipedia:

Despite the strong emotions they so often induce in others, charismatic individuals generally project unusual calmness, confidence, assertiveness, dominance, authenticity, and focus, and almost always possess superb communication and/or oratorical skills. To the early Greeks, charisma was said to be "a divine favor/gift" or "gift of grace," implying that this 'divine quality' was an inborn trait; in modern times, however, many believe it can be taught and/or learned, despite the persistent inability to accurately define or even fully understand the concept. Others disagree with this assertion and still maintain that it is an inborn trait and that it cannot be either learned, taught, or 'gained.'

The German sociologist Max Weber defined charismatic authority to be one of three forms of authority, the other two being traditional (feudal) authority and legal or rational authority. According to Weber, charisma is defined thus:

a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which s/he is "set apart" from ordinary people and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These as such are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as divine in origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader.[2]

Charisma has also been studied as a set of behaviors/traits; for example, a modern psychological approach posits that charisma is basically aggregative, a conglomeration of distinct personality traits that meld well in certain individuals to form the broad quality known as charisma or "personal magnetism."

Theatrically, charisma can sometimes be "performed" on-stage and in films, and is encapsulated in both verbal and non-verbal communication.

Professor Richard Wiseman says that a charismatic person has three attributes:

1. they feel emotions themselves quite strongly;
2. they induce them in others;
3. and they are impervious to the influences of other charismatic people.

Oh yeah, I found some charts for some other famous leaders who were well known for being charismatic. So how do they fit in with the above stuff already observed?

Napoleon Bonaparte:

Sun squares Jupiter
Mercury behind the Sun, but Venus is also behind the sun, neither retrograde
Venus Mars sextile
no link between Pluto and luminaries or ascendant


Moon trine Jupiter
Mercury behind, Venus in Front, neither retrograde
no aspect between Venus and Mars (they're in the same house!)
no aspect between Pluto and the luminaries or ascendant

Martin Luther King:

Sun square Jupiter
Both Mercury and Venus ahead of Sun, neither retrograde
no aspect between Venus and Mars
Pluto aspects both Sun and Moon

George Washington:

No aspect between Luminaries and Jupiter (well if you want to use a 9 degree orb you can get a Moon square Jupiter)
Venus in front of Sun and Mercury behind, neither retrograde
Venus trine Mars
Moon square Pluto

Bill Clinton

Sun sextile Jupiter
Mercury behind, Venus in front, neither retrograde
Mars conjunct Venus (with a 5 degree orb)
Pluto square Moon

Steve Jobs (how can I leave out the man who is described as having as having his own reality distortion field?)

Sun SESQUIQUADRATE Jupiter (since I'm counting the sextile, I guess the semi-square and sesquiquadrate are OK too since I think they are the same strength as the sextile?)
Both Mercury and Venus behind the Sun. Mercury is retrograde.
No aspect between Venus and Mars
Pluto trine Moon

Richard Branson

Moon opposes Jupiter
Mercury in front and Venus behind, neither retrograde
Venus trine Mars
No aspect between Pluto and luminaries but Pluto conjunct Asc

So out of 12 charismatic leaders, you have 10 (11 if you count Washington with the 9 degree orb) who have at least one contact between a luminary and Jupiter. 8 out of 12 with Venus in front of the Sun. 9 out of 12 with Mercury behind the Sun. There is one Mercury retrograde (Steve Jobs) and only one Venus retrograde (Hitler). 6 out of 12 have an aspect to Pluto from the luminaries (though Branson does have Pluto rising). 8 out of 12 have either a conjunction or soft aspect between Venus and Mars (no hard aspects? Why?).

