change

[pwadm]

The Sufi Bayazid says this about himself:

I was a revolutionary when I was young and all my prayer to God was "Lord give me the energy to change the world."

"As I approached middle age and realized that half my life was gone without my changing a single soul, I changed my prayer to "Lord, give me the grace to change all those who come in contact with me. Just my family and friends, and I shall be satisfied."

"Now that I am an old man and my days are numbered, my only prayer is, "Lord, give me the grace to change myself. "If I had prayed for this right from the start I would not have wasted my life.

Posting this, I obviously pertain to the second group.

 

[smilingsteph]

Being young and naive, I thought I could change the world. I stepped out into the vast newness and was ready to imprint myself onto those that needed my help; to do great things.
However, I realize now that this belief of mine "to change the world" was so narcissistic of me. Who am I to think I am so divine that I can literally change the world, when all the encompasses it, are people and animals with their own karmic path that they need to follow to fufill their destiny in life?
One cannot change that of which is out of our control.
My beliefs have since changed. I view the world as a much smaller place now, and it consists of me. I can only change my world. However, I still believe that it is because of me, whether it be with words, a smile or a helping hand, I can add to the experiences of someone elses world that they live in. I hope to continue to do this everyday, with a positive addition to one's life rather than a negative.
I can help the world, but to change it, well, that is not possible.

 

[archergirl]

At the age of 31, Radu, I would hardly put you into the category of 'middle age'. I mean, I'm a little closer than you are...

AG

 

[Looking to Jupiter]

well i must be on the right track...cos i sit here everday wishing to change certain things about myself.....my problem is when i cant see results....i end up getting distracted and end up trying to change others instead......

what does a person have to do?

 

[pwadm]

well i must be on the right track...cos i sit here everday wishing to change certain things about myself.....my problem is when i cant see results....i end up getting distracted and end up trying to change others instead......

what does a person have to do?

VERY NICE of you to seek transformation through astrology. To anyone and noone: Is that even possible? strange question to ask from a man who owns an astrology website - know however that I'm not very far on the path of transforming oneself.

My beliefs have since changed. I view the world as a much smaller place now, and it consists of me. I can only change my world. However, I still believe that it is because of me, whether it be with words, a smile or a helping hand, I can add to the experiences of someone elses world that they live in.

I'd wish I could see the world like this, finding subjective meanings in "ordinary" life experiences, perceiving life in its entirety merely as my interaction with the universe.
I'm a 10th house Sun person - there is therefore a tendence to try to make a difference in the exterior world I live in. And yet I know that's false, theer is no exterior world, just me and &&& . At least that's what Sufi master Bayazid says and I trust him... So, the right way to live would be..........

 

[EJ53]

The old Sufi Bayazid probably has it right, but I nevertheless prefer the first verse of the Serenity Prayer :-

GOD, grant me the
Serenity
to accept the things
I cannot change
Courage
to change the
things I can
and the
Wisdom
to know the difference.

But, I'd be happy to be granted just the last one.

EJ

 

[Looking to Jupiter]

EJ,

my fave prayer!....and i am so with you on being granted just the last one.....lol...wouldnt that just be fab!....i dont think i would be on the brink of madness all my life if i had that last one sussed.....lol

 

[Neptune Rising]

Thats a lovely reminder that it all starts from within. Thanks Radu and EJ.
NR

 

[Lapis]

Hi Radu....beautiful thread, beautiful message.

I'm a 10th house Sun person too. I'd like to remind you of all the souls you've helped in so many ways with your website and forum, with your knowledge and passion for astrology. You've done far more than it sounds you realize old friend.

 

[EJ53]

Lapis

Hi Radu....beautiful thread, beautiful message.

I'm a 10th house Sun person too. I'd like to remind you of all the souls you've helped in so many ways with your website and forum, with your knowledge and passion for astrology. You've done far more than it sounds you realize old friend.

Well said and so true!

All

I guess Lapis has encapsulated the thoughts of every forum member with his comment here.