The strongest signs of charismatic leadership by far seems to be at least one of the luminaries contacting Jupiter and no retrogrades in either Mercury or Venus [actually I'm not sure about this now as I've just realized that 80% of the time Mercury is direct and Venus doesn't retrograde often so it's easily possible that 11 out of 12 people in a random sample would have neither Mercury or Venus retrograde]. Signs of moderate strength seem to be Venus in front of the Sun and Mercury behind, conjunction or soft contact between Venus and Mars. Maybe Pluto contacting a luminary or Pluto rising could be considered a moderate strength indicator too.

For comparison, 8 out of 12 of the above leaders have some contact between the luminaries and Uranus (maybe that has something to do with charisma too?). 4 out of the 12 have some contact between the luminaries and Saturn. Neptune or Venus contacts to the luminaries occur about half the time or less (can't remember exactly how many) so I don't think they are that important either. So it really does seem as if contact between luminaries and Jupiter and lack of retrogrades in Mercury and Venus are important. Oh and all of them seem to have the Sun in the top half of the chart except for the Dalai Lama (1st house) and Steve Jobs (6th house).
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Great post,Yoi!

Interesting,seems like Pluto is not emplied here as much as I tought.Seeing the contacts between the luminaries and Jupiter was a surprise to me,as I associate more Jupiter with popularity than charisma itself.Being someone with Sun,Moon and Mercury trine Jupiter myself,I've always been blessed with great friends who sincerely like me and are willing to help e and support me in whatever I do,but I'm far from being charismatic!Wish I could have that ability to move and inspire others.

I thought your post is really interesting.Good work!:)

All the best


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Lissa said:
Great post,Yoi!

Interesting,seems like Pluto is not emplied here as much as I tought.Seeing the contacts between the luminaries and Jupiter was a surprise to me,as I associate more Jupiter with popularity than charisma itself.Being someone with Sun,Moon and Mercury trine Jupiter myself,I've always been blessed with great friends who sincerely like me and are willing to help e and support me in whatever I do,but I'm far from being charismatic!Wish I could have that ability to move and inspire others.

I thought your post is really interesting.Good work!:)

All the best

Thanks. I think you mentioned previously you are a Pisces and have Capricorn rising. That would put your Sun in the 3rd house? As I mentioned 10 out of 12 charts I looked at had the Sun above the horizon. The 2 who didn't had theirs just below the horizon. I guess that means you are more concentrated on the inner world than the outer world?


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Oh yeah, by the way, be careful with my results. I did them rather rapidly, I'm depending on the charts that different sources have to be accurate, some of those charts are difficult to read, some don't even have lines for the aspects, and the margin of error must be terrible with a sample size of 12. It also relies on personal bias about charismatic leaders though I try to choose the ones I think most people agree are charismatic. It's not necessarily picking up on the sole trait of charisma, possible adding on, recording errors. I didn't look at all possible combinations and compared them to the ones I singled out though I did try to compare them to some. There is no real control sample (how you can actually get a control sample for something like this is unclear) Oh yeah, and I have the flu :)


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I'm Scorpio with Pluto/Venus conjunction in Scorpio, and a very strongly aspected Mercury, with Taurus rising. Thanks everybody for the self-esteem raising thread! :D

wayne penner

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Yoi said:
What do people think are the best indicators (signs, aspects, houses, etc.) of charisma? Basically people who are charming, magnetic, able to persuade other people to do things etc.

Uranus aspects to Leo planets.

Moon on any angle with a lot of aspects.

Planets conjoined to Regulus or Spica.


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I am a gemini with libra rising and venus in taurus...conjunct the moon opposite pluto in scorpio in the first mars is in cancer conjunct mercury in cancer by 1 degree both trine pluto in scorpio mercury exact, mars by 1 degree...both opposite neptune mercury exact, mars by one degree.....moon and venus are also square jupiter in aquarius in the 5th house,,,,a ton of charisma...I tend to get myself in trouble though like when I was 20 I got a job in a bar by accident doing security and 3 months later I was working at the hottest club in the city...behind the bar....and wasn't even close to having the experience to work there..lets just say it doesn't end (moon venus square to jupiter) anyone wanna have a look at my chart I am really intrested in peoples opinions

sun is also trine pluto and opposite neptune if you look closely and opposite uranus
Yoi said:
Venus and Pluto...interesting. I have Venus in the 8th house. How is this different/similar to a Venus-Pluto connection? It's pretty well aspected: trines with Mars, Jupiter and Chiron though semisquare Mercury and Uranus.