EJ

 

[starlink]

I view the world as a big ocean and whenever I do something kind, helpful, positive, like SmilingSteph mentioned,

whether it be with words, a smile or a helping

I see it as causing a rippling (is this the right English word for it?) in the water, going on and on, affecting everything. It does not mean that I can change the world( which even the most powerful head of states dont seem to manage), but I am sure that even one little gesture will ultimately have it's effect on someone and be forwarded to the next person. Everything is connected, the whole universe consists of one big connection (through atoms, molecules of which all things are made up), so that one kind gesture will have it's effect in a more subtle way. The world can only change if humans change, and that starts with ourselves which brings us back to our nativity. I think Astrology is a marvellous tool to discover yourself and how to transform yourself into a better human being.
A good start is therefore being a good example for others in every way.

STarlink

 

[EJ53]

VERY NICE of you to seek transformation through astrology. To anyone and noone: Is that even possible? strange question to ask from a man who owns an astrology website - know however that I'm not very far on the path of transforming oneself.

and,

..I think Astrology is a marvellous tool to discover yourself and how to transform yourself into a better human being.
A good start is therefore being a good example for others in every way.

I agree with Starlink here, but believe the aim is to expose our "shadow" to the conscious mind ("light") and thereby learn to embrace that which we dislike about ourselves as well as that which we do like.

EJ

 

[waybread]

The Sufi Bayazid says this about himself:

I was a revolutionary when I was young and all my prayer to God was "Lord give me the energy to change the world."

"As I approached middle age and realized that half my life was gone without my changing a single soul, I changed my prayer to "Lord, give me the grace to change all those who come in contact with me. Just my family and friends, and I shall be satisfied."

"Now that I am an old man and my days are numbered, my only prayer is, "Lord, give me the grace to change myself. "If I had prayed for this right from the start I would not have wasted my life.

Posting this, I obviously pertain to the second group.

Radu, I belong to the cusp between the second and third group. As the saying goes, I feel "Too soon old, and too late smart."

But I think the concept of "change" has to be unpacked. Yes, the world is a difficult, even horrible place to many people. Surely it needs a lot of change! But deciding that it is my job to change someone actually positions me in an imagined superior position to others. In my mind, I am the wise changer. They get to be the less wise people who need to be fixed. Whether they agree with my scheme or not. Not a pretty picture.

What about reversing the roles? That the people who come into my life are my teachers, and that they change me for the better, whether through positive examples for me to emulate, or through discouraging me from following their wrong footsteps? This maybe gets us closer to your Sufi parable.

There is also an esoteric belief that the world and its inhabitants are perfect just as we are, but that pain and suffering come from not seeing this perfection, and then in attempting to change the illusions that we do see. This belief may suggest giving up the binary ideology that divides phenomena into "dark" or "light", good or bad, virtuous or evil. It may be the binary thinking that causes pain, not the unity of reality itself. The kicker here, however, if we entertain this belief, is that we have to face our own unity, and just possibly, our own OK-ness as children of the universe. Warts and all.

Great questions, Radu! Great responses everyone!

With all good wishes for your journey, Waybread

 

[EJ53]

....But deciding that it is my job to change someone actually positions me in an imagined superior position to others.

Hi Waybread,

I thought the Sufi Master was finally talking about changing only ourselves - so, you maybe fall into the third category after all, as do I.

For me, this is best done by "exposing our shadow" to the conscious mind. Otherwise, it simply continues to be "reflected back to us" through our dealings with others - or, as you put it, our "teachers". But, embracing both that which we like and dislike about ourself - accepting ourselves "warts and all" - is indeed the "kicker" you've described so well.

So, perhaps the best way to get closer to the Sufi parable would be to try to "live by his words" rather than merely intellectuallising them.

EJ

 

[waybread]

EJ53, thanks for you response!

On a day-to-day level and in astrology, I do feel that psychological projection of one's shadow-material is very real. Astrologically, I think oppositions to one's sun will often trigger this response; as might the sign on the cusp of one's 7th house.

I had studied astrology for a while with a "poor me" reaction to my having both Saturn and Pluto broadly opposite my sun in Aquarius. They are not conjunct, but their midpoint is a close opposition to my sun. I definitely felt at different times in my life that I encountered Saturnine senior authority figures and ruthless Plutonian co-workers who set out to destroy my career. Then one day I woke up and realized that "there is nobody else out there." Pluto and Saturn are in my chart! I must embody their qualities myself. Life got a lot better after this realization. I have since tried to view such people as my teachers, as well.