As for Mercury and Scorpio. I have Mercury conjunct Uranus in Scorpio. Persuasive argument and debating have always been one of my strengths (Gemini rising helps here too I guess) so I have to agree with this.

People have mentioned three connections with Venus: Venus-Pluto, Venus-Libra, Venus-Moon. The energies involved are very different so the types of charisma involved should be very different. That is three different "types" of charisma here. Also what effect would house placement and aspects have?

yes, definitely agree with much of what's been said.
What about venus sextile mars or venus trine mars for sexual charisma?Many actors/actresses have this, I think

Or uranus- aspecting mercury for charismatic speakers/orators? what do you think?

Leila Flamenca
Reading through Astrology For Dummies, regarding house placements for charisma indications:

any planets conjunct the Midheaven/ 10th house can add to charisma- perhaps Jupiter placed( lucky in the public eye, very public job) maybe Mars
any planets conjunct the Ascendant. I have read that venus conjunct ascendant produces immense beauty: Angelina Jolie is said to have this conjunction.
Neptune in the first house is said to create glamour, mystique( Marilyn Monroe had Leo Ascendant, with Neptune right there, too.
Sun conjunct Ascendant ( sun=Leo here, perhaps: spoonsful of charisma ;) ).

Although, I wouldn't regard Paris Hilton as charismatic (No way) she has neptune on her ascendant. I'll quote the sentence which states more revealingly: " And sure enough she has some Leo going on: The Moon and the North Node in the eighth house of sex and other people's money. Her fame was no accident" ( Astrology for Dummies, p 274).
I am sure pluto trines to personal planets, must account for a lot, though. Do you think Pluto in the first house would create compelling magnetism/charisma?
How about Sun Conjunct Jupiter?
Venus in the 7th house: sociability, enjoys the company of people?


I have Scorpio Sun, Mercury, and Pluto which are all in conjunction with each other. My Jupiter trines all of those planets too. I'm far from charismatic.
Are you sure? You sound like someone who has a lot of passion and intensity, and is NOT superficial. I think you probabaly draw people in in some way- and when you speak, you don't waste your words either.



leila flamenca said:
Are you sure? You sound like someone who has a lot of passion and intensity, and is NOT superficial. I think you probabaly draw people in in some way- and when you speak, you don't waste your words either.

A bit mysterious.


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Just in response to someone who noted something about charismatic leaders, I study Political Science and just had a course called "Political Psychology":

Please note that Charisma is not a personal trait, it's not a characteritistic of a person, people are MADE charmismatic by folks who follow/adore them.

Usually people with low-self esteem and a Wounded Self develop ways to compensate for their lacks and this is called a "mirror-hungry" image, while people who need a strong leader to look up to have what is called a "ideal-hungry" personality. These folks need a strong leader to get their self-worth from.

Wilner (1984) surveyed the vast (and often contradictory) literature on charmismatic leadership and then defined it as a relationship between a leader and a group of followers that has the following properties:

1. The leader is percieved by the followers as somehow superhuman.
2. The followers blindly believe the leader's statements.
3. The followers unconditionally comply with the leader's directives for action
4. The followers give the leader unqualified emotional support.

Please read "Leaders and Followers in a Dangerous World" by Jerrold. M. Post for further reference.

Regarding Astrology, and Charismatic LEADERS (but maybe you could also use this for "normal" people), I would then look for self-esteem issues in a chart.. like, lot's of squares to the Sun (maybe especially a Sun/Moon square), a weakly placed Moon or Mercury for the emotions and the mind...