Lately I realized that much of my modus vivendi is based upon greed and vanity. I just looked up their planetary rulers: Saturn and Venus. So clearly there is more inner work to be done to activate more empowering uses of Saturn and Venus in my life. Change myself? Or perhaps keep my "self" but drop the illusions of insufficiency in my life?

But I am a bit troubled by the "light and dark" metaphors, too. I have some religious convictions that stem from the Jewish and Christian traditions. (Please bear with me, dear reader, if you do not follow these traditions.) Believing in One God turns me to Genesis 1:1, in which the Creator works in darkness and chaos prior to creating our solar system. This is the Creator who is responsible for the biblical character known as Satan, and who permits "free will" to such an extent that little kids get seriously damaged by creeps who exercise it. Yet this is the same God who is simultaneously all good and all-loving. So to me, the "dark and light" metaphors for good and evil are not "black and white" but very complex!

 

[EJ53]

Hi again Waybread,

Again I find myself understanding all that you say aqnd agreeing with most of it. But, hopefully, your readers will also bear with me in regarding our "shadow" and "light" sides from a modern psychological viewpoint rather than (imo) the outdated views of religion.

For me, the shadow is nothing more than that which we dislike so much about ourselves that we suppress it and (subconsciously) live in fear of it being exposed to others. Thus, someone who is seen by their society as (say) extremely tolerant/easygoing often has a suppressed shadow personality that is extremely intolerant/harsh. And, those who fail to embrace this "dark side" of themselves usually find that it breaks through the conscious mask around the time of the Uranus half return - sometimes altering their lives adversely and forever. (I write here from personal experience of myself and many others that I've known.)

However, the truth is that no-one need fear their shadow as it is neither good nor bad - just a part of ourselves that we need to accept in order to become "complete/unified". Indeed, one person's shadow is frequently the "light side" that another person happily projects to all. But, everyone should fear the consequences awaiting them if the "darkside" breaks through the consciousness (uninvited) around the age of 42.

Because of these potential consequences, I've always tried to alert others to their shadow whenever I've encountered it - believing that I am helping rather than attacking them. Unfortunately though, others regard "saying nothing" as being more helpful - a sound example of my shadow being someone else's light side. But, the "kicker" with this is that it requires the courage to do/say things that I know others around me will regard as "bad form" or unacceptable in a well-mannered community.

Nevertheless, I live in hope that one day those who have been "victims" of my embracing of the "darkside" will understand (with hindsight) that I was acting as a true friend/servant to them at the time.

EJ

 

[Modcleopatra]

would anyone agree that changing one's self does in fact, change the world? (but maybe not The World)

also, i am invested in confronting my dark side. i just wish there were directions for it! recently though, i went through this huge transformation that made me feel like my little life bubble surrounding me POPPED, and now i'm still trying to get used to this feeling of being emotionally and spiritually "naked." INTENSE!

Anyway, this is why I love astrology, because we can talk about things like this without it being at all partial to one spiritual or scientific modality. IMO.

 

[EJ53]

would anyone agree that changing one's self does in fact, change the world?

I agree with this, Mod.

We can change only ourselves, but that changes our world - which can go some way to changing the world.

Keep confronting your darkside - with a view to "using it rather than losing it".

It is indeed good that these things can be discussed impartially around here, and without fear of being judged or shunned by anyone for doing so - I guess that's what this forum is all about.

EJ

 

[EJ53]

Radu,

The new avatar is brilliant!

The head/mercury may be essential for all communications - but the heart/sun reveals the motivation for them. (Maybe that's why the sun and mercury can never be far apart in natal charts.)

Respect.

EJ:cheers:

 

[aquarius7000]

Why yes, Radu, I have to agree with EJ there, it's an absolutely gorgeous avatar - more so as it seems to have a sort of an electric-blue heart of Aquarius (skies) in the centre Ok, ok, guess I'm getting carried away a bit.

But, I also must say that this

The head/mercury may be essential for all communications - but the heart/sun reveals the motivation for them. (Maybe that's why the sun and mercury can never be far apart in natal charts.)

is brilliantly put EJ.

aquarius7000